Help for lower back pain, back/side sleeper

Hi all, I’ve been reading through and finally ready to ask for myself.
I’m 5’4", 150 lbs, wife is 5’5" and 130-ish, both back & side sleepers.

We bought a king-sized Nest Owl in October with Medium latex. It feels super comfortable when I lay down, but sometimes I think it might be a bit too squishy, and I sometimes wake up in the morning with some lower back pain.

I had surgery on my lower spine in 2016, so back pain is not new to me, but I was hoping this mattress would help. Our old 2014-era Casper was fine for a while but a bit too firm for side sleeping.

I’m also not sure I like the coils/hybrid aspect of this bed, and we noticed that her side was firmer than my side, even thought we both got the Medium latex. We just switched it to see if it helps my back, but I’m really not a fan of how squishy the coils are, especially at the edges. And there are certain spots where the bed really “gives” too much underneath, like if I sit where my head usually goes, I sink down quite a bit, if that makes sense.

I’m thinking of returning it and picking up a 3-layer all-latex mattress from SleepEZ, but I’m not sure if this is a better or worse option than a hybrid for my weight, height, and sleep preferences. (My wife is way lower maintenance than me, so she doesn’t care what we get)

Anyone got any advice on which way to go? I’m a little overwhelmed with all this!

Hi Help Wanted,

Based on your back issues, I would suggest that you consider a mattress that supports your shoulders and hips separately. It’s vitally important to level your spine to remove pressure on your lower back.

Typically, our shoulders are wider than our hips so the only way to level the spine is by utilizing different densities under your shoulders and hips. Also, the densities selected must be appropriate for your overall body weight so you don’t experience that “squishy” feeling.

I hope this helps.

Bob

Hi helpwanted and welcome to the Mattress Underground :slight_smile:

We bought a king-sized Nest Owl in October with Medium latex. It feels super comfortable when I lay down, but sometimes I think it might be a bit too squishy, and I sometimes wake up in the morning with some lower back pain.

Sorry to hear your Nest Owl Medium is not working ideally for you. It’s a solid well built bed, however, remember that any bed you choose will be unique to you both based on your Stats (height, BMI, sleeping position(s) and any underlying health concerns) - thanks for providing those! - and your PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Different mattress types can have wildly different ‘feels’ for any consumer.

I’m also not sure I like the coils/hybrid aspect of this bed, and we noticed that her side was firmer than my side, even thought we both got the Medium latex. We just switched it to see if it helps my back, but I’m really not a fan of how squishy the coils are, especially at the edges. And there are certain spots where the bed really “gives” too much underneath, like if I sit where my head usually goes, I sink down quite a bit, if that makes sense.
I’m thinking of returning it and picking up a 3-layer all-latex mattress from SleepEZ, but I’m not sure if this is a better or worse option than a hybrid for my weight, height, and sleep preferences. (My wife is way lower maintenance than me, so she doesn’t care what we get)

As you can see by comparing the Mattress Specifications You Need To Know to the Mattress Durability Guidelines, latex is one of the most durable materials you can have in a mattress…and while many consumers enjoy the feel of an innerspring mattress, others don’t, feeling, as you have found, it to feel too ‘squishy’. It’s good your wife is ‘totally open’ to whatever mattress you find comfortable, so you effectively just need to consider data points for your own sleep profile, making things a bit simpler.

As you have had prior back surgery and have a higher BMI you need to consider both your desired firmness in your comfort layer(s) and your support needs; a too-soft comfort layer can allow you to ‘sink’ too far potentially bottoming out on the firmer layers below, which can also cause muscle aches and pains and even alignment issues…you just need to find the ‘sweet spot’ between the two.

An all latex mattress from Trusted Member SleepEZ is a sound plan…as they carry great quality latex mattresses- though if possible you might want to try an all-latex mattress in a local showroom, just to see if you like the feel before committing; @CST also has a great point, as they use a body profile that takes into account the measurements for each sleeper, and they can create a customized modular sleep system which you may find addresses your comfort and specific support needs. They, or any of the Trusted Members of the site will be able to assist you in finding your perfect sleep system. Hoping others chime in with their thoughts as well.

~ Basilio

Hello ‘helpwanted’, I think your on the right track looking into an all latex mattress. I do want to point out however, with Latex top to bottom, head to foot, when all your weight is concentrated in one area, for example: sitting on the edge of your bed to put shoes on, or sitting up in bed, you will sink into the mattress more than you may be used too. As a side back sleeper, i would have to recommend a zoned mattress, especially with the lower back issues you’ve had in the past.
The ability to change the firmness from head to toe giving your lower back proper support, and your shoulder and hips the pressure relief they need, has been a game changer for many side/back sleepers.
Based on your heights and weights i would recommend this setup below:


Your side being on the right, her’s being on the left. At FloBeds we understand that not only is everyone built differently, carrying weight in different regions etc. But we have different preferences, so we allow a 100 night trial to micro tune your mattress at no additional charge.
I hope this helps, any clarifications, feel free to reach out to us!

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Thanks for all these great answers. I really appreciate it. I like the idea of a zoned system, but the price tag on those cause a whole different kind of pain!

I was hoping I could get away with the Sleep EZ three-layer latex system, since it’s relatively affordable (same price I paid for the Owl) and I could move the layers around a bunch and do exchanges to try to get the right feel, but maybe that’s not realistic given my specific issues and preferences.

Hi helpwanted,

A ‘zoned’ system might be what you need, as carried by Flobeds the V Zone has some additional fine tuning options for more specifically addressing your health concerns, as might an all latex sleep system from SleepEZ or the modular beds from CST…but as the specific feel of latex is not universally liked, again, if possible, try one out locally just to check the feel. Once you decide, they, or any of the Trusted Members of the site can help you to find a great match for your sleep profile.

~ Basilio

Hello helpwanted,
We agree with the zoned system to give you support where you need it. I also wanted to mention that it is good to consider the type of latex as there are two kinds - Dunlop and Talalay. In a nutshell, Dunlop is a firmer feel and Talalay is softer. Also, it is good to see if layers are wrapped, as this cuts down on sliding and wear and tear for a longer-lasting mattress. Some brands will let you swap layers after purchase in order to get the best feel for you. Good luck with your shopping!
-Kathleen

Just to clarify a bit - there is a noticeable difference between Talalay and Dunlop, and it’s not really that Talalay is softer than Dunlop. Most people and companies say Talalay is softer just because that’s an easier way to explain it. You can actually have a soft Dunlop layer that’s softer or firmer than a soft Talalay and a medium Talalay that’s softer or firmer than a medium Dunlop, etc. The real difference comes down to how they react when being compressed. Talalay is bouncier and springier and is generally better at contour and pressure relief on your hips and shoulders. Dunlop is denser and firmer and is generally better at support and maintaining proper spinal alignment so our most common configuration is Talalay for the top layer and Dunlop for the bottom 2 layers. We will recommend Talalay for two or more layers for customers that have things like fibromyalgia, shingles, chronic hip pain, chronic shoulder pain, or anything where they’re sensitive to pressure, or for customers that just prefer a bouncier / springier feel. Outside of those circumstances, a combination of Talalay and Dunlop offers the best chance to be successful for the average person. Again, the best way I can summarize the differences would be to say that Talalay is better at pressure relief on your hips and shoulders and Dunlop is better at maintaining proper spinal alignment and avoiding back pain. However, Talalay can also be helpful in avoiding back pain because it provides more of what we call secondary support. Secondary support fills in the gaps between your body and the mattress. For side sleepers, this is normally the area between a person’s ribs and waist. For back sleepers, this is normally the area between the small of your back and the mattress. If these parts or your body aren’t being held up by the mattress, your muscles will work all night to hold those parts of your body up, which can lead to back pain. Aside from that, women tend to be curvier, especially around their hips, and having a top layer of Talalay can help avoid hip pain and keep the mattress from pushing their hips up, which can also lead to back pain. As such, most of our customers definitely benefit from having one layer of Talalay on top, and Dunlop for the rest of the mattress, but it’s completely up to you what you would like to order.

Aside from all that, based on the information you’ve provided, I think the 10" organic latex mattress would be a great choice! I’ve included some information on how to decide on the different mattresses just below. In short, though, we would normally recommend soft Talalay over medium Dunlop over firm Dunlop for both sides of the mattress. The top Talalay layer should provide all the contour and pressure relief needed to avoid any pressure point issues and will add secondary support to the mattress. The remaining Dunlop layers should provide all the support needed to maintain proper spinal alignment and avoid back pain. Please keep in mind that our initial recommendations have a 90% success rate (we only have a 10% layer exchange rate and a 3%-4% return rate) so there’s a 90% chance that the above recommendation works perfectly for you.

Even though both sides would be the same, I would still recommend splitting all of your layers. About 95% of our mattresses go out with all split layers from top to bottom, and we get zero complaints on being able to feel the split and we get zero complaints about the layers shifting or anything like that. If all of your layers are split, you will always be able to adjust your side without affecting your partner’s side and vice versa, and you’ll have that option for the entire 20 year lifespan of the mattress. Additionally, the mattress will be easier to assemble, easier to move if needed, easier to do any layer exchanges if needed, and easier to return if needed. There really are no downsides to having all split layers.

Latex and coil hybrids typically last 10-15 years and all-latex mattresses typically last 15-20 years. All-latex mattresses offer a much finer degree of adjustability than latex and coil hybrids do. All-latex mattresses can be adjusted to be slightly softer, moderately softer, much softer, or slightly firmer, moderately firmer, much firmer. You can increase the pressure relief slightly, moderately, or vastly. You can increase the back support slightly, moderately, or vastly. Since latex and coil hybrids normally have only 2 components (3" of latex and the coils) you really have limited options to adjust the mattress, and any change that is made is normally a big change. Not everyone needs the level of adjustability that the all-latex mattress offers, but based on your experience and the information you provided, I think it would be a great choice!

Thanks for this detailed reply. I was looking at the 10" organic mattress, actually, because I like the idea of being able to adjust it if I need to.

We also realized finally the past few nights that the Nest Owl is sagging just a little bit down the center, forming a slight valley, and I think that might account for some of my back pain. We have a solid wood bed frame, with a beam running down the middle, anchored by two feet to the floor, so I’m wondering now if the coils might be the problem.

My favorite part of the Owl in terms of feel and comfort is the latex layer, which I believe is Talalay (it says it on the label that is cut in half). So this all makes me even more interested in an all-latex set-up, since I can’t see how latex would sag, although I suppose it’s possible that the latex is the problem here.

Also, our old bed was an early-era Casper, so I’m not totally unfamiliar with all-foam set-ups, though I know they didn’t use latex in their base, but something super stiff, which I actually kind of liked, just not for the top part.

Just want to put in a plug for SleepEZ. Years ago I got a mattress for our daughter from them (Roma) and since then a topper for my husband. Very reliable.

For my decamping needs when hubby snores I got a shikbuton and added some 1" toppers from Sleep on Latex. But I can vouch for SleepEZ. Very high quality.