currently on 9" that i’m quite happy with for my back, not so much my shoulders
top to bottom: 3" 28ILD Talalay (APM), (2) 3" 34ILD Dunlop (SOL)
i happen to have a 20ILD Dunlop topper in twin that i threw one (12" total) and it was simply TOO soft, shoulders were happy, back was not. i attempted to remove the bottom most 34ILD (20D/28T/34T) and it firmed up a bit, but i didnt get many nights on it. i still dont LOVE dunlop as my top layer, feel its just too firm when i squish through it
Options:
- drop the bottom most 34, get a second 3" 28ILD talalay, so 28T/28T/34D in hopes the dual 28’s will be softer than 1. my fear here is the 28ILD does push UP quite a bit, but maybe 2 on top one another will subdue that a bit
- drop the bottom most 34, get a 3" 20ILD talalay, so 20T/28T/34D, my fear here is TOO soft. i do plan to get a cover, so that may firm things a touch
- 2" 20ILD topper over my existing? would that be enough to soften up the shoulders? again, everything but my shoulders are happy right now for the most part
thanks everyone who’d been on this journey and helped thus far!!
Hi datrumole.
It sounds like you’ve already started troubleshooting. I agree with your assessment that 12" is too thick for you and is affecting alignment. I would say to start with option 3 and see how your back responds, since you already know this ILD works for your shoulder but the thickness was previously the culprit in your back pain.
I know you’re primarily looking for other DIYers to chime in, so I’ll leave it there for now. 
NikkiTMU
thanks nikki, forgot to subscribe to the thread, so i didnt get the notification you replied
do you think the 2" is enough to subdue the shoulder pain?
Hi Datrumole.
I do think 2" would be sufficient to subdue the shoulder pain without doing a number on your back. Depending on how far your shoulder really needs to sink, it could be possible that 1" would be sufficient. Of course, I don’t know what you feel on the mattress or the pain you’re experiencing, so my thoughts here are largely theoretical.
But, because we know that 3" was great for your shoulder but bad for your back, 2" does seem to make the most sense.
NikkiTMU
“i still dont LOVE dunlop as my top layer, feel its just too firm when i squish through it”
As a fellow DIY’er I too struggled with all Dunlop latex from top to bottom. It’s great for my spinal alignment and support but not so much on my shoulders. I also have a previous shoulder injury and I 100% agree with you w/ Dunlop as the top/comfort layer. To “me” there is still push back on the shoulders on Dunlop and I have even tried 20ILD and below.
My solution in the end was to place a 2" layer of 5lb. memory foam under the top Dunlop layer to soften it up enough for my shoulders w/o it affecting my back. Phoenix discusses this method as well as I later found out after my experimenting a couple of his posts of maybe 6-7 that I found in a search (wish I found it sooner in the experimentation phase).
The memory foam I used was the 5lb. viscomax (14ILD) from FBM (Foam by mail) and I still use this layering technique to this day as the combination of support and comfort for my back and shoulders is perfect and feels great. It relives the “pushback” just enough. Depending on your height and weight I would look at 1" or 2" inch as a possible solution. I went with 2" as I’m 5’10 250lbs. and that works for “me”. Either way just a possibility to consider, Good Luck!
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/pressure-points-with-sleepez/#8841
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/effects-of-layers-and-thickness
I also wanted to note I have (2) mattresses that I use this technique on, first a all latex bed and the other is a DIY Hybrid Coil mattress (DIY Hybrid from bottom to top - 1" LUX-R foam, 6"QEE Bolsa coils, 2" 5lb viscomax memory foam, 2" of 20ILD Dunlop Latex SOL)
(All Latex Bottom to top - 3" Firm 38 ILD, 3" Medium 30ILD, 2" 5lb viscomax memory foam, 3" Medium 30ILD)
Again I’m 5’10 250lbs., adjust/plan accordingly.
[quote=“Torkamata post=89837”]I also wanted to note I have (2) mattresses that I use this technique on, first a all latex bed and the other is a DIY Hybrid Coil mattress (DIY Hybrid from bottom to top - 1" LUX-R foam, 6"QEE Bolsa coils, 2" 5lb viscomax memory foam, 2" of 20ILD Dunlop Latex SOL)
(All Latex Bottom to top - 3" Firm 38 ILD, 3" Medium 30ILD, 2" 5lb viscomax memory foam, 3" Medium 30ILD)
Again I’m 5’10 250lbs., adjust/plan accordingly.[/quote]
very interesting
so in my case, would you keep everything i have 34d/34d/28t and just plop the 2" between the 34d/28d?
i’m 5"11, 210lbs, so not too far off from you, wonder if perhaps i do 3" 34d/3" 28t/2" 5lb/2" of maybe 28t? looks like APM has 28-33D in 2"
is the memory foam firm, med, or soft?
“so in my case, would you keep everything i have 34d/34d/28t and just plop the 2” between the 34d/28d?"
I would to start, I have only used dunlop latex for latex. I’m not 100% sure how talalay would feel over the memory foam would feel as I have no experience with talalay but I would think it’s worth a try. I think it would be softer over all with talalay 28ILD you currently have than say the 30 ILD medium dunlop I have over the memory foam in my all latex build. I would try the talalay first since you have it because I ultimately went with 20ILD Dunlop over the memory foam on the hybrid build I just completed and its more pressure point relieving on my shoulders than the 30ILD over the memory foam…
The 5lb. viscomax from Foam By Mail says 14ILD on its datasheet, it is a soft very slow responding memory foam. Memory foam ILD is sort of different from what I have read and talked with others about because it is temperature sensitive. The warmer memory foam becomes the softer it can be so you really have to take the ILD rating with a grain of salt.I do know it works great under the top comfort layer and could not be more pleased.
My “experience” with the viscomax from FBM is good to very good quality, I haven’t had the chance to compare it to Brooklyn Bedding aka mattresstopper.com and there 5lb. or there memory foam as their shipping times are weeks to month+ due to the supply chain shortage. Matter of fact thats the reason I didnt get it from BB was of the wait time, they are lower priced than FBM but I got my topper in about 7 days after ordering from FBM for about $40 more but that was last month. I just checked and I see BB doesnt even list 5lb. on their site right now.
[quote=“Torkamata post=89839”]“so in my case, would you keep everything i have 34d/34d/28t and just plop the 2” between the 34d/28d?"
I would to start, I have only used dunlop latex for latex. I’m not 100% sure how talalay would feel over the memory foam would feel as I have no experience with talalay but I would think it’s worth a try. I think it would be softer over all with talalay 28ILD you currently have than say the 30 ILD medium dunlop I have over the memory foam in my all latex build. I would try the talalay first since you have it because I ultimately went with 20ILD Dunlop over the memory foam on the hybrid build I just completed and its more pressure point relieving on my shoulders than the 30ILD over the memory foam…
The 5lb. viscomax from Foam By Mail says 14ILD on its datasheet, it is a soft very slow responding memory foam. Memory foam ILD is sort of different from what I have read and talked with others about because it is temperature sensitive. The warmer memory foam becomes the softer it can be so you really have to take the ILD rating with a grain of salt.I do know it works great under the top comfort layer and could not be more pleased.
My “experience” with the viscomax from FBM is good to very good quality, I haven’t had the chance to compare it to Brooklyn Bedding aka mattresstopper.com and there 5lb. or there memory foam as their shipping times are weeks to month+ due to the supply chain shortage. Matter of fact thats the reason I didnt get it from BB was of the wait time, they are lower priced than FBM but I got my topper in about 7 days after ordering from FBM for about $40 more but that was last month. I just checked and I see BB doesnt even list 5lb. on their site right now.[/quote]
awesome, thank you!
my next q was going to be, of the 3" 30 over the 2" MF vs the 2" 20 over the 2" MF, which do you like more?
i’m not too far off on weight at 210, but i have a degenerative disc disease and tore my labrum snowboarding some years ago, so i’m looking for something that won’t throw out my back for being too soft
wondering if there is perhaps a comprise of 2" 30 of the 2" MF (in my case, i may even try 2" 28 talalay)
“my next q was going to be, of the 3” 30 over the 2" MF vs the 2" 20 over the 2" MF, which do you like more?"
For pressure relief on the hips and especially the shoulders I prefer prefer the 2" 20ILD over the 2" Memory Foam vs the 3" 30ILD over 2" Memory Foam. I think the 3" 30ILD becomes the “dominating” layer instead of working in tandem.Meaning the memory foam softens the 30ILD which is good but its 3" of latex, where as on my hybrid it’s 2" 20ILD over memory foam so I get more pressure relief on the soft 20 ILD for my shoulder and still maintain the support for my back.
Since you have 28ILD Talalay, I would definitely start with that with the memory foam on top of your core (2) 3" 34ILD Dunlop and see. If that is still not enough pressure relief try that 2" 20ILD Dunlop twin you have on top of the memory foam, at that point you should know what you need. Let us know how it goes.