thanks mike!! 
Phoenix,
What a great site you have. It’s been fun watching your expertise grow since I first started reading your posts on WTB. The breadth of topics you cover in-depth here is impressive. And thank you for the kind words about the quality of our mattress above. We are proud of sourcing out the very best components we can find.
I wanted to take the opportunity to correct the record as to a couple of points stated in this thread:
You state, regarding my company FloBleds: “they do not have the same… ability to customize a mattress…” I do not believe anyone can match our ability to customize and meet our customers sleep needs, hands down. Not only can we make any layer an ILD firmness from 19 to 44 for either sleeper, we can also make a 2" one-piece topper in any firmness if a customer thinks that is what they need (although very few have wanted trade out their convoluted Talalay latex topper which is an ideal pressure interface: it is both extremely comfortable and promotes blood circulation through the skin). We are very serious when we say “The Original Personally Crafted Mattress” and our service just begins when we ship a bed. If a customer has a pain or issue with how they are sleeping, we work hard to address that need. With the widest range of ILDs on hand we can quickly provide the exact firmness combination needed. We stock horsehair for folks who sleep hot. We have pocketed coils for those who need a combination of latex and springs. Our service doesn’t stop until a customer is getting the support their body needs. Not for just 100 days, but for the life of the mattress. We’re a family business, and our customers become family.
FloBeds further can customize the pressure in a specific targeted area like the hips or shoulders. You would be amazed to read how many customers find relief for the first time in years. The vZone has become our most popular mattress and has the lowest return rate under our 100 Day money back guarantee. It is not in any way “gimmicky”. We have used 2" Velcro to hold each zone in place which allows the sleeper to switch the firmness in any of the 6 zones (Shoulders, Lumbar and Hips are the zones that are most critical, as they are the most common problem areas… and they are responsible for spinal alignment). In addition, for 100 days we will send any zone firmness needed at no charge. This year we took the vZone to a new level, providing organic cotton zippered pockets for each zone to smooth the zones and make adjustment even easier.
Our cover is an organic cotton 4-way stretch knit quilted to organic wool. We even put compressed wool on the sides and bottom so we can meet the Federal Fire Standard without using chemicals or artificial barriers. Our cover alone sells for $600, as compared to others with only wool on top which typically sell for $200-$300.
When you say: “SleepEz is an actual factory and can make custom sizes if necessary … FloBeds is a mattress “constructor” and puts together components.” I am not sure what you mean. Our actual factory has two Edge Sweets foam saws: A $90,000 horizontal band saw that can cut a piece of foam 80" wide by 100" inches long. This is what every FloBeds Core is cut to our exacting specifications. We have a smaller vertical saw to cut the core to King, Queen or Standard Sizes. We make custom size mattresses every week. They say “imitation is the sincerest (form) of flattery” We are indeed honored that SleepEz chose to imitate the design we created in the 1990s and continue to perfect today.
Lastly, I appreciate you pointing out that we often have had sales (although the one you mentioned was one of our smaller sales). I would be remiss if I did not let you know that this year we have embarked on a new “everyday low price” and will not have monthly sales. Our customers have always known about our price-match guarantee and were good at dialing it in. This will make it easier for everyone.
Thanks for allowing me to put in my two bits. Keep up the good work, your site is a great resource for the tired & sore sleepless who are looking for the rest they deserve.
Dave
President
FloBeds
Hi Dave,
Thanks for paying us a visit … and thanks too for the time you spent on our conversation it triggered today. It’s been a while (seems like a lifetime ago sometimes) since my WTB days
Thanks too for correcting any misinformation on the forum as well. As you know it’s important to me to make sure that accuracy rules the day here and I am certainly not immune from making mistakes in my assessments or comments. Considering that you cut your own layers and the materials you are now offering in your new mattress line as well I’d say that clearly makes you a manufacturer and not just an “assembler”.
The comment about customizing was more about the ability to choose different types of latex (such as Dunlop) and to choose a different top layer thickness but you also made clear in our conversation that you could customize your mattresses outside of the standard layering that was on your site and you also have some options that aren’t generally available elsewhere (including your v-zone) so there is no doubt that you can customize a mattress in ways that are not available elsewhere and I’m happy you clarified this as well. I also noticed that you now have horsehair and rubberized coir options as well as other choices which are very unique and interesting as well. It seems that I’m not the only one whose “expertise is growing” although I don’t think the learning curve ever seems to end
I have always been somewhat of a skeptic of the value of this many zones and while I certainly think zoning can be a valuable feature in a mattress, I am not a particular fan of this many. I think it would more accurately reflect my own opinions though to call the vZone excessive or “complex” rather than “gimmicky” and of course my own opinion is not any more factual than anyone else’s and is always subject to change. I am also not one to argue with the success of customers regardless of any “theory” and there is no doubt that the vZone can help with zoning in the more critical areas you mentioned where more challenging circumstances can make zoning very effective regardless of it’s importance in other areas. The one thing I do like about the vZone is that they can be re-arranged and as you mentioned today on our call you will change out any of the zones for a different ILD if that becomes necessary which is a great service. While I still think that choosing or arranging 6 zones could be somewhat complex and I still question the value of this many … the extra zones certainly don’t do any harm and the idea of customizable zoning in critical areas is a good option IMO. It’s great that you offer it and this specific type of zoning also makes you unique and “unique” is always part of “value”.
I think of all the things we talked about this is probably the best news of all. With everyday pricing and not having to wait for a sale … the overall “value” of your products is certainly better (even though you did previously match any sale prices for a period of time on any purchase) and this is great to see. As you also know I’m not a fan of 'sale" pricing …especially with manufacturers that don’t need them to have good value. If there was a single source of some of the “tone” of my postings about flobeds in both WTB and here, it was that from a more 'raw materials" point of view and without sale pricing you were not in the same “value range” as other manufacturers. With this change from sale pricing to everyday pricing that has changed and of course there has never been any doubt about the quality of your materials or the ongoing service you offer to your customers.
So I think more than anything, our conversation today and some of the changes you have made will result in a different tone when you are the topic of discussion. Who knows, with a few more conversations you may even convince me of the value of having 6 zones in a mattress … but diversity and different design theories and ideas are part of what makes the industry (at it’s best) so interesting
Thanks again for taking the time to post and bring us up to date … and for the conversation we had today. It was good to connect and set the record straight.
NOTE ADDED: They have since become a member of the site and you can see some additional or “updated” thoughts about their vZone in post #4 here.
Phoenix
Hi Dave and Phoenix,
I couldn’t be more impressed with the information you both provided today, and the respectful way you both communicated it. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for creating the best mattress site on the web, by the way. It’s such a difficult topic because it’s so entirely subjective, but it’s great to have this amazing resource.
As far as FloBeds go, I was an owner for a year and I thought I’d share my experience.
First and very, very important, the customer service at FloBeds is about the best anywhere. These people seem to truly care about your experience with their bed, even long after you’ve purchased it. They will work with you layer by layer to help you create the best sleep experience possible.
Because of that, my husband and I were determined to make it work. We swapped out layers, rearranged, shuffled, replaced and shifted until long after the return window (which was a generous window, don’t get me wrong). My husband is an engineer and actually seemed to enjoy the process (it is a lot of work, by the way, so if you’re not excited about assembling and disassembling, you won’t find it nearly as enjoyable). Unfortunately, even after a year, we were unable to find a workable system for either of us. My husband has arthritis in his lower back, as well as multiple small bone spurs. We thought this bed might be the answer. Unfortunately, it wasn’t. I can’t blame the bed, per se, I’m sure for people who like the latex feel it is probably one of the best options out there. But for us, it only felt like various configurations of wet sand. By the end of the year my husband was missing work due to back pain, and I felt like I hadn’t had a good night’s sleep in… well… a year. There’s a sense of “dead weight” that came with the bed, for me. It was a passive resistance rather than an active one. Moving and rolling over were difficult, and I found myself waking up several times a night as I worked to shift position to get comfortable. I also found the bed unbearably hot, and as a middle-aged woman this is a big issue.
In retrospect, I wish we had gone with our gut instinct and returned the bed within the return window. The company was SO helpful, though, we were just sure it could work. It’s an expensive mattress, and it did sting our bank account to have to go out and buy a different bed after that investment.
If you do purchase from them (and again, it is a really solid company and they will really work with you to help you get the right “fit”), you can judge fairly quickly whether or not the bed will work for you. If it’s just a bit “off,” I’m sure they can make it better. But if you get that sense fairly quickly that latex is not for you, don’t hold out hoping that there is a magical configuration that will fix it. It will never stop being latex no matter how you shift it around. The idea that it can be made to feel like “anything” really isn’t true, even if we wanted it to be.
For perspective on us and our preferences, we ended up purchasing a high-end Vi spring innerspring mattress. The first night was heaven. I’ll wait several months before giving a review on it and whether or not it was worth the prohibitive cost. I think we spring people may be a dying breed, but I’m afraid I’m a spring sleeper for life.
Hi Kay_Rock,
Thanks for the great insights and comments … I appreciate them
As you mentioned here …
… there is no material or combination of materials that works well for everyone or that everyone prefers and sometimes there is no alternative to replacing a mattress no matter how well it may work in theory or for most other people. While you may be able to find the best balance of pressure relief and alignment … it still may not fit the “preferences” part of an ideal mattress for some people.
I’m also a fan of VI Springs and they are certainly among the best of their category (hand built innerspring / natural fiber mattresses) although of course like latex or any other materials they are also not everyone’s preference and may also not work well for some people. For those who can comfortably afford them though or who like the idea of having a hand built mattress that uses natural materials and are comfortable with much higher budget ranges they can certainly be a good choice. This is particularly true for people that how they feel “about” their mattress is just as important a part of their personal value equation as how they feel “on” their mattress. It’s like the difference between a piece of solid wood furniture where every joint is hand carved and built by a master craftsman vs a piece of solid wood furniture that is machine made. One may not be more durable than another or even more functional but it certainly “feels” better to own it knowing the craftsmanship that went into it. You could almost compare it to buying a work of art rather than “just” a mattress
While it’s true that specialty foam or other mattresses are gaining market share … innersprings are by far still the most popular mattress purchase and I doubt that they will ever die out in the foreseeable future. They have a very different response curve than foam or other support cores and I think that spring mattresses will remain a preference for many people regardless of the materials that are used in the comfort layers above them. Some of the most knowledgeable people I know that could choose to sleep on anything they wanted still sleep on innerspring mattresses with various combinations of materials in the comfort layers (including natural fibers for those who prefer them) and I think they will always remain as a viable option regardless of any alternative support systems that may be available.
Phoenix
Thank you for the kind feedback!
yes, I agree, it is very much a personal preference, and I do admit that the concept of the craftsmanship was very appealing. We’re fairly “green” people who support independent manufacturers. Even though it was realistically a bit out of our comfortable price-range, there were elements that felt “worth it.” A lot of our decision had to do with warranties and long-term happiness of customers in reviews, as well. We have bought other expensive spring mattresses and have been disappointed with longevity. Vi-spring seems to have an uncommonly good warranty, and customers have stated that they actually stand by the warranty. Fingers crossed that it’s true! I’ll find a more appropriate thread for that later, though. I don’t want to distract from the relative values of the two mattresses on topic.
PS - thanks also for the report that spring mattresses are still in vogue. So many stores want to tell you they’re not. I’ve had some pretty awful experiences with retailers on that topic. I’m assuming some of it might be incentives for sales-people?
Hi Kay_Rock,
I think that the current marketing trend (some would say hype) towards gel memory foam has a lot to do with this as well as salespeople try to “position” memory foam mattresses as being better rather than just “different”. Specialty materials also tend to be more costly which of course can also increase commissions for salespeople who are commission based and lean towards “stepping up” their customers to more premium mattresses whether they are a suitable choice or not and memory foam dominates the specialty sleep category.
Phoenix
I’d like to know what brand you ended up with?
I think I just answered my own question… I didn’t realize VI is a brand, not a “type”
Since it has now been over 1 year since the last post in this string, I was wondering if you have any new updates on these two different manufactors/distributors. My wife and I are trying to decide between them. We recently purchased a Reverie sleep system and are still in the 100 night period, We are trying to decide what we want to do. We are looking for a more “plush”/“cushy” bed that is supportive and that we can feel like we sink into at the end of the day. Plus, my wife has lower back pain and regularly wakes up with her arms/shoulders asleep. Any and all insight would be great appreciated.
Hi jhmoss1,
I noticed that you registered with your email as your username which means that automated spambots will be able to harvest your email and add you to their spam lists. If you’d like I can remove the @ and the domain after it and change your username to just jhmoss1 (or any username you wish).
They both make the same component mattresses as they did when the topic was started so the only update would be that Flobeds has also since become a member of this site which means that I think highly of them and like SleepEZ and the other members here I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge and transparency.
You can also see some additional and “updated” thoughts about the Flobeds vZone in post #4 here.
Forum searches on Flobeds and on SleepEZ (you can just click both links) will bring up many more forum comments and feedback about both of them as well.
I don’t know which configuration you purchased but one of the advantages of the Reverie system and other component latex mattresses is that they can be fine tuned or customized after a purchase to make changes to the configuration of the mattress and the latex cylinders in your mattress can be arranged into different patterns that can provide firmer or softer support. The first suggestion I would have is to have a more detailed conversation with Reverie so that they can share their expertise that comes from their experiences with other customers that are in similar circumstances to yours about the types of changes that would have the best chance of resolving any “symptoms” you are experiencing on your mattress.
There is more detailed information about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.
There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can make the types of changes or additions to your mattress that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing out of the options that are available to you.
The most common (although not the only) reason for lower back pain is a mattress that is too soft which of course is the opposite of “cushy” which normally “points to” a preference for either thicker or softer comfort layers which can sometimes make lower back issue worse if your mattress is already too soft. It’s also possible that you may need different configurations on each side of your mattress but I would be very cautious about making a mattress softer if there is a possibility that your mattress is already too soft.
Once you have resolved any lower back issues with a different configuration and if you still need it after adjusting the pattern of the cylinders then adding a topper that will have more of an effect on “feel” or pressure relief than it will on support/alignment can also be an effective way to resolve any “feel” (which is more of a subjective preference than a “need”) or pressure relief issues. Some of the options here would include a softer foam layer (latex, memory foam, polyfoam) or a down or down alternative topper, a wool topper, or a shredded latex topper. Upper body or shoulder symptoms can also be the result of a pillow that doesn’t keep your head and neck in good alignment over the course of the night and it’s very common that when you buy a new mattress you will also need a new pillow as well because the distance between your head and neck and the mattress surface may be different from what it was on your old mattress.
Phoenix
I read this old thread searching on vzone chatter, and ended up called hoping to get Dave, his response here was fantastic, as was yours Phoenix. I just got off the phone with FloBeds and they were willing to work with me on the price of the vzone system, as well as customization for each side. (one side will be for when im on my back, the other for while im on my side) I have not yet ordered, as logistically im not ready yet. But im pretty sure of my decision to go with the vzone. I’ve got the 5% discount for being a member here, and then some because they are really fair honest people. Once Paul explained the value in the goldilocks guarantee they offer i almost felt bad taking the additional discount. Hope to be sleeping again by the end of June. I feel im headed in the right direction, anyone have any feedback on the vzone ? Any zone mattresses in NC? I’d love to see how my body agrees to zoning.
Hi Russaintsleeping,
I’m happy that you received some good advice when you phoned FloBeds. As you’re well aware, I think highly of them and the advice they provide.
As far as other’s opinions on the vzone, just like using someone else’s opinion on a traditional mattress, I would always advise caution of using anyone else’s experience as an indicator of your potential happiness or success on a similar item, especially a zoned system, and one as unique as the vzone, as there are incredible variables in individual preferences, body types, aliments, BMIs, somatotypes, levels of fitness, flexibility, and sensitivities, just to name a few things. And it is often that people seeking a zoned system have particular issues that can only be solved with zoning. The best advice I can offer is to trust the advice offered by FloBeds, as they are one of the most experienced manufacturers using latex zoning systems.
I’m not personally aware of anyone with a similar zone latex mattress system to Flo Beds in North Carolina. Even if you did find a showroom with a zoned mattress, it is unlikely it would be similar to the vzone system and as such wouldn’t be representative of that particular product. Even latex mattresses offering cores that are zoned will not be similar to the vzone system.
Phoenix
Hi there…
Love the site. I am hoping someone here can help.
I have been researching latex mattresses for months and discovered Flobeds through this site. Thank you! I was leaning toward a local latex store here in LA, to save money. They have been around since the 60s, but they are stuck there wih their crap return/exchange policy and I really think I want the vZone. I am in my mid-forties, work on a computer all day and do a lot of yoga. I have low back pain that is causing me some hip soreness in the mornings. My innersrping bed is embarrasingly old. I am not sleeping soundly, and flip around a ton. I want to pair the Flobed with an adjustable base since I love to sleep on my back and hope to benefit from Zero Gravity. My question is…does the zoning make up for needing that zero gravity? Is it necessary or overkill? Also…I am not trying to break the bank on adjustable bed since I feel the bed is only for sleeping, sex, and reading. I don’t lie in it all day, ever, so I don’t need bells and whitsltes, just something solid that works. Does Zero Gravity vary per person? Is a Zero Graviy preset necessary to really achieve the position and benefit from it?
Thanks so much for any responses.
I might be able to help with your questions. Zoning in a mattress design is to address different levels of support required in the various parts of our bodies. Most people’s weight is highest in the middle of their height, so zoned designs will commonly have additional support in their center sections. Depending upon the number of zones they can also provide softer zones to provide contouring pressure relief in other areas.
Adjustable bases allow you to adjust height and incline in various sections of the mattress, like raising your knees and/or inclining your back to realize a more comfortable position than being completely flat. The benefits of such bases vary widely among users and their effectiveness can be related to your desired sleeping position. I find them to be most comfortable for back sleeping. If you change sleeping positions on such a base you can end up in some very uncomfortable positions depending upon its settings.
The ‘Zero Gravity’ position is a set combination of knee and back elevation which is found to be comfortable for many, but it is not related to any zoning that a mattress may provide. ZG doesn’t change the level of support in different sections as zoning does. I’ve found that there’s nothing really magical about the ZG setting, and that I usually prefer a bit lower back setting than what ZG typically provides. You can achieve a setting that is most comfortable to you by just adjusting the variable sections of the adjustable base, and then setting that to a memory position assuming your base supports such settings. So ZG can provide you with an accessible reference setting, but it may not be optimal for any particular person. This is all based upon my personal experience and of course YMMV applies. Hope this was helpful!
Thank you so much. I talked to Dewey today. I am looking to purchase in about two weeks. He suggested I try the mattress first…then add a base if I felt it was needed. I can not wait to come back and report my thoughts.
The mattress is taking me out of my original budget…and living in Cali, where Flobeds is based, will add another $200 in taxes. So I may wait to see if I can score an adjustable base on Black Friday.
Hi ebraxton30.
Thanks for your brief update after your conversation with Dewey ( Expert on TMU Panel) … I can certainly sense your enthusiasm He is extremely knowledgeable about latex and different zoning configurations to match different needs. You are certainly looking at a very good quality/value zoned option from Flow Beds one of the Trusted Members of the site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.
I am looking forward to any further updates both for your Adjustable bed and mattress selection.
Phoenix
@ Sweet Dreams… Thanks as always for your valuable contributions over the years, and or course for your description of the “Zero Gravity” feature
I wanted to circle back on my bed. So many people never do…I received my Flobed in October. It was no issue putting it together. Their website does not do the quality justice. The mattress cover is so well made. It is just luxurious. I also purchased the St. Dormeir mattress protector from Flobeds. I am so glad that I did. It changes the feel of your sheets. Well worth the $200.
Now…when I originally talked to Dewey, he and I discussed the adjustable base. But my budget was way thrown when I decided to go with a Flobed, so he encouraged me to see how the bed felt first. I thought my boxspring was in good shape. But what i found, was that my old box spring was not made to support my new 180lb mattress. It was totally swaying in the middle. I slept on it a few days like that before I realized. My body was so upset I had to sleep on the sofa a few days.
I purchased an adjustable base and everything has changed. What I realized is, it really took my body time to adjust to my mattress. And now I love it. I didn’t think I was going to be one of those people. I thought I would instantly adjust. I honestly wasn’t sure at first. Before i realized my mattress wasn’t properly supported, Dewey and Dave gave me some tips on adjusting my vzone bed, but I returned it to the original firm configuration when the new base arrived.
I like zero gravity, but I am not sure if I will utilize it all the time. I have waken up and gone back to flat many times. Last night I didn’t use it at all. But the adjustable base really helps my low back when needed. And my back pain has majorly improved since I purchased my bed. I have been traveling quite a bit, so the adjustment took me longer. But I am loving it now. I will be leaving my bed for two weeks during the holidays. Not looking forward to that.
One other thing…it took me a minute to get used to the “natural” look of the mattress in regards to making my bed and aesthetics. It has a natural wool and cotton cover. So if you lay on it, you can see the imprint. It doesn’t return to a perfect shape like a mattress made from synthetic materials does. I don’t want any toppers, yet, as I like the feel of my mattress, so I may need to make my bed differently so it looks more fluffed up.
Dewey and Dave are great. I was very pleased with them and would purchase from them again in a minute. Great experience.
Hi ebraxton30.
Thank you for taking the time to share your two-month mattress update, valuable insights, and experience with FloBeds. I appreciate it! I am excited about your success and that your back pain has majorly improved with the new mattress. Your post is certainly a good reminder for others looking to diagnose mattress issues that the first place to check is the foundation and support under the mattress.
As I didn’t get a chance yet … Congratulations on your successful mattress purchase! I am very pleased that the mattress works so well for you.
I’m looking forward to any additional updates you may wish to share once you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a little longer.
Phoenix