Dr. Rick Swartzburg - shoulder issue & mattresses

[Manimal]

Hi All,

I developed a shoulder issue within the past year or so and began looking for a new mattress. I’m a side sleeper and just can’t/won’t transition to being an exclusive back sleeper so it’s obviously important to have some good pressure relief for my shoulder… tricky situation and not sure exactly what the issue is yet with the shoulder, but switching back/forth during the night and laying on my side, at an angle seems to help.

Anyway, I started out by looking at the Tempflow foam hybrid models due to the density/quality of the memory foams while still maintaining some level of “bounce”. However, I still had some concerns about switching to memory foam and have been sleeping on latex and/or “hybrid” foams for years now (most recently Energex comfort layers).

I ended up contacting Tempflow with some questions about the density/qualities of all the foams used and overall mattress constructions. This is what led me to speak with Dr. Rick… after speaking with one of his staff, he ended up contacting me directly.

Rick is clearly hands-on with his business and really wants to help people sleep better and feel healthier. He was very patient and detail-oriented in dealing with me which I really appreciated. I’ve found that too many people these days are dismissive or even frustrated by questions about various specs and details.

We ended up arriving at an all-foam model from his new Back Science line, which I don’t even think has been officially or widely launched yet. Essentially, the design uses a foam spring core (FSC) with a zoned transition layer and hybrid foams in the upper layers. The top two comfort layers can be swapped out while the transition and core/FSC support layers are adhered.

In speaking of details, for anyone reading this I should also mention that all the foams and materials used are the “healthiest” possible for a mattress that’s not “all natural” or “organic”… i.e. Rick’s mattresses have Greenguard Gold, Oeko-Tex, certifications, etc., down to the adhesives If organic/all-natural is your thing, there are plenty of options out there (he carries some of those as well).

Rick felt the hybrid foams in the comfort layers would offer great pressure relief while being more lively than the memory foams used in the Tempflow models, in addition to having the FSC. The design also focuses on midsection support for proper alignment, as the brand name might imply.

During the days we were working through what might work best for me, I ended up visiting a more local business here on the east coast that I’ve been to in the past but didn’t end up purchasing a mattress from (Rick is based out of CA). Long story short, I ended up going with an HR foam/latex hybrid (all-foam) at a very reasonable price (as mentioned repeatedly on TMU, everyone has their own personal value equation). They substituted a polyfoam transition layer with more latex at no extra charge and the design also has some high quality quilting foam, which I thought may help with pressure relief as well.

The mattress turned out firmer than I expected, mainly with more initial firmness in the upper layers than the one they had in the showroom. The “pushback” of the latex comes through much more than I thought it would with having the quilting foam on top. I’m doing OK with it for now but will probably contact them again to explore options.

Dr. Rick’s options offer good value but felt I couldn’t pass up the local offer at the time, especially since I had spoken with them in the past and with the customization at no extra charge. In hindsight, I could have taken some more time before committing and making a final decision but water under the bridge, and I was very intrigued by the design in addition to being impressed by the mattress in the showroom.

At the end of the day, I had two solid options, both with good intentions. It’s unfortunate the mattress I ended up with didn’t turn quite turn out as hoped, so I’ll have to see where things go from here. Again in hindsight, I probably would have been “safer” with Dr. Rick’s design given my circumstances, especially since the comfort layers are interchangeable and exchangeable.

Hopefully certain aspects of my situation may help shed some light on things to consider for those reading and searching for a mattress. I also just wanted to relay what a positive experience I had with Rick despite not going with the Back Science at this time. He’s great to deal with and will do everything possible to work with you and ensure you end up comfortable. There’s still a good chance I’ll be contacting him in the not-too-distant future, depending on what happens with my situation here.

Manimal

[Basilio]

Hi Manimal and welcome back after 5 months!

Sorry to hear of your pains, and your disappointment in the mattress you purchased- And thanks for sharing your experience with the folks at Tempflow.

As you know, any mattress you find suitable will be based on your Stats (height, BMI, sleeping position(s) and any underlying health issues) and your PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure points and Personal preferences). Can you tell the height of the foam layer and density of the foam in your new mattress? A memory foam comfort layer can provide good pressure relief due to the nature of the foam…
however…if the foam density cannot be provided (some of the ‘big brands’ consider this part of their proprietary foam formula), it makes it impossible to assess the suitability and durability of the mattress for any given sleeper. Also, if foam of insufficient density is used, or inexpensive ‘filler’ is added to the foam. It can prematurely break down, leaving ‘divots’ and ‘ridges’ in the foam which can cause or exascerbate aches and pains and even cause alignment issues.

For foams, we suggest any foam in a potential mattress has no more than an inch or so of lower grade foams (for memory foam no lower than 4 lbs/cuft for normal range weights, and 5lbs/cuft for higher range weights) and if polyfoam is used, with at least 1.8 lbs/cuft density, just to ensure you have support.

I took a look at the Tempflow, which is very light on details and heavy on proprietarily named foam formulations…for the original Tempflow mattress:

10"
3" ‘flex comfort layer’
what is called ‘The most breathable memory foam - actually visoelastic foam
‘true 5lb density support’

Generally, a core made from foam springs can present some problems in the long term due to the separate foam coils that act independently and can dislocate, or even break under too much mechanical stress. There are a few more points of failure than with a ‘foam slab’.

It’s worth noting Chiropractor Dr. Rick Swartzburg is head of product development at Tempflow; while this may indeed be a good match for you, the lack of specifications and proprietary names makers it aged to assess how supportive or suitable it would be for any given sleeper. It’s great Dr Swartzburg offered to customize the mattress for you…but be aware a custom bed doesn’t have the same return and exchange policies and warranties as non-custom beds, which can also be a consideration.

As your HR foam/Latex Hybrid mattress will be more durable than a memory foam mattress, you might want to consider a topper; if you can match the comfort layer to your sleep profile, this can ‘soften’ the comfort layer feel, and it may be the ‘final touch’ on what you find to be a too-firm mattress, depending on your Stats and PPP. Many of the Trusted Members of the site carry toppers, both latex and foam, in a variety of firmnesses and price points. Depending on how long you have had your new mattress, you may find it will additionally ‘break in’ and your body will acclimate itself as well for the first month or two, so may be more suitable going forward. Please keep us posted on how it’s going!

~ Basilio

[Manimal]

@Basilio

Basilio

Hi Basilio,

Thanks for your response and comments. I omitted certain details in my original post so that it wouldn’t be any longer than it already was, and also because Rick offered to customize beyond what may have been customary. This is mainly because of the level of detail I got into when discussing his mattresses and what might work for me.

I would never purchase a mattress without being comfortable with the specs/details, starting with the foam density. What I can say is that Rick offered to make the core, which includes the foam springs, entirely of true HR foam (2.5-2.6 pcf density and support factor). It’s very high quality and I’d have no concerns at all with durability, etc., including the foam spring portion. In my case, it was a 7 inch “box” design that’s very well thought out, so while I agree that a foam slab is a simple and time tested design, given the quality of the foam I was comfortable with the foam spring design to gain the added benefit of some more responsiveness/bounce (after all, the mattress I ended up with uses a solid HR foam core).

The comfort layers were hybrid foams as mentioned, so they’re not subject to the 5 pcf+ guidelines. The foams would be comparable to Energex (and similar hybrid foams) which is high quality and usually found in the 2.8 to 3.5 pcf grade. I don’t recall the exact densities offhand, but they passed my “tests” and I was comfortable with them.

I agree that it would be great if brands/manufacturers would list detailed specs for their mattresses and focus less on the “eye catching” and marketing type material. As you know, this is one of the biggest problems with the “big brands” and it’s not likely to ever change. Regarding quality smaller/medium sized brands, I’ve found that they’re sometimes hesitant to list certain specs for fear of being copied, whether by another company or for a DIY project, etc. This is even the case with some MU trusted members but I can understand, as long as they’re willing to provide details upon being contacted (or here in the MU forum).

The lack of detailed foam specs is what led me to reach out to Tempflow initially, and ultimately to look beyond the Tempflow models after learning that Rick had other offerings. In the “true” memory foam models (Tempflow), they at least mention the 5pcf + memory foams used in the comfort/transition layers. Still, there’s not enough meaningful detail and it definitely warranted contacting them to confirm further detail in the constructions.

Aside from the foam specs, Tempflow does provide some information on their site that’s often overlooked or ignored by companies in regards to the “health” factor of other materials used. This relates to the FR material, Oeko-Tex, Greenguard, CertiPUR, BioGreen certifications, etc, Regardless of how much someone “cares” about this information, it’s nice to have some additional assurances with respect to the chemicals and materials used (and that the company considers these aspects). General awareness of these details has been increasing more and more with consumers. Rick was also very forthcoming and understanding with questions on this front since I didn’t see the information initially on the site.

The return/exchange policies are always going to be a consideration and in the case of customization, will depend on the circumstances and what’s agreed to by both parties. Overall, I’d say it’s one of the main areas people focus on when purchasing a mattress and unfortunately, sometimes one of the main points of contention if things don’t turn out as hoped/planned. Rick’s Back Science design provided a strong core, with the top two layers being interchangeable and exchangeable. Aside from that, it’s certainly something I raised when speaking with him (Phoenix would recall an unfortunate situation I had with a former MU trusted member some years ago who would not honor their policies). I was clear on the terms and find Rick very trustworthy.

Regarding warranties, things happen but if a mattress consists of materials and a construction that would designate it as “high quality”, and is on an appropriate/high quality foundation, in my opinion and experience there’s an extremely high probability the warranty won’t be a factor. That said, it can be nice to have just in case. Without getting into details I was comfortable with this also after discussing with Rick and confident he would make good on any issues, even beyond the “official” terms. Again though, I wouldn’t expect the warranty to be a factor and any returns/exchanges would fall under the comfort/preference category.

The company I went with (MU Trusted Member in the past, may not be listed now) doesn’t offer returns or exchanges (which I was aware of) but will work with you to an extent if there are issues. It’s frustrating that after discussion and some level of assurance that the mattress would have at least the softness/cushion/pressure relief of the model on the floor, it’s actually significantly firmer. Moreover, when I called them about a week and a half of being on the new mattress and conveying this feedback, the initial response from the owner was “nah, i don’t think so… felt like it had plenty of cushion (when making it)…”. Ultimately I agreed to call back again in about a month if still having issues. A topper is certainly one option but they can make “adjustments” to the mattress as well (at my expense).

So that’s where I’m at right now. The call mentioned above was over a month ago so I’m most likely going to call them this week to see what may make the most sense. I’ll be sure to post updates.

Thanks,
Manimal