Thanks again. I will get those details. It seems this mattress, though very comfortable and firm when I slept on it, is mostly foam. The Classic 2000 from Sleeptek was 6" latex in the core. From reading the post you linked to, where you speak of the merits of the materials, it seems that foam is a waste, esp if you’re heavier, as that fellow was, and as I am, between 190-200. Would this Natura bed even last/hold/support me? It’s entire core is foam, whereas the Classic 2000, for example, is latex. Is my only option, adding another $1000 to the $1500 for the Natura mattress, to get the Classic 2000 or something else?
Both mattresses are made from foam materials (which includes latex foam, memory foam, and polyfoam) but of course most types and densities of polyfoam are a lower cost material than most types and densities of memory foam or most types and blends of latex. I certainly wouldn’t call polyfoam a waste though since you couldn’t sleep on just a comfort layer by itself and the polyfoam support core provides the deep support that is needed under the softer latex comfort layers. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
There are many people that can’t afford an all latex mattress that is both thick enough and has the combination of layering that will provide them with suitable comfort and support and for these people a latex/polyfoam hybrid can provide many of the benefits of sleeping on latex at a much lower cost (although there are many latex/polyfoam hybrids that aren’t particularly good “value” that can sometimes approach the cost of an all latex mattress). There are even some people who may prefer a polyfoam/latex hybrid over an all latex mattress and there are also some all polyfoam mattresses that use high quality versions of polyfoam that many people sleep very well on and would make very durable choices as well.
Polyfoam comes in a very wide range of firmness levels and different densities that range from low quality/density versions which are “junk” that will soften and break down very quickly to very high quality/density versions which are very durable and in some cases are comparable to latex in terms of durability … especially in the deeper support layers of a mattress which generally aren’t the weakest link of a mattress.
A latex/polyfoam hybrid that uses at least 1.8 lb density polyfoam would generally be suitable for someone in your weight range and even for those that are in much higher weight ranges a higher density support core in the range of 2 lb density or higher would be a very durable material as well.
The choice between different types of materials and mattresses is generally a preference and a budget choice (see this article) and any type or combination of materials that are durable enough for the weight range of the person sleeping on it and that are a suitable “match” in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) can make a very suitable and very durable choice for a mattress.
Thank you again for your helpful and quick response. My apologies for the delay, but I contacted Natura and they only got back to me this afternoon. So it’s 1.55 lbs density in the core. That is on the very low end, as noted in the article you sent. I’m about 200 lbs.
The reason I emphasized the superior quality of a latex core is precisely for the reason noted in the article you linked to, namely, the durability. I should emphasize that they knocked another $100 off the price of the Natura mattress, down to below $1500. If you or anyone else has suggestions for queen mattresses in that price range, or, more accurately, up to $2000 taxes in, that are superior, better deals, even with a denser polyfoam core, etc., then I’d love to here them. I am doing some research, but I certainly don’t know much of what’s out there. I almost want to buy the Natura and get it over with (under $2000 everything in, including foundation and frame), but I will do some more research today and tomorrow before making a final decision. If the Natura had a higher density, I’d buy it asap.
Thanks again and I’ll write more when I have more.
While the deeper layers of a mattress aren’t generally the weakest link in a mattress … with only 2" of latex on top of it and with your weight you may be compressing the support core more than someone that was lighter and I would look for a higher density base foam (at least 1.8 lbs).
While a lower density base foam is a reasonable compromise for lower budget mattresses … it would still be a higher risk purchase than a mattress that used a higher density base foam and I wouldn’t be comfortable with 1.55 lb density polyfoam in a mattress in the higher budget range you are looking at.
I don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the forum list that are in reasonable driving distance is always a good idea before you visit any store anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the quality and durability of the materials in their mattresses (see this article), and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in testing in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.
There is also more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or the exchange/return options that are available to you).
There isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” value because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that are more or less important to different people that may be very different from someone else and because the “value” of a mattress purchase is always relative to the other finalists you are considering or to the other mattresses that are available to you in the area or online but in general terms I would agree with you that there are probably better quality/value mattresses available in the Toronto list.
If you are comfortable with an online purchase then some of the options that are listed in post #21 here may also be worth considering.
Thanks again. So I think I have to abandon the idea of purchasing the Natura Sleep Country mattress I described, even though at around $1450, it was the cheapest I could find that I still thought was quite comfortable when I slept on it, but perhaps that’s not saying much given Sleep Country’s selection. I am doing more research and work now, and today I looked through your list and called Dormio for starters. I had a nice long conversation with someone there, and he was quite helpful and patient with me. For my weight and brood figure, 200 lbs, brood shouldered and 5"11, and also a side sleeper due to the herniated discs, he recommended at least 10" of latex. He said I could do 8, but that would be the minimum and 6 inches would just be too little. He suggestion the Dormio Euro for 8" at $2000 (Shop | Dormio Organic Beds) or the better Dolce Vita for a 10" mattress at $2700 (Shop | Dormio Organic Beds). I will make more calls tomorrow and hopefully this week I will make it out to some places and check out their offerings/lie on them. But, of course, this is a different price range than what I was considering with the Natura bed. He also said that he wouldn’t recommend polyfoam and that they did only latex as the most durable and best material. Fair enough. Perhaps I should make the greater invest and have a mattress for life or for a few decades at least. Your thoughts would, of course, be appreciated.
I’ll write more after some more research and calls. Thanks as always - you’ve been wonderful as I try to raise myself from my ignorance and find something that will help with my pain and improve my health.
Dave
P,S. I just learned or think I learned that Sleeptek makes Dormio and Obasan? At least according to this: https://nowtoronto.com/lifestyle/ecoholic/sleep-on-it-the-mattress-guide/. I was going to look into Obasan more and also Soma. But they all seem to be the same company? I’m a but confused here I guess, as I thought at least Dormio was independent.
It’s good to see that you are taking the time to phone and talk to some of the options on the list before you visit them in person and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the list that are in reasonable driving distance is always a good idea before you visit any store anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the quality and durability of the materials in their mattresses (see this article), and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in testing in the budget range you are comfortable with and that have exchange or return policies that you are comfortable with and will save you a great deal of time and possible frustration. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.
Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the guidelines here … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses (see this article) are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice.
Latex hybrid mattresses can certainly make a good choice and depending on which type of “latex hybrid” you may be considering … there is more about all latex mattresses vs latex/polyfoam hybrids in post #2 here and there is also more about innerspring/latex hybrids vs all latex mattresses in post #13 here and the other posts it links to. Some people prefer latex hybrid mattresses to all latex mattresses either in terms of PPP or because their budget doesn’t allow for an all latex mattress but the best way to know which type of mattress you prefer is based on your own careful testing.
Obasan is a SleepTek brand name. SleepTek also makes some of the mattresses that Dormio sells but not all of them.
SleepTek is a manufacturer and Dormio and Soma are retailers and all of them are very different companies.
Thanks, Phoenix. I’m actually taking your advice, especially now that I have a little more time. And I’m listening to you about the hybrid beds, which I haven’t ruled out despite what he said. You’ve been most helpful and haven’t steered me wrong with all the wonderful information.
I’m wondering what you think about the specs for the beds given my specs and about the prices. I’m looking at some Obasan beds and the 8" ones are more expensive than the 11" Dormio I linked to. In fact, to get a Obasan that’s comparable in price, around $2500-2600 to the 2700 Dormio mattress, I’d have to go with a 6", which if the guy I spoke to today is right, is far too little support for me/my weight - he said I’d just sink to the core… I suppose I don’t know why the Obasan is so much more expensive for comparable thickness. Well, I guess, for example, price wise, this one https://www.somasleep.ca/product/173/ would compare to this one that I linked to earlier: Shop | Dormio Organic Beds. And the 8" from Dormio would be quite a bit cheaper: Shop | Dormio Organic Beds.
I see. Now I have them straight. I guess then the question is who makes Dormio’s other mattress, say the ones I linked to? Perhaps I should call back and ask. I just assumed they made all their own mattresses.
I would always keep in mind that the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
Comfort and PPP is always the most important part of the “value” of any mattress purchase because no matter what the quality of the materials or how durable a mattress may be … if you don’t sleep well on it then it would have little value to you regardless of the price.
I can’t speak to how any mattress will “feel” for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances … outside of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new).
Since all of the mattresses you linked are “all latex” mattresses … they would be closely comparable in terms of durability but they are all different designs so you would likely find that one of them will be a better “match” for you in terms of comfort and PPP than the others.
While the thickness of a mattress is only one of many factors in a mattress design that can make a difference in whether a mattress is a good “match for any particular person … there is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. While there are always exceptions … I would agree that based on “averages” a 6” latex mattress probably wouldn’t be a good “match” for most people in your weight range (although once again your own personal testing or experience is the only way to know for sure).
The name of their suppliers isn’t particularly relevant since a mattress is only as good as its design and the materials and components inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label and not all retailers are comfortable sharing the name of their suppliers for competitive reasons but if you ask them they will certainly be happy to provide you with any information that they are comfortable sharing.
Thanks again for your response. Much appreciated. So today I headed out, planning to visit both Dormio and Soma, but spent all the time I had set aside at Dormio. It was very useful and I think I narrowed things down to two mattresses, even though I tried about 7 or 8 of them, ranging from $2000 to over $5000. Interestingly, the ones I liked most were the ones I noted in my last post, namely, their Euro at $2000 (dormio.ca/product/dormio-euro-mattress/) and their Dolce Vita at $2700 (dormio.ca/product/dormio-dolce-vita-mattress/).
I will go to Soma tomorrow or Saturday and likely make my decision by the weekend. They thing is that I wasn’t sure which to pick, and I really need some input, if that’s possible, even though how I feel on it can’t be conveyed or repeated by anyone else. The difference really is the 2" of soft latex on the Dolce Vita. It felt more comfortable, but the salesman said that he saw my hips sink a little. Whereas on the Euro he said my alignment was perfect. I felt that too. The Euro was firmer and more supportive, but perhaps not as ‘lush’ or comfortable, not that the Euro wasn’t comfortable too. I don’t know whether to go with the firmer or the softer one. I can purchase the Euro and then get the pillow top for the DV for another $1000 or so later, if I need it, but that’s another $300+. Feeling and comfort are important, but given my back issues, perhaps it’s more important to have the best spinal alignment? I am thinking of having some pictures take of me/of my spine to show my physiotherapist on Wednesday, to see what she things.
I’m also curious what you think of the prices, given the materials in them, since there’s some objective metrics there. I found out both these beds are manufactured by Snug Sleep in BC. Finally, I should mention that I did try one more bed that also stuck with me, but it may be too soft, even though when I first got on it, it was like heaven, like lying on clouds. It was the Melrose (Shop | Dormio Organic Beds). It was on sale for $3400 down from something over $5000. But I think that just might be above my price range and not the most suitable bed.
I’m also worried after reading some of the things you linked to that I’m just choosing a firm mattress because I just think that firm is better. Then again, the Eruro at 4" firm and 4" medium was quite supportive and even the salesman said my spine looked perfect on that. Not an easy decision!
Oh, one final thing, now really, I mentioned in passing how I had come to this site and how you had been so helpful, and in addition to singing your praises, he also told me I’d get a 5% discount. Now bad!
I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether anyone else has the same criteria or circumstances or would make the same choice.
Again you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and with careful testing … your own body will provide the best guidance about which mattress is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP. Unfortunately nobody has a crystal ball that can predict which specific mattress you will sleep best on with any certainty based on specs or “theory at a distance” … it just doesn’t exist.
Careful and objective testing using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post will usually result in a mattress choice that is well inside the comfort/support range that is suitable for you (see post #10 here and post #4 here) but if you are testing two mattresses that both appear to be very suitable choices in terms of PPP … I would generally prioritize alignment over pressure relief and “comfort”.
“Support” is often misunderstood and many people believe incorrectly that “firmer is better” or “more supportive” when the real goal is to keep the spine in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more and some parts of the body to sink in less and this will vary on an individual basis. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “comfort/pressure relief” and “feel” and how they interact together.
The Dormio mattresses also have exchangeable layers so if in spite of “best efforts” on your and their parts you end up choosing a layering combination that isn’t quite right for you either in terms of comfort/pressure relief or support/alignment then you can also fine tune the mattress after a purchase by rearranging or exchanging layers so the risk of making an unsuitable choice is much lower.
While taking a picture of your alignment on each mattress and showing it to your Chiropractor would certainly be a good idea … especially if you are prone to lower back issues (which can often be aggravated by a mattress that is too soft) … I would also keep in mind that the ultimate test is whether you sleep well and “symptom free” on a mattress.
There isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” value because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that are more or less important to different people that may be very different from someone else and because the “value” of a mattress purchase is always relative to how they compare to the other finalists you are considering or to the other mattresses that are available to you in the area or online based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
The quality/value guidelines I linked in my earlier replies can help you make more meaningful comparisons between the relative “value” of each mattress you are considering. While it’s not really possible to be specific about value relative to mattress materials and construction because there are so many combinations and variables involved (and a mattress that would be good value for one person may not have good value at all for someone else that has different needs and preferences, lives in a different area, or that is considering different mattresses) … this article may give you some sense of the potential benefits of different budget ranges.
As far as what you “should” be spending there’s really no definitive answer to this but I would suggest as much as you can comfortably afford … within reason and within limits of course. You will find better quality and higher performance materials and components and more sophisticated and complex designs in higher budget ranges but once you reach about $3000 or so (in US dollars and in queen size mattress only or the equivalent in a king size which are generally about 15% to 25% more) then any realistic or meaningful performance benefits that go with higher prices than this may be minimal and there would need to be a compelling reason and obvious benefits for me to spend more than that (again in queen size). Even then I would make some very careful value comparisons with other mattresses that are available to you based on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you because it’s quite likely that you will be able to find a high quality mattress in a lower budget range than this that will work very well for you. While it’s not really possible to be too specific about value relative to mattress materials and construction because there are so many combinations and variables involved … this article may give you some sense of the budget ranges that may be worth considering.
Once you are down to a list of finalists and you are confident that they would all be a good match for you in terms of PPP (or you have good options after a purchase if you aren’t) and that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in any of them in terms of durability (which there aren’t) then you would be down to finalists that are comparing “good to good”. If there are no clear winners between them at this point (which is usually a good indication that you have done some very good research) then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely make a good quality/value choice and (post #2 here) can help you make a final choice based on your local testing or mattresses you have slept well on, your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about PPP and the suitability of each one, their prices, your preferences, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress or individual layers, any additional “value” extras that are part of each purchase, and on “informed best judgement” based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. Sometimes a final choice may even come down to very minor differences or can sometimes just be a matter of “gut feel” or “educated best judgement”.
One of the benefits of dealing with the manufacturers or retailers that have been invited to become members of this site is that they all provide a bonus or discount on their mattresses to the forum members that purchase a mattress from them (see here). Of course they can only do this if you let them know you are a forum member here. While 5% certainly isn’t “make or break” in terms of value … everything helps
Thank you. I understand and appreciate that I can be the only one who is able to determine what is best for me, especially in respect of feel. I guess given my broad shoulders, weight of about 195, and herniated discs in all three parts of my spine, I am not sure what will be best long term.
However, today I went to Soma and tried out some more beds. After speaking to someone there and reading the article on sleeping positions here, I realize that I can’t just get something that’s firm and the Euro from Dormio that is 4" firm and 4" medium might be too firm to allow my broad shoulders to sink. I’ll have to go try it again. Honestly, I really don’t want to spend more than that, I really shouldn’t and almost can’t. The Dolce Vita added a soft comfort layer of 2" and felt better and perhaps that’s better for me. I think perhaps best would be a zoned mattress, but I can’t afford to go into and above the $3K mark, which is where all of them seem to be, unless I’m mistaken, in which case I’d love some suggestions of mattresses that are zoned and in the $2-2.5K range.
I did try a few at Soma and I may go back, since I need more time there. This one stood out, I think (I need another chance to be sure): https://www.somasleep.ca/product/144/. I’d be curious to know what you think. It was $2300. It’s less latex overall, but perhaps more complex, etc., I’m not sure.
The difference between Dormio and Soma is that Soma allows you to exchange the mattress within 90 days or some time frame, whereas Domio allows you to switch out or change layers. That’s quite a bit different. Also, if I were to get the Euro or Dolce Vita from Dormio, as the salesman himself said, my options are limited in terms of what I can do with each 4" chunk, and I don’t think going from a medium to a soft will be an option as that would just be too soft for me. So I don’t I have as much options to change things around, especially if I don’t want to spend quite a bit more money.
I can certainly confirm that like the other mattresses you are considering this mattresses also uses high quality materials and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress. If you are confident that it’s a good “match” for you in terms of comfort and PPP and that you will sleep well on it and it also compares well to the other mattresses you are looking at based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you then it would certainly be well worth considering.
As I mentioned in a previous reply …
You have many other options available in the general Toronto area and many of them are in lower budget ranges than you are looking at but you will need to check their websites or talk with them on the phone to find out which ones carry mattresses that fit your criteria that you would be interested in testing.
I would keep in mind that any exchange options are built in to the cost of a mattress and a retailer that allows a mattress exchange rather than just a layer exchange will need to build the higher costs involved into the price of their mattresses because the majority of people who don’t return a mattress or exchange a layer are the ones who pay for the minority that do.
For the majority of people … with careful testing (using the guidelines in the tutorial) their choice will generally be “close enough” that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper (if their mattress is too firm) or a layer exchange (see post #4 here and post #10 here).
I hope you’re well. I’m writing with an update. I ended up buying the Dolce Vita from Dormio at a discounted price that I could afford. It has yet to arrive, and won’t for another few weeks, but I think I made a good purchase. He even gave me the 5% for mentioning this forum, even though he had discounted the price a few hundred dollars already. The owner (I believe), John, was just a pleasure to deal with, and so far I’m quite happy. I can’t wait to get the mattress (and foundation and frame) and get sleeping on it. Of course, I also wanted to come back and to thank you for your help during all this. I couldn’t have done it without you and this forum. Just wonderful!
Thanks for letting us know what you ended up deciding and sharing your comments and feedback about your experience with Dormio and John (who is the owner) … I appreciate it.
I think you did some good research and ended up making a great quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Thank you for the kind words, and, again, for all your help. I thought I’d write with an update, that I at least owed that much, considering how helpful you and this site were in my making my decision.
So it took some time for the mattress to arrive, more time than I was told, as there was a mistake or mix up, or something. But John did extremely well to make this up to me with the other things I needed and a rush delivery when it did finally arrive. He was really great.
Now, I’ve been sleeping on the bed for a few weeks and I must say it’s wonderful. It’s actually perfect. The first few nights were strange and amazing, and now it has become routine. It offers such a lush and comfortable sleep that I can’t imagine sleeping on anything else. Not that I didn’t before, but I truly look forward to sleep now. Perhaps it’s more accurate to say that I look forward to sleep on that particular mattress. My body pain all over has been reduced, and when I awake in the middle of the night I fall back asleep again much more quickly. I don’t know what else to say, but if people have questions, I’m happy to answer whatever I can. But it should be clear that I’m quite happy with my purchase.
Thank you immensely once again for all your help with this important and highly successful purchase.
Thanks for taking the time to share an update with your comments and feedback … I appreciate it!
It’s great to hear that your choice worked out so well for you and now that you are past the initial break in and adjustment period you can expect to be sleeping well for many more years
I just want to add Ton Furniture in the GTA has been exceptional, I’m very happy with my mattress which I bought from Andy.
I’m not going to write up a review but I’d highly recommend Ton Furniture to anyone who lives in and around the GTA looking for high quality mattresses at extremely reasonable prices, just give Andy a call and setup an appointment to look at their mattress selections at the Dreamstar Bedding warehouse.
Wow. What a wealth of knowledge this place is. I really appreciate you taking the time to compile that list. I was just gonna get a Lucid 10" but stumbled upon this site and got lost in it. I don’t really want to spend more than $500 so I’ve been looking at Lucid, Linenspa Gel and Classic Brands. Based on what I’ve learned here they all use 3lb foam with the Classic issuing 4 lb. It would appear attaining 4lb under $500 is difficult.
Yes you’re right that it’s much more difficult to find good quality mattresses that sell for under $500 (in queen size). There is more about different budget ranges in this article.
You can see some comments about this mattress in this topic and there are some red flags here that would make me cautious and I would follow the suggestions in post #6 in the topic (checking the law tag and checking with the manufacturer) before considering it for a purchase.
