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656

Hi johnep,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Thank you for those kind words about our site and you are welcome. As you say, it can get complicated but you seem to be focused on two really good choices. Although Dilworth is a small manufacturer and not a member of our site, Dilworth is known as quality and reputable company by industry insiders. As you already know Sleeping Organic is one of our trusted members, so we can rely on their transparency and quality of materials.

Both choices obviously are using quality materials, Dilworth is clearly using blended Talalay latex from Talalay Global. And Sleeping organic uses organic certified producers. No Talalay is made in Sri Lanka, Talalay is made in USA and the Netherlands only. I think this was just a misunderstanding from the person on the phone. For more info on the differences please see this earlier post about natural latex and blended latex.

It is actually to be accurate and tell the difference and how they feel to you without trying them. Two manufacturers can use the exact same latex layers and then use different fabric and different finishing processes and they feel entirely different. It would be well worth your time to visit your daughter and try the particular build from Sleeping Organic. Each sleeper has different needs but you most likely will find a ā€œfeelā€ difference between the two options which may be the most important factor, more important than return cost/timeframe, price and many other variables in your personal value equation when choosing a mattress because ā€œwhatā€ to choose in terms of either a mattress or the balance between comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment that may be suitable for a specific person is always up to the only person who can feel what only they can feel on a mattress and is best left to personal testing and their own experiences or more detailed discussions with the more knowledgeable people at the retailers or manufacturers that sell a mattress you are considering. For more information when trying the mattress locally, please read steps 2 and 3 in this post to help you to determine the best pressure relief and support.

Good luck! ā€¦ you are on the right track.

Phoenix

657

[color=black]Phoenix, thanks so much for your helpful reply. I have continued to research my options and after reviewing vendors on your website, I contacted Arizona Premium and discussed options with Ken. I am interested in his DIY approach. He has provided me quotes based upon information I provided him, notably my testing of several mattresses locally which are as follows:

Naturepedic EOS Trilux, all with 3 layers of 3" natural Dunlop, 10" profile with zippered cotton cover with wool padding. Layers could be swapped and 90 day exchange.
#1, side 1 S-S-F Good
#1, side 2 S-M-F Good
#2, Side 1 XS-S-F Good
#2, Side 2 M-M-F Too firm

OMI Organicpedic Duo, 3 3" inch layers of Dunlop, 10" profile with zippered cotton cover with wool padding. The sales tag says core is ā€œcertified organic natural rubber latexā€ but also says ā€œAlso available in 100% natural rubber latexā€. It sounds like the product I tested is a blend. 90 day layer exchang.
S-M-F Good

Posh-Lavish, comfort layers were talalay and base was Dunlop. I was told natural but website says it is a blend. Their cover was not padded like others but it was still nice.
Relax model: 2" tal. M, 6" dun. F Too firm
Restore model: 3" tal. S, 6" dun. F Good

Dilworth Mattress
Blue Heaven Firm ā€“ 3.5" HD foam and 6" talalay blended. Too firm
Performance ā€“ blended talalay ā€“ 3layers, ILD = 1.5" 24, 2" 28 and 6" 36 Good feel
I am not sure if the talalay blend was 60/40 or 40/60. Based on your website, it may have been 30/70.

Overall, there was not much difference in the mattresses I rated good. I suppose at my 150 weight and being a side sleeper, I have a greater range of options than some others. The best may have been the Posh-Lavish 3" tal. S and 6" Dunlop firm, although I want to have at least 3 layers and minimum of 9" plus cover. Also need a non wool cover due to allergies.

Ken suggested either 2 3" dunlop firm and a 3" Talalay soft would be good or a 6" firm dunlop with 2" medium Talalay and 2 or 3" soft Talalay. The 3 3" layers felt good and gives flexibility in getting right firmness, but he said that a thicker core was better for durability. Based upon that, he priced a 6/2/2 all natural Dunlop core and Talalay comfort.

Ken is obviously very knowledgeable about mattresses and I think he has provided sound recommendations. But in the spirit of 2 heads are better than one, I would like to ask you a few questions:

  1. What are your thoughts about a 3 3" layer configuration?
  2. Are 2" comfort layers thick enough to give the necessary performance? I prefer natural which increases the price and the extra thickness will increase it more. Not sure if the added thickness is meaningful relative to the added cost.
  3. Based upon my testing of mattresses, are there other configurations to consider?
  4. I am not one of those ā€œall organicā€ type of people, but it seemed to me that if you are going to use a ā€œnaturalā€ product, then it should be all ā€œnaturalā€ provided the cost was reasonable. Am I missing something with this mode of thinking?[/color]
658

Hi johnep,

Well done with all the trials, and yes Ken from Arizona Premium Mattress (one of our Trusted Members here) is very knowledgeable with a long history of making latex mattresses and fine-tuning them to match customer needs and preferences.

There would be little if any practical difference between two 3" support layers and a single 6" support layer if they were all the same type and blend of latex and the same ILD and were inside a tight fitting cover with 3" inches of latex of the same ILD on top of them. Two 3" layers would respond a little more independently and because the elasticity of the top 3" wouldnā€™t be connected and ā€œpulling backā€ on the bottom 3" when it compresses and ā€œin theoryā€ it may act a little bit softer but in practical and real-life terms most people wouldnā€™t notice any difference in terms of performance or firmness. If a single 6" core with a 3" comfort layer was a good match for you in terms of PPP then there would be little benefit in having multiple 3" layers that were the equivalent ILD. As long as donā€™t move to something too soft for the bottom 6" you should be ok.

Two-inch layers, in theory, are definitely enough to give proper performance. Different people have different needs and preferences and one is not better than the other as itā€™s all about which one is the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).

Regarding other configurations, it would be very tricky for me or anyone else to begin recommending different configurations, it is really about you matching up what is best based on your research, history, and local testing. ā€¦ any specific tweaking from TMU cannot be a substitute for this ā€¦ we typically make sure that you are heading in the right direction, offer some guidance, and provide any necessary supportive information but generally the best and most accurate recommendations always come from the retailers/manufacturers themselves as they are much more familiar with their materials and own mattress designs than anyone else (including me) and they can use the information you provide them about your body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your local testing to make suggestions based on the ā€œaveragesā€ of other customers that may be similar to you.

I think your view of not going with ā€œall organicā€ is quite common and many people tend to place this criterion lower in their personal value equation. It 's also worth mentioning there is no Talalay latex in the world that has organic certification but that does not make it less desirable, and whether in its natural, the blended or synthetic version is one of the best foams used in mattresses. Itā€™s important to note that blended is not ā€œbadā€ by any means and is still a ā€œmore naturalā€ product than many others. Most of the blended latex products are 30/70 (sales people just like to say its 70/30) but that is simply not the case with the formulas /manufacturers that have been mentioned. There is also more about organic, natural, green, and ā€œsafeā€ materials in post #2 here and the posts it links to because many people that are looking for ā€œorganicā€ materials are often just looking for materials that they can have confidence are ā€œsafeā€.

Good luck with the fine tunning and Iā€™d be interested to know what your final decision is!

Phoenix

659

I am curious about having a full platform under my Zenhaven, as required by the warranty. Joe Alexanderā€™s article makes it sound like this could create a moisture issue within the mattress. Would this hold true in a dry climate (semi arid desert?) Also, wouldnā€™t the mattress ventilate somewhat through the sides?

My ZH foundation is failing and Iā€™ve been looking at options to replace it that wonā€™t void the warranty. My reluctance to put my bed on top of plywood to satisfy the warranty is nudging me towards starting over with a manufacturer who can jibe with a slatted base.

Thanks in advance!

660

Thank you for all the great information on this site. It has been great to help me find a good mattress.

I finally decided on a 3 layer 3 inch latex mattress DIY with Arizona Premium Mattress. I chose all natural layers: Talalay soft, Talalay medium and Dunlop firm. This is a good fit for all the mattresses I liked while testing configurations at local stores.

I like this configuration because it gives flexibility in swapping layers to find the best one for me. Also, AZPM offers a 60 day exchange policy that will allow me to change layers in case I need to.

Some of the mattress companies recommended by TMU offered returns within the first 60 days or so. I would have liked that option but it seems I would pay at least $300 to $400 more for it. I tested 12 different latex mattresses in local stores, so I think the risk of finding the mattress unsuitable is rather low.

I have read quite a few comments from people who had back or other physical problems due to their new mattress. I did a good job of testing for comfort in stores but not so good a job in checking for alignment since I did it by myself. I can never remember sleeping on a mattress that caused any problems. Hopefully, this will not be the first one.

I am very interested in buying an adjustable bed but am not ready to do that just yet. That gives me somewhat of a problem. I do not want to buy a foundation for my new mattress since I am hoping to buy an adjustable within the next few months. Many experts say that you need to have a foundation designed for latex beds that has slats, proper spacing, et al. I do not want to spend several hundred dollars on something like that to use only a few months. Conversely, some reputable mattress sites say that box springs can be used. I could use the box springs from my old mattress. I understand there can be issues of breathability and support (new latex too heavy). I do not think the weight should be a problem just for one 150 pound person. I also considered building a simple frame with slats but that quickly gets to more than $100 or more of materials for a throwaway interim solution.

I would appreciate your thoughts about a suitable foundation for an interim period of a few months.

Thanks again for your help.

John

661

Hi johnep,

You are very welcome, and congratulations on a good quality/value latex mattress from Arizona Premium. :slight_smile: It is really quite clear that you have done your research and testing, really well done.

I understand what you mean about testing for alignment when you are by yourselfā€¦not that easy to do, but given you are fairly light and havenā€™t had many issues, and with your extensive local testing it looks like the three-layer design you chose has very good chances to meet your spinal alignment and support needs.

Regarding the foundation question ā€¦ it would be important to check with Arizona Premium to make sure that the support system you plan to use for the interim period wouldnā€™t invalidate the product warranty. From a general point of view, you can place a latex mattress on very different surfaces ā€¦on the floor, plywood, slats, traditional box spring, old box springā€¦ but each time you do this, it will feel different as the foundation itself will add another variable. With this in mind and if Arizona Premium vets your support system to use for a month or so, there should have no problem using your old box spring with this mattress until you are ready to get the adjustable foundation. Many consumers have done this with no issues at all but Iā€™d first make sure to check that the support system is still in good condition and does not sag under the weight of the mattress and people sleeping on it. When you change to a new foundation there will be some ā€œfeel differenceā€ which may be very noticeable, may only be slightly noticeable, or it may even feel much better. Thereā€™s much more information about the functions of foundations, active slat systems and actual box springs in the foundation thread here.

There is more information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds they carry and as pricing references as well (in(in post #6 in the main adjustable bed topic).

Good luck when you start down the adjustable purchase cycle.

Thank you for the great update.

Phoenix

662

Hey sweetandsourkiwi,

I just wanted to quickly comment on your ZH warranty/platform bed/slats/Joe Alexander article. As I read ZH warranty you are commenting about this section 3.0:

I believe your assumption about moisture build up (Joes article) with a flat piece of plywood is correctā€¦but I believe Zenhaven is making the integrity of there 2 Sided choice product and making the moisture issue a lower priority, or they question if there is any data to support this claim.

Thanks
Sensei

663

We have our new hybrid latex mattress. For now it is on the foundation from our old mattress which is set on a traditional bed frame. We donā€™t have the new platform bed yet. Once we get the platform bed, Iā€™m going to figure out the exact height we need and then figure out what option suits us best. Apparently, there is no warranty concern with Nest- they just warn that the mattress might sleep hot without a ā€œbreathing layerā€.

664

I have a Nest Hybrid Latex incoming and currently have a Zinus Demetric Steel Elite Smartbase 14" frame. Is this frame good enough? Anything I can add to make it better, like a bed rug?

665

Hi oBMTo,

We have our Nest Bedding Natural Hybrid latex mattresses (queen and full) set up on wood-slat foundations, including this one on our queen bed - HomeBase Foundation ā€“ Nest BeddingĀ®. The wood-slat option has been working fine for us. We had the steel version on our previous mattress for a year, and that worked as well. You may want to check with Nest Bedding simply to be sure, though. Their Customer Service team should be able to let you know definitively.

Hope that helpsā€¦

666

Hey savantstrike,

My apologies, I meant to let you know that I think you make a very good point about mattress height and many sites missing the context when discussing this. Well done with this quote:

[quote]The best ā€œexplanationā€ Iā€™ve seen on these sites is the thicker mattress keeps you from bottoming out, but the reality is that the construction of the mattress is what keeps you from bottoming out. Over a nominal thickness (maybe 9-10 inches), the only difference is a potentially plusher feel.

I wouldnā€™t worry too much about hitting some magic number for how thick a mattress is - I would just focus on getting what you want.[/quote]

Thanks again for your support and interaction on this forum.

Sleep well,
Sensei

667

Hi oBMTo,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Hi gryffin, I see your question also. And thank you NestHaven, as always very good advice.

OBMTo, regarding the Zinus frame, whether it is good enough is really about your needs and preferences. Zinus has done a very good job selling low cost, but very sturdy and durable bed frames/platforms. For many people yes this is good enough. And for others, they like to use the recommendations of the seller/manufacturer.

A coir bed rug is a fine choice as its porous structure allows for air to circulate more freely between the mattress bottom and the plywood. While IMO the bed rug in combination with the pocket coils would ensure adequate ventilation and breathability. In these cases, we always recommend checking manufacturer policies and ask them to clarify if using the coconut husks layer for ventilation would be enough and wouldnā€™t invalidate the Nest Bedding warranty, in case things donā€™t turn out as well as you have hoped for.

Gryffin, thanks for the comment, again I agree with NestHaven and our policy is you should talk to Nest about their warranty.

Thanks again for posting and asking questions, and please donā€™t hesitate to ask other questions you may have.

Thanks,
Sensei

668

Thanks Sensei! That was my conclusion as well.

They did not reply to my question about it, nor my inquiry as to where one finds a good quality platform base since they donā€™t sell one.

Iā€™m reluctant to put plywood underneath the mattress as it seems too rough, and because Iā€™ve heard it can harbor little bugs.

For now, Iā€™ve ordered a stout slatted base from KD Frames (the Nomad Plus) for either keeping the Zenhaven, trying the Nest Hybrid Latex (@gryffin, I so want to ask how you like it, but itā€™s only been one night!), or getting a different zip in latex layer kit system.

669

[color=black]Thanks Phoenix.
Due to GERD, I am looking for an adjustable mattress base that tilts the entire base along with other popular functions. Glideaway has several models. The best pricing I have seen so far for the Glideaway models is from RestRightMattress.com in Texas and MagicSleeper in Pottstown, PA. MagicSleeper is a member of TMU. What else can people tell me about these two online retailers? This is a big ticket item so I want to be confident in whom I am dealing with.

I have been told that Leggett & Platt is coming out with a tilt model but I am not sure when and not sure what features it will have. Can anyone share more information about L&P tilt products and timeline? If I knew they would have a competitive product, both in features and price, I might be willing to wait for a while.[/color]

670

Iā€™ve been looking at the specs of the new Nest hybrid latex mattress. Even though it uses high quality materials, isnā€™t six total inches of foam about the springs a bit excessive?

671

Not in our experience, Toddler. Weā€™ve have the Hybrid Natural Latex for over three months now, and love the overall feel, comfort, and support of this mattress. We tried the previous version (1" cotton/wool top, 3" Talalay latex, 8" coils, & 1" foam base), and never could get comfortable in that configuration. Now, with 6" foam, 6" coils, & 1" foam base, weā€™ve had wonderful sleepā€¦with no pain.

Also, the layers interact really nicely with each other, so that we get contouring comfort where we need it (shoulders/hips), yet plenty of support where we need it (backs). This new design has also alleviated the issue of too much pressure build-up or feeling like weā€™re hitting a wall when we get to the latex layer. Itā€™s a really well thought-out configuration, and has made a huge difference for us. We highly recommend it.

Happy to answer any other question you may have about this mattress.

672

Hey sweetandsourkiwi,

I agree on the plywood and KD frames / Nomad, very familiar with them. Good products, good company.

Beware about reading too much about harboring ā€œlittle bugsā€ā€¦it can get kind of gross, most people prefer blissful ignoranceā€¦and I am certainly not saying what is right or wrong.

Talk soon, or really message soon is what I mean. Thanks again.

Thanks,
Sensei

673

Hi johnep,

Sorry to hear about your GERD condition, usually a flat sleeping surface using an inclined mattress is usually one of the most effective solutions to assist with the acid reflux issue and you are correct that Power foundations with elevation capabilities are very popular items in that regard. The Glideaway models with an elevation kit such as Odessa or Accord adjustable base offered by Magic Sleeper here with incline. are very good options for this. As far as Leggat & Platt new offerings Iā€™d make sure to post your question on Richmond Beddingā€™s expert on TMU forum as they are our L&P experts that have had every model and would know about any new offerings and features that L&P has or plans to offer in the near future. As Richmond Bedding (owner Tim Hilles) has been directly dealing with the manufacturer for many years they have very competitive prices that you may wish to check out. We do not have any information about Legget and Plats potential future product, and we rarely coment comment upon new arrivals until the product has been formally introduced and had a chance to be l evaluated. Certainly, I am not surprised that L&P would have such a product coming out in the near future.

As far as Rest Right Mattress, they are a fairly new online retailer (opened in 2016 and owned by Jesse Crow) providing adjustable beds and mattresses so there is not much track history with specific information regarding their products and customer service that has been posted on TMU. Magic Sleeper, is a Trusted Member of TMU which means that they have been vetted by TMU against a set of rigorous criteria for membershipā€¦ which means that we think highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the ]best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. Iā€™d certainly make sure to give them a call as they have a wealth of knowledge and experience to help their customers make informed buying decisions.
Additionally, you might find interesting to read more about therapy and inclined bed solution post and also about different sleeping positions in, this article here.

Good luck with buying this product, of course, this is a big purchase so let us know if you have other questions.

Phoenix

674

Great! It arrived today. I will report that it is too heavy for me to do more than carefully scoot it 4 feet inside to await help. :slight_smile:

I might varnish or stain itā€¦bugs gross me out and I assume that will help protect the unfinished wood.

675

The jury is still out. We got the Medium firmness- my husband is very comfortable so far, but my lower back is getting sore- which is what usually happens to me when a bed is too soft. However, it seems to be getting a little better each night, so I may need to finish up the ā€œtransition periodā€ before deciding if I need to swap for the firmer latex layer. One of the key selling points for me about this mattress was the ability to do this swap if needed.