I’m a newbie here but I’ve been lurking the forums posts for a while now, doing some reading and research on memory foam / latex foam mattresses. This is going to be long but I really hope someone can help me out.
Cutting to the chase, I’m 5’10 180 lbs, side and back sleeper, looking for a queen sized bed. So here’s my issue, I’m currently sleeping on a tuft and needle bed. This is my first memory foam bed and the first 4 days on it was honestly the best sleep I’ve had in a very long time. I would wake up very well rested and would look forward to going to bed. But then after that I had severe lower back pains. I figured this could be due to sleeping toward the edge with mimimal edge support and even though I don’t do this, I now sleep in the center which helped. I think my PPP must be way off as I have to strategically place my pillows as after a few days my upper back started to ache. I have thr firm.pillows from bed bath and beyond. Basically I need a pillow supporting my neck and just around the top of my shoulder blades. I tried not doing this one day and the upper back pain returned.
The firmness of the mattress is a bit bothersome as it can start to feel tight and uncomfortable. I’m still under the mattress trial period so I’m strongly considering returning it. Memory foam is nice but I realise the support has to be good as well. I’m not sure what was different the first few days that I experienced such great sleep. Sleeping on air mattresses is more comfortable than sleeping on this.
I was looking at a few options and needed your opinion in terms of quality of the mattresses. I wanted to get the dreamfoam bedding ultimate dreams aria / supreme, so that would mean either a medium / medium-firm. I’m leaning towards the medium-firm considering it is memory foam and will soften up over time, however this wasn’t the case with tuft and needle. With my weight stats though would this mattress provide good support ? Or how similar would be it to the tuft and needle ? I was also considering to get an Aerus 4lb topper (unsure about the thickness) just to soften the mattrees, I know this shouldn’t be necessary but I just want to protect myself from any aches and pains that may occur as I’ve never had back issues in the past so this is all new for me.
I’m located in the Central PA, Harrisburg area. Browsing the forum posts I see there were couple of local stores recommended, although I haven’t physically been to these stores, browsing their websites, it doesn’t seen like they would have anything in the $600 range for a quality memory foam mattress. But let me know if otherwise, as I’ll get to at least try the mattress out before buying it.
I guess what would you recommend from DreamfoamBedding or should I stick with the tuft and needle and perhaps just add the aerus topper to it ? I’m not heavy but I feel like in a sense I’m getting thru the comfort layer of the tuft and needle to the really firm layer which can get uncomfortable.
Appreciate any ideas on this, I look forward to your response.
I’m not sure what you’ve read since you found the site but just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
I’m not sure why you came to believe that the Tuft & Needle was a memory foam mattress but it doesn’t contain any memory foam.
Both the Aria and the Supreme are memory foam mattresses so outside of any differences in firmness both of them will have a different “feel” and slower response than the tuft & Needle which uses a more resilient high performance polyfoam in the comfort layers.
While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart (and who won’t just sell you anything they can convince you to buy) and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
If the only issue with a mattress is that it is too firm and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress then a good quality topper can certainly be an effective way to add some additional softness, “comfort” and pressure relief to your sleeping system but the only way to know for certain whether a specific mattress/topper combination is a good “match” for both of you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP is based on your own careful testing or personal experience on the combination. If you can’t test the combination in person then there will always be always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice on any specific mattress.
There is more information about choosing a topper and a link to the better online sources I’m aware of in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.
Because of the uncertainty that can be involved with purchasing a topper where you can’t test the combination in person … a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase and any costs involved just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.
I’m guessing that the list you saw was the one in post #2 here. The only recommended store on the list is Magic Sleeper who is a member of the site and the others are “possibilities” that would depend on confirming that they are completely transparent about the type and quality of the materials in their mattresses (see this article) although I do know that Denver mattress does disclose all the information that you would need to make an informed choice. Of course I would also make sure that any specific mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I linked earlier in this reply.
I don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the local or online lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in considering or visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.
Again the best source of guidance about the Dreamfoam mattresses would be a more detailed phone conversation to Dreamfoam.
Any particular online mattresses may be a “great” match for a relatively small percentage of people, a good match for a larger percentage, and an "OK match for a larger percentage yet, but for those where it isn’t a “good enough” match then most people would just return the mattress and try a different one unless there are other options that the company has available that don’t involve additional expense.
If you do decide to add the topper I would make sure you are comfortable with the additional cost of your “sleeping system” compared to other mattresses that are available to you that may not need a topper and I would also make sure that you are comfortable with the options you have after a purchase if the topper doesn’t work out as well as you hoped for and you need to return both the mattress and the topper.
I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether anyone else would have the same criteria or circumstances or would make the same choice.
Thanks for taking the time Phoenix for a detailed response, really appreciate it! I goofed up when I said Tuft & Needle was my first Memory Foam Mattress, I mean my first Foam mattress of any kind, I’m aware they use Polyfoam, at the time of buying it I think I was sold on the air flow aspect of it. Although the advertised thickness is 10 inches, mines is a bit below that around 9.75 or so, I’m not sure if this is normal.
Couple of points that you hit on, I’m aware a topper such as Aerus or Sensus will increase the cost of my sleep system but I guess my way of looking at it is I don’t want to pay $800 - 900 for a memory foam mattress and run the risk of it giving me aches and then being stuck with it / return it. I know I could be wrong as a good quality mattress probably doesn’t need a topper, but considering that majority of the options I’m looking at are online based and I probably won’t be able to try it before I buy it, So I’m just thinking in terms of damage control, as I was originally considering the Christeli line but their return policy is something that I’m not comfortable with incase things don’t work out.
There are no noticeable indentations in the Tuft & Needle mattress, but it’s only been 2 months and knowing that the mattress isn’t comfortable for me, it doesn’t make sense to keep it as is. Prior to this I had a cheap innerspring eurotop plush mattress that wasn’t really soft, it was just in the middle providing good support for 5 years before it started to sag. I know comparing an innerspring to foam may not be fair but in terms of comfort and price it was much better. Sleeping on an Intex Air Mattress before the Tuft & Needle came in was better as well. Like I mentioned earlier, I really don’t know what was so different the first 4 days I slept on the mattress. I know I said sleeping on the side w/ minimal edge support caused lower back aches but I slept on the same spot the previous days as well.
Anyways, I think the first thing to do as you suggested, would be to speak with Dreamfoam bedding, which should also help w/ my decision of Aria / Supreme, any reason why their Softest model is more expensive ? The only reason I’m not considering this is due to I’m unsure how the support would be. I did consider Denver Mattress, but since they are located in York, PA. Their delivery charge is a bit steep at $235 which is standard on any mattress I choose.
I have to narrow down a thickness on the topper as well before I make the purchase, but I hope I can get this figured out soon and make a purchase as sleeping on the Tuft & Needle hasn’t been a lot of fun. I’m just waiting to figure something out in terms of an alternative, before I initiate the return.
Very small variations in thickness such as 1/4" would be normal and would also depend on where and how you measured the mattress. For example it may be thicker in the center where you can’t measure it as easily than on the sides where the cover may be slightly compressing the foam.
There is more about the different ways to choose a mattress and “manage” the risk involved in the previous post I linked in my last reply but when you are buying online then you can’t make side by side comparisons with other mattresses so the only way to know for certain whether they will be a “good enough” match for you to keep it (even if they aren’t the “best match” out of all the mattresses that you “could have tried” instead") will be based on your own personal experience. It’s really a matter of risk management and “tilting” the odds in your favor as much as possible even though nothing will have a 100% chance of success…
I would also keep in mind that the quality of a mattress has little to nothing to do with whether it needs a topper because you can’t feel the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress and durability is a completely separate issue from whether a mattress will be suitable for you to sleep on. Suitability, durability, and your personal preferences and all the other parts of your personal value equation that may be important to you are all different issues even though they are all related to the “value” of a mattress purchase.
The Tuft & Needle uses good quality and durable materials that are certainly durable enough for your weight range so it would be very unusual for any mattress that uses good quality and durable materials to show significant signs of the foam breaking down before you have slept on the mattress for a number of years but in terms of finding a mattress that is a suitable design and firmness level I would agree that your odds of success are probably higher by returning it and trying a different mattress that may be a better “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP than they would be by adding a topper unless you can return the mattress and the topper if the combination doesn’t work out as well for you as you hoped for and that the mattress/topper combination would also be better “value” than purchasing a different mattress that doesn’t need a topper.
Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article). The most reliable way to know which types of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer in more general terms would be based on your own local testing or your own personal experience. when you sleep on it.
While it’s not possible to “diagnose” mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because they can be very complex and there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort” and PPP or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.
“Support” is often misunderstood because the goal of a “supportive” mattress is to keep the spine and joints in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more (softer) and some parts of the body to sink in less (firmer) and this will vary on an individual basis and the overall firmness of a mattress isn’t necessarily an indication of how well it will keep your spine and joints in good alignment because it depends on which layers are softer and which layers are firmer. A mattress that is too firm won’t support the more recessed parts of your body (such as the waist or small of the back/lumbar) and a mattress that is too soft won’t support the heavier parts of your body (such as the hips/pelvis).
There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
Talking with them would certainly be a good idea. Their softest mattress is more costly because the materials and components in the mattress are more costly. It uses thicker layers of memory foam and also includes 5 lb memory foam as well.
Again the only way to know for certain whether any mattress will be a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own careful testing or your personal experience but their guidance would shift the odds of success to be more in your favor.
The topper guidelines include some very generic suggestions for topper thicknesses using your experience on your mattress and “how much” too firm it is as a reference point but again it’s not possible to know for certain without testing the combination in person.
Here’s my Update: I got a chance to speak w/ Chuck @ Dreamfoam and would like to share some of the points he hit on which may help others on here. He patiently answered all my questions and asked me to call back if I had any further questions. I let him know that I currently had a Tuft & Needle and how the experience has been. He said the Aria would be more close to the Tuft & Needle in terms of mattress feel / firmness. But he said that in comparison to the Supreme, the Aria does tend to sleep a bit cooler due to the fact it has an ON the mattress feel as opposed to an IN the mattress feel which you would get w/ the Supreme. I asked Chuck how the mattresses would hold up over time, he said you should generally get about the same life span from both, maybe squeeze a bit more out of the Aria but nothing too significant.
He explained the return policy to me, which needs to be done by the 45 days trial period and requires a plastic mattress bag that the mattress needs to be placed in unstained/ripped/torn etc.
I’ve decided to pair this with a topper, and I’m definitely going forward with a DreamFoam UD after our conversation. I’m just deciding between the Aria/Supreme, slightly leaning towards the Aria. The only thing I’m trying to wrap my head around is since I haven’t adjusted to the Tuft & Needle in terms of aches & pains and I’m not a fan of the feel, so keeping that in mind I’m not sure if the Aria will be a good choice, but then again w/ the topper this may really not be something I have to really think about it.
Basically Chuck explained that it really depends on the level of plushness I prefer. With the Aria the firmness will be there initially but I’m thinking more in terms of when the memory foam breaks down if I can expect some plushness then or not and of course that’s not really something anyone can really predict. I’m not sure if Polyfoam behaves differently but I’ve had the Tuft & Needle for 2 months now and it hasn’t softened up or anything.
Anyways their ongoing site wide 10% discount coupled with the TMU member free pillow option that Chuck made me aware of is really a good deal so I will be pulling the trigger on a Queen size soon. Just giving the Aria vs Supreme a little more thought before I do. I hope my hunt for a memory foam mattress stops here and look forward to some great sleep. I’ll definitely provide an update once I make the purchase and provide honest feedback.
