I just contacted the chat boxes for both Arctic Dreams and Tuft and Needle. I asked about outgassing because that is a top concern for me and of course both told me they meet Certi-Pur and don’t outgas much, which may or may not be relevant for someone like me.
My other question was about fire retardants and how they met requirements. The Arctic Dream rep first told me they used wool. When I said I was allergic to wool the rep said they used synthetics. When I asked about specifics he then told me the fire retardant was cotton. I then said cotton was neither synthetic nor a fire retardant, the person sent me a site for a yarn company. Then said the production manager didn’t have the info either and so he couldn’t answer my question. Not impressed. How do you reach Chuck?!
The Tuft and Needle chat person was very professional and friendly, and had all the information I wanted on fire retardants: a sock, stitched to the mattress, made of rayon and polyester with silica, then covered with a removable mattress cover.
Not sure if the difference in chat experiences is worth the difference in price. Also still would like more info from a neutral source on the difference between T & N Adaptive foam and Energex.
So sorry to read about the death of half of Phoenix and understand if there is a delay in answer!
The foams are CertiPUR-US certified in both the Tuft and Needle and the DreamFoam Artic Dreams mattresses for low VOCs. They are both listed on the CertiPUR-US site here.
I’m not what you mean by relevant for “someone like me” refers to - do you have multiple chemical sensitivities (not wanting to get too personal here)? If that is the case, you would certainly be correct that neither manufacturer would be able to give you a definitive answer if their products would meet your specific needs.
While I wasn’t a part of your chat conversation, all I can offer is that Dreamfoam does make models that use wool for the FR barrier, and obviously your chat agent got confused or forgot/mistook what mattress you were asking about, or assumed you were asking about the covering (referencing a yarn company). I can confirm for you that the Arctic Dreams uses the FR sock. It comes from Jones Fiber.
While the chat functions are a nice resource from many of the online companies, I strongly encourage a detailed phone conversation if possible with any of these companies, as you’ll be able to get more complete and specific answers when dealing directly with someone.
Dreamfoam (Arctic Dreams) is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. I certainly wouldn’t hesitate to purchase a mattress from them, and a chat session with a misunderstanding from a representative wouldn’t personally have an impact upon my decision, especially when the information desired is readily available to be confirmed (see my previous links).
Regarding the foams, the Energex polyfoam in the Dreamfoam is a good quality 3 lb. polyfoam that does allow for better repositioning than memory foam, and it is more breathable. The Adaptive foam in the Tuft & Needle is also a good quality 2.8 lb. polyfoam.
There is more about some of these newer high performance polyfoams here in post #2 and beyond.
I just wanted to update on my experience with the Arctic Dreams 12-inch queen size mattress after having slept on it for almost a month. I opened the box and let it settle on my bed frame for a day before sleeping on it. Quality is superb for the price that I paid.
I am 5’6 150lbs athletic build male. I came from a 10-year old latex mattress that was giving me shoulder pains every time I wake up(side sleeper). My first impressions was that the mattress was a little firmer than I wanted for side sleeping. It however, does wonders for my back when I sleep on my back.
After sleeping on it for a few weeks, I now think that it is very close to the perfect firmness that I want. I either got used to it or the mattress has broken in and gotten softer. Regardless, I no longer have any shoulder aches and have been waking up refreshed.
If you want one of the best bang for your buck mattress that is a little firm then look no further. The customer service is also great as they hooked me up with a free pillow for being a member of The Mattress Underground.
Thank you for taking the time to provide an update on your new Arctic Dreams mattress. I’m glad you’re enjoying it and sleeping well.
You are correct, the mattress will be losing some of its “false firmness” these first few weeks.
You are correct, the Arctic Dreams does represent one of the better values in the budget range in the industry. And I’m glad you received your free pillow for being a member of The Mattress Underground.
I am still torn between the Arctic Dreams and Tuft and Needle. My daughter’s Tuft and Needle is very comfortable for me, so that was my first thought. What firmness and size of the Arctic Dreams would correspond to the latest incarnation of Tuft and Needle?
I am chemically sensitive, potentially allergic to latex, and definitely allergic to wool, so looked at floor samples and used mattresses because they have outgassed.
But I am now planning on getting a new mattress and airing it out at my daughter’s then bringing it to my apartment in a UHaul- while my son is visiting!
So now it just down to which mattress is better for a 60 something with some back issues, who sleeps on her side. Thanks!
Tuft and Needle currently uses 3" of 2.9 lb high performance polyfoam (that has good contouring and some localized bounce) on top of a 7" 1.8 lb polyfoam support core.
The Dreamfoam Arctic Dreams currently is offered in three different thicknesses – 8", 10" and 12". The 8" uses a 5.25" polyfoam core under 2" of Energex polyfoam, with .75" polyfoam in the quilt. The 10" uses a 6.25" polyfoam core under 2.5" of Energex polyfoam, with .75" polyfoam in the quilt. The 12" uses a 8.25" polyfoam core under 3" of Energex polyfoam, with .75" polyfoam in the quilt. The polyfoam core is conservatively rated at 1.5 lb., and the Energex polyfoam is 3 lb.
There isn’t really an “equivalent” or “corresponding item” of one item versus another, as they use different foams and combinations. Dreamfoam is a member here, which means that I think highly of them, their advice and their products.
Both brands are CeriPUR-US certified, which included certifying for low VOCs according to their standards, but that of course wouldn’t test for your own specific sensitivities.
This would be extremely rare to be allergic to latex foam, and neither of these items use latex, so it would not be a concern.
If you have a wool sensitivity, even if the mattress contained it, you wouldn’t be in contact with it, so this generally wouldn’t be an issue. Neither of these items contain wool.
These products will off-gas throughout their life, but some people are more sensitive to the odors of a new mattress, so airing it out makes sense regardless of what you purchase.
While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
I’m not sure if you’ve read this since your earlier post, but the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).
While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will “feel” for someone else or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress … outside of PPP (which is the most important part of “value”), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
When you’re looking online and can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs, options, and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
Just purchased the Arctic Dreams 10-Inch Cooling Gel Mattress Queen size off of Amazon after reading this thread and your website. I was deciding between the Tuft and Needle and Arctic Dreams and had ordered the Tuft and Needle but then had second thoughts a few hours in and canceled just in time.
Excited to see what Arctic Dreams has in store for me and will post back with my thoughts.
I also contacted Dream Foam Bedding to see if they are still offering that free pillow promotion with purchase and subsequent commenting on the Mattress Underground website. I will see what they say about that. Regardless I am happy with my purchase and will report back with my thoughts!
Congratulations on your new mattress! :cheer: You certainly made a good value choice, and as you’re already aware, Dreamfoam is a member here, which means that I think highly of them. If you don’t receive a reply via email be sure to phone them regarding the pillow promotion.
I’m looking forward to learning about your new mattress once you’ve had a chance to sleep on it for a while.
Is there a reason for this that I should be concerned about? Do you invite members or do they ask to join? Does this mean you do not think Tuft and Needle is a good purchase?
Here’s a link describing the qualities required of site members, and post #64 here goes into a bit more detail about this process.
As a synopsis, this site has always been about education and “how” to choose a mattress. The business membership here would account for a very small percentage of the actual purchases made from research performed on this site, because I’m happy to “point to value” wherever I see it.
In short, I would have no concern purchasing a product from a site non-member if their componentry meets the guidelines as outlined on the site and in the Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
I read all those links but have no way to discern whether Tuft and Needle somehow didn’t meet your criteria so you did not invite them, or whether they did meet your criteria, you invited them, but they declined. I wish I could know.
This particular thread would seem to redirect Tuft and Needle’s potential customers toward the Arctic Dreams. Not saying that you are doing that, but that is the end result of the discussion: I don’t see anyone coming away from this thread purchasing a Tuft and Needle, but many are purchasing an Arctic Dream.
My reading of reviews on Amazon would seem to suggest the opposite, with 90% top rating for Tuft and Needle and 75% for Arctic Dreams and some alarming photographs of the latter. Who knows who really posted the photos though, right?!
I am feeling as if I cannot trust anyone including this site, since one company being discussed here is a member and the other isn’t. You do an incredible, admirable job in NOT suggesting specific mattresses but bias is unavoidable in the eye of the reader when you can say one company belongs and cannot say the other one does- by omission if you will.
I know you have dealt with this issue in the past, and it does not change my admiration for what you are doing and have done for a long time. I just wish I could know why Tuft and Needle is not a member! And I know you cannot say.
I just realized I forgot to include the link to Tuft and Needle in my original reply to your question – sorry about that. They were members previously but asked to be removed from the site membership list in 2015. I think this completely answers your question.
Actually, it seems this is exactly what you are implying. But this is not the case. Threads are started by members asking about specific products and as you stated they are not guided toward one brand or another, and if you take the time to do a cursory search on the forum you’ll see many people who have purchased Tuft and Needle, as well as other brands, in various threads. As I mentioned previously in my reply (and the links contained within), the large majority of mattress purchases made by people visiting this site are for brands outside of the site membership.
You’re assuming (incorrectly) that the only sales that result from people visiting this thread (and the various others on the forum) are the ones who take the time to post here, which of course would not be accurate. As I mentioned previously in my reply, the large majority of mattress purchases made by people visiting this site are for brands outside of the site membership.
What is stated as a “review” on Amazon or any other site would be the least reliable many in which to make an informed mattress purchase, as I can point to a myriad of memory foam mattresses on sites like that with “5-star” rating that use some incredible low quality materials. These “reviews” are generated generally in the short-term by a populace unqualified to render an educated analysis about a product. While most reviewers are certainly well meaning … because most reviews aren’t relevant to anyone but the reviewer and can be “influenced” so easily and in so many ways … for the most part (with only few exceptions) mattress reviews are a classic example of garbage in / garbage out even though the “garbage” may be well meaning and true to the experience of the person writing the review. Of course, you’re welcome to put as much emphasis into whatever information you read as suits your personal preferences and beliefs. I just wouldn’t agree with using sites like Amazon as guidance for a mattress purchase, either pro or con.
If a reader were to feel that they can’t trust this site because they feel they are entitled to complete information about businesses that may or may not have been contacted for site membership and the processes involved, even though the qualifications for membership are transparent and posted prominently throughout the site (see here and here ), to me this would speak more to that person’s personal biases, and even cynicism, than any lack of transparency of this site. It is repeated here and in other areas of the site that membership of this site is not a reason to make a purchase.
Membership is generally a side effect of my ongoing conversations with retailers and manufacturers and I don’t actively “seek” new members. In other words, the process is more “organic”. In most cases I wait for them to ask and some of them haven’t even been to the site enough to realize that membership is even an option. In some cases, I have talked with them for several years and the idea hasn’t even been discussed. The Objective Criteria I use includes the knowledge, experience, and service of the manufacturer or retailer and looking at their mattresses to make sure they meet the quality and durability guidelines here and that the information on their site is relatively accurate and factual. Some of the more subjective or “best judgement” criteria I use include asking myself what I would say on the forum about a manufacturer or retailer and the mattresses they make and how they compete with others that I would consider to be among the “best in the industry” based on all the parts of each person’s personal value equation that may be most important to them.
One of the most important goals of the site has always been to be fact based and to promote full disclosure so that anyone can validate the information for themselves and not have to “just believe” anyone (including me). While I certainly have my own preferences (and latex for example is one of these), and my own biases (quality componentry and construction), my first loyalty is to information about anything connected to mattresses that can be validated or at least agrees with the “preponderance of the evidence” when black and white answers aren’t available so that people can make up their own minds about what they may need and prefer, regardless of who else it may agree with.
This site has always been about providing information about “how” to choose a mattress that provides the tools and information that will make the quality and value of a purchase self-evident, regardless of brand, so that each person has the knowledge and information to be able to assess the suitability, quality/durability, and value of a mattress purchase for themselves based on their own unique needs and preferences and criteria regardless of what anyone else may prefer or recommend and without having to “believe” anyone. It’s the difference between helping the members here learn “how” to choose vs telling them “what” to choose based on preferences or criteria that may not be relevant or meaningful to them or in many cases may not be in their best interests (or the difference between giving someone a fish or teaching them how to fish).
Even the logo of the site (Borromean rings and a mobius strip around them) is meant to represent the three “ideals” of the site (listed in the about us page here ) which is to connect educated consumers, with high quality and value manufacturers and retailers that provide exceptional service. Like Borromean rings … if one of these links breaks … they will all fall apart and like the mobius strip that surrounds them … these types of manufacturers, retailers, and consumers are all on the same side no matter where they start.
Membership only recognizes the quality, service, and value that already exists and there are many great options that are listed in many of the lists across the country that may not be a member for years or in some cases may not even realize that a site called The Mattress Underground exists (although that’s unlikely if people found them through the forum lists). My goal in other words has always been to point to value wherever I find it regardless of membership and let the membership be a side effect of ongoing conversations that looks after itself as more manufacturers and retailers become more aware of the goals and ideals of the site. There are many others that are “among” the best value in the country that are not members here and that you will find in my lists and comments in dozens or even hundreds of posts around the forum that I also think highly of.
In the end of course, what someone believes about anyone else, this site, or a particular manufacturer or brand, is always up to each person and each of us is always free to use any evidence (selectively or otherwise) that we choose to justify our beliefs, but it makes sense to me to give someone the benefit of the doubt when their history goes back many years and points to the kind of integrity that is incredibly rare in the industry today.
You’re certainly free to take the information presented (and not presented here) and weigh it according to your own personal scale of importance, and through the fact of omission discount any brand that is not a member here of the site (which I think would be a mistake), or discount any member here of the site for which you don’t have a complete explanation of everything involved in them becoming a member (which I also believe would be a mistake), or you could simply use the guidelines presented in the mattress shopping tutorial to objectively analyze the componentry within any mattress you’re considering and make your decision in that manner (which I strongly suggest). The information is here for you to use (or not) as you please, and as some say, worth the price you pay .
“I just realized I forgot to include the link to Tuft and Needle in my original reply to your question – sorry about that. They were members previously but asked to be removed from the site membership list in 2015 . I think this completely answers your question.”
You are right, the paragraph above did answer my question My concern was more with Tuft and Needle for not being a member than with the quality of this site.
Thank you for the information on the subject! I spent several hours on this site last night in making my mattress decision. I have decided to go with the Arctic Dreams 12" mattress. I have just ordered and can’t wait for it to arrive! Thank you for all of the helpful information on this site.
Welcome to the site! And congratulations on your new mattress! :cheer: As you’re well aware, you certainly made a good quality/value choice with the Arctic Dreams.
I hope you’ll post again once you’ve had the chance to try out your new mattress for a while and let us know how it is working out for you.
Thanks to this forum/thread I picked out Arctic Dreams as well! Ordered me the medium at 10" as the price was just too good, gonna wait a while till I upgrade to a full latex later on. Also posting for my free pillow!!
Phoenix, how long do you think a polyfoam like this could last with an adjustable bed? I’ve heard the adjustments usually make them get softer quicker. Just ordered an adjustable off of amazon and was wondering if this could kill the mattress.
Congratulations on your new mattress purchase! :cheer: You certainly chose one of the better quality budget values available.
I wouldn’t be able to quantify how long a product would last, as besides the quality of the materials contained within the mattress, this will also come down to the use of the product and the mass placed upon it. It is true that frequent adjustment (bending up and down) of a mattress placed upon a power foundation will increase mechanical stresses placed upon the foam, and the specific weight concentration will be increased in certain areas (usually around your hips/seat) when sitting upright with the head section elevated to its higher settings. My best advice would be to frequently rotate your mattress to best extract the maximum useful comfort life out of your product.
I’ll be interested in learning about your new mattress once you’ve had a chance to sleep upon it for a while.
