Help making the latex I have right or buying new.

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi Phoenix Your Amazing thanks for all your Help!

I need some help/ frank advice to make a decision. To refresh your memory I bought a Live for tomorrow mattress used online. I can’t seem to make the layers function like the mattresses I tried at The Natural Mattress Store and Elsewhere (naturapedic, Organipedic). I am wondering if I made the right decision or if I should get rid of the mattress on CL and start over. IT doesn’t offer the same support that the newer beds I have tried offer, I wonder if its truly natural foam. My parents latex mattress seems much more dense and quality.

I included pics for your review.

How do you tell if the latex is truly natural or quality (it has a organic cotton cover over it). Do I cut the cover and push on it or some other test? The current configuration is medium over soft over firm. I don’t like Soft over medium over firm as I don’t feel as supported and it does not feel as soft. Do I buy a firm piece of dunlop or medium to make 12"? I am a 6’3" 180 back and side sleeper with back problems.

My favorite configurations
Natural Mattress Store (their latex seems to be firmer and more dense):
3" soft tallay - (ild 20-24), 3" medium talalay - (ild 25-30), 3" firm dunlop - (ild 35-40).
3" soft tallay - (ild 20-24), 3" medium dunlop - (ild 20-24), 3" firm dunlop - (ild 35-40).
3" extra soft tallay - (ild 16-24), 3" soft tallay - (ild 20-24), 3" soft tallay - (ild 20-24), 3" firm dunlop - (ild 35-40).
Savvy Sernentiy w/ Harmony topper I liked 4" soft talalay (ild ?), 3" soft dunlop (ild), 3" soft dunlop (ild), 3" medium dunlop (ild)

Select foam will sell me a 80% natural mattress from some company called mountain top foam of C2 Medium C3 Medium Firm C4Firm should I just get this all new?

How do you tell ILD if these companies won’t tell you, natural mattress store won’t tell me, savvy wont tell me, select foam doesn’t know, and brooklyn bed does not know. IF you don’t know the ilds of the layers how do you know how dense the latex is, for instance one company may call their foam firm but it may have more density or latex in it making it hard to determine by soft,med, firm , etc what exactly I need by the mattresses I have tried and liked. If I like for instance a combination yet a online retailer is selling all dunlop how do I recreate the feel I liked with tally and dunlop above with a all dunlop configuration?

Which am I:
Average weight = average thickness and softness of the comfort layers and average support layers.

Above average weight = thicker and firmer comfort layers and firmer support layers

Below average weight = thinner and softer comfort layers and possibly softer or average support layers.

I guess I am curvier so I need soft and thicker comfort layers?
“Uneven weight distribution and curvier than average body shape= softer/thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers many people prefer something that lets them sink in more deeply than they really “need” simply because they like the “cushy” feel”

Typically I like the beds that can support my board shoulders and big lumbar gap in my back while supporting the areas that are heavier or softer.

How do I tell if comfort layers that are much too thick?

2

Hi passionate4nature,

I cant feel what you feel on a mattress so there is really no way for anyone (including me) to know how someone will feel on any combination of layering that would be more accurate than your own personal experience but the good news is that your mattress has layers that can be re-arranged to change how the mattress feels and performs so your own trial and error is really the best direction to go.

I should also mention that it’s not really possible to “match” another mattress that has a different design although you may be able to somewhat approximate it. To do this and guess at the layering that you have that would come closest you would need to know the exact details of the mattresses you tested. If that’s not available … then once again your own trial and error is the only way available to you.

All latex is a good quality material regardless of type but it’s not really possible for most people to tell the difference between the different types because they can all look similar or different depending on how they were made, who manufactures the latex, and the mold that was used to make them (in some cases they are also poured on a belt). In most cases only people who work with latex every day would really be able to tell the difference. Unless you are familiar with the specific type of material that is in your mattress (if you could even see it) you would be depending on the knowledge and reputation of the manufacturer or retailer who makes and sells it. Dunlop latex is much more dense than Talalay although they are both high quality materials so this may account for the difference you noticed.

With the layers you have … the closest approximation to the S/M/F that you liked at the natural mattress store and others would be to use the same layering (S/M/F).

Unless a manufacturer provides you with this information … there would be no way for you to know the specific ILD. While many will tell you and online manufacturers will almost always tell you … there is really no reason for a local manufacturer to provide this information because it doesn’t make any difference to the quality or value of a mattress and personal testing is much more accurate in terms of knowing the suitability of a mattress than knowing the ILD information.

I don’t know what this is but it’s probably continuous pour Dunlop. Mountain Top foam makes latex foam for Sealy. I can’t answer what you “should do” because that’s up to your own best judgement and your own personal value equation but if I was in your shoes I would probably take advantage of the options you already have first and use the mattress you have in different configurations before considering buying another mattress. I would also not try to make your mattress match another mattress you have tested (and subjective comparisons and memory is not particularly accurate anyway when you are comparing mattresses unless it is side by side in real time) but I would evaluate your current mattress by how well it meets your needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) instead of how well it compares to another mattress.

I would start with S/M/F and then see if any “symptoms” you have on this layering indicate you may need to re-arrange the layers to change the pressure relief or the support. I would also sleep on each combination for long enough to make sure that what you feel is a good indicator of your long term experience. Once you have tried this for a couple of weeks (which is the minimum I would suggest so you can get used to a new sleeping surface) … then if you post your specific experiences and any “symptoms” you have I may be able to give you some feedback about a different layering arrangement that may be worth trying based on your actual experience. If you have already tried this combination and you have back symptoms or pain that may indicate you need firmer support (or you want to start with a more supportive option) then you could try S/F/M.

The guidelines are only guidelines and meant to help give you some insights into general layering patterns. There are too many variables to use any “theory at a distance” to decide on what design may be best for any specific person or set of circumstances and your own testing or sleeping experiences (or conversations with manufacturers or retailers if you are buying a new mattress) are always the best way to make these types of decisions. You are fortunate in that your mattress gives you the options of re-arranging layers and that is where I would start … at least if I was in your shoes.

Phoenix

3

Phonenix,

Do you have a contact in the SF Bay area that could tell me if my latex is fake (like foamorder.com or community mattress or something)? IT feels more brittle, maybe it was trimmed or something and not finished in a mold and it feels softer than a medium should feel. I need someone to look at it, maybe some of your advice to tell if its a chemical latex or organic latex as I don’t know the difference should feel other than what I have seen it in the zip mattresses and it was finished and more dense for talalay 3" pieces. It was manufactured in 2008 by Live for Tomorrow. On the tag it says 90% Latex, 5% Organic Wool, 5 % Organic Cotton. It says model zen-m-5. It says on their website below that Dunlop came from Latex International and Talalay from Latex Green. What I wonder is if they lied about where they got their latex from or whats in it as they lied to many customers and frauded them. Also when they say natural latex, which was made 5 years ago by Latex Green (if it was truly made by them) would this be a 70/30 blend or something?

Here is the link to the mattress on their website:

Thanks,
Dan

4

Hi passionate4nature,

This is actually the other way around and the Talalay would come from Latex International and the Dunlop from Latex Green.

I really don’t think there is such a thing as “fake” latex Unless it is polyfoam that is being described as latex) and all latex is a good quality material compared to other foams as long as it really is latex. I would very much doubt that the material in your mattresses isn’t what is on the law tag. To tell for sure though you would need to remove the cover and take it to someone that was familiar with latex or perhaps even specific types of latex and I think the only thing you would probably accomplish is finding out that it really is latex after all. I think your “worry” is probably needless.

Both types of latex that are probably in your mattress are poured in a mold (not “finished” in a mold) but even continuous pour latex that is poured on a belt is a good quality material … although I doubt that that is what is in your mattress.

Don’t forget too that “comfort” ratings like soft, medium, and firm are very subjective and different people may rate the same materials differently when they are using “word ratings”. Most consumers really wouldn’t have the experience to accurately “rate” the firmness of a latex layer although in most cases they could probably tell which one was firmer of sorter than the others as long as they weren’t too close together in firmness/softness.

It’s possible that the latex was exposed to ultraviolet light or ozone which could oxidize it and make it “brittle” (see the pictures here) but the layers are covered so this isn’t likely either.

If you can see or feel the pincores through the covers then it’s almost certainly “real” latex and most likely from the sources that their website mentions.

No … Latex Green makes 100% natural Dunlop (then and now). Latex International makes a 70% synthetic / 30% natural blended Talalay as well as a 100% natural Talalay. 5 years ago there was no latex made that had an organic certification.

If you did want to take one of the layers to a local manufacturer to ask their opinion … then the San Francisco list is in post #2 here and if you took your layers to any of them that worked with latex they could probably confirm whether your layers were latex and if they were familiar with the specifics of your layers they may even be able to tell you which type it is.

Phoenix

5

How does this look to you? I’ll checkout maybe foamorder.com and see if they can help since they cut latex.

Thanks again !!
Dan

6

Hi passionate4nature,

It’s definitely molded latex but more than that I can’t really tell much from the picture because I can’t see the whole layer.

Phoenix