I’ve been lurking for some time now and I have read most of the helpful articles on selecting and buying a mattress. It’s this forum that led me to Amazon. I’m an avid Amazon shopper who is grateful to this forum for leading me to the Ultimate Dreams mattress.
Where I need help is in deciding between the Ultimate Dreams Ultra Plush (Talalay) and the Ultimate Dreams Natural Latex (Dunlop & Wool). Can you help me with making this decision. I’m also currently struggling between the full and queen size, which is probably a personal choice but thought that I’d throw that in there just in case.
Only one person will sleep in it at a time, most often me. I am 5’3" 180 lbs, with most of my weight carried in the middle and hips. I am a side sleeper I kind of twist to lay partially on stomach while holding a pillow against my stomach and chest.
The last 6 months or so I have been experiencing a lot of neck and shoulder pain that is growing in frequency and intensity, now includes my shoulders and sometimes I can literally feel my spine as being a separate part of me (I hope you know what I mean). At first I thought it was my pillow and I now own a closet full of them. I’m sure that my pillows also contribute but I now feel that the mattress it the major culprit. There is a slight cup now and it seems to have less cush everywhere but in the foot and head. I have been spinning the mattress regularly and even more frequently now - once a month or more. In the past I bought a cuddle topper but even with that I eventually end up with the same experience, even after fluffing.
I currently sleep on a queen Comfort Solutions Natural Response in firm (the softer one cost was more but the one I really loved). This is the one here: Comfort Solutions Natural Response Mattress Line
Do you think that the Dreamfoam beds are the answer for me and would one serve me better than the other? I do prefer a soft, cloud, sinking in experience with good support.
My last question is about the Natural Response mattress. Do you think that I could successfully take it apart to build a better mattress?
Thank you for your help and all that you do,
Sheila
I was looking at both of those too. I like the idea of the more natural offerings as I am sensitive to chemical smells, even most perfumes. But I also am a side sleeper and like a soft bed. So far from what I see the dunlop is a firmer latex. I do love wool though.
Hi Woofman. I like the idea of the wool but have never slept on wool, beneath it (boot camp) but no on it. I’m hoping it wouldn’t make me hotter when my temperature flairs.
Actually I had the same impressions of wool until a few years ago. I am an avid outdoorsman and one of my favorite activities is fishing. Here on LI we fish on the beaches often well past Thanksgiving. I also enjoy kayaking, hiking, cycling and other outdoor sports. After having problems with sweaty feet and never wearing insulated boots, which are hard to find these days, someone advised wool socks. Well the outcome is that wool is now what I wear all year, even in the summer, just a lighter weight. The socks are usually merino or alpaca but my feet stay much cooler and dryer in the wool then in cotton or even specialty socks like dryweave. As a bonus they do not get smelly and keep you far warmer then any other materials when wet. They also do not cost more overall as the life of them is far superior. I also now have wool shirts for base layers and wool undies. Can’t imagine wool would be a probelm in a bed, especially because I also now use a merino wool blanket.
The two main differences between these two mattresses is in the type of latex that they use and in the wool quilting. I think that woofman did a great job describing the benefits of wool (thanks woofman :)) and it is one of the most temperature regulating and humidity controlling fibers there is. It can absorb over 30% of it’s weight in moisture without feeling wet (and keeping the skin surface dry) because it stores moisture inside the fiber. Controlling humidity and breathability is the one of the most important parts of temperature regulation. If you go outside on a hot day with high humidity you will feel very warm but the same temperature on a low humidity day will feel much cooler. It’s the same with the humidity levels next to the skin with a mattress and wool controls this better than almost any other material.
Both the Talalay and Dunlop latex that they use can be chosen for firmness level but Dunlop in the same ILD as talalay will feel a little firmer and a little less lively (it is denser than Talalay and gets firmer faster with compression). In other words … they “feel” a little different although both are high quality materials. there is more about the different types of latex in this article.
As you mention … a pillow can play an important role in the alignment of the head and neck (which is an important part of sleeping in “neutral” alignment" but the mattress itself also needs to allow your shoulders to sink in far enough for neutral alignment as well. This is part of the “art and science” of mattress design and “fitting” a mattress to each person and is part of why certain thicknesses and firmness levels and combinations work better or worse for different people. There is lots more about this in the “sleeping style, preferences, and statistics” section and in the “putting the layers together” section of the site. What may be happening is that some of the layers on top of your mattress may have softened enough that you “going through” them more and feeling more of the firmness of the layers underneath them.
Mattress design can be quite complex though (and often counter intuitive such as when foam softening leads to a firmer mattress) … especially if you haven’t actually tried all the different combinations and styles in person … so I would scan the basic information so that you have a better idea and can ask better questions when you are talking to Chuck about the firmness level of the mattress. They know every detail of their mattresses and their customer base is also a good reference point that can help them help you make better choices. The manufacturer themselves is always the best source of the guidance that can help you choose the softness level that you both believe would work best (based on your discussions, on the averages of other people, and on any local testing you have done which can act as a guideline).
Most of the materials in this mattress are good quality but there are a couple of layers that may be contributing to the problem such as the convoluted foam in the quilting (it doesn’t say how thick this is) and the Supersoft extended comfort life (it also doesn’t provide details of this layer). Sometimes when you are “on the edge” of what you need in a mattress then small changes in the firmness of the foam can make quite a big difference. The “weak link” of a mattress in combination with where in your pressure relief and alignment “tolerance range” you are is what determines how long a mattress will work well for each person … no matter how many good quality layers it may have.
This would take a much longer conversation on the phone for me to even begin to know and I would also need a reference point of the specifics of a mattress that you had slept on (layer thickness and ILD of each layer) in order to try to figure out the specifics of how a new mattress may need to be different from the one you have. The general guidelines on the site (that I linked earlier) are based on averages and are as close as I could get without specific more detailed information that was “matched” to a specific mattress. A manufacturer will have a much better idea about a specific mattress that they make or sell because they have many different people with different body types, sleeping types, and preferences that can act as reference points.
I would need to know more details about the layering but in theory yes … especially if the layers are loose and not laminated.
Your mattress has some good materials in it that are quite likely to be in good condition and if you add or remove the “offending” layers and add what you may need along with a cover to encase it all … you could end up with a very good mattress. The difficulty though may be in finding out or estimating the specifics of what is in it so you know what to add or remove in your new design. There are certainly some good quality layers in it along with layers that are probably still in good condition that could be used as part of a “re-build” IMO … if you were up for the challenge (and sometimes frustration) of it.
Thank you for your, as usual, through and personal response Phoenix.
We are big diy people and I’d hate to just get rid of the mattress. However, if it wasn’t a practical project…
So now I find the wool even more enticing but I still wonder if I can be as well served by the dunlop as I would by the talalay. And whether or not it would be more practical to buy the talalay a tad firmer (considering a 7 or 8) knowing that a quality wool topper could be in my future. Did I just talk myself through this dilemma? No, but I am closer and not as up tight which is the frame of mind I want to have before talking to Chuck.
Since you’re a side sleeper, which would prefer - dunlop or talalay?
Given some of the materials that are in your mattress … and if you were just going to throw it anyway so you had nothing to lose … I would certainly be tempted to at least play with rebuilding it … especially if you enjoy DIY projects. Even if you buy a new mattress … it can be kind of fun to open a mattress and see what is in it. The cost of good quality materials and a good cover (if you don’t re-use the one you have) can add up though so it takes a bit of research, testing, and planning instead of more “random” choices where you can end up buying some expensive materials that don’t work as well as you hoped.
My personal preference … in the right thickness and ILD … is talalay. This is not because it’s “better” but I do prefer the feel and response of a Talalay comfort layer vs. Dunlop. Of course … the next 10 people you talk with may have a completely different preference
At the very least I hope to get at least a good core and one layer of latex. I know that if they are fused I may only get the core (thinking I can turn it over after removing the layers).
BTW, my husband sews and I’m sure we can cover the rebuilt in a decent enduring manner with a quality cotton or bamboo. I will most likely add a topper too.
The description of the mattress says the core layers are partly latex and partly polyfoam …
[b]Perfect Response Latex Core: The naturally derived latex core, with it’s spring like resiliency, returns to its original shape faster than memory foam to help resist body impressions.
Perfect Foam Core: This Eco-friendly, soy-based core provides a luxurious balance of comfort, support, and durability for a natural nights’ sleep.[/b]
These support layers should both be fine (along with the latex in the upper layers) and as you mentioned it really would be a shame to throw away premium materials that will probably have many years of life left in them (although the specs don’t say the thickness of each layer.
I’m not sure what “springs” you mean (this mattress doesn’t have springs).
I got confused when I went looking to see if I could find an image of the construction. Someone must have an incorrect image. I didn’t think I had springs either and after seeing that pic that must be so well wrapped and so much other layers on it that I can’t feel them. I really do need a good night’s sleep. Thank you for confirming what I believed all along.
I should also mention that the materials that are in the link you provided are only generic and have nothing to do with what may be in your particular mattress. They are a list of “ingredients” that they use in the whole line and not of the materials that are in your mattress. It may be worthwhile to see if you can find out the specific layers that are in your mattress so you can better determine whether they are worth “saving”.
For example … your support core may be latex or polyfoam and the upper layers could be a combination of both as well. If there is a lot of latex … particularly in the thicker support layers … it would be more worth “rebuilding” than it would if your mattress only included thin layers of latex in the comfort layers.
Of course if you did decide to open it up … you would quickly be able to find out for sure but I would only tend to go there if you knew that it was a choice between that and throwing the mattress away.
BTW, my model has a euro pillow top and there’s latex in there too. I believe the thick quilting is poly batting around a core of latex. My model has the same cover as the the one I linked to (with scattered horrid black buttons) but with euro top.
It’s still a really nice mattress. If I had bought soft instead of firm, I don’t think I would be experiencing problems. The salesman said that it would soften in time like the display but it hasn’t and I think the poly is compressing. Just getting the euro top off and adding a nice layer of talalay would improve the experience so much. I’m actually wondering if it would be worth giving a 2 or 3 inch topper, on top of the euro, a try before I do anything drastic. What do you think?
The polyfoam won’t compress so much as soften (fibers will compress and foam will soften) but if the foam that is softening is over firmer materials … then it will allow the firmness of the layers below them to come through more. It’s difficult to know what may be happening without knowing the details of the layers in the mattress.
In your earlier post you mentioned …
[quote]The last 6 months or so I have been experiencing a lot of neck and shoulder pain that is growing in frequency and intensity, now includes my shoulders and sometimes I can literally feel my spine as being a separate part of me (I hope you know what I mean). At first I thought it was my pillow and I now own a closet full of them. I’m sure that my pillows also contribute but I now feel that the mattress it the major culprit. There is a slight cup now and it seems to have less cush everywhere but in the foot and head. I have been spinning the mattress regularly and even more frequently now - once a month or more. In the past I bought a cuddle topper but even with that I eventually end up with the same experience, even after fluffing.
and …
Only one person will sleep in it at a time, most often me. I am 5’3" 180 lbs, with most of my weight carried in the middle and hips. I am a side sleeper I kind of twist to lay partially on stomach while holding a pillow against my stomach and chest.
[/quote]
From this and based on speculation … it seems that the mattress comfort layers may be too firm to allow your shoulders to sink in far enough which is probably causing the pressure issues along with issues of alignment of the head and neck and upper body.
If this is the case … then a topper would probably help but foam such as latex would likely be better than a cuddle topper or featherbed type of topper which would only provide some surface softness instead of a conforming pressure relieving layer and it could actually reduce the amount your shoulders are sinking into the comfort layers (it would increase the surface area around your shoulders that was compressing the mattress).
The risk of a topper that was too thick (in combination with the upper layers of your mattress) would be that it would put the heavier parts of your body too far away from the support layers and allow them to sink down too far which could shift the issue from your upper body to your lower body alignment. It would be very helpful to know what was in the mattress to make a better assessment but I would think that a 2" soft latex layer would probably help and keeping it on the thin side would reduce the risk of shifting the alignment issue to your lower back.
If the issue is that there is too much polyfoam in the mattress and this has softened under your pelvis area … then a topper would still follow the dip of the softened foam underneath it although it would help slightly but if the biggest issue is that the comfort layers under your shoulder is too firm and there is no major sagging under your hips then a good talalay latex topper would probably work.
There isn’t what I would call a major dip, just a slight cupping. I believe that the problem is the poly has softened just enough to feel the firmness in my upper region. It’s good to hear that 2" would be sufficient. I was thinking 3" would be needed to reduce the possibility of telegraphing what’s underneath and so your comment regarding major sagging has given me the confidence I need to make a selection. I have a few bookmarked and doubled checked those with your posts. Thanks again for the help and wealth of information.
I don’t know this for sure of course (because I don’t know enough details about you or the mattress) but it would certainly be a less risky choice and would be the direction I would go.
