Down to two choices... help please

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Ok, so we went to our local Savvy Rest dealer, Mountain Air Organics. They were very helpful and we learned a lot about the specific differences in Talalay and Dunlop. We figured out that the configurations that my wife and I really like are as follows for a split Cali King:

His Hers All of these layers are dunlop for a total of 9"
M S
M M
F F

On top of this, we would have a 3" Talalay soft topper.
We will also get 2 pillows and a wool mattress protector for “free”

We were quoted a price of $3,179 minus a $200 discount for Presidents Day sale. Total for Mattress and topper alone is $2,979

I would have to buy foundation from Amazon for roughly $299

Would still need another protector pad $89.99 Protect a bed cover

On top of that we will have to pay $85 delivery, $300 tax.

Total is around $3,700

The benefits of this are that the store is a 30 min. drive away, the sales people are husband and wife and really care about what they do and how they make their customers feel. The quality of the mattress and materials are very impressive. Can go to the store if i have any issues.

On the flip side, I have talked with Greg at Mattresses.net and that was a great experience as well. He recommended the following:

6" Firm Talalay base
3" Soft for her and 3" med for him

This comes with 2 latex pillows and the Bamboo cover.

Cost of 9" base layer is $1595 plus another 3" latex topper for $289 plus the cost of the case for the topper.

$299 foundation

$89.99 mattress protector

Shipping is $160, but there is no tax.

Total is around $2,400 and a 5% discount because of this forum :slight_smile:

With the mattresses.net situation I don’t have the ability to go and try out the mattress before hand and am going into the purchase blind. However, is that worth the $1,300 difference in price? What is the difference in the quality of latex between these two companies? What would you all do?

2

Hi aRazorbackguy1,

I think you may have some misinformation about the Savvy Rest prices. The prices listed on the Mountain Air website for a 9" Dunlop latex mattress by itself in a Cal King Size are $3179 without the 3" talalay topper. With the 3" Talalay topper the price is $5079 (a jump of $1900???). I suspect that if you are looking at 12" of latex (9" of Dunlop and 3" of Talalay) then the price you are mentioning may not be correct.

If you compare the Savvy Rest mattresses to the almost identical 13000 natural mattress at SleepEz for $2900 (Same type of layering and same type of latex with 12" total latex) you will see a significant difference in price (the regular difference would be $2179 but with the $200 discount at Mountain Air would be $1979).

The SleepEz 13,000 with 3 layers of 100% natural Dunlop and blended talalay in the top layer would save you an additional $505. Blended talalay is actually more durable than natural talalay and most people could never tell the difference even though it has a lower cost.

So you could purchase a very similar mattress and also have the ability to exchange layers if you choose to (which Savvy Rest doesn’t offer) for total savings of $2484 (assuming that you purchase the same accessories). The only benefit from Savvy Rest would be the free protector (which is nice) and pillows which would probably be roughly equal the 5% discount you would get from SleepEz for being a member here. I should also mention that you don’t need two protectors and the wool one would be enough.

I used SleepEz as an example because the comparison with the Savvy Rest was almost identical.

Mattresses.net also has great value of course and the savings would be about $200 - 250 more (using the rejuvenite 3" topper with cover because the topper you mentioned was 2" so not so directly comparable and after their shipping costs) You would have a separate mattress and topper (rather than all the latex in the cover) and of course the pillows and less the 5% discount. The tradeoff would be slightly less options in terms of ability to customize the layering.

Neither of these comparisons take into account the extra tax you would pay with Savvy Rest so altogether your savings would be a minimum of $1979 + $85 shipping + $300 tax for a total of $2364. If you ended up using slightly different types of latex which would likely serve you just as well or better from either SleepEz or Mattresses.net … then your savings would be even more and could be @$3100.

While I never decide for someone else what should be part of their personal value equation, I know for sure that if I had the same choices that the greater after sale flexibility and exchange both of the members here offer and the VERY significant price differences between them and Savvy Rest, I personally wouldn’t even have to think about which direction I would go.

So overall, only you can make the choice but I thought I should at least clarify that the differences are probably even more than you were thinking unless the prices on the Mountain Air website are significantly wrong.

Phoenix

3

Phoenix, as always thanks for your time!

We have a written quote/proposal from Mountain Air that is the Organic Serenity P.T. 4 Layer bed for $3,179 - $200.

If this is truly the case and not a typo, then does this become a much better deal for the Savvy? 12" for $2979 and all of the promotional stuff?

4

Hi ARazorbackguy1,

OK … this is a little strange. There are two Mountain Air Organics websites in Fayetteville (same address) and they each have different prices for the model with 12" of latex.

The one where I got my numbers is here http://mountainairorganics.com/

The other one which has a price which is $350 less (and matches the Savvy Rest website) is http://mountainairorganicbeds.com

EDIT ADDED: They now go to the same site

Assuming that the lower one is correct … you can take $350 off my numbers.

I should also mention here that we are looking at some options which have different materials which affects the pricing comparisons between them.

Savvy Rest gets their Dunlop latex from CoCo latex and it is organic. This means that it is 100% natural Dunlop which has gone through the organic certification process. This doesn’t mean that it is necessarily any different from 100% natural Dunlop … only that it has been certified. Their talalay is not organic (there is no organic talalay) but it is 100% natural. Latex Green also has Organic Dunlop.

If you were to use Latex Green organic Dunlop in the SleepEz natural 13000 (which they can provide on request) the materials would be close to the same as the Savvy Rest.

Mattresses.net also has the organic Latex Green (which is much more) but the mattress you are comparing doesn’t use it (I believe the mattress you are comparing is the Blended Talalay adjustable ultra plush with an extra inch on top?).

The advantage of the Savvy Rest is that you are getting organic Dunlop. For those who are willing to pay significantly more for “organic” instead of 100% natural regardless of any actual difference … the difference in price may be worth it.

100% natural Dunlop is less expensive even though it would be identical in performance but Savvy Rest doesn’t offer this.

100% natural Talalay is the most expensive version of talalay.

Blended talalay is lower cost than 100% natural talalay (and similar to 100% natural Dunlop) even though the natural is less durable when used in lower ILD’s that are typical for comfort layers.

So … apples to apples … the sleepez 13000 natural would be the most comparable to the Savvy Rest and if your Savvy Rest quote was correct (which I really doubt), then the Mountain Air Savvy Rest would be only $464 more than the SleepEz after shipping and tax and you would get the extra wool protector. This would put the Savvy Rest “in the ballpark” and I would consider it (assuming again that your quote is correct) because the difference was less than about 20% or so and I would get the wool mattress protector.

I personally wouldn’t go in this direction at all however because I don’t believe that organic Dunlop is worth the premium over the 100% natural Dunlop. While others may not share this view … the 100% natural Dunlop is just as “pure” as the organic in my eyes … the only difference being that it’s purity hasn’t been “recognized” with a certificate.

This means that if I was to use Dunlop (and I personally prefer talalay) then I would be going in the direction of the SleepEz 13000 which used any combination of natural Dunlop or Blended Talalay layers that I wanted or the similar version at mattresses.net which also uses blended talalay. In this case I would still be saving almost $1000 with SleepEz and even more with mattresses.net (with the same tradeoff in the ability to customize between the two as I mentioned before) and the only thing I would be receiving extra from Savvy Rest would be the wool protector. This degree of difference (over 40%) wouldn’t be worth it to me even if your quote was right.

In the end of course … it’s up to what you consider to be most important and these are only my personal versions of the “value equation” that I would choose. It’s no better or worse than anyone elses :slight_smile:

Phoenix

PS: If your quote is right then Mountain Air may end up doing some “extra” business because they would be the least expensive Serenity Pillowtop by far out of all the Savvy Rest outlets.

5

Can you point me to the post where you talk about why you choose Talalay over Dunlop?

6

Hi ARazorbackguy1,

I don’t think that I’ve ever made a separate post about it but I’ve mentioned it in passing from time to time.

For me it has nothing to do with one being “better” than another but simply that I like the liveliness/springiness and overall feel of talalay. Dunlop to me feels a little bit more “dead”. I also like to be a little more in the mattress although not to the degree of memory foam. If I did use Dunlop it would definitely be in the support layers and not in the comfort layers but even in the support layers I prefer the feel of Talalay (my own mattress is all Talalay).

There are lots of other people whose preferences are very different from mine and there are some who prefer the feel of Dunlop in every layer … I’m just not one of them :slight_smile:

Phoenix

7

Phoenix,

I should never question you again when it comes to all things mattresses. You were absolutely right about the Savvy rest. We went back this morning and found which layers we liked. The sales lady came up and said “I mis-quoted you on Saturday!”. An then told us about the much higher price with the pillow top.

We are now looking at the SleepEZ 13000 as we believe this will fit our needs perfectly. We haven’t talked with them yet, but we really like the idea of multiple layering and the return policy is pretty awesome.

One of the things I liked about savvy rest was the great mattress cover, but from the reviews it sounds like EZ has a great cover as well. Have you seen their cover? How does it compare?

8

Really what I would do is look up some great information online. I’m not sure how much research you’ve done. However, I did find this site for you to check out if you haven’t already. www.latexmattress.org is a resource for information you are requesting. Let us know what you find.

9

Hi ARazorbackguy1,

I haven’t seen either cover personally so from that point of view I can’t make a direct comparison.

I can tell you however that SleepEz has 3 different covers which are listed on this page. The two that are quilted both use wool and cotton but the difference is that the organic version uses organic materials and is more expensive. They also have an unquilted cover without wool and you can see a picture of it in post #76 here (the pictures on their site aren’t quite accurate but they haven’t changed them yet). The color of the unquilted cover in the linked post is actually off white not the darker color in the picture (the lighting was probably off).

To make an “exact” comparison … you would need to know the exact amount of wool in oz/sq yd for each (organic wool is expensive) but because they both use enough wool to pass the fire code … I would say the sleepez organic cover and the savvy rest are very comparable. The Savvy Rest pillowtop does have a separate cover around the topper (which would increase the material cost) while the SleepEz has all the layers inside a single cover.

Phoenix

10

After many hours of research on this subject, we have finally come to a decision. We have decided on the Cali King SleepEZ 13000 with Dunlop on the bottom 3" layer and blended talalay for the rest of the mattress. Different ild’s for his and hers.

We feel that this was the best choice based on a few things.

Return policy is awesome
Free Shipping
Ability to build the bed by layering, options to change them around if need to.
One Free exchange - minus shipping one way
Customer service

This was probably one of the tougher decisions my wife and i have had to make and we feel like we made a great choice. With that said, we couldn’t have made this choice without this website. The information here is second to none, and what else can you say about Phoenix, other than WOW!

Thanks again for everything! I will report back after we get the bed and provide pictures and all :slight_smile:

11

Hi michellegordonsleep,

That’s a somewhat bizarre post when you consider the “online” information available at the very site you’re on. It’s also strange when the site you linked to is no more than another one of the many many so called “expert” sites who publish information that is based on pseudo facts and biased or misleading information and is not so much about accuracy or completeness but about promoting a specific product that just “happens” to use all the so called “best” materials that are mentioned on the site. At least your “expert” site is a little more obvious that it is an advertising site for Plushbeds.

It also seems to me that you also haven’t even read the thread that you posted in or you would be well aware of the amount of research the poster you were replying to had done.

Normally I would just delete commercial spam of this type as being what the rules of the site call “blatant self promotion”. Earlier in this thread though I did a comparison between Savvy Rest and another member here who made an almost identical mattress so keeping to the theme of the thread I may as well do an analysis and comparison using an almost identical mattress with Plushbeds as well since there already have been and I’m sure will be others who ask about Plushbeds on the forum. The comparison is based on queen size mattress only.

If you go here … you will see that Arizona Premium Mattress (AKA mattresses.net) also makes mattress which use 6" plus 2" of high quality latex

Their basic model is most comparable to your 8" model but they also have an upgrade which uses more costly materials (all 100% natural Talalay and an upgraded cover) and I’ll use their more expensive upgrade for the comparison (even though their material cost is greater).

Of course if a customer chose to they could use the less expensive 6" 100% natural Dunlop base layer like the Plushbeds uses as well.

Plushbeds offers 4 different ILD choices in the 2" comfort layer.
Arizona Premium offers the same (on request) in their comfort layer but also allows a choice of firmness in the 6" support layer.

Arizona Premium offers a “side by side split” while the same is not listed on Plushbeds as an option.

Plushbeds offers a 100 day comfort layer exchange after purchase for a flat $45 shipping cost.
Arizona Premium offers a 60 day exchange for any layer for actual shipping costs.

Plushbeds offers a 100 day refund less shipping (return shipping is a flat $99 fee)
Arizona premium offers a 60 day refund less shipping (at actual cost)

The “sale” price for Plushbeds is $1799.
The “everyday” price for Arizona Premium is $1395 plus UPS shipping (in the range of $150 depending on area).

The final outcome? …

Plushbeds offers slightly longer and lower cost refund and exchange privileges than Arizona Premium.

Arizona Premium uses more costly materials (in their upgrade) and has much greater ability to customize both before and after the sale than Plushbeds.

Arizona Premium is @$250 less than Plushbeds and if the lower cost and still very comparable mattress is used then the difference becomes @ $450. The differences between other comparable comparable models that use thicker comfort layers is even more. That’s about 15% - 25% less in the lowest models based on the sale price of a queen at Plushbeds.

None of this of course includes the additional 5% discount (in this case at least $60 for the lower cost more comparable mattress) that the manufacturing members here offer to anyone who has posted in the forum.

I realize that Plushbeds offers good quality and value compared to more mainstream outlets or even many other online outlets … the manufacturing members of this site offer some of the best value in all of North America and IMO are truly among the “best of the best” in terms of quality, service, and value.

So while I’m not a great fan of businesses who use this forum simply for self promotion … I do appreciate the chance to do another comparative analysis and review :).

Phoenix

12

Hi ARazorbackguy1,

I think you did great research and made some great choices. Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’d love to hear your feedback when the mattress arrives and you’ve had a chance to sleep on it for a few days.

Thanks too for the kind comments … I appreciate them.

Phoenix

13

[quote=“Phoenix” post=2903]
If I did use Dunlop it would definitely be in the support layers and not in the comfort layers but even in the support layers I prefer the feel of Talalay (my own mattress is all Talalay).

Phoenix[/quote]

Curious if you go firm or extra firm in the Talalay support layer. For the comfort layer, I’ll probably go with 2" medium (26 ILD) Talalay, but not really sure about firmness of a Talalay base.

14

Hi pvanheuklom,

My own mattress uses a softer support layer than most people would be comfortable with or do well with (it’s 28 ILD). This is because I’m tall and slim and tend to sink into a mattress more evenly than most people and I also like the feeling of sinking in more. I designed it for both myself and more importantly my DH based on a great deal of local testing on many different mattresses and combinations of materials. It also has firmer latex in the quilting layer to modify the feel of the softer latex below it so it’s not a “typical” design.

It’s also two sided and the 3" comfort layers on each side are in the soft range (22 ILD).

For most people … unless their specific testing indicated otherwise … a support layer that was firmer would be much less risky but the firmness of the layers are not a part of the “quality” of a mattress … only its suitability for the needs and preferences of a particular person and one person … even with a similar body type and .sleeping position … can be very different from someone else.

There are no simple answers or any “formula” to determine what is “best” for any particular person because every layer and component interacts with every other layer of a mattress and ILD, firmness, compression modulus, layer thickness, the type of cover and the quilting, and many other factors (including the person themselves) can all affect the choice of layering and what may be “best” for any particular person.

Phoenix

15

HI Phoenix, I have more than 2 choices and hope to get your feedback as soon as possible as we need to buy one quickly. I posted in another place but see that you have not been on that thread for a while so forgive me to post here again:

I have been having serious back pain problems in the last few months with my memory foam mattress from Costco bought at least 5 years ago, but I have no problems sleeping on my old futon in guest room. After some research I am looking at mattress mattress replacement options within $1500 or so:

Option A:
Buy a extra firm good old inner spring mattress, add a 3" latex topper

Option B:
Buy 8" Dunlop Latex Mattress Queen on sale for $1,245.00 at SleepEZ

Option C:
Buy Natura Eco Rest Natural Latex Organic Mattress 8" Latex/wool for $900 at a local store

Option D:
Rent a truck and drive 200 miles to buy the 10" Latex Mattress Rogue at Parklane in Oregon for $1525.

I would love to get your advice on my choices and thank you.

16

Hi hubbs,

I normally reply to posts in the order they are posted (in most but not all cases because it also depends on the complexity of the answer) but it would be very rare that it took longer than a day for me to reply (and usually much less). In many cases I don’t even read the later posts before I reply to the earlier ones (just to reduce any temptation to reply to them preferentially).

In any case … I think my reply here to your earlier post will be helpful … and if you have more questions that I didn’t cover I hope you feel free to post them here as well :slight_smile:

Phoenix

17

Finally ordered today from Arizona Mattress. Before I did, I was able to test a single-layer 6" blended talalay latex mattress (with Bamboo cover) at a local Lebeda store. The ILD was 28, which was really nice and soft but a bit too cushy for my taste. At least it gave me a reference point before talking to Ken at Arizona Mattress.

Based on my weight (190 lbs.) and being a side sleeper, Ken recommended the soft (ILD 22) comfort layer on top of a medium (ILD 32) base. The firmer base supporting a 2" soft layer of latex should give me more support than the 6" medium layer by itself. Seems a bit counter-intuitive, but makes sense. An even firmer base (ILD 42), he thought, would be too firm. Both layers of the new mattress will be blended latex, as they should be a bit more durable and I didn’t see a real need to pay more for all natural.

Ken let me know they are swamped and I’d have to wait about 4 weeks, but I’m good with that. After sleeping on a sagging futon mattress for the last three years, what’s another month? Besides, I figure being busy is a testament to their quality and success. I’m greatly looking forward to the new mattress … even ordered a St. Dormeir mattress protector from Flobeds.

Thanks, Phoenix, for all the help. I’ll be sure to post again when I receive it.

Paul

18

Hi pvanheuklom,

There are many things about mattress layering that can be very counterintuitive but it’s great when you are talking to an “expert” and you don’t have to learn or “figure out” what they already know.

Congratulations on your new mattress … and I’m looking forward to your feedback in a few weeks when you’ve had the chance to sleep on it.

Phoenix

19

Hello, I was wondering if you could post an update about how you like the mattress you purchased and how it is doing about a year and a half later?
Thanks!