latex toppers for lightweight, curvy people

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi Phoenix,

Using your guidelines of “Lighter weights will need softer and thinner comfort layers” and “Curvier body profiles will need thicker and softer comfort layers,” I’m wondering what lighter-weight but somewhat curvy people need. Softer + medium-thickness comfort layers?

I’ll back up to give some background info, and then come back to that question.

I found & read a bunch of your posts on the “what’s the best” forum, and just today stumbled onto this site. The info you provide here is sorely needed. (Literally, sorely!) :slight_smile: So, thank you for all your research.

Here’s the current setup:
Two-year-old 9" high, old-fashioned, two-sided (flippable), firm innerspring mattress (full size), on a wooden foundation; both still in very good shape.

I’ve been fiddling with latex toppers for pressure relief. (Stats: 50-year-old woman, about 5’6", 120-125 pounds; side and back sleeper, but mostly side. I’m a lightweight, but with enough curves – broad shoulders, wide hips – to make getting the right comfort layers difficult.)

I have a 1" 24ILD Talatech topper, 2 years old (from SleepLikeaBear, a.k.a. SLAB), which I bottom out on. When it’s folded over, to 2", I still bottom out.

Because of the bottoming out, I thought I needed more firmness, so I recently bought a 2" 32ILD topper – but that isn’t working, so it’s going back to SLAB. A 1" N3 (25-29ILD) topper is on its way to me, to put under the 1" of 24ILD.

I think I’m also going to need an inch or two of something soft – around 19 ILD – on top of the 24 ILD. (Looks like I’m going for the differential method of layering, but we’ll see.) ((<-- oops; I think I meant to say “progressive” there, not “differential.”))

It’s counter-intuitive to go softer, when my bony hips & joints are going through 2" of 24ILD latex, but I think that’s part of what is needed here. The 24ILD topper doesn’t quite have the resilience or point elasticity to give me support & alignment in the lumbar area, so I’m wondering if an inch or two of 19ILD would do that, while the 24ILD and the N3 (say, 27ILD) pieces below would stop the hips from sinking in too far. (Hips sinking in too far = significant lower back pain in the morning for me.)

So, I’m curious whether I’m applying your guidelines logically, and wondering what you’d advise for us lightweight types who are bony & curvy at the same time. :unsure: (Besides gaining weight to be less bony, that is; I’m workin’ on that.)

Thanks so much.
-Catherine

2

Hi Catherine … and welcome :slight_smile:

I’m glad you found the site. I’ve been reading a bit about your saga at What’s the best mattress forums but unfortunately was not able to answer you (or others) since I haven’t been allowed to post there for many months.

You are very similar in height and weight to my other half (she’s slightly taller and slightly heavier with the same overall shape) who is also very sensitive to pressure issues so hopefully that will help me to help you.

In our own mattress testing … we discovered that 24 ILD was right on the edge of “too firm” for both of us … but particularly for her. We settled on 3" of 22 ILD (approx) which was as high as either of us would have gone. We probably could easily have used 19 except for the fact that our mattress also included a layer of quiltable latex and a down substitute in the quilting. We also have a “softer than normal” core which is 28 ILD. The reason that we knew this would work for us is because of our testing and because both of us are rather evenly distributed (I’m 6.5" and about 195 so tall and slim).

When you are adding a topper to a current mattress … its important to know the comfort layers and quilting of the mattress that it’s going on top of as well as the type of innerspring as this can greatly influence the performance of the topper itself. There are a lot of “firm” or even “ultra firm” mattresses out there that have several inches of very soft polyfoam over the very firm innerspring and the reason it feels so firm is that people will go right through the foam in the comfort layer and feel the firmness of the innerspring underneath.

So it would help to know the makeup of the mattress this was going on.

In our own mattress testing … there was a clear difference between how 2" felt and how 3" felt. We both could feel the firmer foam underneath 2" of soft latex while with 3" and a lower ILD of support under it … the “transition” was much better. Even 3 one inch layers of soft (19) talalay (which we tested in one mattress) was too thin for us as individual layers are functionally “softer/thinner” than a single layer … even if the ILDs are the same. This is part of the problem with a common recommendation to go 1" at a time in building a comfort layer.

So overall … I would have added more thickness rather than more firmness as a curvy side sleeper typically needs about 3+" of soft latex. I am also guessing that any polyfoam or fiber that was on top of your mattress would be well compressed and act as a firm layer underneath. We also had a 2 sided mattress with polyfoam on top which is still in use over 12 years later. The foam on top is still even because it was flipped but it is not nearly as soft as it used to be.

So overall … I would suggest that an additional inch of 19 ILD as you are thinking would likely work. Comfort layers which are the correct softness and thickness have relatively little effect on how “relatively” far the hips sink in as it is the layers under that which are primarily responsible for spinal alignment (although a comfort layer that is so thick that it functions as part of your support layer can cause an issue with alignment and can play a secondary role here). You need to sink in far enough to form a good cradle and fill in the gaps under your lumbar and then the layers under this are primarily the “alignment” layers. As you mentioned … this would be a “differential” construction. Because of your lighter weight … even a 14 ILD comfort layer may have worked.

If there is an outlet that carries Pure Latex Bliss near you … The Nature (without a topper) has 2" of 19 ILD over 1" of 28 ILD over a 36 ILD core (all talalay). I suspect that this would have a similar problem to what you are facing now (only 2" of soft latex over 1" of medium over a firm core) and you may feel the thin firmer 28 ILD layer. The Pamper has 1" of 19 ILD talalay over a 40 ILD core and if you added the 2" topper over this (14 ILD) I am guessing it would be close. They also have a 3" topper (also 14 ILD) which you could use on top of the Pamper for comparison. These may help you “zone in” on what would work best for you.

So it seems to me that …like my SO … you likely need a minimum 3" comfort layer over a firmer support layer to get the right combination of pressure relief and alignment.

If you let me know more details about your mattress … it may make some difference in what I am suggesting.

Thanks again for “finding us” and for your questions. If you have more … feel free to post them

Phoenix

3

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks much for the response (that was quick!). I can’t remember what model of mattress I bought, and can’t find the paperwork, so I’ll call the vendor tomorrow and ask if they have a record of my purchase. (I bought the mattress & foundation 2 years ago from a local independent manufacturer; family-owned business.) I’ll come back and let you know what I find out.

The padding – and the mattress itself – is pretty minimal. I can feel the support from the springs if I don’t have too much topper stuff on top. (With the 2" of 32 ILD on the bottom of the latex topper stack, I didn’t even feel the bed.) It’s clear to me now that I need a few inches of cushion for pressure relief & to prevent my arms from falling asleep; I just couldn’t figure out how to get the right kind of cushioning.

I might be willing to spring for a 2" piece of 19 ILD if I can find a good price; but latex prices are shooting sky-high lately, so that’s a problem. BrylaneHome.com is selling latex toppers (1.5" thick) on Clearance, but they don’t know whether it’s Talalay or Dunlop processed, and they don’t know the ILD. I’ve emailed and asked if they can find out from the manufacturer. (I’m always surprised when companies don’t know the specs of what they’re selling.)

4

Hi Catherine,

Based on the look and price … I would guess that it was Dunlop but it is hard to tell for certain. I am always very leery about purchasing “unknown” foam as it is almost impossible to know how to fit it into a “correct” layering scheme and it often causes more frustration than it is worth. I also am amazed sometimes at how little some outlets know about what they are selling. Even worse IMO is some of the “deep discount” outlets that represent their latex as being a certain type or ILD when I am certain it is not. I have seen this too (in the other forum) cause real confusion in trying to create a suitable layering scheme.

I am suspecting that the 1" N3 you have on the way may also be on the firm side and will still leave you too thin. If you can return it … then you could purchase 2" of NR Talalay for about the same or 2" blended talalay for less than SLAB charges for the 1" N3. Talalay & Dunlop Latex Toppers - Bare, Latex Mattress Toppers and Cores, All Products,

If this worked … all you would need is a cover. I think if you have a chance to test the PLB (or another brand with a 3" talalay latex comfort layer with a known ILD such as Jamison)… you would have a very clear idea of what would work.

Shawn at Sleepez might also have 2" of talatech in 19 ILD even though its not listed on his site.

Phoenix

5

Yah; I learned that the hard way, with the Overstock topper. (A Brylane rep says they can’t contact the manufacturer to find out what exactly they’re selling.)

I stopped by the store where I bought my mattress. Still not sure of the exact model (they may have changed slightly in the past 2 years), but I found some of my own notes from when I bought it: “extra firm, flippable innerspring mattress (660 Lura-flex coils, 14.5 gauge, with extra layers of the Novabond fiber mats that go directly over the coils); 3/4” of 1.5 lb foam, flat." So, something similar to the current models called Pillow Rest Firm Chiropractic, Elegant Firm Chiropractic, or Dynasty Super Firm, made & sold by Jamestown Mattress (small family-owned business in upstate NY).

While I was there today, I lay on their latex beds to see how they feel. One of them, with several inches of really soft latex (14-17 ILD) was quite cushy. (Not sure of the exact specs on the latex layers; it might have been the Heavenly Cloud Soft Latex model.)

They can sell me a 2" 14-17ILD Talalay topper for $159 (plus tax), or a 3" topper for $238. (Who knew?) The Jamestown people will cut the latex at the factory and truck it to the store with their regular store deliveries, and I can pick it up there.

Haven’t decided on 2" or 3" but I’m leaning toward the 2" – to save money, and because it’ll go on top of the 1" 24 ILD piece (which I go right through), with the 1" N3 piece under that (I’m still worried about sinking in too far). Seems like that should do it.

I have to go out in that direction tonight or tomorrow anyway – to ship back the 32 ILD piece – so I’ll stop in at the store and place the order for the topper then.

-Catherine

Edited to add: If the 2" of soft latex isn’t enough (on top of the other latex), I can use my 1" thick polyfill pad – it’s either a thin fiberbed or a really thick mattress pad :lol: – and that’ll give some extra cushion in the shoulders. (It’s a tad flattened in the hip area, 'cause it’s several years old, but the rest of it is just fine.)

6

Hi Catherine,

I like Jamestown mattress and have talked with them on several occasions. They are a local independent factory direct manufacturer that is owned and run by a father and son with the same first name (Jim) which makes it confusing sometimes to remember who you talked with on the phone :slight_smile:

They are good people (what I call mattress people) and are high quality and high value manufacturers. I listed them several times in the “other forum” as a great source for mattresses in the NY area.

It is also a great idea to look at local factory direct outlets since they will often supply toppers with great value even if they don’t specifically list them on their site.

I’m glad you found them … problem solved.

It sounds like your mattress has negligible soft foam on top and the little that is there is likely compressed so I would treat is as if it was actually firm without any soft polyfoam under your latex topper.

One last comment is that a fiber or polyfill pad may actually reduce pressure relief on top of latex … especially as it compresses … as it will reduce the ability of the soft latex to conform to your body (it is not nearly as “point elastic” as latex and has no resiliency). In some cases (because it will prevent you from sinking down as deeply into the latex) it may help as it may stop you from “going through” the latex and feeling the pressure of a much firmer layer underneath. With 2" of latex though on top of what you have it is likely that this will be enough.

The heavenly cloud soft latex has 2" of 14 ILD talalay over softer Dunlop (24-27 ILD) which would increase the effective thickness of the comfort layer and then get firmer faster (as Dunlop is good for) with deeper compression. This would be the “progressive” equivalent to your more “differential” approach with 3" of Talalay over a firmer support layer.

Way to go! :slight_smile:

Phoenix

7

I just wish I’d thought to do that a lot sooner. D’oh!
More and more, I wonder where my brain has gone… :blink:

Did not know that; thanks. I might consider using a wool mattress pad, like the Dormeir (or maybe just a wool blanket) at some point, for temperature regulation, but for now, I think I need to stop spending money.

I’ll come back & follow up after the new toppers are in place.
Thanks again for all the information you provide. Really great research, very much needed.

-Catherine

8

Hi Catherine,

Thanks for your comments … and I’m looking forward to hearing about how your new topper works for you. :slight_smile:

Phoenix

9

Hi Phoenix,

Getting closer, so here’s a partial follow-up (I don’t have the 1" N3 piece yet; not sure when it’s arriving).

I’ve had the 2" 14-17 ILD Talalay topper (on top of the 1" 24 ILD topper) for a couple of nights now.

First night: I had the 1" fiberbed and my mattress pad on top of all that, and I woke up in the morning with some lower back pain.

Second night: I took off the mattress pad, because it’s a typical cotton-covered polyfill thing (compressed in the hip area) and is the least stretchy or giving material. Left the fiberbed on, for now, because it has some give to it and I need to protect the latex toppers. That was more comfortable.

So… having just said that I was done spending money on this endeavor… I’m contemplating one more big expense, and that would be the St. Dormeir wool mattress pad. (I’d take the fiberbed off the stack of toppers.) I keep reading good things about it from people who have it; it’s supposed to be quite stretchy (so the soft latex would be able to do its conforming thing); and the temperature-regulating properties of wool would be helpful this winter.

I hate to spend that kind of dough on something that I haven’t seen and that isn’t returnable, but I haven’t come across very many posts from people who don’t like it. So it might be a risk worth taking. I’m gonna ponder that for a bit, and see how the current setup sleeps in the meantime.

By the way, when I picked up the soft topper at the mattress store, I looked to see which latex bed I had been lying on. It was the Heavenly Cloud, and I believe it was the EuroTop.

10

Hi Catherine,

I can certainly understand why you liked the Heavenly Cloud. It has 2" of 14 ILD blended talalay over 3" of 16 - 19 ILD natural talalay (N1) over a firmer dunlop core. While this may be a little too much soft latex on top for the best alignment, your lower weight and curvier profile in combination with the supportive nature of latex itself even in softer ILD’s could well mean that even this thick could work OK … even though I suspect that it would be a little too thick for your back sleeping.

This also implies though that the N3 you have on order may be too firm for you (it averages out at about 27 ILD) in the upper comfort layers but could make a good transition layer under the 24 ILD layer.

Let me know how it goes … and I would hold off on the dormeir until you have had a chance to test the layering with your new N3 piece. Your feedback on this will likely be the last step to knowing what you need and then the choice between the Dormeir or a thinner breathable protector without wool can take into account how each would affect the comfort layer.

I think the dormeir is among the best of the wool protectors. I also like the Natura here which I bought when it was on sale at Costco. It is slightly thinner than the dormeir (which is also quite thin an stretchy and affects the latex less than thicker wool) and has a waterproof/breathable membrane.

Phoenix

11

Holding off on the Dormeir makes sense. Do you have a particular kind of “thinner breathable protector” in mind? Standard mattress pads all seem to be polyfill with cotton covers, unless I’m missing something that’s right in front of me in the stores. (Wouldn’t be the first time.)

I think that someone in the other forum mentioned using a jersey sheet as a mattress pad, because it’s stretchy. There’s also the FoamByMail terry-cloth topper cover.

12

Hi Catherine,

If it turns out you want a breathable protector with wool … I would choose between the Natura (which I linked to in the last post) and the dormeir. I liked the Natura personally because it had slightly less wool, was washable, and had the breathable/waterproof membrane but they are both great. Wool without the membrane is water resistant but not waterproof. There are some other Natura mattress protectors with wool that are thicker but I preferred the thinner one. This is it on the Natura site even though this is not the best price.

If you decide on a protector without the wool for the sake of having a thinner protector that will not reduce the response of the latex as much … then I like the type with a thin waterproof/breathable membrane attached to a thin stretchy cotton or blend. There are quite a few of these and they are widely available everywhere (the ones that the stores put over a glass of water and then turn upside down to show they are waterproof). Some examples are …

http://www.protectabed.com/Elite_Mattress_Protector_-_KING/product.htm?pid=642913&catid=30610 This one has fabric (cotton terry) on both sides and the waterproof/membrane in the middle of the fabric.
http://www.protectabed.com/Premium_Mattress_Protector_-_KING/product.htm?pid=643047&catid=30608 Same except fabric on one side only
http://www.protectabed.com/Plush_Mattress_Protector_-_FULL_XL/product.htm?pid=643072&catid=30609 Premium with velour instead of terry
http://www.protectabed.com/Basic_Mattress_Protector_-_QUEEN/product.htm?pid=642855&catid=32604 Same except uses polyester fabric

http://www.lunamattress.com/Luna-Waterproof-Mattress-Protectors_p_3.html Different company … similar idea

There are many other brands that are similar.

Of course the ultimate breathability would be something like a cotton terry protector but this would allow moisture onto the mattress and not be nearly as protective.

None of these would be enough to protect bare latex from ozone or ultraviolet light so its also important to make sure that the latex toppers themselves are covered with an appropriate fabric cover (either inside a mattress zip cover or inside their own protective fabric). The FBM cover could work for protecting the topper from ozone/ultraviolet (depending on its quality) but some degree of protection from moisture would still be important (as in the mattress protectors I mentioned earlier in this post).

I would avoid most of the polyfill type of mattress pads or fiberpads as they compress too easily.

Hope this helps

Phoenix

13

That’s quite a list of mattress pads; thanks, Phoenix.

The Dormeir protector is washable, too. I’m leaning more toward something with just wool (or wool & cotton), like the Dormeir. My limited experience with materials with waterproof breathable membranes (in sports clothing) is that they tend to be either waterproof or breathable, but not both; and breathable is more important to me.

I have ordered the FBM terry-cloth cover for the toppers. Those covers have gotten some good reviews.

I’ll update again when I have all the pieces in place. Thanks again for your help.

If I hadn’t found your posts on the other forum, I probably would never have figured out that I needed softer foam as the top topper, even though I was bottoming out on the 24ILD piece. It’s so counter-intuitive.

If I now can’t get out of bed in the morning, 'cause I’m all comfy, it’ll be all your fault. :lol:

14

I’ll gladly take the “blame”

Phoenix

15

Hi Phoenix,

Thought I had this topper thing figured out – and I’m closer than I was – but apparently I’m not quite there yet.

I have now, from top to bottom:

  • the 2" very soft (14 to 17 ILD) Talalay topper from Jamestown Mattress,
  • the 1" 24 ILD topper from SLAB, and
  • the 1" N3 (25 to 29 ILD) topper from SLAB.

The top 3" are in the terry-cloth cover from FBM. I tried putting the bottom piece in, but the terry cloth looked like it was stretching too much around the zipper, and I didn’t want to risk pulling the thing apart or reducing the stretchiness on top, so that bottom topper is just covered with an ancient sheet to protect it from the nubbies on the bottom of the FBM cover. (That cover just comes in 3" and 8" depths.)

Unfortunately, when I’m lying directly on the topper stack, with no mattress pad, I find that even with the 2" of the really soft latex, and the 1" of 24, which also is fairly soft, there is still not quite enough cushion for my shoulders. I’m very surprised.

The N3 piece feels quite resilient, and I believe it’s helping my hips. The problem just seems to be those annoying bony shoulders… :frowning:

I think I will need to either mess around with zoning, or add an inch of memory foam to the stack. (Or just get another cheap polyfill fiberbed for the very top, knowing that I’ll have to replace it when it compresses.)

Maybe I should have gotten 3" of the super-soft stuff instead of 2", but I am astonished that I seem to need that much cushioning. I got along for years without it.

Puzzled…
-Catherine

16

Hi Catherine,

I suspected that the N3 may be a little too firm … even though your overall comfort layer is probably thick enough. This to some degree was confirmed with your experience on the Heavenly cloud.

Here is what I think is happening. Your shoulder area is much lighter than your hip area (which is where over half the body weight is concentrated). The part of your shoulders from the outer edge of the torso (the inside of the shoulder) to the outer edge of the shoulders however also has less surface area than the hips so the lower weight is more “concentrated” and this is the part that needs to sink in enough. Once the sinking in reaches the torso (ribcage) … then the surface area becomes much larger and the sinking in effectively stops as pressure is shifted to the torso. With lighter weights especially … the “narrow” part of the shoulders while side sleeping needs both a thick enough and soft enough comfort layer that the outer part of the shoulders themselves or the joint is not bearing too much weight. They need to sink in far enough so that the torso becomes a little more weight bearing and relieves the pressure there.

This is not an exact science of course because slight differences in shoulder position can make a difference in the shoulder area/weight ratio and distribution but if you measure the distance from the inside of the shoulder joint (where the torso joins the shoulder) to the outside of the shoulder … you will see the “rough distance” the thinner part of the shoulder area needs to sink in when you are on your side and the torso begins to bear weight and relieve the pressure on the shoulders (bear in mind this measurement is an indication not a “rule”).

Because of your lower weight and wider shoulders … I believe that you may need softer latex on top even though the width itself (4") is likely OK. Because the N3 latex is getting close to support or middle layer ILD levels (there is only 2" of really soft latex) and is above the normal ILD that would be used for the comfort layer … and because even the 24 ILD may even be a little on the firm side for many people … in combination with your broader shoulders and lower weight … the overall comfort layer may not be allowing enough weight to be “shifted” onto your torso enough and relieving enough pressure on your shoulder area.

One thing you can try before making any exchanges which may work is to put the N3 on top of the other layers. Because it is thin and more elastic than the other layers being all natural … this may lead to your shoulders “going through” it easily enough to effectively soften the next 3 inches and relieve the pressure on your shoulders. This is because it may change the “order of compression” of the layers as the top layer tends to compress more and “first”. It may also help to “keep your hips up” without creating too much pressure there which may also help overall alignment.

If this “experiment” doesn’t work, then I would first take a look at how this change affected you and then make decisions about whether to return the N3 and replace it with a softer version (more like the Heavenly cloud which you liked).

So it “makes sense” to me and “points to” a likely solution :slight_smile:

Phoenix

PS: for the long term … I would make sure that all the latex is covered rather than just “wrapped” by sheets as exposure to air can dramatically reduce the life of latex … especially natural.

17

Thanks for the analysis, Phoenix. I guess I consider the 24ILD to be fairly soft, too, because I bottom out on it (at least when it’s 1" thick), so that is why I thought I finally had enough soft stuff overall.

Interesting. I might give that a shot (though not tonight, 'cause I’ve already remade the bed, with the thick polyfill thingie on top).

Will do; thanks again.

18

Hi Catherine,

You probably do have enough “soft stuff” overall in terms of thickness … but the reason you would have “bottomed out” on the 24 ILD was more about layer thickness than how soft it was. You would probably “bottom out” on 28 - 32 ILD or even higher as well if there was only 2" of it. For you (lower weight broader shoulders) … 24 may not “qualify” as soft stuff and 27 is more in the lower end of the “support” or “transition” range (which would be under your comfort layer rather than part of it).

Once you have the comfort layer thickness right (thick enough for the thinner part of your shoulders to sink in to the torso) then the “composite” ILD of the whole layer also needs to be soft enough to let them sink in enough. The lighter the weight … the more a higher ILD will stop them from sinking in enough … even if the layer is the correct thickness. One of the things that is often misunderstood is the relationship between layer thickness, ILD, and progressive resistance (also called sag factor, comfort factor, or compression modulus) … which is part of why it can seem so counterintuitive to many people.

It would be interesting to measure the distance from the inside of your shoulder joint (you can feel it with your thumb) to the outside of your shoulder to see what it is.

Phoenix

19

Hi Phoenix,

If it matters: I do bottom out on 2" of 24 ILD (that’s the 1" piece folded in half; probably not quite the same effect as 2" of solid 24 ILD, but close enough, I’d think); but I did not bottom out on 2" of 32 ILD (that was the 2" Talatech piece that I got from SLAB and then returned because it was too firm to conform enough to give lumbar support).

About 3.5 inches.

I tried putting the N3 on top of the stack, and it didn’t feel any different. (I didn’t try it overnight; just did a quick folding-over experiment because moving these things around is a pain in the a** and I’m worried about ripping them.)

I really think I’m going to need to do some zoning, with something soft under the shoulders and something firmer under the hips to prevent my hips from sinking down too far. My hips seem to like the current layer stack, but when the hips sink down, they pull everything else along with them, and that adds to the shoulder-crunching effect.

Don’t know if I’m explaining that very well, but it seems pretty evident to me when I’m lying on my side on the topper stack. I might have to experiment a bit. Putting one more inch of soft stuff under the shoulders and one more inch of firm stuff under the hips might do the trick.

In the meantime, I have the polyfill thing on top of everything, and it’s not ideal, but I’m not waking up with bad pain (so far), so I can probably live with this for a while.

(I must say, this is an oddly personal thing to be discussing with strangers on the Internet, but I’m geeky enough to find the different foam-layering effects kinda interesting.)

-Catherine

20

Hi Catherine,

This type of information can be very helpful as it helps along with other feedback to “point to” what may work best for you. I’m assuming that both the bottoming out with the 2" of 24 ILD and not bottoming out with the 32 ILD was on your side (hips were hitting the firm layer underneath)?

Your 3.5" shoulder measurement is just above “average” based on a fairly limited sample of what “average” is for women :). It does seem to add additional ammunition to the need for thick/soft enough for the shoulders. Thick/soft enough would likely be in the range of 3" all of which would be under 19 ILD. I think the 24 is what could be causing the problem with your shoulders. It would sure be interesting to test out the Nature’s Cloud plush latex at Jamestown as it has 14 ILD talalay over medium firm Dunlop with a quilted wool cover. This and the Nature’s cloud eurotop latex and the heavenly cloud soft latex would be really helpful (in terms of which ones give you good pressure relief and which ones gave you the best alignment). If any of these were close … it would be really helpful as a model and could save you a lot of experimenting and may give a clear idea of whether any zoning is really necessary.

Part of the difficulty is not knowing exactly what is under your toppers but I am working under the assumption (from your description) that it is the Dynasty super firm 2 sided. I’m guessing it has a little more foam in it than 3/4" (which is probably what is in the quilting) which doesn’t include the 1.8 lb foam (not sure the thickness and ILD) in the comfort layer.

In any case … I’d probably lay on a couple of mattresses at Jamestown which would probably save you a lot of aggravation and “layer changing” in the long run and give you some fairly accurate indications. I suspect that with the right layering you may not even need zoning although this is also a possibility.

Phoenix

PS: I understand the feeling about posting information about “body shape” and weight. Sometimes when I ask about weight and “shape” information, I’m half expecting a voice to come through the screen saying “you want me to tell you WHAT?? … not on your life!!” :slight_smile: