How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
112

Hi Phoenix,

We went to revisit the Jamison Skipper today (http://jamisonbedding.com/tlc-collection/skipper). We also tested the Jamison LeafWing (http://jamisonbedding.com/tlc-collection/leafwing).

My wife took pictures of me lying on both mattresses, including both sides of the LeafWing. These pictures were very helpful as they showed that my shoulders, in side sleep mode, don’t sink into a mattress easily.

As expected, the firm side of the LeafWing was lacking in pressure point relief and didn’t let my shoulders sink in enough. What surprised me was that my shoulders didn’t sink into the Skipper as much I wanted, although better than the firm side of the LeafWing.

So, I tried the soft (plush) side of the LeafWing and my shoulders got in better, my back was straighter and the pressure points on my shoulder were pretty much taken care of.

The LeafWing has 2" of “GL Talalay Latex” ( http://jamisonbedding.com/images/PDFs/JB_Talalay_GL.pdf) then 2" of regular Talalay latex - so it has one extra inch of Talalay latex versus the Skipper, and the different kind of latex. Do you know anything about the “GL Talalay Latex”? The salesman assured me there was no memory foam in it, but just using the word gel makes me nervous since I can’t stand memory foam.

The salesman also quoted one other mattress, the Captain, (http://jamisonbedding.com/tlc-collection/captain) which he didn’t have on the floor. He said it might be better than the LeafWing for my shoulders, but its more expensive and I’d have to see/lay on one before I would know.

I had the same stinging in my sinuses after we left the store, though not as bad as the first visit. Mostly because I was well rested this time I think. Anyway, we are going to have to visit a Jamison dealer in another town and see if I get that stinging effect after laying on the latex mattresses there. I think there is something in the Huntsville store that is causing my sinus irritation. I just want to be sure its not the Jamison latex mattresses.

Oddly, my wife likes the LeafWing too, but because she finds it firmer and less bouncy than the Skipper.

:huh:

113

Hi Just right,

The Leafwing has an extra inch of latex and both layers are soft (instead of soft over medium in the Skipper) which could certainly make a difference for the shoulders … particularly with men where the wider shoulders are often the “problem” area (in women it’s often the hips).

Talalay GL comes in both a fast response and slow response version. Both have phase change gel (which is not memory foam) added to the latex (it’s also added into some memory foams) to help with temperature regulation … at least for a while until the temperatures equalize (so it can help with falling asleep for those who have real heat issues although Talalay is already the most breathable type of foam and is already more temperature regulating than other foams).

The fast response is very close to their regular blended Talalay while the slow response Talalay GL has a slower recovery that has similarities to memory foam but still has the benefits and breathability of latex.

That’s probably prudent just to make sure but it would be a very unusual reaction to latex.

That just goes to show the subjective nature of softness and firmness and perceptions. I would think for most people the plush side of the Leafwing (with 4" of soft latex) would feel noticeable softer than the Skipper with the extra inch of soft latex (the Skipper has 2" of soft over an inch of medium over the firmer core) but I’ve learned never to argue with each person’s perceptions … and I certainly wouldn’t argue with my DH about what she was feeling :slight_smile:

Phoenix

114

Hi Phoenix,

Yesterday I phoned Jamison to ask two questions. Had to leave a voice mail as not even the ‘operator’ was available. I also used their online query page to ask both questions.

I wanted to know the ILD of each foam layer in the Leafwing and whether the queen Leafwing mattress is a sinlge piece or two side-by-side pieces.

There has not been a peep back yet. I stated in both messages that we are considering buying two mattresses. Normally, I would expect a company to get right back to me, at least in the pre-sale phase.

I think I read somewhere on your mattress forum that another person waited 3 months without success.

Should that be a factor in our buying decision?

115

Hi Just Right,

Jamison is a wholesale manufacturer and their “customers” are the retailers they supply so they don’t have a customer service department geared towards consumer enquiries. This is the norm with many wholesale manufacturers who rely on their dealers to field consumer questions who in turn usually have a direct contact line to their factory rep. If you go through their telephone tree you will see that you have to press a specific number for a specific person and they don’t have a “general” customer service number for consumers.

If you have a question that your dealer can’t answer then the dealer would normally call their factory rep to get the answer or failing that you could email them from their contact page with the specific question you have.

Factory direct manufacturers on the other hand are geared towards direct consumer enquiries.

I should also mention that ILD information is not a “quality spec” of the mattress and many manufacturers don’t disclose this because it wouldn’t be meaningful or necessary information for consumers to know. Your own personal testing on a mattress will provide much more meaningful information about the suitability of a mattress than ILD specs which can be very misleading by themselves. Quality information such as foam density for polyfoam or memory foam or the type and blend of any latex in the mattress are “quality specs” and are much more important to know because you can’t “feel” the quality of the materials when you test a mattress and this will be a big part of making meaningful comparisons between mattresses in terms of durability and value.

So ILD information wouldn’t be a factor in a local buying decision for me and I also wouldn’t “expect” a wholesale manufacturer to reply promptly to a direct consumer enquiry when they don’t have a customer service department that is meant for this so any phone call would be a lower priority for a sales rep than the calls or visits they have scheduled or need to make with retailers.

Quality information on the other hand (foam density for polyfoam and memory foam and type and blend of latex are examples) would be important to me but I would go through the retailer to find this out. If they didn’t know or weren’t willing to find out then if I was seriously considering the mattress I would use the contact form on their site to ask them and probably “expect” some kind of delay in a reply.

In other words … their customer service department is for their retailers and my buying decision would be more about the customer service of the retailer and my ability to find out the quality specs of a mattress (not the “comfort specs”) through them rather than doing the research, or making the calls or sending the emails that the retailer should be doing for me.

Phoenix

116

Hi Phoenix,
I’m new to this site also, but you’ve already stopped me from the purchase I was going to make tomorrow! I was going to buy the Simmons Comforpedic Nourishing Comfort/Balanced Days Plush or the Enlightened Days/Restored Spirits Luxury Plush depending on how they feel to my husband. I liked them both.
We’re moving to newer technology from an innerspring model to try to reduce back pain and stiffness as well as trying to get a full night’s sleep. I’ve done a lot of research and thought first about a natural latex mattress but was put off by the high prices and the many comments that they sleep “hot”. The Simmons advertising for the new TruTemp Gel Touch layer and the Air Cool Memory Foam seemed to answer that problem and at a lower price point. Along with Memorial Day sales, I thought I was doing OK.
Do you have advice for me about alternatives that may be longer lasting, cool, and affordable? Are you familiar with local dealers in the Northern Kentucky (Covington/Florence) or Greater Cincinnati areas that I should contact for local product information that would be a better buy?

Thanks for any help you can offer!

Irish Rose

117

Hi IrishRose,

I’m glad you found us before you pulled the trigger :slight_smile:

The first place to start is post #1 here (which it would probably be safe to assume you’ve read since this is the same thread :)) which is the single most important post in the forum and includes or links to all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make good quality/value choices (and just as importantly, know how to avoid the worst ones).

This is fairly typical of the types of comments that are so common all over the internet (or reviews from consumers that don’t really know the specifics of what is in the mattress they are reviewing) which can be very inaccurate or misleading … and confusing. There are many factors involved in the sleeping temperature of a mattress besides just the type of foam used which you can read about in post #2 here but of the three main categories of foam (polyfoam, memory foam/gel memory foam, and latex) … latex as a category is the most breathable and in general sleeps the coolest.

Of course all foams are insulators compared to natural fibers so if you have upper layers of any foam that are too thick and soft or if they are covered with less breathable synthetic quilting or covers or less breathable mattress protectors or sheets then these will all raise the sleeping temperature of a mattress no matter how breathable the layers below them are.

Some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Cincinnati area (including Covington/Florence) are listed in post #212 here.

Phoenix

118

Hi Phoenix,

All you say is very reasonable.

Surprisingly, and pleasingly, the local Jamison rep emailed me today. He said, of the Leafwing:

“The ILD of the GL latex is 21, the soft layer beneath is a 19 and the evercloud I do not have. Note it’s only .5 inch thick. The core is an HD polyurethane that is a special formulation that Jamison has used in the Marriott hotel application for decades. The bed is available in all sizes, the photo is of two twin long matts that would be the same dimension as a king, this shows that the mattress has a firm side and a softer side. A single king mattress on the two boxes is also available. Hopes this helps.”

I know that knowing the ILDs doesn’t say as much as actually lying on the mattress does, but its nice to know, for an amateur bed buyer, that the GL layer is a little firmer than the other 2" of latex below.

I have ‘found’ another Jamison mattress that is one sided but, otherwise, seems very similar to the Leafwing (http://jamisonbedding.com/tlc-collection/leafwing). It is the Goldleaf (http://jamisonbedding.com/tlc-collection/goldleaf).

Both mattresses have 4" of soft latex on top, but the Goldleaf doesn’t have the GL, so it might be a little softer. On the other hand, maybe not, since it has an extra inch of the high density poly foam in the support layer. The furniture store in a neighboring town that we are visiting tomorrow has both models, so we can test them side-by-side - along with whether or not I get that stinging sensation in my sinuses.

I also found the source of the latex used in the Jamison mattresses. It is Latex International (http://www.latexfoam.com/). They have a great website and they seem to be top notch in every way latex.

I’m very pleased with Jamison and just hope our visit tomorrow can put my stinging sinuses worry to rest so we can buy some mattresses already!

119

Posted this in another thread but wanted to post it here too…by the way we bought: L&P S Cape adjustable base and an Ergo Silhouette Marseilles. Would love your thoughts on these items.

I just want to thank you all so much. My mom has had some health issues that made her need an adjustable bed. My mom is used to buying her appliances/beds at Sears and promptly bought there, as she has been so uncomfortable for so long…just wanted to get it done. Something about the quick purchase didn’t sit right with me, I had heard some kind of reviews before. So last night I looked all over the place, researching reviews, and ended up on this site. My mom has a lot of allergies, and needs good support for her back. It would have been so upsetting to all of us if (a) the new bed made her health issues worse (b) she had to deal with the customer service issues if/when she decided to return the bed later on ( buying through a retailer like Sears). She has enough to deal with as it is.

We followed links on this board to a couple of retailers here in Southern California (orange county) and visited them today, tried out beds the way you all recommended… They were so knowledgeable and helpful! I feel like we dodged a bullet thanks to you all. Cancelled the Sears order. We’re going to end up paying more, but the peace of mind and quality of the product will be worth it for my mom.

I made sure to tell the store that we were referred to them by this site.

Thanks again.

120

Hi Just Right,

Thanks for the feedback and it’s great that they were willing to provide you with ILD information regardless of it’s “real life” value.

The Leafwing and the Goldleaf would have a very similar feel and performance because the 2 ILD difference (assuming that the Goldleaf uses 2" of 19 ILD in the top 2" instead of what latex International calls “soft” which is 24 ILD) would be below the threshold that would be discernible for most people and would also be within the natural ILD variations across the surface of a Talalay latex layer as well. Also assuming that the polyfoam core was the same IFD (firmness in polyfoam) in both then the extra inch also wouldn’t make any significant difference either for most people.

Latex international is one of two main manufacturers of Talalay latex in the world (the other is Radium in Holland) and their bended Talalay is certainly is a high quality material. They are the biggest supplier of Talalay in North America while Radium has larger presence in Europe although both compete in both markets.

I’m curious as well about the source of your stinging sinuses but this would be more typical of a reaction to memory foam or even polyfoam VOC’s and offgassing for those who were more sensitive than it would be to latex.

I’m looking forward to hearing about your next round of mattress testing experiences :slight_smile:

Phoenix

121

So, I’ve been taking into consideration all the factors that are recommended. I contacted The Mattress Expert (recommended for Philadelphia area) with the following message:

Message: Hi just need help choosing a mattress. Husband(43 years/ 210lbs) suffers from multiple bulging discs in his lower back and I (40 years/150lbs)experience stiffness from neck/shoulder injury. I am tired of mattress shopping in stores and just want to make the best decision with our money.
Thanks, Janet

To which he replied:

Hi Janet,
Best Buy…and, our most popular mattress/topper combo.
The Stearns & Foster Heidi in luxury firm with a 2" soft Talalay latex topper.
This combination produces firm, but not hard support that his back needs from a mattress that will support his weight. The 2" soft latex topper provides long term pressure point relief and comfort. It’s a great feeling bed. Here are the links. You can order on line. Delivery is free and there’s no sales tax.

http://www.mcssl.com/store/1ae662ee01d74b47b0655c675367c3/stearns-foster-luxury-collection/stearns-foster-heidi-luxury-firm-tight-top

http://themattressexpert.com/all-about-latex.html

Thanks, Pete
1-877-631-5490
Visit Our Websites:
www.themattressexpert.com …Our Mattress Site

These are the specs for this mattress:

Stearns & Foster Luxury Collection, Heidi, Luxury Firm

Level H

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS

QUILT:
FlameGuard™ Fiber
1" HypersoftÂŽ Poly Foam
.5" oz Fiber
1" HypersoftÂŽ Poly Foam

COMFORT LAYERS:
1" High Density Poly Foam
1" High Density-High Performance Poly Foam

COIL UNIT:
Individually wrapped Titanium Alloy Double Tempered Steel Coil Unit, 825 Coil Density (Queen Size Count)

COIL GAUGE 13.75

EDGE SUPPORT: 2.5" Foam Encasement™

BASE INSULATOR: 1.5 oz. ResiliumÂŽ

BOXSPRING: LTD.™ Deflection

MATTRESS HEIGHT: 13"

I had read about how the comfort layer of this mattress is not good quality but was wondering if you had any advice to offer concerning best mattresses to alleviate discomfort of bulging discs. Obviously alignment and support is key but The Mattress Expert seemed to think that an all latex mattress would not be the best option but rather purchasing a latex topper on top of a firm mattress.

Just trying to make sense of it all

thanks

122

Hi brownies2,

I should make clear that most of the retailers in the various lists around the forum are only “possibilities” that are dependent on your ability to find out the quality of all the layers and materials in a mattress … not “recommendations”. Whether I purchased a mattress at any of them would depend entirely on their ability to provide this information so I could make meaningful quality and value comparisons with other mattresses. Without this you are making a completely blind purchase. The only mattresses there I would consider are the ones where they can provide the quality details of every layer.

As you can see here (one of the links in the “read first” post) … I also don’t suggest even considering any major brand mattress or any mattress where they won’t disclose any meaningful information about the materials in their mattresses and which are lower quality and value than many other options you have available.

The Stearns and Foster specs you were given don’t provide the most important information of all which is the density of the foams they use and without this the specs have no meaning because they don’t allow you to identify the weak link of the mattress (which as you noted is the likelihood that the comfort layers will soften and break down too quickly). I would never consider a mattress which had 4" of polyfoam in the top layers that were likely lower quality and which would be the first part of the mattress to soften and impress.

Phoenix

123

Hi Phoenix,

Well, good and bad news.

The good news is we got to test the Jamison Goldleaf side by side with the Leafwing.

There are some pictures of the Goldleaf’s construction and mattress surface design coming to you by email. I tried attaching them here and got the fatal error message again. I made them all much smaller than 2 MB each but no dice.

Both my wife and I liked the Goldleaf better than the Leafwing. We both thought it was softer. Its also less expensive than the Leafwing. I think the Leafwing was a little cooler to sleep on than the Goldleaf, doubtless owing to the GL in the top layer of the Leafwing. I couldn’t make up my mind whether the coolness was an advantage or not. I think a hot sleeper would find the GL valuable.

I also had a further email from the Jamison rep saying that the top two layers of the Goldleaf are both ILD 19.

The bad news is that I got the stinging sensation in my sinuses again and I’m sure it was coming from something on or in those two mattresses. I took a good long series of breaths through my nose while close to the surface of the Goldleaf and could feel (not smell, just feel) something entering my sinuses that was not my friend. Again, after we left the store the stinging began. I’m sure that a night spent on one of those mattresses would give me a raging sinus headache.

:sick:

We could buy one for my wife because she had no problems with either mattress. But further reading suggests that what I’m ‘smelling’ is fire retardant sprayed onto the mattress cover. So,I don’t want her exposed to those chemicals either.

Its too bad because they have gone to a lot of trouble to make a very attractive cover.

To be reasonable, I probably need to abandon Jamison as a potential mattress solution.

However, all is not lost. Big progress has been made here. I have learned the characteristics of a mattress that will make me happy. Now I need to see if there is another manufacturer out there that has a similarly constructed mattress - but is also driven to free their mattresses of as many out-gassable chemical residues as possible.

:slight_smile:

Maybe this one would do: 9" SkyBedÂŽ Natural Latex from http://www.habitatfurnishings.com/latex_mattress.html. It uses wool as the fire retardant layer and they have a one year free trial (except for return shipping). I might ask for a sample to see if it smells.

124

Hi Just Right,

The pictures were over the 2 MB forum limit for posting images which is why you were getting the error. I resized them and added them to your post :slight_smile:

That’s unfortunate. I’m not sure what you could be reacting to but it could be something you are particularly sensitive to in any of the materials in the mattress including any glue that is used.

Since Jamison is answering your questions it may be worthwhile to ask them what they are using as a fire retardant. I tend to think that it’s probably not a “spray” (and is probably a viscose/silica based inherent material which I would consider to be “safe”) but of course this is possible as well. It could also be some kind of treatment used for the cover fabric.

Yes … it would be a shame because I agree that the cover is very attractive.

A forum search on Habitat (you can just click this) will bring up many posts with my comments and more information about them. While they do use good materials (latex) in their mattresses … they are not the best “value” IMO and they don’t offer any options to fine tune their mattresses after a purchase. They are also a different design from the Jamison’s you have tested.

If you are looking in the direction of an online purchase … you will find a list of the members here that sell online in post #21 here where you will find better value and better options for choosing a design and fine tuning the feel and performance after a purchase as well.

Phoenix

125

Hi Phoenix,

I have been checking the online offerings of the companies you link to in post #21.

There is some interesting stuff out there.

However, so far, no one I’ve talked with knows the ILD of the “7” Marriott High Resiliency Ultra Premium Core" that resides inside the Goldleaf.

So, no one can give me an informed recommendation on the mattress they have that would be most similar. Not even people who offer a good deal of flexibility in many layers.

I’ve written to Jamison and asked the local dealer. So far, no answer there either.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

126

Hi Just Right,

ILD information is not really a part of transparency because it’s a “comfort spec” which has nothing to do with quality. Many manufacturers choose not to disclose it for good reason because it’s can be a legitimate part of a proprietary design.

In this case … you would just have to assume it is “somewhere in the range of firm” and use a rough approximation based on how it feels to you or use a support layer that would be fairly “standard” for your height and weight based on “averages” for the mattress you were considering.

Phoenix

127

Hi Phoenix,

I’m still looking for the ‘all latex’ mattress that will closely match the Goldleaf by Jamison.

There are two or three somewhat promising possibilities, mostly more expensive than the Goldleaf. In every case, I’m looking at a mattress with core and comfort layers of latex, a natural fire retardant like wool and a natural cover like cotton or bamboo. All in the hopes that such a mattress will not out-gas fumes that irritate my sinuses.

But, what if such a mattress still bothers my sinuses - or is just too expensive?

What do you know/think of/about enclosing a mattress in a gas tight ‘fabric’. Is there such a thing? Does it damage the mattress inside it? What are the other pros and cons?

If the all latex route doesn’t pan out (either because of cost or out gassing), I might still be able to get a better night’s sleep by encapsulating the Goldleaf. Or, if I buy an all latex mattress and eventually find that it too bothers me - same thing.

Thanks.

P.S.

So far, the far off, online folks with the best potential (for me) have not been agreeable to sending me sample materials from their mattresses. (One has offered to let me visit their factory and personally take the samples back home.) I think they are all scared of dealing with someone who has chemical sensitivities. What if, they think “Maybe this guy won’t be able to live with our mattress. He’d be stuck. Shipping back is very expensive. We don’t want an unhappy customer.”

Not an unreasonable way to think.

128

Hi Just right,

I don’t think this would be a good idea at all because it would prevent the mattress from breathing and could have a big affect on temperature and humidity control and would probably be uncomfortable as well. The only “gas tight” material I know would be clear non toxic polyurethane plastic (not vinyl) that was in the range of 5 mil or thicker.

Although anything is possible … my guess is that it’s not likely to be the latex that is affecting you and the odds are higher that you would be affected by any glue or polyfoam or other potential irritants in the mattress than the latex.

It may be worth testing some other latex mattress to see if your experience is the same.

If you are concerned though (and you would have good reason to be given your experience) I would make sure that any mattress you purchase has a good refund policy so that if for some reason your experience indicates that the mattress is affecting you that you have the ability to return it. This may not be an option available locally but it is available with many online purchases which may be a good option to consider.

Phoenix

129

Not sure if this is the right forum. Can you recommend NYC stores, preferably Manhattan - or NJ like Paramus? Before I went on my biz trip, I had it narrowed down to a few choices. One issue is that I really like the Cloud Supreme - but dh is tall and heavy, and it seems like that might not work. But I had tried a few firmer choices and didn’t like as much. Maybe if we both went to a store and tried them together.

Any advice on stores or a compromise mattress? I have hip issues and can no longer take a firm mattress.

130

Hi dpastor,

The New York list is in post #2 here and the there is a more categorized list with a few more detailed descriptions of some of them in the Northern New jersey list in post #7 here.

I’m happy to speak to the quality or value of a mattress or of course point the members here in the direction of better options in terms of retailers or manufacturers but as you can see in mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here there are too many variables and unknowns for me to suggest specific mattresses or comfort choices based on “theory at a distance”. Your own careful and objective testing will be a much more accurate guideline to find what is most suitable for you.

The first part of post #2 here also has some information that may be helpful in situations where the needs and preferences of a couple are very different,

Phoenix

131

Hi Phoenix,

I just read a disturbing piece about the fire barriers used in even “organic” mattresses:

http://www.strobel.com/wool_burns.htm

:ohmy:

They say there is no natural fiber, including wool, that can withstand the blow torch test now mandated by law. Consequently, all mattress manufacturers ‘fib’ about the naturalness of their fire retardant layer. In reality, they all must add or use chemicals to meet the fire standard and that none of those chemicals are safe for humans.

:sick:

And, there is no legal requirement to disclose the chemicals that are being used.

:angry:

Sounds like I need a doctor’s prescription so I can get a mattress without those chemicals.

I don’t smoke so I’m not going to catch the mattress on fire myself.

What are your understanding and opinions on the subject?

Is there a particular chemical + fiber that you think is least harmful to the sleeper?

Thanks.