I have been avidly devouring the contents of this website all afternoon. We have called both of the businesses recommended first in this thread and will be visiting The Mattress Factory tomorrow. Given that a couple of other websites indicate that a comfort layer of 28 ILD is still very slightly firm for side sleepers (such as myself and my wife) I am surprised that Peter’s lowest in-stock ILD Talalay is a 28 rating. Perhaps I can ask for some clarity from you Phoenix… would you agree that most side sleepers prefer an ILD between 24 and 26??
Finally, does a 2" Talalay comfort layer seem a bit thin over the firmer core?
It really depends on the specifics of all the layers of a mattress not on one specific layer but in general side sleepers will prefer softer or thicker comfort layers (and some even softer than 24). There is no “formula” though that can predict what any specific person will do best with in terms of PPP and I would always go by your personal testing based on how all the layers or components in the mattress interact with your body type and sleeping positions and avoid the “temptation” to try to use specs or ILD to try and “imagine” what something will feel like until you have some good reference points based on personal experience.
Again … this will depend entirely on how well it works for you in terms of PPP. For some people the answer may be yes and for others it may be no and only your own experience can give you the reference points that can really answer these types of “comfort” questions.
Slotshot, having been to the Mattress Factory recently I’d ask Peter what ILD core he used in his demo model(s). I found it quite firmer than I expected for a 28ILD Talalay comfort layer, and I suspect that a too-firm core may have had something to do with it. As Phoenix said though, your perception may vary from mine based on your body type.
Thanks for the wisdom. I will report back with what we find. Also, one last question… Phoenix you indicated that you ordered a two sided mattress. Does this mean that the mattress you ordered had comfort layers on both sides and could be flipped? Is this something we should be certain was part of our construction?
Craig,
I will be curious of your findings today as well. I purchased a 36 ILD 10 days ago and as a side sleeper I’m finding it just a bit too firm. For sure I will need to change to the 28 ILD. Mine is a 2 sided which means I can flip the mattress.
Thanks - KayJazz
Bedford
That’s entirely up to each person’s personal value equation. Its certainly not necessary but a two sided construction can extend the life of a mattress even with a material as durable as latex (as long as you flip it). There is more about the pros and cons of a two sided mattress in posts #2 and #3 here and the posts it links to.
Quick update - we went and visited Peter at his facility today. As previously mentioned by other posters, he was extremely nice and knowledgeable. We tried out a series of different ILD combinations (felt like Goldilocks) and we both agreed that the 24 ILD Talalay comfort layer with a 28 Dunlop support core was too soft. Likewise, the 34/36 (I think) was too firm. We settled on a dual sided 28 ILD Talalay comfort layer with a 34 ILD Dunlop core as a nice compromise. Of course, Peter indicated that if it turned out we ended up having firmness issues he would take care of them. In addition, a current sale he was having had the platform purchaseable at a very deep discount. On top of that, he made certain that we got the 5% Mattress Underground discount.
His family has run this business since 1896… holy moly! HIs building was basically a factory with a small rudimentary showroom in an old portion of Fort Worth. At this point, basically industrial area. The other two things that really stood out to me were that he offered to take myself and my 8 year old daughter on a quick tour of his manufacturing facility. It was really neat to see that area and I know my daughter really enjoyed it. Also, by 11 year old boy got a little wild while in his showroom. He has Down Syndrome and could not resist jumping on all of those beds! I was embarrassed but Peter was very cool about it. Finally, it looks like the bed will be built and ready to pick up Monday afternoon…in 2 days. WOW!
Realizing that we have not laid on our actual bed yet, every other aspect of the process with Peter and his business has been top notch. I expect that we will also love the quality of our purchase as well, but it is sure nice to know that Peter is there to assist if that does not go exactly as I truly expect it to. I will provide a review after we have slept on it a couple weeks, but I really want to thank everyone, especially Phoenix, for the kind assistance they provided in this process.
Thanks for taking the time to share the details of your experience with Peter and The Mattress Factory … I appreciate it.
It’s great to see you took your time to work on your configuration and I’m looking forward to any updates you have a chance to share when you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Most importantly … congratulations on your new mattress … I think you made a great choice
I decided to move my questions concerns about latex mattresses in the DFW area to this topic.
After some deliberation and dealing with a tempurpedic mattress, trying some latex mattresses at other places, I settled on a mattress from the Mattress Factory; I got a queen barrington latex flippable mattress with ILD 24 talalay on both sides and a ILD 28 dunlop core.
Full disclosure–I probably didn’t spend as much time lying on the mattresses as I would’ve liked to because the website had said they closed at 5:30, but really he told me they close at 5, so I only got about 10 - 15 min to test two beds out.
The second time I went over there I had settled on the medium mattress after a few minutes but again, got there before someone was leaving so I felt a little rushed into finalizing a purchase. Nevertheless, I went ahead and purchased it.
I have the mattress at my house and I’m using it—but now that I’ve had a little more time with it, I’m noticing that maybe I have more weight in my hips than I thought and I’m feeling lower back pressure when I wake up in the morning, and I just get the general sensation that my hip area is lower than the rest of my body.
I’m a side sleeper and I turn a lot at night.
What is the best way to tell whether it’s too hard or too soft for me? I’m trying to figure out if I should try a firmer ILD or just give up with the full latex mattress and just settle on a regular spring with latex topper. And if I get a firmer ILD—how do I know if it’s too firm or not firm enough?
I was just under the impression that there wasn’t a lot of leeway/customizability with the latex mattress firmness from the Mattress Factory.
I’m a little frustrated because I thought he would be a little more supportive and informative about helping me make my decisions, but instead I felt rushed and brushed aside and now I have some back pain.
I hope I’m asking the right questions and making sense!
It’s unfortunate that you weren’t able to spend more time testing the mattresses because spending 15 or 20 minutes on a mattress and carefully evaluating it for PPP (fully relaxed and using the testing guideines) can certainly make a difference but I would talk to Peter about the options you have for changing the ILD of the layers … possibly to a firmer support layer (28 ILD would be on the soft side for a support layer for many people).
If you sleep with a partner then I would also make sure that you test the mattress together because a mattress can feel and respond differently when two people sleep on it than it does with one.
Both latex and an innerspring can be a suitable and durable support layer and the choice between them would be more of a preference issue than anything else.
The “sensation” on a mattress is more subjective and it’s often the case that people “feel like” they are sinking in more or less than they are used to when they are sleeping on a mattress that uses a material that they aren’t used to sleeping on but the actual “symptoms” you experience are the guidelines I would use to decide on any changes in a mattress that may be necessary (see post #6 here)
Post #2 here has more about some of the more common “symptoms” on a mattress and some of the possible reasons that can cause them that may be helpful in combination with your discussions with Peter.
You are certainly asking the right questions but there are so many variables and preferences involved in a mattress choice that in the end you each of us is the only one that can “feel” what we feel on a mattress and everything else is just “best effort” guidance.
Good comments rjar, I too had similar thoughts. My lower lumbar on the 38 ILD was tender. Also a side sleeper. I think weight does play a factor so will say I’m 144 pounds. I am returning today to try the 28 ILD.
Craig how is your custom bed feeling? Any early comments you can share?
When you say your lower lumbar on the 36 ILD was tender, how was your feeling overall? Was it tender because your spine was being pushed up and so it was too firm for you?
I’m inserting This picture to show you how the mattress is making me feel sore in the morning. Mainly the middle image is what I feel in terms of pressure, I’m pretty sure it’s too soft. I have that 24/28/24 combination.
That being said, I sleep with a partner who is about 130/140lbs and he sleeps to be sleeping fine on the mattress; he’s very skinny. I weigh about 177lbs, with most of my weight around my hip area.
With the 36 ILD, did you feel like your tenderness was coming from the last image? your spine was being pushed upwards too much?
Also how did your shoulders feel?
I’m just wondering if the 36 will be too firm for me as well. I’m trying to think the best combination for comfort layers and core layers; I don’t want to have to keep returning the mattress! Maybe I should go back today as well…
We are on our way to the Mattress Factory now. I don’t think the 36 ILD pushes upward. Will use the pictures you shared when at the store and let you know.
Well we have been sleeping on our Mattress Factory mattress for several days now and I can easily say it is the most comfortable thing I have ever sat/laid on. We decided on the 28/34/28 combo after trying out softer and firmer variations and I believe this is certainly the right one for us (both side sleepers).
The above combo seems to cushion and support us without an excessive amount of sinking into the comfort layer. Oddly the biggest surprise for me has been the ease of getting out of the bed. In fact, it is almost too easy when rolling out since the edges of the bed are not possessing the box spring type rigid support I accidentally launched myself the first time. Now that it is a known quantity I actually use this force to my advantage at let the mattress launch me a bit
Anyway, we two side sleepers found this combo to be ideal, with no lumbar or shoulder problems at all, but personal preferences may vary of course.
Thanks for the update Craig - good to hear you got the right combo for your needs as it’s not always the easiest of decisions.
Yesterday I returned to TMF/The Mattress Factory to see what ILD options might be better suited as the 36 ILD (using Dunlop 6"-36 for the core and 2" - 36 Talalay comfort layer on either side of the core) was too firm for me.
Peter laid a 28 ILD on top of the all 36 ILD to help me get a sense if perhaps a 36 Dunlop core and 28 Talalay comfort offered a better PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). After repeated testing of each bed for well over an hour, I opted for the all 28 ILD (28 ILD 6" core and 28 ILD 2" Talalay dual comfort layers). The 28 gave me that bit of cradling feeling and overall my body felt better.
The pillow options - personally that too seemed to make a difference for me on how the mattress felt overall. I opted for the latex pillows (much better than the foam, contour pillow). I suggest when trying a bed that you also try different types of pillows.
I have read many comments about Dunlop being firm and Talalay being softer, yet I was told that a 36 ILD for Dunlop and Talalay were the same. The link below helped me better understand why.
rjar - continue on the quest to get that perfect latex bed. I should get my 28 ILD later this week and will leave an update.
Thanks to Phoenix and everyone posts on this awesome site - a huge help.
This is “partly” correct but is also “partly” incorrect.
The ILD of a material is not the only specification that has an effect on pressure relief and the sensation of softness (see post #4 here).
If you sink into a mattress layer exactly 25% they would be the same but in most cases different parts of the body or different people will sink into a layer either more or less than this. A material that has a higher compression modulus (gets firmer faster with deeper compression) will feel firmer if you sink into it deeper than 25% and softer if you sink in less than 25% compared to a different material that has the same ILD.
It’s also not the case that all ILD measurements are done in the same way because they can use different perentages of compression to measure ILD and they may also use different layer thicknesses as well which will all affect the ILD rating. There is more about the variations in ILD and how it is tested in post #6 here.
There is also more about the difference in “feel” between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here.
what is source of their dunlop and talalay latex? is talalay latex synthetic?
28ild dunlop is not soft. what customization when he only has 2 latex mattresses to try? you cant customize unless you try it otherwise it is just guesswork.
Many manufacturers keep the source of their materials confidential for competitive reasons and don’t disclose this to their customers but they could certainly provide the type and blend of any latex in their mattress which is the information that would be important to know.
Both manufacturers of Talalay latex (Latex International and Radium) make two basic versions. One is 100% natural (it has no synthetic rubber in the formula) and the other is a blend which is approximately 30% natural rubber and 70% synthetic rubber (although it can vary to some degree). They will tell you which one they use but I believe it’s the blended Talalay. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.
Softness and firmness are very subjective and relative to each person’s perceptions. In a comfort layer 28 ILD would usually be considered medium but 28 ILD would be on the softer end of the range if it was used as a support layer so softness/firmness also depends on the function of the specific layer.
If you have tested a specific combination then you can use your testing to decide if you need more support or more pressure relief than the mattress you are testing and use this as a reference point for any changes to the mattress. If a manufacturer can also make changes to the mattress after a purchase then you can also use your own actual sleeping experience to confirm that the design is suitable for you so knowing the options you have after a purchase can also be an important part of your research and your personal value equation.
