Thanks for your great site. I’ve been using it on and off for months prior to doing actual mattress shopping. Some quick personal info – 62 year old female, 5’ 5", 210lbs, some arthritis everywhere, with a rotator cuff problem that makes my shoulders a particular pressure point. I like the softness of memory foam, but want to stay away from it because of chemical content and durability problems. I would like to use as many natural components in my mattress as my budget will permit.
Two days ago I made the trip from Harrisburg to Pottstown to the Magic Sleeper showroom and spent 3 hours with Marco who was extremely knowledgeable, helpful, and patient. I was particularly interested in the latex mattresses but found that the all latex were out of my price range and, much to my surprise, I preferred the feeling of a combo innerspring and latex mattress. My favorite was their Amish-made Forever Plush which uses an innerspring (they advertise it as the best on the market) with 2 inches of 19 ILD Mountaintop latex on top and bottom with 1.5" polyfoam quilted covers, making it reversible. It comes with a lifetime warrantee. The price is $999 which is a stretch for me, even though I know it’s a reasonable price for what it is. I will pay it if I have to, but would really like to find a less expensive solution.
Marco suggested a less expensive, but well-made basic mattress with an added 1.5" organic cotton and wool mattress topper. The topper felt like a cloud and was luxuriously soft, but I had concerns about its suitability for a major comfort layer component for someone of my size and because I sleep on both sides and my stomach.
I wish I had thought of it while I was there so I could have tested it, but it occurred to me the next day that a variant on that idea might work. That is a basic mattress using the same innerspring as the Forever Plush with a 2" 19 ILD latex topper. It would still be reversible but I’d only be paying for 1 layer of latex. I would, however, be losing the 1.5" of polyfoam in the quilting. The organic cotton/wool topper would be an option except that it costs $240 which puts the total back up there again. Then it occurred to me that I could make a similar version myself. I found large 3" 100% wool batting available for quilting at a very reasonable price on the internet and I can easily do a simple cotton knit casing with yard goods or maybe even better, a large cotton knit sheet. Then it’s a simple matter of tacking/tying the layers together to prevent slipping.
I would also like to eliminate the box spring and use a platform instead. The poplar platform frame at Magic Sleeper is very nice looking and sturdy although I don’t think there’s any flex in it.
So, here I am to ask for any thoughts you might have about my solution and whether a platform would be an appropriate foundation.
You certainly aren’t alone in this and there are many others whose favorite type of mattress is an innerspring/latex hybrid (see post #6 here and post #13 here). Your mattress also has the benefit of being two sided which will add to its durability as well (see post #3 here for more about the pros and cons of two sided mattresses).
I’m not sure of the specifics of this mattress but if your testing indicates it is a good match for you in terms of PPP then I would pay more attention to your own testing than any “theory” as long as all the materials in the sleeping system are good quality. Both cotton and wool are high quality and durable materials and are suitable for higher body weights although to some degree they will tend to become a little firmer as they compress over time.
I would be very cautious with this unless you can test it in person because the quilting components will be a significant part of the feel and performance of the mattress. I would personally lean towards what you know works well for you than making changes that are unpredictable or uncertain. There is more about the effect of quilting layers in post #12 here and the posts it links to. Because every layer and component of a mattress will have some effect on every other layer (including the cover and quilting in a mattress) the effect of making what to some may seem to be “small” changes to the design of a mattress can have a surprisingly significant effect on the feel and performance of a mattress.
If you are comfortable with some trial and error and with the likelihood that your topper may turn out to be different from the cotton wool topper you are considering then it can certainly be rewarding to make something yourself but I would make sure that you have realistic expectations about whether it will feel or perform the same way because of the differences in the materials and all the other variables that are involved in wool toppers (see post #6 here). IMO … the “best” approach for a DIY mattress or a more complex component (such as a wool topper) is a “spirit of adventure” where your experiences and the satisfaction that comes from the DIY process itself and what you learn along the way are more important than any cost savings which may or may not happen … depending on how your DIY design works out for you in “real life”.
If you tested the mattress on a rigid non flexing foundation (a box spring has springs that flex under the mattress while a foundation has no flex) and this is what they recommend for this specific mattress then any suitable support surface that also has no flex and provides even support under the mattress would also be a suitable choice that would “feel” the same or very similar but in general a manufacturer themselves would know more about the type of support system that would be suitable for any of their mattresses (and would meet the warranty criteria).
Thanks so much for the prompt and detailed response. It was just the reality check I needed. I can see now that there are just too many unknown variables to make any choice other than one based on what I actually tested. If Magic Sleeper were closer, I’d make another trip to try out some other combinations, but it’s not, so I think I will probably just bite the financial bullet and buy what was the most comfortable mattress I’ve tried, the Forever Plus. I suppose that this is the downside of shopping far from home. Be forewarned, fellow shoppers! I will try to convince myself that the extra cost will be meaningless over the life of a well-made, comfortable mattress.
I wish that there was as much in depth and truly useful information about other consumer goods available online as you provide in The Mattress Underground. Unlike so many purchases that I make that are half blind despite my efforts at research, I know that my mattress purchase will be a well-informed one. This is truly an amazing site and you are incredibly generous with your time and knowledge. Thanks again and best wishes!
I think that when you look back at a successful mattress purchase years down the road you will remember much more about how well you slept and for how long you slept well than you will about the price you paid and relatively small differences in cost spread out over the years of ownership will be much less important. In the end these are the two most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase.
I’m glad that the site could help you and thanks for the kind words … I appreciate them!
Assuming that you decide to pull the trigger … congratulations on your new mattress
I hope you have the chance to share your feedback once you’ve received it and had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
I mentioned earlier that I was considering replacing my box spring with a platform foundation. They assured me at Magic Sleeper that it was an appropriate foundation for the Forever Plush, the mattress that I liked. After your last reply, I disassembled my bed to take a look at the box spring to see what condition it was in prior to ordering the new Forever Plush mattress.
In the process of removing the long-past-it’s-prime memory foam topper, I took a look at my current mattress and realized that, much to my surprise, it’s really in pretty good shape. It is 9 years old but has had the 3" topper on it almost the entire time because it is too firm for me and this seems to have protected it to a large degree.
So, now I’m thinking of another possibility, keeping your advice in mind. Plan C is to keep my current mattress which is a SleepLogic Refresh firm, put 2" of the same latex as is in the Forever Plush on top of the mattress, and put on top of the latex another topper of the same quilted poly cover that is on the Forever Plush. So, the comfort layer would be identical to the Forever Plush. The differences would be the mattress/innerspring and the fact that the latex and poly quilt layer would only be on the top, not on the bottom as in the two-sided Forever Plush.
As I write this, I’m already pretty sure that your response will be that those differences could be enough to significantly affect the feel of my Plan C as compared to the Forever Plush, but I can’t help myself! I feel like I need to consider all the possibilities before I commit to spending $1000 on a mattress.
If you have any other suggestions, I would be very happy to hear them.
[quote]So, now I’m thinking of another possibility, keeping your advice in mind. Plan C is to keep my current mattress which is a SleepLogic Refresh firm, put 2" of the same latex as is in the Forever Plush on top of the mattress, and put on top of the latex another topper of the same quilted poly cover that is on the Forever Plush. So, the comfort layer would be identical to the Forever Plush. The differences would be the mattress/innerspring and the fact that the latex and poly quilt layer would only be on the top, not on the bottom as in the two-sided Forever Plush.
As I write this, I’m already pretty sure that your response will be that those differences could be enough to significantly affect the feel of my Plan C as compared to the Forever Plush, but I can’t help myself! I feel like I need to consider all the possibilities before I commit to spending $1000 on a mattress.
If you have any other suggestions, I would be very happy to hear them.[/quote]
If your current mattress is in relatively new condition and there is no sagging or soft spots across the sleeping surface (either virtual that you would feel when you sleep on it or visible that you could see when you aren’t on the mattress) and the only issue is that you need some additional softness then a topper can be a good solution and post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to can help you choose a topper that would have the best chance of being a suitable choice on your current mattress.
I would keep in mind that all the layers and components of a sleeping system will affect every other layer so the same topper can feel different on one mattress than it will on another (depending on the mattress) and a topper can also feel different when it is inside the cover and is part of the mattress itself than it does when it is used as a separate topper (see posts #3 and #4 here and this topic).
It probably wouldn’t be identical because of the differences between the quilting materials and the quilting pattern and possible differences between the latex as well (you may not be able to find the same type and blend of latex in a 2" layer) not to mention the differences that you may feel because of the differences between the materials and components that would be underneath your toppers. The only way to know how close you came would be based on your actual sleeping experience.
If you are considering a topper and your original mattress/topper combination worked well for you and your needs and preferences haven’t changed over the past 9 years then it may be worth considering a new topper that is as close as possible to the one you were using unless you think that a different type of topper would be a better “match” for you.
After reading your reply and spending hours considering various toppers, online, on the phone, and 1 actual in-store test, I decided to take another look at my mattress, paying particular attention to the non-visible condition. Sure enough, when I pressed on the areas below my shoulders and hips, the mattress depressed noticeably more than surrounding areas. So, scratch the old mattress and new topper plan. Thanks for gently leading me to the light!
I called Magic Sleeper today and ordered the Forever Plush mattress. I’m comfortable with the durability of the innerspring and the latex layers… The polyfoam in the 1.5" quilting is American-made and 1.8#. I would be happier if it were 2# because of my heavier weight, but since this mattress has a lifetime warrantee and John has assured me that they can easily replace the quilting layers with a 1-day up and back to the factory, I’m satisfied. Magic Sleeper is really a pleasure to deal with.
These past several weeks of mattress shopping have been interesting but physically and mentally tiring. I marvel at some of your posters who have been looking for months. My hat is off to them!
Thanks again for all your great advice both directly to me and on the numerous detailed links throughout the website. I’ll post again after I’ve received the mattress and had a chance to test drive it.
I’m glad to see that you checked this because it can be very frustrating to buy a topper only to find out that foam softening in the mattress underneath it is the real source of the issues you are trying to correct and a topper would only be a partial or temporary solution.
The quilting will precompress the polyfoam which adds to its durability and since it’s only 1.5" thick I wouldn’t consider this to be a weak link … even with higher weights. Having said that … it’s always nice to know that it can be replaced and this is one of the advantages of dealing with a local manufacturer.
Most importantly though … congratulations on your new mattress
I’m looking forward to your feedback when you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it.
It’s been around 4 months since my mattress arrived and I wanted to check in with some feedback. My mattress arrived in the middle of a torrential downpour but the delivery guys from Magic Sleeper got it in the house all nice and dry and assembled the platform that I’d also bought. My initial impression of the mattress was that it felt firmer than I remembered in the showroom which seems to be a frequent occurrence based on many postings on the site. I slept on it for about a week and found it to be uncomfortably firm. I checked the tag on the mattress to see if there was any chance that I’d received the Forever Firm mattress rather than the Forever Plush but found only a model number that didn’t correspond to any number I’d seen so I called Magic Sleeper. They told me that the same model number appeared on both the Forever Firm and Forever Plush mattresses but the individual designation was written on the plastic wrapping that had been on the mattress. Luckily I still had the plastic and it did indeed indicate that it was a Forever Plush, so that wasn’t the problem. I spoke with Christine who told me that it usually takes several weeks to become accustomed to a new mattress and suggested giving it 2 more weeks. That seems reasonable, so I complied. After nearly 3 weeks more, I was still not sleeping well, waking up frequently to change positions because of discomfort in pressure points.
I called Magic Sleeper and spoke with Marco, explaining the situation. He promised to give it some thought and come up with a solution and call me back. He called back probably an hour later and said that if I’d lived closer, they would have tried a different mattress but since I lived at such a distance, they were going to send me an organic cotton and wool mattress topper which should give me the softness that I needed. I had tried this topper when I was at the showroom and loved it. It arrived several weeks later and from the first time I slept on it, it was absolutely perfect. I LOVE this topper. It has all the softness of memory foam but I don’t get “stuck” in it the way I did with my foam topper, having to practically claw my way out of bed.
So, at last, I am a happy camper and can recommend Magic Sleeper without reservation.
