(I also posted this question on FaceBook)
First off, I found this website in an attempt to become more educated before buying a new mattress–Thank You for an amazing resource! VERY supportive (pun intended 
As the subject line indicates, I am living in Madrid, Spain, and would like to know if you, any of membership, or any of your members have any advice with regards to manufacturers and dealers here in Spain.
Thanks a lot-
Bill
Hi TinkerBill,
Welcome to the Mattress Forum! 
I think you are the first member here I know of from Spain.
I personally know little to nothing about the Spanish market and the language barrier makes research there more difficult (and hopefully other members will know more) but I believe the same basic principles of focusing more on materials than on brand, avoiding larger more mass produced manufacturers, and researching and finding smaller local manufacturers or sleep shops that are more knowledgeable, experienced, and informed would be just as beneficial in Spain as it would be in North America. They tend to be more responsive to their local reputation and customers’ needs than they are to higher profit margins along a longer supply chain, advertise less, and put more “quality” into their mattresses at each price point. They tend to “educate” rather than simply “sell”.
While finding these can be somewhat of a challenge because they are not as visible … it is usually well worth the effort.
The basic steps outlined here (some basic research into materials and mattress types and construction, knowing what to avoid, researching your local manufacturers and sleep shops, testing mattresses, and choosing between final choices that are all “good options” based on your needs and preferences) should be just as helpful in Spain as they are here.
I hope you have the chance to let us know about some of your discoveries and of course if any of the members here have more knowledge of the mattresses or manufacturers or any better choices that are available in Spain I’d welcome their input.
Phoenix
First off, thank you again for your prompt and supportive reply, and for this great site. I have learned so much about mattresses (colchones in Español) and mattress shopping…whew! I made .pdfs of all the information overviews and underlying pages, and referred to them often while shopping.
I would like some advice, but first some observations about Spain: it seems that the market (and marketing) here is remarkably (depressingly?) similar to the States, in pretty much every respect. That should tell you a lot. I was certainly more educated than almost all of the salespeople, and in fact we are planning on buying from the salesperson who was the most knowledgeable, because we really appreciated his knowledge and customer service. We are even having him order the mattress we want even though he doesn’t normally sell that line in his store, just because we liked him so much we wanted to give him our business.
WARNING: I am including a LOT of information here, thinking that it will help you in advising me, not wanting to send you on a web search if you don’t want/need to. I hope it’s not overkill. As thorough as you are, I don’t think it will be
We have laid on many, MANY mattresses, in about eight stores. I certainly have a much greater appreciation for the range of quality offered. I also discovered that something that has been true about me for all my life is true here, too: I swear, you could put me in a blind taste test of the horse pee of Kentucky Derby champions (I know, eeww, but stay with me), and I would be able to pick out which one drank the most expensive water. Without knowing the prices in advance, I easily gravitated toward the most expensive mattresses offered. I was hoping to end up with something in the 500-800 Euro range (don’t try to convert, just think dollars), and am instead looking at 2,400-2,700 Euros.
So here’s where we ended up, choosing between two mattresses both made by Epeda (www.epeda.fr). They are owned by one of the biggest European mattress conglomerates, Pikolin. We looked for smaller dealers/manufacturers, and found little to choose from. Epeda also makes the MyBed mattresses used by sofitel (sofitel.com), a luxury hotel chain that has worked very hard to brand their sleeping experience, going to far as to offer their complete sleeping package for sale in their online boutique. Epeda has also been making mattresses since 1914. Their website is very informative too, with films of their mattress construction. Refreshingly, even though they sell via different dealers, they don’t do the name-switch thing.
The two mattresses are:
The Active Premium <[url=http://www.epeda.fr/Dedicace-Actif-Premium,350.html]http://www.epeda.fr/Dedicace-Actif-Premium,350.html[/url]> full tech spec .pdf here: <[url=http://www.epeda.fr/IMG/pdf/E_GG_DEDICACE_ACTIF_PREMIUM_2012_FC-2.pdf]http://www.epeda.fr/IMG/pdf/E_GG_DEDICACE_ACTIF_PREMIUM_2012_FC-2.pdf[/url]> and a great film showing the inner construction at <[url=http://www.epeda.fr/Le-film-Epeda-multi-actif.html]http://www.epeda.fr/Le-film-Epeda-multi-actif.html[/url]>. All in French, but Google Translate translates the terms thusly:
(description
7 comfort zones multi-active Technology
8 cm visco (heart + to winter and summer) sleeping 2 faces Face winter cashmere response was: natural silk
finishes
100% viscose jacquard fabric Padding through the mattress, hand-knotted Fairing integral reinforced handles four horizontal embroidered
Mattress associated
Association for soft comfort ideal mattress / boxspring
Support adjusted shoulders, lower back, pelvis latest generation of mattress springs: dimensionally stable and ventilated
Wrapping material, soft and pampering home more healthy and sustainable
Home fluffy, heat retaining softness and lightness, thermoregulation
Softness and shine
Home sweet sustainable
Tradition and know-how to the French Assisi comfortable lateral Easy handling and aesthetics)
and
The Air Premium <[url=http://www.epeda.fr/Dedicace-Air-Premium,348.html]http://www.epeda.fr/Dedicace-Air-Premium,348.html[/url]> full tech spec .pdf here: <[url=http://www.epeda.fr/IMG/pdf/E_GG_DEDICACE_AIR_PREMIUM_2012_FC-2.pdf]http://www.epeda.fr/IMG/pdf/E_GG_DEDICACE_AIR_PREMIUM_2012_FC-2.pdf[/url]> with a film also here <[url=http://www.epeda.fr/le-film-epeda-multi-air.html]http://www.epeda.fr/le-film-epeda-multi-air.html[/url]>. Google translation:
(description
7 comfort zones 1200 pocket springs multi-air
4 cm natural latex (winter and summer) 6 cm latex (heart) 2 faces sleeping face winter cashmere Face summer silk
finishes
100% viscose jacquard fabric Padding through the mattress, hand-knotted Fairing integral reinforced handles four horizontal embroidered
Mattress associated
Association for soft comfort ideal mattress / boxspring
Support adjusted shoulders, lower back, pelvis Renewal of air mattress 10 times a night, thanks to the patented air-regen
Material derived from rubber, flexible sustainable home comfort morphological depth
Healthier and more sustainable
Home fluffy, heat retention
Sweetness and light, thermoregulation
Softness and shine
Home sweet sustainable
Tradition and know-how to the French Assisi comfortable lateral Easy handling and aesthetics)
The Active Premium hasa support core with continuous coils interlaced with foam, and a comfort layer of viscoelastic (their term for memory foam) and an outer layer of natural materials. It was the initially-softer of the two models, and both my partner and I felt like we were laying on a slice of heaven.
The Air Premium has a support core of pocket coils, with a comfort layer of latex and similar outer layer of natural materials. It was the firmer of the two models, which surprised me. I expected the pocket coils and latex to make the mattress softer.
It’s a toss-up between the two. We like the softer Active Premium, but are a little concerned that it might be less durable in the long run than the firmer Air Premium because it’s softer. Is that crazy? I’m a big guy (6’4", 270) and my partner is much smaller (about 5’6", 140). I’m the one with more back/hip aches, sink more into the mattress, and need great support. I went into this thinking I’d want a really firm mattress, and was surprised to find that I liked a softer one than I thought I would. (I also laid on a totally-Talaly mattress that I really liked.) We also felt that, on the Active Premium/continuous coils mattress we felt a very slight propensity to sink toward each other, and didn’t on the Air Premium/pocket coils mattress. I was also surprised that I liked the one with viscoelastic/memory foam, and found it softer, as I generally don’t like memory foam–I usually feel sucked in by it, and feel like turing over is like moving through quicksand.
(You’ll love this: the mattress salesman at the store that actually carries these mattresses told us that the innards were exactly the opposite from what they were, and his sales manager agreed, even though there were little brass ID plaques on the mattresses and little brochures attached to each mattress, describing their construction. We didn’t realize the difference until the salesman at the store that doesn’t even carry these mattresses did some research and corrected our misinformation.)
Any thoughts you could share on these would be SO appreciated. I know they are confusingly similar: Active vs. Air, etc.
Btw, I tried to attach those .pdfs here, and couldn’t.
Thank you again for your help!
Bill
Hi TinkerBill,
Unfortunately … I suspect that the issues in the industry are pretty much common in most developed countries with lack of disclosure and the selling of “stories” and profit margin instead of educating customers about materials and helping them to make more meaningful and value based choices.
I think too this is also by “design” in many cases. Larger manufacturers are well aware of how to make lower quality materials feel better in a showroom (using various layering designs and thicker padding) and even though you can’t feel quality … they certainly know that people are willing to pay for feel no matter what the quality of the materials that creates it. This is generally where the difference in where you shop comes into play. It’s not so much that higher quality materials feel better but that smaller local manufacturers and/or better sleep shops have mattresses that feel the same but use higher quality materials to accomplish it so what you feel in a showroom will last much longer.
the Active premium doesn’t indicate the quality of the memory foam (which generally feels softer than latex) and I would want to know this before buying it. Even if it was 5 lb memory foam though … the latex (depending to some degree on the type of latex) would likely be more durable. In an apples to apples comparison … softer versions of the same material are generally less durable than firmer versions but in a latex to memory foam comparison then latex would generally be more durable.
The pocket coils are also a more costly component than continuous coils (which are generally the least expensive type of innerspring).
This would also be fairly typical because continuous coils are joined together with helical wires and will affect adjoining coils much more than pocket coils which compress independently from each other.
Many of the newer generation memory foams are more responsive and less temperature sensitive than the older generation memory foams. In some cases this can be because they are lower density (less durable) and in others it can be higher density memory foam formulations which are manufactured specifically to produce different properties. You can see some of the differences that are possible in manufacturing memory foam in post #9 here along with post #8 here. The key is to make sure that you know the density of the memory foam (which is the primary indicator of its durability or how long it will maintain its original properties).
It seems that the lack of knowledge of most of the salespeople in the industry is another factor that both countries share.
The choice between memory foam and latex would really be a matter of preference but in either case I would want to know the quality of the material in the mattress so that no matter which I chose it would be high quality and more durable. In the case of memory foam this would be about its density and in the case of latex it would be about the type and blend of the latex that was being used.
In terms of the innerspring … the pocket coil would be a higher cost component so this and the higher cost of most latex should be reflected in the prices of the mattresses.
Both of these seem to me to be in the lower “value” range (priced higher than they should be which is typical of major manufacturers) but in terms of value … if they are the same price … I would have to say that subject to confirming the type and quality of the latex and memory foam in each … the latex/pocket spring is probably better value.
I downloaded them to my computer and then attached them to this post. When you click “add file” and then find it on your computer and click open … the last step is to click the “insert” button but this is only functional at the very bottom of the square (when the cursor changes to a hand) which is a minor bug in the template code on the site so this may have been the issue with not being able to attach it to your post.
Phoenix
First off, if you’re ever in Madrid, we owe you a dinner. Seriously. Thank you for sharing your time and expertise.
We are doing further research on the Epeda mattresses, based on your suggestions.
In the meantime, we also liked the mattress below, from the same knowledgeable dealer that offered to special-order the Epeda mattress for us. He definitely stands behind this one, and has offered to deliver it to us for three nights to sample it. Of course, the cynic in me also knows that he probably has a higher profit margin on this less-expensive mattress (1,900 Euros) because it’s from a line he sells, vs. a line he has to special-order from. Incidentally, our sister and her boyfriend have a mattress from the sister company of this line (Swiss Confort) and love it.
I tried to add files for the mattress info, but my browser/computer doesn’t even open a dialogue box in order to browse for the file.
It’s a Robustaflex HITECH 20. Here’s the link to the product line catalogue, which is downloadable as a .pdf. The mattress is on page 8.
The catalogue:
[url=http://www.robustaflex.es/robustaflex-flippingbook/collection/#/8/]http://www.robustaflex.es/robustaflex-flippingbook/collection/#/8/[/url]
The downloadable .pdf:
[url=http://www.robustaflex.es/robustaflex-flippingbook/collection/files/assets/downloads/publication.pdf ]http://www.robustaflex.es/robustaflex-flippingbook/collection/files/assets/downloads/publication.pdf[/url]
Lemme know when you book your flight!
Best,
Bill
Hi TinkerBill,
The Hi-Tech 20 is typical of a mattress style that is more popular in Europe but is also appearing more in North America.
These typically use thinner layers of polyurethane foam with surface modification technology or various types of fabrications or cutouts as a form of zoning to achieve a more custom fit to different body types and sleeping styles. This allows them to use less material to achieve a certain “feel” or type of performance (less comfort layers over a base support layer).
These types of technologies tend to be more expensive because they have a great story to tell/sell even though the materials and fabrication itself may not be particularly costly. Fabrication certainly adds value and “customization” but often not to the degree that justifies the the increased prices.
These mattresses can have a very nice showroom feel but their durability would still depend on the type and quality/density of the foam that was used and this information is missing. From a “commodity” point of view, they are basically a 6" - 7" layer of base polyfoam with thin comfort layers with cutouts and fabrication to create zoning. The materials themselves probably wouldn’t justify the cost but the other side of the picture is that if they are a big enough improvement vs other mattresses in terms of meeting someone’s needs and preferences … then they may be worth considering.
I would want to know the quality/density of the polyfoam that it used (to get a sense of it’s durability) but my sense of things is that even though it may be very comfortable that $1900 Euros for basically 6" - 7" of fabricated polyfoam with an inch or so of polyfoam on each side with a nice cover is a little more than I would be willing to pay unless there is a particularly compelling reason to choose otherwise.
Phoenix
Hey again, Phoenix:
Here’s the latest in our search for a new mattress here in Spain:
We found one mattress store with an very helpful and fairly knowledgeable salesperson–I’ve alluded to him before. He even let us have two different mattresses to try for a week each. The first was the Robustoflex I wrote about earlier (we didn’t like it; turns out there was a great difference in how the mattress responded when not in the cold showroom, and when heated by my/our bodies: the viscoelastic really sank in a lot, and turning over was like quicksand–too effortful). The other was an all-latex mattress that we at first thought was too bouncy. After laying on it a second time, we realized that it was just very springy initially, and compared to the mattresses we had just been laying on, we imagined it would be like sleeping on a trampoline, but it’s been great. I like how cool it sleeps (I’m a very warm sleeper), and it has been very responsive. I like how supportive it is, how quickly (immediately) it restores its shape, etc.
The mattress is a Robustoflex RF-Latex 7. I’ve pasted in a link to the information page below. A few facts about it: The salesman told us it was Talalay latex. Turns out, it’s not. We were finally able to reach someone at Robustoflex today, and here’s what we found out: It has a core of 16cm of Synthetic Latex, which they said has a density of 65-70 (I’m quoting them directly; if this sounds like bull hooey, please tell me). The comfort layer is 7cm of natural latex, with a density of 70. It has seven zones of comfort. The casing is cotton, blah, blah, blah… The base is a platform divided into two halfs, with the slats slightly bowed and springy, and they’re mounted in sets of two, on some kind of fancy plastic brackets. I can furnish a photo of that if you like, but I bet you know what I’m talking about.
Now before I get to the price thing, I want to share that this salesman has been very helpful, and has seemed very well-informed (except for the Talalay thing), and not high-pressure at all. We liked him so much that between ourselves, we even decided that if we were going to buy the Epeda mattress (a line he doesn’t carry), we were going to see if he could order it for us, just to give him the business (and it turns out he could). And as I mentioned, he has given us two different mattresses to try out, including delivering them to us. So, as far as he’s concerned, he knows we were pretty much a sure sale for one of two mattresses, both in the 2,500 Euro range.
This latex mattress and base would have cost us between 2,400-2,500 Euros, and he had offered to give us a break of around 300 Euros. Today when we were talking about returning the demo mattress, he told us that if we wanted to buy this one (as opposed to ordering one slightly larger), he would give us the mattress and frame for 1,500 Euros. One of the reasons he said he was offering it was because it’s at the high end of his offerings, and with the economy here the way it is, he would be better served having the floor space taken up by a less-expensive model that he can sell easier.
Anyway, I’d love to hear what you think of the mattress, the offer, etc. I greatly appreciate your expertise, and your help.
Here’s the link to the mattress info:
http://www.robustaflex.es/robustaflex-flippingbook/collection/#/5/zoomed
(And incidentally, the other mattress we’d winnowed our choices down to was the Epeda Aire Premium I wrote about earlier (http://www.epeda.fr/Dedicace-Air-Premium,348.html). We have been trying to reach someone at Epeda for over a week via email (can’t find a phone number anywhere, even after much sleuthing) to ask them about wire gague, tempering, type/amount/density of latex, etc., but have heard nothing at all, which just ticks me off royally.)
Best wishes and thanks again,
Bill McKinley
P.S. There was recently a (crappy) piece in the NYTimes about buying a new mattress (On the Hunt for a New Mattress - The New York Times), and I posted the comment below, praising you.
We’ve been shopping for a new mattresss for more than six weeks. it’s a jungle–with scams-a-plenty and lots of high-pressure “sales” and psychological maneuvering.
I cannot recommend highly enough two resources I found:
themattressunderground.com and the YouTube channel of mattresstogo, The Beducation channel.
The website in amazingly informative, and the YouTube videos are great. I live in Spain, and I even called Jeff, the guy behind the videos and he was kind enough to give me advice over the phone. If I lived in Michigan, he would definitely have my business. Both he and the person behind the website have exchanged a number of emails with me, giving me invaluable feedback as we’ve winnowed down our options.
I have learned so much about mattresses that honestly, out of the ten different stores we’ve visited, there has only been one salesperson who knew as much as I did about the mattresses. We’ve made about 12-14 visits and have laid on probably 150 mattresses. We even took a comforter along and had 30-minute naps on four finalists. We felt a little silly, but it was amazing what was revealed by spending more time on the mattresses, letting our bodies sink in and warm them up.
As I type this, I’m laying on a test mattress, the second of two that one store has sent to our home for us to try out.
We’re down to two choices, and will make our choice this week, much more confident and knowledgeable about mattresses than I’ve ever been.
Buyer Beware!
Bill McKinley
Hi TinkerBill,
Sorry for the delay in my reply but unfortunately there are times when I need to make North America the priority
I took a look at both mattresses but I’m having a little bit of trouble “translating” and getting the specifics of the descriptions of both of these mattresses. After spending quite some time trying to decipher them I think it would be easier if you could provide a simple layer by layer description of each or at least confirm the specifics of each one. I’ve included what I understand of each and some comments about them along with the information I’m missing and would need to help you make a meaningful comparison.
Robustoflex RF-Latex 7:
Basically this mattress seems to have the following layers …
7 cm (2.75") 7 zone Natural Dunlop latex
15 cm (6") Synthetic Dunlop latex
Synthetic Dunlop is the lowest performing and cost version of latex but it can be a durable material . the natural Dunlop that is used is used in the comfort layer is a more costly and higher quality version of latex which is more elastic and conforming. If I understand it correctly it also has some “extra” features such as the 7 zones and various cutouts in the base layer that are used to customize the feel but a big part of the “value” of this for you would depend on how well it worked for you in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences).
What I’m missing is the type of quilting in the mattress cover and the type of fabric that is used in the mattress cover itself.
In terms of price … I have no knowledge of the Spanish market but it would certainly be quite high at the regular price if I replaced Euros with dollars and it was being sold in North America. There are all latex mattresses sold here with similar thicknesses that use better quality Talalay latex or 100% natural Dunlop from top to bottom and have a wool quilted organic cotton cover for significantly less than this. At the “special” price of 1500 for the set it would depend on what size you are looking at which of course would make a big difference but it seems to be much more reasonable offer (assuming it was dollars and being sold in North America). So besides the size you are looking at I would also need to know mattress only prices because the “set” pricing introduces a variable (the foundation) that makes mattress only comparisons more difficult and I don’t know the quality of the foundation that is included.
Epeda Air premium:
If I’m understanding the description correctly this one has the following layers … ?
4cm (@1.5") of Natural latex (I assume this is Dunlop)
Pocket coil innerspring with 1200 coils
6 cm (@ 2.5") of Natural latex (I assume this is also natural Dunlop)
This appears to be two sided (unless I’m misreading the description and all the latex is on one side only). Once again I’m also missing the details of the cover. It does say that the cover uses silk on one side and cashmere on the other but it’s not clear if this is the fabric itself, how much of each it has (it may be just label copy and not meaningful amounts) or whether they are blended with other fibers. I would also want to know whether the silk and cashmere is in the quilting or if there are any quilting materials in the cover. since you are on the heavier side it would also be useful to know the gauge of the innersprings.
Of course It would also be important to confirm the mattress only price and let me know the size you are looking at.
So if you could confirm the missing details and post them here it would help me a lot because I just don’t seem to be able to get a clear understanding of the details I would need from the website descriptions.
Phoenix
Thanks again for your responses. I totally understand about your North American priorities
I will try and find more answers for you, but I had to post you this response to an email I sent to Epeda more than a week ago. I had to join their Facebook page and bug them there in order to get a response at all, and then this arrived today. I’m alternating between incredulity, anger, and the giggles over their response, which seems to be imagining some kind of mattress espionage…almost unbelievable.
Here is my email to them, and their response. It’s unaltered, I swear:
A : [email protected]
De :
Date : 22/01/2013 14:21
Objet : Hello/Hola
After shopping for more than a month, and having looked at hundreds of mattresses, I am considering the purchase of your Air Premium mattress.
I have some questions before I make my final decision:
Unfortunately the salesperson at the local Epeda outlet seems to be very uninformed about these matters; he even told us that the Air Premium mattress had continuous coils and viscoelastic foam, and the Active Premium had the pocket coils and latex foam (his sales manager said the same thing).
Please respond at your earliest convenience so that I may proceed with my purchase.
Thank you for your help-
Bill McKinley
Dear Mister,
The features that you asked are a part of our trade secret and we are not able to communicate its to you.
You will find below the characteristics of the Air Premium mattress that we can pass on to you.
Thick : 30 cm - Tufted Soft Sensation / Balanced Support
Thank you for your understanding
Best Regards,
Epéda team
Hi Tinkerbill,
It sounds like the major manufacturers in Spain are not much different from those in North America when it comes to disclosure unfortunately.
At least they clarified the construction of the mattress somewhat which is a little bit helpful.
Epeda Air Premium:
Based on their description it seems that the Epeda air Premium uses a pocket coil system with a high coil count as the base. The description then says that there is a 6 cm (@2.5") comfort/transition “middle” layer of natural Dunlop latex and then a 4 cm (@1.5") layer of latex which seems to be on top of that (or there would be no “middle” layer). From other descriptions on other websites though … it appears that it is a two sided mattress and that the latex is on each side of the pocket coils, that it is 100% natural (probably Dunlop) and that the cover fabric is 100% viscose which means that the cashmere and silk would be in the quilting.
With a pocket coil mattress … the coils themselves are more conforming because they act more independently and this usually means that they can use a thinner layer of padding over them because they are part of the “comfort” and pressure relief of the mattress. Because of this … they are flexed in use more than other types of innerspring mattresses and with heavier weights they can be part of a “weak link” of a mattress if they are not tempered (which they probably are) or use a thinner gauge wire both of which can cause them to “take a set” over time. Many manufacturers don’t trust them with their heavier customers for this reason (although they can be made stronger in various ways including the use of lower gauge wire). The other side to this is that they are zoned and seem to use heavier gauge wire under the heavier parts of the body.
Taken all together … this mattress would probably be very comfortable and is two sided with two sleeping surfaces and uses good quality materials. I know many people who I respect a lot that a pocket coil/latex mattress such as this would be their mattress of preference. I would be a little concerned at the possibility that it may not be as durable for your heavier weight though. I didn’t see a price for this but I would also suspect that it would also not be great “value”.
Robustoflex RF-Latex 7:
While synthetic latex is not as durable as 100% natural Dunlop in terms of taking a compression set … in this construction it would probably be more durable than the pocket coil and it has a thicker 2.75" layer of natural latex layer over it as well which would shield it from the stress of regular compression.
It is also 7 zoned and has a stretch knit cotton cover which would allow the “feel” of latex to come through more at the tradeoff of not using quilting layers that can add to breathability (and fabrics like wool can be added as a mattress protector)
At the “regular” prices for this I would also not consider it to be good value at all but at the lower price you are mentioning the value would be quite reasonable IMO (again depending on the size you are looking at).
Of course the PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) between the two would play a significant role in my choice but all other things being equal, in the absence of any other information, and depending on the price for the Epeda, if I was in your shoes I would probably be leaning towards the Robustaflex.
Phoenix