Finally pulled the trigger on a D I Y latex mattress

Hi Phoenix,

Unfortunately, I have been having issues with our latex mattress for the past few weeks. Specifically, low back pain as well as mid back pain as well upon waking. We are sleeping on the configuration of med/firm/Xfirm blended talalay (all 3 inch layers).

I don’t wake up in the middle of the night with back pain but I wake up in the morning with pain and the bed just does not feel good when I lay down in it at night. It feels like my hip and low back area sinks in too much, almost like a trampoline. Granted I have been doing a lot of manual labor projects around the house and taking care of our 13 month old (23 lb) son which may be contributing to my back pain. But its just frustrating not to get relief from our bed. I have a neck issues which is likely causing some of the mid back issues, but have never had an issue with low back pain in the past.

We currently have 4 three inch latex toppers: two mediums, a firm, an x firm for a 9 inch mattress (Spirit of adventure I keep telling myself :lol: ).

My next thoughts of adjusting are to firm up the bed more by moving the x-firm layer to the middle (med/xfirm/firm) but I am really surprised that we would need a bed this firm because we were told by multiple dealers that med/med/firm should be an appropriate configuration for us (med/med/firm config felt okay for a couple of months and the felt too soft).

Our old Stearns and Fosters innerspring (which is supposed to be a medium firm) feels firmer and more supportive than our latex mattress.

Is it possible that the medium is too soft of a comfort layer for us? Perhaps we can try a firm topper as a comfort layer. Do you have any other thoughts? We really don’t want to buy any more toppers as we have spent too much already.

Thanks in advance!

Hi ps99115,

While it’s not possible to “diagnose” mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can identify the types of changes that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing (at least to the degree that any symptoms are from your mattress rather than the result of any other circumstances or pre-existing issues you may have that aren’t connected to a mattress).

It’s certainly possible that your “symptoms” are coming from some of the other activities that you mentioned but it’s also possible that it could be coming from the mattress as well. The “feeling” that you are sinking in too much or that it “feels like” a trampoline are somewhat subjective (like anything that is described as it “feels like”). They could be “pointing to” layers being too soft for you or they could also be from the natural point elasticity (the ability to contour to the shape of your body) and “feel” of latex (which is a very resilient and “springy” material).

The first step in identifying the types of changes that may be most helpful is to assess whether the symptoms you are experiencing are most likely to come from “comfort” and pressure point issues or are coming from support and alignment issues.

If they are coming from comfort and pressure point issues then changes to the upper layers of the mattress will often be the most effective solution.

If they are coming from support and alignment issues then changes to the deeper layers will often be the most effective solution.

The most common cause of lower back pain is either upper layers that are too thick/soft or deeper layers that are too soft so it would certainly make sense to move firmer layers higher up in your design to “firm up” the support of the mattress and see how that works for you although it’s also possible that there could be other reasons for lower back pain as well.

In most cases the layering and firmness suggestions that are made by more knowledgeable and reliable suppliers would work well “on average” for most people that have a similar body type and sleeping style but not everyone fits inside the averages of other people so there will always be some people that are more “sensitive” that have more difficulty in finding layering combinations that work well for them … especially if you only have 3" layers to work with (since you don’t have the option of doing any “fine tuning” with layer thickness in addition to layer firmness).

Anything is “possible” yes because each person is unique but the only way to know for sure will be based on your own trial and error and personal experience.

I would also work with what you have to find the “best possible” combination before purchasing anything else as well.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the reply and for the links. To be honest I do get low back pain upon waking but also mid back pain as well that lasts throughout the day ( I generally don’t notice the low back pain later in the day). It’s the mid back pain that is the most problematic for me. From reading the links it also seems like a comfort layer that is too thick and soft can cause mid back issues.

If it sounds reasonable, I think moving the xfirm to the 2nd position would be the best move for the next few weeks and see what happens. I know this would be more of an adjustment to the transition layer rather than the comfort layer but given my toppers it seem like the easiest thing to do.

Thanks!

Hi ps9915,

Given your comments this is probably the next combination I would try as well if I was in your shoes.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

We moved the xfirm to the middle layer and have been sleeping on this configuration for the last 5 nights. It definitely firmed up the feel of the mattress but the mattress now is so firm now that I have pressure points on my shoulders and back. It also feels like the medium comfort layer does not provide enough of a soft cradle as my mid back is sore when laying down on the bed and in the morning when I wake. I am an exclusive back sleeper (6ft 185 lbs), my wife is 5"4 (120 lbs), back/side sleeper but she likes bed firmer than myself.

On the flip side, I no longer have low back pain and it seems like my pelvis does not sink in as much as the other configurations. But I still have mid back pain fairly consistently which was present even before the last adjustment. Does this indicate that the support layers are appropriate and the comfort layer needs fine tuning? I unfortunately only have 3 inch toppers as you mentioned in your last post so If I really wanted to adjust the top 3 inches of comfort layer I would need to purchase either 1 or 2 inch toppers (which would be a last resort).

Another question I had is does it matter if you place the small hole side or the bigger hole side up during mattress layering (ex. side that was cut at factory has smaller holes, side with larger holes was made in the mold). When I first assembled the mattress I placed all the toppers with the small holes up because I was told this (in theory) would provide a firmer mattress overall). Any thoughts?

Where to go from here: If I can tolerate it I was going to try the mattress for a few more nights to see what happens (although some nights I feel like I want to throw in the towel). But then at that point I have a few different options for adjustments and I just was not sure where to start. I suppose we can cross that bridge when it comes unless you have any thoughts currently?

My wife who has been a really good sport about the mattress is starting to loose her patience with the adjustments (the toppers are heavy as you know and its a pain to get the 6 sided zipper dust cover off the mattress). She has a spine that is less sensitive than mine and has felt fine on every configuration we have tried. If I need to make another adjustment I was thinking of leaving the dust cover off and cutting all the layers into split queens with an electric carving knife (which I have on hand). This would make adjustments much easier and perhaps I could fine tune the layers on her side as well. I know there are posts here on MU about splitting toppers so I think that should be fairly easy for me.

Let me know if you have any thoughts. Thanks again!

Hi ps99115,

It’s good to hear that you no longer have lower back pain which would generally indicate that the support and transition layers are “firm enough” under your pelvis. As you can see in the previous links I posted there are several possible reasons for mid back pain but based on your feedback the ones that are probably most likely are either a pillow issue (the thickness/softness of your pillow) or you may need a little more thickness/softness on the top of your mattress. It would be somewhat unusual to have pressure points in your shoulders if you are an exclusive back sleeper because you wouldn’t be sleeping on your shoulders to put pressure on them when you are on your back so I would keep any additional thickness to the absolute minimum so that you have “just enough” in terms of thickness and softness so that you don’t end up with comfort layers that are too thick and soft and reintroduce lower back pain again.

Shredded latex toppers may also be worth considering because if they aren’t filled too much then the latex pieces can “flow around” the parts of the body that have a smaller surface area to some degree (such as the shoulder blades) and allow them to penetrate a little more deeply and relieve pressure while at the same time being more “supportive” for the parts of the body that have a larger surface area.

A zoning solution may also be worth considering that has a softer zone under the upper body and There is more about zoning in

Various zoning systems can also be very useful and worth considering for people who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. This would allow you to have a softer zone under your upper body and a firmer zone under the lower back and pelvis. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here.

If you split a 6" core into separate 3" layers then it’s certainly possible that there could be a slight firmness difference between each layer but this will be less noticeable with Talalay latex than with Dunlop. Again the only way to know whether you would be sensitive enough to notice any difference with these types of small differences would be based on your own personal experience.

Again your own trial and error will be the only way to know for certain with a DIY design but I would prioritize support alignment and then if you need some additional softness I would use the information in post #8 here and the topper guidelines it links to to try and add “just enough” additional softness and thickness to provide you with the additional comfort and pressure relief that you need and that would have the best chance of success.

There are some great instructions for cutting or gluing foam layers (either for zoning or for side to side split layers) in post #3 here and some additional posts with more comments and pictures about cutting foam in post #19 here and post #1 here.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix!

Definitely have a lot to think about and lots of options to try. Will likely be cutting the latex slabs into split queens next weekend, thanks for the links!

Also, ran across some posts of dominant layering in the links you provided. This may be a good option for me because I like a firmer surface feel of a mattress and like to sleep “on” the mattress rather than" in" the mattress. The softest layer I have is a medium so I not sure this would work for me but its definitely worth a try. DIY zoning seems a little over my head but its something I can fall back on if all else fails.

Will keep you posted. Thanks so much again for everything!

Hi ps9915,

I’m looking forward to any updates you have the chance to share.

Good luck in your efforts :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi Pheonix,

Just a quick update: I continued to sleep with the med/xfirm/firm for the last few nights and it’s staring to feel a little better. Mid back pain has decreased and the bed feels less “hard” when I lay down in it. I still have stiffness in both my lower and mid back so it’s not perfect by anymeans. I believe what my body is trying to tell me is that the bottom layers of firm/xfirm are appropriate for proper support, it’s just the comfort layer that needs adjustment, would you agree.

We were going to make an adjustment this weekend and I have 3 thoughts. Just wanted to check which would head me in the right. Direction:

  1. take off top of wool cover and sleep directly on the latex with current configuration: med/xfirm/firm. This may soften the comfort layer slightly and I could see if a stretch knit cover would work better.

  2. change to firm/med/firm. This dominant layering would firm up the comfort layer. I could also keep the bottom layer as xfirm.

  3. change to 4 layer bed: med/med/xfirm/firm. I have 4 layers so I have this option. I’m concrrned that the comfort layer may be too soft. Is there another 4 layer configuration you could recommend ?

Thanks so much!

Hi ps9915,

I went back through the topic to take a look at some of the combinations you’ve tried so that they would be all together in a single post and would be easier to compare and contrast.

med/med/firm:

As you mentioned this sounds like it was too soft although if you slept well on it for a month then it was probably fairly close. You also mentioned that after a month you had “no more low back pain” but it’s not clear to me whether you had low back pain before you were sleeping on this combination or whether you had low back pain when you first started sleeping on this combination and then it went away after a month and then came back again after 2 months. You didn’t mention anything about mid back pain so I’m assuming that it wasn’t something that you experienced with this combination.

medium/firm/medium:

This sounds like it was very close and you didn’t mention any symptoms that you were experiencing on this combination after 6 - 8 weeks so it sounds like it was a good combination for you. The “feel” of a mattress is much less important than any actual symptoms you are experiencing.

medium/firm/extra firm:

[quote]Just wanted to give a quick update: I purchased an extra firm (44-46 ild) 6 inch extra long twin core by latex international from mattresses.net. I had one side of the core trimmed so that the topper would measure 30 x 80". Once I received the core, I brought it to a local foam factory and had the core split into two 3 inch toppers. We placed the new extra firm toppers on the bottom of our mattress resulting in a configuration of medium\firm\X firm.

We’ve been sleeping on the new mattress now for about 4 to 5 days, but so far so good. The mattress density feels great and adding the extra firm toppers to the bottom of the mattress definitely made a difference in feel for us. It was actually less expensive for us to buy a 6 inch core have it cut then to buy a solid 3 inch queen topper. Our mattress does have layers of radium and latex international mixed but overall we like the feel.[/quote]

This also sounds like it was a good combination for you initially based on your feedback after 4 - 5 days and it seemed to be even better than the previous medium/firm/medium … at least for a few days until you mentioned this a few weeks later …

[quote]Unfortunately, I have been having issues with our latex mattress for the past few weeks. Specifically, low back pain as well as mid back pain as well upon waking. We are sleeping on the configuration of med/firm/Xfirm blended talalay (all 3 inch layers).

I don’t wake up in the middle of the night with back pain but I wake up in the morning with pain and the bed just does not feel good when I lay down in it at night. It feels like my hip and low back area sinks in too much, almost like a trampoline. Granted I have been doing a lot of manual labor projects around the house and taking care of our 13 month old (23 lb) son which may be contributing to my back pain. But its just frustrating not to get relief from our bed. I have a neck issues which is likely causing some of the mid back issues, but have never had an issue with low back pain in the past.[/quote]

The mid back pain was a “new” symptom that appeared with this new firmer combination (the firmest configuration you had tried so far) so it would be logical to think that it was related to the mattress now being too firm. This combination also seemed to reintroduce low back pain which you didn’t seem to have on the previous combination after 6 - 8 weeks so since both of these new symptoms appeared after you firmed up the mattress it would “point to” the mattress now being too firm.

The problem here is that it’s not clear if your symptoms were coming from the mattress or from some of the work you were doing but overall based on your comments it doesn’t seem that this combination was working as well for you past the first few days as the previous medium/firm/medium combination.

If you have ongoing mid back pain that lasts throughout the day then it’s possible that it’s not related to the mattress (pain from mattress issues will usually go away once you are up and have moved and stretched a little). If it is related to your mattress then it’s also possible once again that it could be a pillow issue since changing the firmness of your mattress can often result in needing a different pillow with a different thickness to keep your head and neck in good alignment. Either way … based on the progression of the combinations you had tried up to this point (and assuming that your symptoms were from the mattress and not your other activities) it seems that this combination may have moved you into the “too firm” range.

medium/extra firm/firm:

[quote]We moved the xfirm to the middle layer and have been sleeping on this configuration for the last 5 nights. It definitely firmed up the feel of the mattress but the mattress now is so firm now that I have pressure points on my shoulders and back. It also feels like the medium comfort layer does not provide enough of a soft cradle as my mid back is sore when laying down on the bed and in the morning when I wake. I am an exclusive back sleeper (6ft 185 lbs), my wife is 5"4 (120 lbs), back/side sleeper but she likes bed firmer than myself.

On the flip side, I no longer have low back pain and it seems like my pelvis does not sink in as much as the other configurations. But I still have mid back pain fairly consistently which was present even before the last adjustment. Does this indicate that the support layers are appropriate and the comfort layer needs fine tuning? I unfortunately only have 3 inch toppers as you mentioned in your last post so If I really wanted to adjust the top 3 inches of comfort layer I would need to purchase either 1 or 2 inch toppers (which would be a last resort).[/quote]

This also seems to be “pointing to” firmer layers being a potential cause of your mid back issue and this combination has also introduced a new symptom which is the pressure points in your shoulders. Again it’s also possible that the mid back issue is a pillow issue.

The good news with this is that you don’t appear to have lower back pain which “points to” the deeper layers being “firm enough” although you also didn’t have lower back pain on the medium/firm/medium combination either (at least that you mentioned) and you also didn’t have lower back pain for the first 4 or 5 nights on the medium/firm/extra firm either so it’s possible that you may experience lower back pain when you sleep on this combination for a little longer as well if the combination is also too firm for you.

[quote]Just a quick update: I continued to sleep with the med/xfirm/firm for the last few nights and it’s staring to feel a little better. Mid back pain has decreased and the bed feels less “hard” when I lay down in it. I still have stiffness in both my lower and mid back so it’s not perfect by anymeans. I believe what my body is trying to tell me is that the bottom layers of firm/xfirm are appropriate for proper support, it’s just the comfort layer that needs adjustment, would you agree.

We were going to make an adjustment this weekend and I have 3 thoughts. Just wanted to check which would head me in the right. Direction:[/quote]

This is good news and since your experience seems to be changing for the better I would probably continue to sleep on this for a while longer until your experience “stabilizes” and any symptoms you are experiencing are consistent.

Overall it seems that the medium/firm/medium combination was the best for you so far since you didn’t appear to experience any “symptoms” and the only reason you changed it was the “feel”.

Again I would probably sleep on your current configuration for a little longer since your experience seems to be changing although it would be worth trying it without the cover to see whether any additional contouring makes a difference.

Once you have tried this for “long enough” (and depending on whether you are still experiencing any “symptoms” either with or without the cover) it may also be worthwhile going back to the medium/firm/medium combination to see how it works for you.

Based on your comments I probably wouldn’t use a firm as the top layer since it seems that going firmer has introduced more symptoms.

This may be worth trying once you have exhausted all the three layer combinations but again the only way to know whether this will work for you will be based on your own experience since you are already “outside the averages” that would work for most people. This would probably be softer than most of the combinations you have already tried (and possibly softer than your first medium/medium/firm combination).

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix! Its nice to have another pair of eyes objectively assess my history. Just to clarify a few of the points that were not clear:

med/med/firm:

I did not have any back pain prior to sleeping on the latex mattress. I believe I had some slight low back pain initially but after about 4 days, the bed felt fine and I did not have any more back symptoms for 1 month. Then after 1 month my low back was gradually hurting in the mornings. I thought it had to be that the layering was too soft as that was always my initial impression of the mattress. In retrospect, after testing several configurations now I know I cannot compare the feel of a latex mattress to an innerspring as they are completely different beasts. This is my first time owning a latex mattress so the feel is much different than anything we have slept on before.

medium/firm/medium:

I lasted a bit longer on this configuration but at the end of 6-8 weeks the low back gradually returned which is why I decided I needed to make changes. The “feel” I did not like was the medium bottom layer as it made the bed feel “squishy” and not solid if that makes any sense. This is when I purchased the Xfirm topper and started down that path of firming up the mattress.

Okay, I have to disclose that I was experimenting with a homemade lanoodle pillow during this time (for about 5 days or so) which may have caused some of the mid back pain. I have a history of chronic neck issues (DDD, buldging disc, etc …) which I wont bore you with the details but finding the “perfect pillow” still eludes me today. I have been using a Z by Malouf low loft firm queen latex pillow exclusively with the latex mattress and it seems to be working okay. My neck pain has been under reasonable control with the new mattress/pillow combo. I will definitely not do any more pillow experimentation until I am sure I have the layers correct :cheer:

In retrospect, I don’t know if adding the xfirm (either to the bottom or middle layer) really helped that much. It changed the “feel” of the bed and made it more solid but whether or not that improved support and alignment is questionable. While I am sleeping a little better now with the xfirm in the 2nd position from what I remember I was more comfortable without the xfirm in the earlier configurations.

We will go back to the med/firm/med and see how that works again. If the low back pain returns then perhaps with can take off the cover to see if that makes a difference.

Again, thanks for helping with the assessment and adding some clarity! Will keep you posted either way.

Hi ps9915,

I’m looking forward to your updates :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Since my last post we kept the bed in the configuration of med/xfirm/firm and it started to feel better but not perfect. I still am waking up with low back pain but less than before. I enjoy the firmness of the bed and it feels like it provides great support but ideally would like to have a little more pressure relief and cushion on top.

We tried to take off the wool/cotton quilted cover and sleep directly on the foam with a bed sheet. Neither my wife nor I could tolerate this because the bed was too hot and we could feel all the holes in the latex which was very uncomfortable. If we place the cover back on the bed but do not zip the cover up will this give us a similar feeling as a stretch knit cover? Still trying to determine if switching to a different cover would be worthwhile for us.

Thanks!

Hi ps99115,

It’s good to hear that your sleeping experience has improved even though it’s still not “ideal”.

The wool would still affect the feel of the mattress even if the cover is unzipped but it would have less effect on the contouring of the latex underneath it and would probably be somewhat “in between” the feel of a stretch knit cotton cover and a wool quilted cover that was zipped up.

The wool would also provide better temperature regulation and a knit cotton cover would be closer to sleeping directly on the latex in terms of temperature regulation as well.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

I may be jumping the gun here, but we unzipped the cover and slept on the mattress last night and it felt great! Softened up the comfort layer and felt the latex a bit more. I still felt that the mattress was slightly on the firm side and woke up with slight low back pain but I will give it some time to see if this goes away. Its possible I may just need another cover to get the feel we are looking for.

Will keep you posted!

Hi ps99115,

Sounds promising … and I’m looking forward to your next update :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Just an update. Even with the wool cover unzipped the mattress still was too firm in the med/xfirm/firm. I was waking up with low back pain pretty consistently. I think that I could have added a 1 inch soft (22 ILD) topper to the mattress and it would have been better but that would require more expense and more latex.

We finally switched the layers back to med/firm/med and will try that for a while. I really like the feel of the wool cover unzipped so I most likely will try a stretch cotton cover (from sleepEZ) in the near future.

Would a stretch cover give the sense of more support since it contours more or just soften the feel overall?

Thanks and Happy Holidays!

Hi ps99115,

It would probably provide more “contouring” support (or what I call secondary support vs primary support) that “fills in” and supports the more recessed parts in your sleeping profile and it would probably also provide a little bit of additional pressure relief as well (again because it will contour to the shape of your sleeping profile and redistribute weight more effectively).

I may have linked these in a previous reply but just in case … there is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

Happy holidays to you as well :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

We switched back to med/firm/med + wool cover zipped for the last week or so. I’m still having low back pain in the AM similar (but not exactly the same possibly less) as when the mattress was firmer. The mattress relieves pressure points a lot better but this stiff back is driving me crazy. Could it be that I have been going the wrong way with the mattress and I need something even softer (EX. med/med/firm)?

Just a side note: I have been using the same pillow (Z Malouf low loft firm talalay) with every configuration of the bed. When I lay on the bed with a lower pillow (or without a pillow), my pelvis seems to sink in less (making the bed seem firmer). I have chronic neck issues so I really don’t want to change the mattress and the pillow at the same time as its just asking for trouble. My mid back and neck feels okay with my current pillow.

Another side note: we stayed with family over the holidays for a few days and slept on a med-firm innerspring mattress. My back felt much better on the innerspring than on our latex mattress :frowning: .

At this point I’m thinking about unzipping the cover to see if more secondary support improves my back pain and stick with med/firm/med. If that does not work I would soften things up by trying med/med/firm with cover unzipped. Keep in mind I tried all these configurations already with the wool cover zipped and all of them caused low back pain.

Getting a little frustrated with the bed. The concept of a latex mattress seems wonderful but I have not been able to get the layering right. Thinking of going back to an innerspring.

Thanks,

Hi ps9915,

There really isn’t too much I can add to my previous comments in post #18 and #20 especially.

Based on your previous feedback both the M/M/F and the M/F/M seemed to work fairly well for you at least for a few weeks so it seems that they are fairly close (or perhaps as close as you will be able to get with your current layers) although trying these with the cover unzipped may be worthwhile. It’s also possible that M/M/XF may be “just enough” additional firmness in the deeper layers to prevent the lower back pain from returning but again the only way to know this will be based on your own personal experience.

It’s also possible that you may do better on a fairly thin (say about 2") layer of softer latex which would be more conforming and pressure relieving and may provide better secondary or “contouring” support.

It’s also possible that you may be spending some time in sleeping positions other than your back (most back sleepers also spend some time on their side) and if this is the case then some additional softness in the top layer may also be worthwhile. Of course this would also involve an additional purchase with no guarantee of success.

It’s very common that different layering firmness combinations will need different pillows to keep your head and neck and upper back in good alignment because different firmness configurations will change how much you are sinking into the mattress in different areas of your body. I don’t know how this could affect how much your pelvis is sinking in but using a thinner pillow would put your head lower which may create the perception that your pelvis is higher (relative to your head) … even if it isn’t. As you mentioned though it can be somewhat risky to make several simultaneous changes at the same time because it may be difficult to assess which of the changes led to any changes in your sleeping experience so I would tend to experiment with one incremental change at a time.

[quote]Another side note: we stayed with family over the holidays for a few days and slept on a med-firm innerspring mattress. My back felt much better on the innerspring than on our latex mattress :frowning: .

Getting a little frustrated with the bed. The concept of a latex mattress seems wonderful but I have not been able to get the layering right. Thinking of going back to an innerspring.[/quote]

I would be fairly cautious about making an assessment on another mattress after only a few days because your history indicates that you may sleep well for a few days (or even weeks) and then begin to experience “symptoms” again. Having said that … an innerspring has a different response curve than latex and there are certainly many people that never seem to find a “perfect” latex layering combination that seem to do better with an innerspring support core (often a pocket coil) with latex comfort layers.

I can certainly understand your frustration. In most cases the two or three most common combinations (either the original layering or one or two alternative combinations) work well for “most” people and it would be uncommon to need any additional fine tuning after this but when you are “outside the averages” that would work for most people and after months of trying different combinations there is certainly a point of diminishing returns after that.

While it would certainly be worthwhile trying some of the more “granular” changes that you haven’t tried yet with the layers you have available (such as trying some of your previous combinations that seemed to be “close” with the cover unzipped or M/M/XF) … when you have exhausted all the most likely combinations with 3" layers it’s possible that an “ideal” combination may involve different layer thicknesses or a thinner or softer topper or even zoning. There are also some people that seem to do best on a different support core such as an innerspring even though it may not be possible to identify the “theoretical” reason why (experience always “trumps” theory).

Phoenix