Floored

[Sierra72509]

Hey! Josh here. Found this site yesterday and have been absolutely floored by the information that has been freely, clearly, and definitively shared in the articles and forums.
So first off, Phoenix, thank you.

A little about my wife and I…
I’m 31 and 5’10, and she is 48 and 5’7. We’re both about 180. I’m a side sleeper with little to no chronic pain. She does her best to sleep on her back as suggested by her chiropractor given her severe back/shoulder/neck pain.
We currently are sleeping on a memory foam mattress purchased at Sam’s Club about 5 years ago for $500. It was supposed to be a temp fix until we got married and combined living situations at no more than 2 years. However, 5 years later we’re still using it and constantly complaining about it.

Saturday, I decided we were going to go looking to see what we could find out. Our first stop was The Original Mattress Factory. She’d had a OMF innerspring for years (replaced by the current foam deal) and suggested we start there. We tested every mattress on the floor. We were “ok” with one of their upper end spring mattress sets but both of us had some serious issues returning to a spring set up as we have grown accustomed to the foam feel.
Enter the latex… I was amazed by the feel of the Serenity Latex. I was not happy about the almost $2k out the door price. I’d been thinking more inline with half that.

Next stop… Sleep Number. Neither of us had been. We did the whole demo where you start on the P5 then the M7 and finally i8. We were loving the comfort of the i8 but almost $4k? “What does the C2 feel like?” We left with quotes for the C4, P6 and i8. Really “helpful” salesman, but I wasn’t sold on the air bed idea, no matter how comfortable in my opinion.
Sunday morning was the “I’d rather spend a lot of money on a bed” convo from the wife. I went to back at reading reviews before I’d pull the trigger on 4K.

I found reviews from Sleep Like The Dead on latex mattresses and air beds and then trying to do “research” on suggested options. FFW to 6 PM and I find The Underground.
I finally closed my iPad at 1 this morning. So again, thank you! It was like learning to read and finishing the Britannica in a few hours. Definitely going Latex.

Locally, we have minimal options near Ft. Bragg NC. We went back to OMF today so we could try the latex again and see the specs ($1775 with tax for mattress only). Armed with my new knowledge, I was pleasantly surprised at the quality and the flip ability. Layers in order:
~1.5" Talalay, 16-22 ILD, 3.0 lb/ft density
~2" Talalay, 21-27 ILD, 3.25 lb/lb density
~3" HD Poly, 26-34 ILD, 2.5 lb/ft density
~2" Talalay, 21-27 ILD, 3.25 lb/lb density
~1.5" Talalay, 16-22 ILD, 3.0 lb/ft density
The sales guy said he would not go with an all latex bed because of price and the poly core being more durable than a full latex as latex gets brittle and deteriotes quicker. (I haven’t heard “brittle” anywhere else - your opinion on his comment?)
We also tested the Pamper, Nature, and Beatiful in the Pure Talalay line at Good Nights Sleep store. The Pamper was a little too firm, and the Beautiful a little too soft, but the Nature was just about right…maybe (@ $2099 plus tax). The sales girl looked at me as if I had suddenly started talking Swahili when I asked what the ILD was for each layer. After trying to explain myself, albeit unsuccessfully, she said she could try to find out? She’d never heard the term in her 11 years experience selling mattresses. But she knew they were firm, medium, and soft mattresses. I asked if they were all natural, or blended or synthetic latex. She stated it was all natural, but 60 seconds later contradicted herself saying it was a 70/30 split with man-made materials since the blend was more durable than all natural. I’m not putting much stock in any comments she now makes but thanks for the 3 stories about the beds. I feel “informed”…lol. (I have since attempted to locate said specs but haven’t found anything online or in this forum as you have mentioned yourself).

We are making the 3+ hour trek to Sleeping Organic in Charleston SC tomorrow for further T&E and education. I found them in this forum. Another thanks! I’m hoping after that trip we will be more understanding of what we actually want in terms of layers. Currently, I’d probably go with the OMF Serenity Latex from what we’ve seen but hoping for better options tomorrow.

Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated, but regardless we owe you a huge thank you for all the knowledge we do have. And I have no doubt we will end up with something much more suitable than our original shot in the dark process we were going with.

[phoenix]

Hi Sierra72509,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

[quote]Found this site yesterday and have been absolutely floored by the information that has been freely, clearly, and definitively shared in the articles and forums.
So first off, Phoenix, thank you.[/quote]

I’m glad you found us. Thank you! :cheer:

Next stop… Sleep Number.

You can see some of my comments on air mattresses here.

I found reviews from Sleep Like The Dead on latex mattresses and air beds and then trying to do “research” on suggested options.

Review sites like Sleep Like the Dead generally amalgamate reviews and assign mattresses into very broad categories that really don’t say anything about any specific mattress in that category. In many cases a mattress is put into a category that it really doesn’t even belong in and then it’s included in the overall ratings for that category even though the overall ratings for the category may have nothing to do with the specific mattress. And taking reviews, which in the large majority are given in the short term by people unqualified to render an educated long-term analysis of the product, and bunching those up and attempting to pass them off as homologated information, really isn’t of much help for an objective analysis of a product. The term “garbage in, garbage out,” just like in the computer industry, can often apply in situations like this.

And regarding those reviews…while other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews or other people’s experiences in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

In most cases mattress reviews will tell you little to nothing about the suitability, durability, or “value” of a mattress purchase because they don’t contain the specific information you would need to make them relevant to the specifics of any particular person or their circumstances or preferences. There are also broad categories of mattresses that include very high quality mattresses and very low quality mattresses and if the majority of mattresses in a category are in the lower quality range then making broad judgements about the whole category based on the “averages” of these types of mattresses would lead consumers to look past some of the best quality/value mattresses in the industry. In some cases there are many mattresses included in a category that don’t belong in that category in the first place.

I’m glad you stumbled upon us at 6pm!

[quote]~1.5" Talalay, 16-22 ILD, 3.0 lb/ft density
~2" Talalay, 21-27 ILD, 3.25 lb/lb density
~3" HD Poly, 26-34 ILD, 2.5 lb/ft density
~2" Talalay, 21-27 ILD, 3.25 lb/lb density
~1.5" Talalay, 16-22 ILD, 3.0 lb/ft density
The sales guy said he would not go with an all latex bed because of price and the poly core being more durable than a full latex as latex gets brittle and deteriotes quicker. (I haven’t heard “brittle” anywhere else - your opinion on his comment?)
[/quote]

The specifications of the mattress you presented certainly represent quality materials and I would have no concerns about the componentry. While density is important for deducing the quality of polyfoam, the ILD, blend and production method of the latex would be the more important thing to know (the density will be more a function of the ILD).

Latex in general is the most durable of all the foam materials (latex foam, memory foam, polyfoam) regardless of whether it is Dunlop or Talalay or is made from natural rubber, synthetic rubber, or a blend of both. If you’re curious, there is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here. Regarding the quote about the latex crumbling, while all foam certainly deteriorates over time (thermal, oxidation, mechanical stress), latex is generally the most durable foam you can use in a mattress and would certainly last longer than a polyfoam core, even a good one. And this salesperson’s argument isn’t accurate, as a mattress will generally soften and break down from the top layers down because ongoing foam compression and deflection is the primary reason that foam materials break down and lose their integrity. The firmer deeper layers in a mattress will deflect and compress less than the upper layers. So according to his statement the outer-most layers would be more susceptible to deterioration than the core, and these are the same latex layers that he stated would get brittle and crumble quicker. Then why are these being used if they are so bad? The fact, as I think you already suspect, is that polyfoam cores are often used in conjunction with latex to help make a mattress more affordable, and sometimes to create a certain feel. But it’s mostly about the overall price.

We also tested the Pamper, Nature, and Beatiful in the Pure Talalay line at Good Nights Sleep store. But she knew they were firm, medium, and soft mattresses. I asked if they were all natural, or blended or synthetic latex. She stated it was all natural, but 60 seconds later contradicted herself saying it was a 70/30 split with man-made materials since the blend was more durable than all natural.

She is correct that it is a blended talalay with the 70/30 SBR/NR split. And according to data from Talalay Global (the manufacturer for Pure Talalay Bliss latex), their blended test out more durable than their 100% NR. But either type of latex would certainly be a durable material. It’s sad, but some salespeople are ill-informed about the products they carry. At least she was able to acquire the correct information for you.

The Pure Talalay Bliss (previously Pure Latex Bliss) mattresses use high quality materials (blended Talalay latex) and there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress.

Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated, but regardless we owe you a huge thank you for all the knowledge we do have. And I have no doubt we will end up with something much more suitable than our original shot in the dark process we were going with.

It really sounds like you’re on the right track and have been reading the appropriate topics. You’ve probably already read through it, but just in case, make sure you read the Mattress Shopping Tutorial.

I look forward to your continued comments and learning about what you eventually decide to do.

Phoenix