Getting rid of the Sleep Number and Going for a Latex mattress

So I think we will return the Sleep Number and go for a full latex bed.’

I’ve narrowed it down to SleepEz and Flexus. They both seem to be similarly priced and have similar products, but Flexus has the best warranty?

I also looked at Foam Sweet Foam and they are higher priced, dont offer split sides for his/her but have a great warranty similar to Flexus. But for the larger guys like myself, they recommend at least 12 -15 inches of latex.

Is that really necessary? I still have a 3" soft 20ILD topper. SleepEZ is willing to send me out a 12" cover if I purchase the 9" bed. Then I could add my 3" soft topper. But they dont recommend that at my weight. 230lb and a side sleeper. They think a 9’ with med, firm, firm would be a good fit for me.

So again is a 12" bed really necessary? If I chose to go that route, do I just go med, firm, firm, firm? Or swap out a firm for xfirm? At what point are you just being silly for adding more layers of support?

Hi HoosierLife,

Mattress warranties only cover defects in the materials and they don’t cover the gradual (or more rapid in the case of lower quality comfort layers) loss of comfort and support that comes from foam softening that is the main reason that most people will need to replace their mattress. In other words warranties have little to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or when you may need to replace it and longer warranties are more about marketing than anything else. If there is an actual defect in the material it will usually show up early in the life of the mattress but knowing the quality and durability of the materials in your mattress are a much more reliable way to assess the durability and useful life of a mattress than the length of a warranty. There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here.

Since all the mattresses you are considering are component latex mattresses that would all be very durable and would have a similar lifespan … the length of the warranty wouldn’t normally be a significant factor in making a choice between them.

At your weight you wouldn’t “need” more than 9" of latex but some people may still prefer it. There is more about the pros and cons of thicker mattresses in post #14 here.

You are certainly looking at some great options and once you are down to finalists that are all choices between “good and good” and none of them have any obvious weak links or lower quality materials in their design and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your material preferences (the type and blend of latex layers you would prefer), your conversations with each of them, their prices, the return/exchange options they have, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on “informed best judgement” based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

Ok, I read the links. I’m no less confused :).

Bottom line, I don’t “need” a bed at all. I could sleep on the floor. But will there be a pressure point, comfort, durability or longevity benefit to a 12" over a 9"?

Is it just marketing after a certain point or is ther an actual noticeable benefit?

Well I guess all this may be a moot point. The wife wants the bed to be higher lol. I measured where it’s at now and the bed is 26" off the ground. Our old bed was higher, so I think that’s why she wants it higher.

I was going to buy this frame/base Amazon.com

It’s 14" off the ground, so with a 13" mattress it will be 1" higher.

So then the question comes down to what should the bottom layer be? Firm or Xfirm?

Hi HoosierLife,

There wouldn’t be any meaningful benefit in terms of durability but there would be some differences between how they feel and perform. Unfortunately you are the only one who can feel what you feel on a mattress and when you are considering two mattresses that have different designs or thicknesses then the only way to reliable way answer these types of questions would be based on your own actual testing or personal experience in side by side testing. Some people would notice a significant difference and others may only notice very little difference or no difference at all.

Each person can have a very different experience on the same mattress so for one person there may not be enough of a difference to justify any additional cost while someone else may have a very different experience on the same mattress and the additional cost would be worth it. In some cases it can also mean that they would be noticeably different from each other but that neither one would be “better” than the other and both would be equally suitable in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).

I can help describe the properties that are affected with greater thickness (which is in the post I linked) but there is no way for anyone else to predict how this will “translate” into the personal experience of any particular person or how much difference any particular person would notice between them.

This is all part of the process and uncertainty of buying a mattress that you can’t try in person before you purchase it which is why the conversations you have with each manufacturer and the options you have after a purchase to make changes to the comfort and support of a mattress either by rearranging or exchanging layers can be a more important part of the “value” of an online purchase.

There is more about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the most suitable “match” for your specific needs and preferences and how to identify and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them in post #2 here.

Phoenix

Hi HoosierLife,

I guess that’s one way to choose between a thicker and a thinner mattress :slight_smile:

I would be cautious about choosing this with an all latex mattress and I would confirm that the distance between the slats was suitable (3" or less) and that the frame and slats were strong enough for the mattress and the people that are sleeping on it and that there was no flex in the slats. It certainly wouldn’t be my first choice for an all latex mattress. I would be particularly concerned with the gap between the slats in the middle. There is more about the different types of support systems that are most suitable for different types of mattresses (including latex) in the foundation post here.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Phoenix

Well then maybe I should just keep the base from Sleep Number. It seems like it would work well and I already have it. Do you think their base would work?

Hi HoosierLife,

While I haven’t seen or used it in person … I certainly think it would be strong enough and rigid enough to be suitable for a latex mattress yes. It also has airholes for ventilation which means that it would be less risky than a similar type of foundation that used a solid surface (see post #10 here).

Phoenix

Have your read the top review in the Amazon product? The reviewer seems to think its a good foundation for his latex bed. The slats are 3" apart. I don’t see why it would be a good option?

Hi HoosierLife,

Yes I have.

The reviewer doesn’t say how much knowledge or experience they have in the industry or with how certain foundations will affect a latex mattress in the long term or whether they have any specific knowledge about mattresses and foundations at all (other than purchasing it) so I have no idea how credible or reliable their opinion is.

The description says that the foundation has 14 slats and if they are 1x3 they would have finished dimensions of 3/4" x 2.5". This means that the combined width of all the slats would be 14 x 2.5" = 35". In an 80" length this would mean that there is about 45" unsupported surface and 15 gaps so if you divide 45 / 15 you would have 3" gaps which is what they mentioned. This is the maximum width that I would consider for a latex mattress.

I would still be concerned with the larger gap in the center of the foundation. I would also want to confirm the thickness of the slats and the type of wood they use to make sure they are rigid and don’t flex because the description talks about the “flexibility” of the slats and I would want to make sure that they have minimal to no flex under a latex mattress.

When I see “cheap” products I am also generally concerned about the quality of the materials and I would also have some concern with the strength of the attachments on each side that hold the slats. They are probably plastic and subject to breaking. If you read the lower rated reviews you will also see some indication that the quality isn’t as good as described.

Overall when I am looking at a foundation for a high quality latex mattress I would tend to err on the side of “an abundance of caution” and lower risk and I personally wouldn’t choose this as a foundation based on what I know about it and what I’ve read.

Phoenix

Do you know of any other local retailers to the Indianapolis area? I have called each of the retailers that you have in the Indianapolis thread. Holder, niagra and all the rest.

Some of them don’t even carry 100% latex mattresses. The ones that do, when I ask about adjusting The firmness with multiple layers and a zippered mattress cover, didn’t have any idea what I was talking about. They just carried specific mattresses by one the manufacturer and there was no way to make any changes to the mattress.

So I don’t know how I’m supposed to go in there and test and see what I like

Hi Hoosier Life,

The Indianapolis list includes the better options I’m aware of although of course there may be others that I don’t know about that may also be worth considering.

[quote]Some of them don’t even carry 100% latex mattresses. The ones that do, when I ask about adjusting The firmness with multiple layers and a zippered mattress cover, didn’t have any idea what I was talking about. They just carried specific mattresses by one the manufacturer and there was no way to make any changes to the mattress.

So I don’t know how I’m supposed to go in there and test and see what I like [/quote]

There are many stores that don’t carry all latex mattresses and most of the ones that do don’t carry component latex mattresses but there are a very wide range of mattress designs that are possible with “finished” latex mattresses so you would still be able to test any latex mattresses that they carry to get a general sense of how you feel about latex mattresses in different firmness levels and one of their mattresses could still be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP.

If you are only considering component latex mattresses and there are none available in your area then you would be limited to the online choices that are available to you although some local testing would still be a good idea to make sure that you like latex mattresses in general and to provide a guideline about the general firmness level you tend to prefer.

Diynaturalbedding in Lafayette, IN is also on the list and sells all the individual components for a component latex mattress and you could test different layering combinations there as well.

Phoenix

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Yeah I live about 20 minutes south of Indianapolis, so Lafayette is two hours away for me. Would laying on a 3 inch. topper on top of 6" of polyfoam be a good comparison for PPP?

Hi HoosierLife,

A 2 hour trip may be well worth it since you will be sleeping on your mattress for many years.

It would depend on the specifics of the topper and the polyfoam and the mattress you were comparing it to but the upper layers of a sleeping system will affect how it “feels” more than the deeper layers so if the topper is the same type and blend of latex and the same firmness level as the top 3" of a mattress you are considering and the polyfoam is close to the same firmness as the deeper layers in the mattress you are considering then it would give you a reasonable sense of the pressure relief and “feel” of the mattress you were comparing it to.

I would also keep in mind though that every layer and component of a mattress (including the specifics of the cover) will affect the feel and performance of all the other layers and components and the mattress “as a whole” and adding a topper on a mattress will also be different from a mattress that has the same layer inside the mattress cover itself (see posts #3 and #4 here and this topic) so having a “general sense” doesn’t mean that they will be the same and some people will be more sensitive to the differences between two different “sleeping systems” than others.

Phoenix

Well I had some time and I went by Village mattress and tried out the pure latex bliss.

I layed on the Nature and Beautiful. The nature had a much former top layer. The beautiful seemed to have a soft top layer to it.

I layed on both for about 10 min each. The firmer mattress felt better off the start, but as time went on, I can feel pressure in my hip that was starting to be painful.

The Beautiful felt way too soft at first, so I originally rejected it outright, but I gave it a chance and it felt great for the whole 10 minutes. I still needed to have a pillow between my legs, but the softer top felt great.

The owner did not know the ILD but he was going to email them to me when he received them.

He told me that most people confuse firmness with support. He says you shouldn’t sink into the support layers. But still suggested the lower ild mattress as the better choices. It was also the more expensive mattress. :wink:

But I really liked it. The soft ild topper was super comfortable and seemed to help with pressure points.

It’s 20 min later since I layed on the former mattress and the hip I layed on for that mattress still hurts a little.

So Phoenix what does that tell me?

Nice just got the ilds.

Nature 2" tal 21ild, 2"tal 28 ild, 6" tal 36

Beautiful 3" tal 21ild, 3" tal 24 ild, 6" tal 36ild.

I would not have thought the Nature had a 21 ild on the top. It felt very firm and put a lot of pressure on my hip.

They both have the same 36ild support layer.

21 and 24 ild would both be considered soft, correct? Why did I like a super soft bed over the firmer? I thought that at my 5’6"/230 lbs it would be painful. But I felt like I was laying on a cloud.

Now it was also all talalay. How would Dunlop affect any of this?

Hi HoosierLife,

The specs you received for the Beautiful aren’t quite correct and you can see the correct specs for all the PLB mattresses in post #2 here.

There is no “standard” definition or consensus of opinion for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that is firm for one can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. This is all relative and is as much an art as a science. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here). In other words you will always need to test a mattress for you to assess how firm or soft it feels to you (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) regardless of whether it feels firm or soft to someone else or how anyone else may “rate” it.

There are also different specs besides just ILD that can affect how soft or firm a mattress feels (see post #4 here) but it would probably be fair to say that in very general terms 21 - 24 ILD would be in the upper end of most people’s “soft” range.

There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” although with careful testing on a mattress this may be more than you really need to know.

I would be somewhat cautious with the Beautiful or any mattress that uses 6" of softer latex in the top layers when you are in your weight range and I would make sure that you have tested it carefully for alignment using the testing guidelines in the tutorial because there would be a greater risk that you would be sleeping out of alignment which can lead to lower back pain in the morning.

That you prefer the pressure relief of the softer Beautiful over the firmer Nature but I would make sure that what you prefer and what you need are the same thing.

There is more about the differences between Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix. I read all the links and then I called Jerermy over at SleepEZ.

Decided on a 10" with the 13" cover. Which he’s giving me at no extra charge, plus he gave me the Mothers Day 5% discount and 2 free King pillows and sheet set.

His- med tal, firm dun, firm dun.

Hers- soft tal, med dun, firm dun.

I’m still gonna try my soft topper on there. I can even move it underneath if my lower back starta hurting. But if decide soft on top is not going to work, he will only charge me the difference between the 10" and 13" to ship out the Xfirm for the base.

Will tell my results in a week or so. Again, thanks for all the help.

Hi HoosierLife,

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

As you know I think you made a great quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix