Hello, originally I was going to use hr firm foam for support and hr med soft on each side for a double sided bed as I am familiar with poly foams; but as I’ve been reading up on the latex I’m considering it as the comfort layers, I can get 5.6lb latex in a med (30==do you think that is soft enough for side sleeping and also firm enough for sitting up in bed reading?) and use a firm hr poly foam either 40-50 ild. Whenever I find blended talalay it doesn’t specify the density, is this normal? Also can you suggest some good encasements that don’t have wool==I live in FL–that would provide adequate protection for latex?
Hi Alpharalpha,
A Dunlop latex at 5.6 lb. would be about a 90 kgM3, which converts roughly to an upper 30 / lower 40 ILD. Most manufacturers would consider this density most appropriate for a support core or a transition layer in a firmer mattress.
Talalay is normally classified by ILD, whether or not it is blended. Dunlop latex is classified usually either by density or ILD.
It’s important to realize that there is no such thing as a “single number ILD” for any Dunlop core that will be accurate and manufacturers list an ILD or even a range as a convenience to make approximate comparisons. This is also true to a smaller degree with Talalay although in practical terms it is much more consistent even though it is also “averaged” (in the case of blended Talalay). Even if the ILD is measured and “averaged” across the layer … it will vary by individual layer and will also vary depending on whether you have the bottom half or the top half of an original Dunlop core that produced the rating. The top 3" of a molded 6" Dunlop core will generally be softer than the bottom 3". It can also vary depending on which side of a layer you are measuring.
Dunlop and Talalay aren’t directly comparable in terms of firmness using only ILD numbers because there are several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the ILD of the material (see post #4 here) and Dunlop and Talalay that are the same thickness and ILD won’t feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). There is more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here.
You can scroll down the list of the different mattress cover vendors in the component post here. Some will have wool quilted in the cover (which is excellent at temperature and humidity regulation) and some will offer stretch-knit covers with nothing quilted to it.
Phoenix
Ok, found some covers that’ll work. As I’m wanting a double sided mattress I’d be going with 2 pieces of 2" talalay, for a side sleeper that’s 200 lbs would you think the soft 20 ild or med 30 ild would be best? With a support core of 3.0 lb hr poly, again would the 34 density or 44 density be best for support core. I’d save a couple hundred dollars going with the poly core over the 5.6 lb dunlop, and spend $100 more going with the talalay over the 3.0 lb 24 density hr poly. Then around $100 for a cover. This arrangement’d cost $800. A bit more than I originally planned on spending but you are correct about foambymail, I checked their specs, their hq foam’s support factor’s 1.9 while foamonline’s hr foam’s support factor’s 2.5 so seems worth the extra price.
Hi alpharalpha,
My answer here would be the same as I’ve provided to you in the past where it wouldn’t be possible for me to tell what might be comfortable to you in a custom mattress that you’re making for yourself. Even foam experts in the mattress industry are often surprised at what a mattress feels like in “real life” versus their theoretical design, and many of them have performed this for a living for decades.
I’m guessing you mean an ILD/IFD of 34 or 44. I know you were trying to approximate the feel in a couch cushion you’ve slept on before, and to assist you in that endeavor, the Polyurethane Foam Association lists common IFD of a mattress polyfoam core and firmer seat cushions in the 30-36 range, and firm mattress cores and thin seat cushions in the 36-45 range.
If you are considering ordering from Foambymail (AKA FBM or Foam Factory and other names as well) then I would read this post and this post and this topic (about their polyfoam and sources) and this post (presumably from a past employee) before buying anything or considering them as a reliable supplier that provides accurate information about their foam products.
I would consider foamonline to be a reliable supplier and they are included as one of the better online options for polyfoam I’m aware of in the component post here .
Phoenix
Ok, I’ve decided on going with all latex. I have purchased a 4" topper encasement for 3" blended talalay latex. I’m considering a cautious approach of first buying 3" firm blended talalay (36 ild) seeing how that feels and then deciding if I want that for the top comfort layer, and if not use it for support layer and then purchase medium (28 ild) and use those together. Just pure speculation here but as I’ve read that 2 layers will become denser together than one layer, would then combining 3" 36 ild & 3" 28 ild result in a firmness in some way between the 2 densities?
I received some samples from savvy and while it was a soft talalay and medium dunlop I got a general idea and can see sleep ez’s suggestion of medium talalay comfort and firm dunlop support for my weight and sleep style is probably right on I had requested a medium talalay sample but I guess they just have a set they send, the soft is way too soft so I have no way of gauging the med’ talalay but can get a feel of what firm dunlop support would be from feeling the med.
And a fading away 3rd option is to use the talalay topper along with a firm innerspring mattress, just as it feels like a more balanced approach, going all latex feels a bit more nervous like jumping into water off a bridge compared to wading in from shore–though I do believe the latex support will hold up longer than innerspring, I do kinda like innerspring, I’ve actually slept better in my life on all foam surprisingly when I started using motorhomes and sailboats, etc. That is why initially I was set on polyfoam as I’ve used it extensively with great results.
Project is progressing though, I have a 360’ topper cover now from heavenly dreams and the frame from kd frames has arrived–and within a few days of ordering it btw. Have to do some sanding and find a good oil paint for it so this buys me some time with the mattress selection. Am considering Mayer’s for the blended talalay topper purchase, I think I read on here that those are manufactured by latex international? Do you or anyone reading this have any experience with buying from Mayers; wondering if they are odor free like the ones I received from savvy? Be nice to have it all together 
HI alpharalpha,
I’m happy you’ve made a decision!
All the layers of a mattress actually compress simultaneously, not sequentially, and they will each compress to different percentages of their thickness depending on their position on the mattress, the firmness of each layer, the compression modulus of the material, the thickness of each layer, and the compression force that they are exposed to (which depends on the weight of the part of the body in contact with the mattress and the surface area that is bearing that weight which is constantly changing as you sink into the mattress more or change sleep positions). When combining two layers together the “completed piece” would have a new density, which would simply be equal to the new combined mass per unit volume.
Ad far as the combined feel, “going through” a layer is commonly used as a way to explain things because there is a different amount of force that “goes through” a layer and compresses the next layer of the mattress depending on the hysteresis of the material (how much energy it absorbs) and on how point elastic the material is (how much compression affects or is affected by the surrounding areas of the layer) … it would be just as accurate to say that you will “feel through” the top layer meaning that you will feel the properties of the next layer down to different degrees. Even the softest latex won’t “bottom out” (meaning it has no more ability to compress because the walls of the cell structure are fully compressed on top of each other) if it is on top of another foam layer and will have the ability to compress more yet even though very soft latex will compress to a much larger percentage of its thickness than a firmer layer. Every layer of a mattress affects and is affected by every other layer in the mattress to different degrees.
The compression of each layer (mainly controlled by thickness, firmness, compression modulus, hysteresis, and position along with a few other specs) are what creates the pressure relieving cradle of a mattress in the top layers which re-distributes weight and pressure on the bony prominences and pressure points of the body while the resistance to further compression of the deeper layers is what “stops” the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far and putting the spine and joints out of their natural alignment. The balance between the opposing needs of pressure relief and spinal alignment is the main factor behind all mattress design and theory and why different mattresses match the body types and sleeping positions and preferences of different people … or don’t.
There is no formula that can predict with any certainty what type of layering you may do best with that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience and without this the next best way to decide on the design of a mattress is to use the “averages” of a manufacturer for people of your weight range, body type, sleeping style, and personal preferences. These “averages” may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer depending on the specific designs and options that they have available (including all the components such as the cover or quilting layers which can also have a significant effect on how the mattress feels and performs not just the latex layers). You’ll have your best guidance when you initially test you 36 ILD piece once you get it home.
That latex is from Talalay Global (formerly Latex International), The Savvy Rest Talalay is from Radium, and is a 100% NR, versus blended. Most people say that latex has a “slightly sweet” or vanilla-ish smell. It is very slight and tends to dissipate quite quickly.
Phoenix
When sellers are selling blended talalay from LI if no further specifications are given is it implied that is talatech or is there a more generic sold?
Hi alpharalpha,
Talatech is a trade name for Talalay latex made by Latex International / Talalay Global. You’d have to check with any retailer as to whether it was natural or blended.
Phoenix
Sometimes I’m not too clear. What I was trying to ask was if when the sellers don’t specifically say Talatech when selling blended talalay from Talalay Global if it is all Talatech or maybe there might have been a lower quality latex below Talatech, but it’s seeming now that Talatech is the name they use for their Talalay in general. What threw me off was looking at sleeplikeabear there’s Celsion and some other lines of Talalay and I’m still new to all this… Since there can be some significant price differences in blended talalay from LI I didn’t want to unknowing order a lower end product out of ignorance. Sleeplikeabear’s price is I think 329 3" twin xl while Ktt and Mayer are around 100 less for the same size, but Sleeplikeabear was the only one to specifically use the word Talalatech, that is why I was asking.
Hi alpharalpha,
The latex produced by Talalay Global would all be a good quality material. Their blended latex is 70/30 SBR/NR.
Celsion is their trade name for their phase change material additive, also called Active Fusion in the Pure Talalay Bliss line.
Phoenix
After doing a bit more research I’ve started thinking it will be more cost effective for me to buy a latex mattress rather than diy. I’ve got it down to either Sleep on Latex (is wool REALLY cool to sleep on? seems like it would be the warmest.) Their 7" medium twin xl comes to $679 shipped and from what I’ve read about Pure Green it seems like a high quality dunlop foam. Weighs 160 lbs. I’ll be putting a blended talalay 3" topper on any mattress I buy–am leaning towards Radium.
Foam order also has a 6" latex mattress without wool and it has an inner cover as well, I am having some difficulty pinning them down as to if this is dunlop or talalay as well as it states free shipping but shipping charge shows up in my cart so if all that could get cleared up it’s pretty affordable at $618 for a firm twin xl. I have read less positive things about Arpico compared to Pure Green (quality control, just like between radium and talalay global.)
Mattress Net has a 6" blended talalay mattress with the wool quilting on both sides (I think that means on the top and bottom of the mattress so it can be flipped, but maybe they mean on both outer and inner sides of the top of the mattress cover, I’ll find out because I like the ability to flip it, and really don’t want to expose the latex to air if possible.) Theirs is $700 shipped for the twin xl. They claim to be able to get Radium foam. I really have been starting to have more faith in the dunlop as a core layer, if for nothing else there is more material there.
What do you think about these choices?
Hi alpharalpha,
Wool is among the best temperature regulating materials but I would also keep in mind that it regulates temperature in both directions (it’s used in the desert and also in cold climates because of this) so while it may not feel “cool” … it generally doesn’t feel “hot” either and it also helps to regulate moisture (which can trap heat) and reduce the perception of temperature that comes from higher humidity levels (similar to how temperatures feel cooler on less humid days than they do on more humid days). In general latex is the most breathable foam, but no foam material is as temperature regulating as natural fibers so it’s “coolness” would be relative to other types of foam. Some people that are more of an “oven” will also sleep warm if they sleep directly on soft latex with no natural fibers or other breathable materials above the latex (or with a mattress protector that impedes airflow).
They use 100% NR Dunlop from Sri Lanka. All latex is generally a high quality material.
FoamOrder.com sources foam that is both Talalay and Dunlop. You’d have to contact them to find out their pricing for each style. I can’t tell from the information you provided what they would be providing.
Pure Green is a trademark for Sleep on Latex from their foam supplier in Sri Lanka. I’m not aware of any current quality control issues between Arpico, the Pure Green, Radium or Talalay Global, and personally wouldn’t have a problem recommending any of them for your consideration.
Mattresses.net does offer Talalay from Radium and Talalay Global. You’d want to consult with them to find out who they are currently supplying for their blended Talalay, although either company would be a good choice, in my opinion.
For the same ILD, there will be more “material” (less air) in Dunlop than Talalay. Both are durable materials and have their own unique comforts. Dunlop is quite popular for use as latex cores.
All of the latex you’re considering is a good quality material, and Sleep on Latex and Mattresses.net are site members here, which means that I think highly of them, their products and their advice. It seems like all you need to do is place a few phone calls to these brands you’re considering to confirm a few details before making a final decision.
Phoenix
I got mixed up with sleep on latex’s pure green and the Sri Lankan company Latex Green. But it may not even matter. I see Foam Sweet Foam uses Dunlop from a company in Vietnam called Lien’A
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Hi Alpharalpha,
I received good feedback from FSF on the quality of that latex- they’ve been quite happy with it.
Phoenix
I would think it’s good quality as they offer a 30 year non-prorated 1/2 indentation warranty. I guess Vietnam has a long history with latex as well. The factory from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n2OJZogZBE seems pretty professionally run. I kinda like that they transport the latex on motorbikes instead of women’s heads lol. But, unless they had some kinda big sale they are just out of my price range, plus I’ve already gotten a lot of info on Latex Green for Dunlop (and Radium for Talalay.) In my price range ideally I’d like a flippable mattress and there’s Foam Source’s Natural Lux 6" (Latex Green) I used to live in Boulder so feel like I know who I’m dealing with. They have a firm 35-42 ild, cotton cover, no wool–which I’m ambivalent about. Costs $750. I will be adding a 3" topper to whatever I buy.
Then there’s mattresses.net, they have a 2 sided Blended Talalay (I believe they offer Radium) 6" wool/bamboo cover, have 32 and 36 ild, probably go with the 36. This one runs $700 shipped.
And then there’s Sleep ez, not 2 sided but easiest to get comfort levels right as they let you exchange to get it right, also $700 for the two 3" layered select sleep, and they offer Latex Green (and I think Radium.)
Really I’m into a 2 sided, so it’s either Blended Talalay or 100% Dunlop,
I wonder since some companies use a soft polyfoam in their quilting, and mattress in their comfort layers if that would make a decent topper in a 3" HR24 (3.0 lbs)
Getting close now. Did I mention that I had purchased the kd nomad 2 plus 18"?
Hi Alpharalpha,
While warranty has nothing to do with durability or quality, the Lien A is a good product.
If you get a 6" latex core, you’ll be able to flip it either within the covering, or if the covering is a complete encasement and the same on both sides, you can flip the mattress itself. Realize that when flipping a Dunlop core it may feel a bit firmer on one side versus the other.
[quote]Then there’s mattresses.net, they have a 2 sided Blended Talalay (I believe they offer Radium) 6" wool/bamboo cover, have 32 and 36 ild, probably go with the 36. This one runs $700 shipped.
And then there’s Sleep ez, not 2 sided but easiest to get comfort levels right as they let you exchange to get it right, also $700 for the two 3" layered select sleep, and they offer Latex Green (and I think Radium.)
Really I’m into a 2 sided, so it’s either Blended Talalay or 100% Dunlop,[/quote]
All of the latex choices you listed would be good quality. The difference would be the feel between Dunlop vs. Talalay.
That would be a personal preference. Some people do prefer a polyfoam barrier on top of the latex. A 3 lb. polyfoam would be a durable material.
No you did not. I’ll be interested in your opinion on it once you have it assembled and have had a chance to use it with your mattress for a while.
Phoenix
I just realized I may have some options to try out the different latex in stores in my area. I don’t go into Tampa generally but if you know of any brick and mortar shops that carry latex mattresses I would go there. There is a Bed Pros right around the corner, I went in once, do think I recall that talalay latex bliss, is that a full blended talalay global latex mattress similar to what I’ve been researching? We have Mattress Firm and Ikea’s not to far away. But if you know of any good latex shops in the Tampa area I would definitely make the trip to actually lay on some. I tried looking online and didn’t get anywhere.
Thanks.
Hi Alpharalpha,
Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent ( see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Tampa/ Clearwater/St Petersburg areas are listed in post #143 here .
Of those listed, these stores show that they offer latex products:
Pittsburgh Mattress Factory
Bartow Mattress Factory
Matter Brothers (might make latex mattresses – you’d have to phone)
Innomax
BodyRest has one latex model
Orlando Mattress Company
810Beds
Somnis Sleep
Bed Pros
Design Interiors
Better Back Store
Mattress Avenue
Phoenix
I’m having a hard time finding a topper or topper cover that is 2 sided so I can flip it without removing the foam. Do you know of anybody who offers covers like this? I’m going to put it all inside a mattress encasement so not too worried about it moving about. Thanks.
Hi alpharalpha,
Off my head, here are a few:
https://sleeplikeabear.com/product/natural-wool-quilted-bamboo-zipper-mattress-cover.htm
https://sleeplikeabear.com/product/Pure-Certified-Organic-Cotton-Zipper-Mattress-Cover.htm
You can also look at the cover suppliers listed in the component post here.
Phoenix