I have read and re-read posts here including all the tips for buying mattress,
I have L3-L5 lower discs that pop in and out of compression, and two severed ribs (R7 and R8) from a car accident. It has taken me years to find a mattress that didn’t leave me in pain or at the worse end paralyzed from waist down… I am not kidding about the paralysis from a mattress either - it was too soft that my hips sank and my discs twisted and wahla paralyzed…
The 21st Century Englander Tension Ease king size was my saving grace. The store we purchased from is no longer around. I have searched all over the internet to find the material specs for this mattress to get a new one like it. Nothing. Does anyone know a store that sells this mattress near Middle GA or a similar mattress to this one or a similar memory foam or latex?
I know/read all the info about each person differences and how to test in store - can’t do that. I also know I should know the specs of what works to be able to search online - I can’t find the specs. Their website only states "THE TENSION EASE® ORTHOPEDIC MATTRESS IS SPECIALLY DESIGNED TO ALLOW YOU TO SLEEP BETTER WITH INNOVATIVE FEATURES THAT ENSURE A STRESS-FREE SLEEPING EXPERIENCE EVERY TIME.
NO MOTION TRANSFER Contains the body movements of you and your partner for motionless, undisturbed sleep. GEL INFUSED MEMORY FOAM Permanently bonded gel to memory foam for cooling comfort and support. LUXURIOUS BREATHABLE FABRIC Mattresses are covered in breathable fabric. INDIVIDUALLY ENCASED COILS Individual fabric-encased coils contour and adjust to the body’s unique shape and weight for conforming comfort and support. EDGE-TO-EDGE SLEEPING COMFORT Douflex® edge support coils provide maximum sleeping surface. MORE RESTFUL SLEEP — STRESS-FREE SLEEP Patented posturized coils combine with gel infused memory foam to relieve pressure points for sounder, pressure-free sleep.
MADE IN THE USA
please help the mattress is getting indentations in it which will soon lead to trouble for me.
Englander has a list of their regional licensees on their webpage here so the most reliable way to find out whether there are any stores near you that sell the same mattress as you currently own would be to email the licensee that services your state. I know that http://www.phillipsfurnitureinc.com/ says they carry Englander on their website so they may be worth talking to and if your mattress is still available they should be able to order it.
Hopefully your mattress is still available but if for some reason it’s not possible to order the same mattress then there is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” another one in post #9 here but it’s very unlikely (I would say it’s closer to impossible) that you will find another mattress that has exactly the same type and combination of materials and components with the same thicknesses and firmness levels as your current mattress and other than matching every layer and component in a mattress the only way to know whether any other mattress that has a different combination of materials and components and a different design would “feel” similar to you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) would be based on your own personal testing or sleeping experience. I would also keep in mind that different people can have very different opinions about how closely two mattresses with differences in their designs and components compare to each other because body type, sleeping positions, and individual sensitivities can also play a significant role in how two mattresses will compare for any specific person.
Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and specs and different layering combinations and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you (which would only be a very small percentage of people) … I would tend to avoid using individual specs such as layer thicknesses or ILD numbers or other complex combinations of specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you and focus more on your own actual testing and/or personal experience. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs that you don’t fully understand then the most common outcome is information overload and “paralysis by analysis”. Choosing a mattress based on specs would be among the least reliable ways to choose a suitable mattress.
If for some reason your mattress isn’t available then there is more about the different ways to choose another suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP in post #2 here that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for once you actually sleep on your mattress.
When you can’t test mattresses in person then you would be limited to online options and once you have decided which types or categories of mattresses that you are most interested in (which would be a preference choice that only you can decide … see this article) the most reliable source of guidance about whether an online mattress would be a reasonable option for you is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, any special considerations you may have, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs or firmness options to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or even to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.
In very general terms your mattress is a memory foam/pocket coil hybrid which are not as widely available through online manufacturers or retailers. I would also keep in mind that while some mattresses in this category may work well for you (even if they are different from your current mattress) that others that are in the same category that have different designs or firmness levels may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on because every mattress category includes a very wide range of different mattresses with different designs and firmness levels.
If I was in your shoes and your current mattress isn’t available for you to purchase and I couldn’t test a mattress in person then the return or refund policy of the online retailer or manufacturer I was dealing with would become a much more important part of my personal value equation so that you can test a mattress in your bedroom rather than a showroom with little risk. I would also keep in mind that there may also be other mattresses that are in different categories that may also work well for you (possibly with memory foam comfort layers which you seem to prefer) and as long as you have a good return/exchange policy then at least there would be little risk in trying them.
I don’t know how long you have owned your current mattress but I would also keep in mind that if you replace your current mattress with the same mattress that it would be very similar in terms of durability and the useful life of the mattress so if you have only had your mattress for a short period of time and it’s already starting to soften and break down and lose the comfort and support that was the reason you purchased it then it most likely contains lower quality/density materials in the comfort layers in which case it may also be worth considering a different mattress that uses higher quality and more durable materials so that you aren’t back in the same position as you are now in a relatively short period of time.
If your current mattress isn’t available or if you have only owned it for a very short period of time and it’s important to you that your next purchase is more durable then there is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).
The tutorial post also includes several links to lists of some of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step).
I wish I could provide more specific help and I know it may not be what you want to hear but as you probably know from reading the tutorial you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
The “bottom line” is that the three options you have come down to …
Buying the same mattress if it’s still available (which would have about the same durability and useful life as your current mattress).
Testing other mattresses locally and making a local purchase (which you mentioned isn’t possible for you).
Making an online purchase with a good exchange/return policy so that you can test it in your bedroom instead of a showroom with little risk.
Phoenix
PS: If you are able to do some local testing then some of the better “possibilities” I’m aware of (out of about 30 stores in the area I looked at a few months ago) in and around the Macon area which would include Warner Robins, GA (always subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I linked earlier and that they are transparent about the materials in their mattresses) and the manufacturers they carry that I would focus on (which are the ones where your odds of being able to find out the type and quality of the materials in a mattress you are considering are higher) include …
http://www.roomstogo.com/stores/macon/macon-store/1802 Macon, GA. Therapedic (their website lists a memory foam/pocket coil hybrid). I would be very cautious here that they don’t “steer” you towards the major brands they also carry that I would avoid.
It’s always a good idea to call first before visiting any retailer or manufacturer so you can get some sense of the types of mattresses they have available and whether they fit your general criteria for mattresses that you are interested in testing along with the type of knowledge, service, and transparency that you can expect when you go there and then you can decide who to visit based on the results of your initial phone conversations.
Thanks for your quick response Phoenix. I had read all your suggested posts before posting my question. I also had contacted the company via the info provided on their website with no response as yet which is why I turned here after reading your posts.
As it is risky for me to physically try out mattresses, and after I read your response Post #2 I was hoping for a similar recommendation from you as you seem to be well-informed and have experience with such a vast array of different persons via this site. Or at least you could narrow it down from your response Post #12 .
My second option was that maybe someone had slept on this brand/type mattress and could recommend a similar mattress based upon their experience. If you’ve slept on it, you know how it feels and what I am looking for in comparison. This would alleviate the need for my individual PPP as what someone else feels with this particular mattress would be what I would need regardless. Therefore because I do know the feel of what I need, if someone else has slept on that same brand/model what they feel could be used to determine the same feel for another brand/model. This way others can refer other brands/models without needing that person to go test for themselves. If I love Burger King whoppers and you have eaten one regardless of whether you liked it or not, you could then say if the Mcdonald’s Big Mac was similar or not.
Edit - Thanks Phoenix for your additional response. Out of your list I will contact www.phillipsfurnitureinc.com/ as I have not heard of them. The rest have very poor customer service from my previous mattress hunt(at least the locations I visited) and were geared towards sales of $$ versus quality or need of customer.
As additional info, the mattress I have is 7 years old so I believe it has lasted well. I am the true princess and the pea type and feel any small minute change that no one ever notices. Most mattresses even prior to my accident would last me only a year or two before I would be on the search for a new one regardless of cost.
Unfortunately it’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for someone else either for a mattress, a manufacturer/retailer, or a combination of materials or type of mattress because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or if you can’t test a mattress in person then your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress or combination of materials is the best match for you based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. Unfortunately there is nothing that can replace your own personal testing or experience with any certainty in terms of finding out which mattress is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP and I would be very skeptical of anyone who claims that they have some kind of crystal ball that can tell you which specific mattress will work best for you.
As I mentioned in my previous reply if you can’t test a mattress in person then your best source of guidance and your highest odds of success will always be a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer who is more familiar with matching the different mattresses they have available with different body types, sleeping styles, and individual circumstances and preferences than anyone else.
While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be helpful … I would be very cautious about about using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (see post #13 here).
There are also no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness as well and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.
Mattresses are not the same as hamburgers and I would also avoid brand shopping because you are buying a specific mattress not the brand and all manufacturers have access to the same or similar components and materials. Most of the more heavily advertised and most commonly available brands that you would probably recognize are the ones I would tend to avoid anyway and many of the better manufacturers are smaller and are only available locally or regionally (or online). The name of the manufacturer on the label also won’t tell you anything about whether a specific mattress would be a suitable choice for you in terms of PPP or whether there are any lower quality materials or weak links in the design that would affect the durability and useful life of the mattress. There is more about the risks of brand shopping in post #5 here and post #12 here. Outside of making sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (or that you have good options after a purchase if it isn’t or if you aren’t sure) … in terms of assessing the quality and durability of a mattress I would focus much more on the type and quality/durability of the materials inside a mattress than I would on the name of the manufacturer on the label (see the quality/durability guidelines in post #4 here).
I hope that Englander still has the same mattress available after 7 years and that they can order it for you. Unfortunately your experience with poor customer service and lack of knowledge is very common in the industry and most of the members here that have spent more than a couple of hours on this site will know more meaningful information about mattresses and mattress materials than most of the salespeople in the mainstream industry.
When it comes to something as personal as a mattress … outside of purchasing the same mattress again that you already know works well for you there really are no shortcuts.
First off, I really do appreciate all your knowledge and thank you for responding. The more I read through the site information and your posts to my question, I become more confused. As an example, the website here states - [quote]The only way to truly know the quality of any mattress is to know the construction, materials and components, that are inside it … [/quote] But when I asked for assistance that I couldn’t find the material specs for the mattress I currently own, your response was to disregard them - [quote] #2Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and specs and different layering combinations and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you (which would only be a very small percentage of people) … I would tend to avoid using individual specs such as layer thicknesses or ILD numbers or other complex combinations of specifications[/quote]
I know the mattress I have does/did work for me. I know it has individually encased coils for the support core, memory foam for the comfort layer, and Douflex edge support coils. Going by the articles on this website here my first objective is the two basic of any mattress - pressure relief and spinal alignment suitable for my height, weight, body shape, and sleeping positions. I am 5’8 at 180lbs, pear shaped, and mostly a side edge sleeper; my husband is 6’, 180lbs, and mostly a stomach and back sleeper. But I get confused reading the article and your responses in that the article states - [quote]No matter what your own unique body shape, sleeping positions, and circumstances may be, the two basic functions of every mattress are to relieve pressure on the pressure points of the body and to keep your spine and joints in their natural alignment in all your sleeping positions. [/quote] So why is this part not standard? This should be a standard regardless of the person’s height, weight, body shape, and sleeping positions as stated. All personal preferences aside. Let’s talk basics - what is the basic need of a mattress to provide these two basic functions?
The second priority is the specs of the mattress. My problem 1st is not knowing my current mattress full specs, and 2nd having contacted now every mattress store in a 40mile radius no one on the phone will state they can provide me the specs for their mattresses - all tell me to come in and try them out or refer me to their product website which has little information, then I call the manufacturer of the website and they tell me the store has to get the specs from their sales rep… Your responses in stating [quote] the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress[/quote] seems much similar to the store reps saying come in and try it out, and go against the articles [quote]even those that use lower quality and less expensive materials … can feel great in the highly managed environment of a mattress showroom.[/quote]. Should I first determine the two basics of every mattress I need and the required make-up (core) of the mattress? or should I disregard the articles here and just go in and feel the mattresses?
I seem to be in an endless circle here where I need to know the specs of my current mattress to have a starting point for the two basic function of any mattress that will fit my height, weight, body shape, and sleeping positions. By knowing the little I do about my mattress, I would state that I need individually wrapped pocket coils as a core and a comfort layer of thin gel-infused memory foam of 5lb per cu.ft encased with edge support coils. I am trying to narrow down what I need before feeling the mattress. I am not at all concerned with personal preferences but only the pressure points and proper spinal alignment that will adjust as I move - turn over from side sleep to back, etc.
This is where I am requesting assistance. I had hoped due to your vast experience with individuals and mattress components you would be able to guide me in the art and science of mattress construction. In just the two basic areas, do you have any recommended combinations for core/comfort layer? If not, then do you have any recommendations for online reps who are experts in both mattress materials and providing guidance to their customers that will discuss the issues with me?
There are three parts to assessing the “value” of a mattress purchase that are independent from each other.
The first is “comfort” and PPP (how well you will sleep on the mattress) and this is the part that requires your own personal testing or sleeping experience. This is the part that only you can “feel”.
The second is the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress (how long you will sleep well). This is the part that you can’t feel because lower quality and less durable materials can feel exactly the same as higher quality and more durable materials … they just don’t maintain their comfort and/or support for nearly as long and the loss of comfort and support isn’t covered by mattress warranties (see post #174 here).
The third is how a mattress compares to the other options you are considering based on the combination of #1 and #2 along with all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have after a purchase).
The specs you need to know to assess the quality and durability of a mattress are listed in this article because these are the ones that can affect the durability and useful life of the mattress. These are “quality specs” and are important to know.
Specs such as ILD or other specifications that affect the firmness or feel of the mattress are “comfort specs” and these are the ones that are not important to know because your body will tell you what you need to know about whether a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort and PPP and complex combinations of “comfort specs” are much to complex to use as the basis for deciding whether a mattress will be suitable for you to sleep on.
I’m not quite sure what you are asking here but Posture and alignment and Pressure relief are the two of the three "P’s in PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and this is the part that only you can “feel” that you need to assess based on your own careful testing or if that’s not possible by actually sleeping on the mattress. There are too many individual and unique differences in people’s body type, weight distribution, sleeping positions, health situations, sensitivities, and physiology for anyone to be able to predict with any certainty which combination of materials or which type of mattress will work best for you. Only you can feel what you feel on a mattress or know how well you sleep on it and how you feel in the morning when you wake up. Good testing is the most reliable way to predict this but if you can’t test mattresses in person then you would need a conversation on the phone with a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer who will do their best to help you decide which of the mattresses they sell would have the highest chance of success but once again they only go by “averages” and the information you provide them so your actual sleeping experience will be the only way to confirm whether your “best efforts” and their guidance were “close enough” that you end up sleeping well and “symptom free” on the mattress you chose because not everyone fits inside the “averages”.
Outside of PPP … the second priority is the quality/durability specs that affect the durability and useful life of the mattress … NOT all the specs. If you can’t find out the quality/durability specs you need I wouldn’t buy the mattress because there would be very little value in buying a mattress that works well for you or even feels “amazing” when it is new and for a few months or even for just a few years before the lower quality materials soften and break down prematurely and you lose the comfort and support that is the reason that you purchased the mattress and you are no longer sleeping well on the mattress and need to buy a new one.
This is one of the reasons that dealing with a retailer or manufacturer that is knowledgeable and transparent about the type and quality of the materials in the mattresses they sell can be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase and unfortunately not all areas of the country have knowledgeable and transparent retailers. Sometimes you may need to “push” them to find out the specs you need to know and sometimes they won’t even then because even though it’s their responsibility to provide you with the information you need to know to the best of their ability … they are often just commissioned salespeople that are only interested in “:selling” you anything you are willing to buy and they have little knowledge about mattresses or the materials inside them outside of the “marketing stories” that have little importance.
As you can see in this article one of the reasons that I would avoid most of the largest manufacturers completely even though they dominate the industry and the top 5 manufacturers alone control about 3/4 of the market share in the industry (see here and here) is because they don’t generally provide the specs you need to make an informed choice even to the retailers that want them to be able to provide them to their customers and in almost all cases if you somehow are successful in finding out the quality specs they will only verify that they are using low quality materials that would be a weak link in the mattress anyway.
[quote]I seem to be in an endless circle here where I need to know the specs of my current mattress to have a starting point for the two basic function of any mattress that will fit my height, weight, body shape, and sleeping positions. By knowing the little I do about my mattress, I would state that I need individually wrapped pocket coils as a core and a comfort layer of thin gel-infused memory foam of 5lb per cu.ft encased with edge support coils. I am trying to narrow down what I need before feeling the mattress. I am not at all concerned with personal preferences but only the pressure points and proper spinal alignment that will adjust as I move - turn over from side sleep to back, etc.
This is where I am requesting assistance.[/quote]
Without knowing the ALL the specs of your current mattress you won’t be able to duplicate it (and not just the few specs we’ve been discussing) and if you can’t purchase the same mattress then the only way to know whether another mattress will “feel” the same to you or provide similar comfort/pressure relief, and support/alignment will be based on your own personal experience.
In other words … if you can’t buy the same mattress then I wouldn’t try and duplicate it based on specs because you won’t be able to.
Your best chance of success is to follow each of the steps in the tutorial one at a time and not to focus on information and specs that either wouldn’t be relevant or helpful or that you won’t be able to find out anyway.
I think that your first step is to fully realize and accept that if you can’t buy the same mattress again then you won’t be able to duplicate it based on specs and you will need to find another mattress that is just as suitable for you to sleep on regardless of the materials inside it and that also uses good quality materials that won’t soften and break down prematurely.
The next step would be to decide on the types of mattresses or materials that you are most interested in including in your research (see this article)… Since it seems that the mattress you did best with includes at least some memory foam in the comfort layers it would make sense to focus on mattresses that also have some memory foam in the comfort layers for your next mattress as well (unless you have also slept well on other types of mattresses that you are familiar with).
Then the next step is to either do some local testing (after you have checked their websites and made some initial calls to confirm that any local stores carry the types of mattresses you are interested in testing and can provide you with the information you need to make an informed choice) or if you aren’t able to test mattresses locally such as in your case then to begin the process of looking at online websites and talking with knowledgeable and experienced online manufacturers that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in. In this case since you won’t be able to know for certain whether the mattress you purchase will work well for you in “real life” until you sleep on it I would also make sure that you are comfortable with the options you have after a purchase to either make changes to your mattress or to exchange or return it and the cost involved just in case your choice doesn’t work out as well as you hoped for and in spite of everyone’s “best efforts” you don’s sleep well on the mattress you ended up choosing.
I think we were posting at the same time and I didn’t notice your last reply until just now.
While I can’t speak to which combination of materials will be the best match for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP or which one you would sleep best on … I can certainly make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials in each of them based on the quality/durability guidelines here.
These are all good quality materials that would be suitable for your weight range and there are no lower quality and less durable materials or weak links in this mattress.
Same comments here in terms of durability although I would want to know the density of the base foam and I would also confirm that the top layer was memory foam rather than polyfoam. I would also want to know the density of the memory foam (if that’s what it is) although the thickness of thetop layer wouldn’t be enough to be a weak link in the mattress even if the memory foam was lower density than the guidelines would normally suggest. This would have a different “feel” from the previous mattresses because it uses latex in the middle layer underneath the memory foam (if it is) which is close enough to the surface that you would feel the difference between the more resilient latex transition layer and the less resilient memory foam that is in the same position in the previous mattresses. There is more about the general pros and cons and differences between latex and memory foam in post #2 here.
Same comments here in terms of durability. This mattress has the latex even closer to the surface so the “surface feel” would be more resilient (springy) but because the layer is thinner you would also feel some of the slower response and “sinking in” feel from the memory foam underneath it.
It would be reasonable to expect that any of these mattresses that are inside the comfort/support range that is suitable for you and aren’t either too soft or “on the edge” of being too soft (see post #2 here) would maintain their comfort/support for 7 - 10 years and from a durability perspective would be well worth considering.
While it doesn’t have any lower quality materials or weak links so I wouldn’t exclude it as an option … option #3 would probably be the least durable of these 5 choices because it uses 4" of 4 lb memory foam rather the thinner layers of 4 lb memory foam in combination with higher density 5 lb memory foam or latex which would both be more durable materials.
Thank you Phoenix Knowing the information you have provided me with now, I will have my husband go feel the mattresses near me that will hopefully be similar to these online ones. As no one I called could or would give me their specs for density etc of materials used or even the materials used over the phone, I will see if he can bring the list with him to try to compare similar mattresses. I don’t feel like I sink in with our current mattress so I hope we can find a comparable mattress to #5. I have slept on plush memory foam topped mattresses and did not like them - the sinking in feeling. As he sleeps on the same mattress I am hoping he will know what to look for and I will ask him to stay on each for 15 mins to test the feel. Then hopefully I will be able to determine which to purchase online. You just don’t know how hard mattress shopping is for me. I know it is hard for everyone, but before this mattress we went through to many (20+) in six years due to my back trauma from the car wreck. I appreciate all your help with me on this as I know I can be frustrating sometimes.
Just make sure to keep in mind that the specs you listed are only related to the durability the materials and the mattress “as a whole” and don’t describe how each of the mattresses you listed will “feel” to you or their firmness level or whether they will provide you with the comfort/pressure relief or the support/alignment that you need. In other words … a mattress that has the same “quality/durability” specs as the ones you listed could still be very different in terms of how they feel and their firmness level even though their “quality specs” are the same.
If you are considering an online mattress and the retailer or manufacturer you are talking to isn’t specifically familiar with the mattresses you listed or a mattress you are using as a reference point then I would make sure that you are comfortable with the exchange or return policies and the costs involved so that you can try the mattress in your bedroom instead of a showroom with little risk. This would be especially important if you have some history of choosing mattresses that haven’t worked out well for you.
okay so we went to several stores today. I did lay on some but not the length required. I did not like at all any of the foam cores, so we tested pocket coils. After I selected 3 I preferred by 2-4min test, my husband laid on each for a full 20 mins. I am sure people thought we were crazy. The one he chose for best match up out of the three was the following:
Top-Down
high quality panel knit covering
1.5" 1.5lb pre-stressed polyfoam
.5" 3lb gel infused memory foam
.5" natural latex
.5" 2.5lb pre-stressed polyfoam
1200 individually wrapped pocket coils
1.5" 1.8lb polyfoam edge casing
What is your opinion on this match up?
Edited: All materials made in USA and have a 6month trial period return and 12yr non-prorated warranty
The quality/durability guidelines here suggest “no more than about an inch or so” of lower quality/density materials in the top layers of a mattress and once the total is 2" or more it could be a weak link in the mattress. In a one sided mattress lower quality/density means polyfoam that is less than about 1.8 lb density or memory foam that is less than about 4 lb density.
This means that either the top 1.5" layer of 1.5 lb polyfoam or the 1/2" layer of 3 lb memory foam would be OK by themselves but together they add up to 2" so this would be “on the edge” of being a weak link in the mattress and would be a more risky choice.
Again … I would keep in mind that mattress warranties only cover manufacturing defects in a mattress and they don’t cover foam softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it (which is considered to be “normal” and not a defect) and the loss of comfort and/or support is generally the main reason that you would need to buy a new mattress. Warranties have little to nothing to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or how long it will be until you need to purchase a new one and longer warranties are more about marketing than anything else (see post #174 here).
We can get the firmer model of the same with 1.8lb polyfoam instead of the 1.5lb but with synthetic latex would that correct the weak link? It would then be - changes in red
There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here. Like all latex … synthetic latex is a very durable material (it would be more durable than the polyfoam layers in your mattress for example) and with only 1/2" of lower quality/density materials in the mattress (the 3 lb memory foam) there would be no “weak links” in your “revised” specs
Thank you so much Phoenix. I know my trip with you has been difficult. I really appreciate everything. We will go with the luxury firm model with the revised specs. I was hoping I would like one on the non-coil core mattresses, but just after the little testing I did which amounted to no more than 10-15 minutes total over three hour period, my side is already knotted. Luckily they will provide the warranty and the trial period in writing so I can get a full refund up to six months for no reason if it does not work for me.
The choice of materials and components is always a preference choice rather than a “better/worse” choice and some of the most knowledgeable people I know in the industry that could choose any mattress they wished to, choose to sleep on an innerspring or pocket coil mattress (although others that are equally knowledgeable would have different preferences).
Most importantly … it sounds like you did some careful testing (even though some of it was by “proxy”) and I think you made a good quality/value choice … and congratulations on your new mattress
I hope you have the chance to let us know how you like it once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Well two nights on that mattress and it is being exchanged. I liked the firmness that it had but I was tossing and turning all night and by the second night my lower back/upper hip area compressed and my discs twinged. Anymore time on it and my discs would fail once again. Have I said I absolutely hate mattress shopping!
So when we removed our current mattress to make room for this one, I was completely ignorant of what I had been laying on over the years. We have an extremely thick pillowtop. I found the tag on the box spring - It was not a Englander Tension Ease but a Englander 21st Century Visco Pillowtop. So the mattress we are exchanging the new rock for is most similar to it.
Phoenix your opinion please on weak areas:
panel quilt tack n jump with 3/4" Milliken FR fiber, 3/4" strataflex polyfoam, and 3/4" 1.5lb hd polyfoam comfort layers the Pillowtop
1" 1.8lb hd polyfoam
.75" 2.5lb hr super soft polyfoam
.5" 4lb visco foam
.5" 4lb gel infused memory foam
.5" natural dunlop latex lumbar support area
1.5" 1.8 hd polyfoam Core
1014 14.5 guage pocket coils
with 2" 2lb polyfoam I-Beam edge encasement
I’m sorry to hear that your new mattress and your “proxy testing” didn’t work out as well as you hoped for.
I probably would have kept the mattress for a few weeks so that it had the chance to break in and you had the chance to adjust to a new sleeping surface (see post #3 here) but I understand that that may not have been possible with your circumstances.
[quote]Phoenix your opinion please on weak areas:
panel quilt tack n jump with 3/4" Milliken FR fiber, 3/4" strataflex polyfoam, and 3/4" 1.5lb hd polyfoam
comfort layers the Pillowtop
1" 1.8lb hd polyfoam
.75" 2.5lb hr super soft polyfoam
.5" 4lb visco foam
.5" 4lb gel infused memory foam
.5" natural dunlop latex lumbar support area
1.5" 1.8 hd polyfoam
Core
1014 14.5 guage pocket coils
with 2" 2lb polyfoam I-Beam edge encasement[/quote]
My only caution with this mattress would be the top three layers which total 2.25" of lower density foams and fibers which would be a little thicker than the guidelines I would normally suggest (which are no more than about an inch or so of lower quality or unknown materials"). It’s “not bad” compared to many mainstream mattresses but it’s a little more than I would be completely comfortable with.
While I don’t know the specifics of your previous mattress … based on the comments here I would also suspect that the mattress you exchanged for may contain less memory foam than it did (it only has 1" of memory foam) which may affect how it “feels” and compares to your previous mattress.
I hope it will be a better “fit” for you and I’m looking forward to your comments once you’ve had the chance to try it out for a bit.
I had not even considered the quilt covering as layers. Ugggh!
Oh, I wish I had seen that post before my purchase. I may have to cut open my old mattress and just see what is there. I found specs online through several hours of researching for a Englander Visco Pillowtop King. The little info I found on it, the exchange mattress an Englander Vail Box Top matched it most and the rep said it was the closest match that they had for the Visco PT. If it doesn’t work out, I will ask for a refund and look into the 'Serenity from the Original Mattress Factory. As that poster said, I also loved the Stearns & Foster Emily Rose but from here the specs were undesirable. I do not like the wool toppers or care if it is natural versus synthetic. I just want a mattress that won’t put me in a wheelchair again. And obviously my feel testing is not reliable as I swing from a very firm feel to a very soft feel. I never thought my old mattress gave me a sink in feel and didn’t even realize the pillowtop was that thick until we took it off. Sleeping on it, I thought it felt very firm and kept the mattress with me if that makes sense. The new one felt firm but sank in at my upper hips which hurt me.
Phoenix, Do you have any suggestions on a possible solution for the quilt issue - maybe a mattress topper or pad? I measured the pillowtop on my old mattress and it was right at 6.75 inches on top of a 13" mattress. So a pretty hefty sized mattress.
EDIT: yes, I have kept my old mattress for emergency backup…lol it was my husband’s side that was becoming uncomfortable to him, my side was still livable to me. I wonder if I can rebuild it by removing the comfort layer and resewing in new if I could match it and find somewhere that would sell a layer to me.
The thickness of a mattress is really just a side effect of the design and internal layering of a mattress and is only one of many variables and specs that will affect how a mattress feels and performs and by itself thickness means very little (see post #2 here).
The only effective or reliable solution to having thicker layers of lower quality materials in a mattress is to focus on mattresses that don’t have more than about an inch or so of lower quality or less durable materials in the upper layer of the mattress in the first place.
The most effective use of a topper is to add some softness and pressure relief to a mattress that is too firm or to help create a softer “feel” and not to “fix” a mattress that has a weak link because if the mattress by itself is already a good match for you in terms of PPP then adding a topper can put you outside the comfort/support range that is suitable for you.
Having said that … a topper can take up some of the compression forces that come from sleeping on a mattress so in some cases it can help extend the useful life of a mattress underneath it at least to some degree but once the layers under the topper start to soften or compress then the topper will just “follow” the soft spots or impressions underneath it.
It may not be possible to identify the specifics of the layers in the mattress in order to replace them with exactly the same materials in the same firmness levels so it can take some trial and error to come “close enough” so that you sleep well on the “rebuilt” mattress but there are certainly some people that have done “mattress surgery” as a last resort when the only other alternative is disposing of the mattress. There is more about mattress surgery in post #2 here and the posts it links to.
Knowing the information you have provided me with now, I will have my husband go feel the mattresses near me that will hopefully be similar to these online ones. As no one I called could or would give me their specs for density etc of materials used or even the materials used over the phone, I will see if he can bring the list with him to try to compare similar mattresses. I don’t feel like I sink in with our current mattress so I hope we can find a comparable mattress to