First, thank you so much for this forum and all you helpful answers for us!
My husband and I are going to buy either the Aspen or Snowmass Latex King bed from the Waco, TX Denver Mattress Store (btw the salesman was so nice and not pushy or giving us his “sales pitch”, unlike the Mattress Firm store where we walked out after the guy started quoting exactly what he was obviously trained to say to us for every question we asked).
What I would like your opinion on is what would be the best solution to make us both happy with the bed. And which bed, the Aspen or the Snowmass might be best to do that with.
My husband and I are complete opposites when it comes to our bed. He wants firm with a little soft and I like lots of soft.
He sleeps mostly on back and some on side and I sleep mostly on my stomach and some on side (which I know is weird since I like my bed soft and most people don’t because of the sinking). When I crawl in bed I grab my big fat pillow and stick it under my stomach and my face goes into a soft thin pillow (yeah I know, it’s a weird sight, ha). My back doesn’t sway maybe because of the pillow and I don’t get back aches. But without soft foam I do get really bad hip pain if I’ve switched to my side during the night
So, my husband really likes the feel of both the Aspen and Snowmass (with him liking the Aspen just a little more) and since he’s the one that really is having the back pain and feels the regular foam beds we’ve had sag really bad on his side of the bed I want him to be happy first. I’ve already been putting twin size memory foam on my side of the bed, but it’s been making me really hot (and it’s just not menopause! LOL).
What would you suggest to make me happy and him happy (with him happiest if we need to compromise). He is 6’2 210 and I’m 5’3 128. We are in our 50’s.
And when we go to buy they are going to suggest we buy a cover and sheets and pillows and all this stuff, do I need to buy all this? The mattress is a sacrifice for us, we are going to have to finance it as it is. (BTW one of the mattress covers they were showing us was “cool cover” and I was surprised but it did seem to feel cool. It was on one of their comfort beds.
Hope I haven’t asked too many questions at once. And I apologize in advance if any of this has been covered in another question. Thanks so much for the help.
As “weird” as this may seem … a pillow under your “middle” and a thin soft pillow is actually one of the best things a stomach sleeper can do to offset some of the risk connected to stomach sleeping.
Both the Aspen and the Snowmass are good value but the Aspen is a bit softer and has less latex in the support layers of the mattress. The Snowmass would probably be a little better for your stomach sleeping (it’s a bit firmer but still has the same 2" of softer latex in the top layers for your side sleeping) and in theory it would also be a little better for your husband’s higher weight (a little firmer on top and more latex underneath would likely be a little more supportive for him and more adaptable when he switches positions) but if he really prefers the Aspen and his alignment is good (which would be the main concern with a slightly softer mattress for him) then your own personal experience and what your bodies tell you should always be more important than “theory at a distance”. So in theory … the Snowmass would seem to be a slightly less risky choice for both of you but because you’ve learned how to “offset” some of the risks of softer mattresses for your stomach sleeping and if he really is OK with alignment on the Aspen, then it may be your best choice in “real world” terms. (NOTE: These two mattresses have not been replaced with the iChoice mattress/topper system).
Oklahoma mattress is a great manufacturer and they are members of this site because of their quality and value but it’s always safer to buy a mattress that you can actually test locally especially when it also has very good value. The Snowmass and Aspen is a set price and both are “mostly latex” with only an inch of polyfoam in the upper layers (which is certainly an acceptable thickness) and the rest of the polyfoam is used as a firm support base which is also fine. The Snowmass even has 8" of latex which is as much as some “all latex” mattresses. You would also be paying several hundred dollars for shipping if you were to order from Oklahoma mattress and you wouldn’t have any way to know for sure if the particular construction and softness/firmness and layers that you ordered were suitable for your needs and preferences.
So as great a choice as they would be … unless there was a big enough difference in value with all your costs included to make the additional risk of buying a mattress that you couldn’t test worthwhile … I would probably stick with something you could test locally which is a safer route to go.
If you already have sheets and a mattress protector and pillows that work for you then none of this would be necessary and you could certainly use what you have. A mattress protector is important to have of course and there are several that use various materials that can effect on sleeping temperature (including outlast which they use in their isocool protector) but if the one you have is still in good condition then you are probably fine. There are many things that can affect sleeping temperature and a protector is only one of them. Your mattress also uses more breathable foams and would likely already be cooler than many other types of mattress so whether you needed a more expensive “cooling” protector would depend on how hot you slept on the mattress and bedding you already had what other “cooling” alternatives you thought were best if you were sleeping too warm.
ADDED Feb, 1st, 2013: I had the chance to do some research in the Waco area and for those who are in the area here are some of the possibilities that may be worth including in your research and the brands they carry that I would consider.
As in all cases … one of the most important things when you are shopping for a mattress is to make sure that the retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with is able and willing to disclose all the quality details and specs of all the layers in any mattress you are considering. One of the most most reliable signs of a better retailer or manufacturer is one that does this and has the knowledge and experience to educate you about the difference between different types of materials that are in their mattresses.
404 | Furniture Row Regional factory direct manufacturer in Waco and other outlets in the area. They make a range of mattresses including two mostly latex and traditional innerspring mattresses with better quality and value.They don’t make any memory foam mattresses and i would also ignore the major brands they also carry.
http://www.bedroomshop.com/ Ft Worth, Longview, Arlington, Temple, TX. Factory direct manufacturer (Sleep Systems Inc) that makes their own innerspring/poly one and two sided and memory foam mattresses. Also carries major brands (which I would avoid). Will disclose all the material specs in their mattresses on request.
http://wacomattresscenter.com/brands.html Waco, TX. Boyd, Pure Latex Bliss, Southerland, Dormeo. I talked with Carol (the owner’s daughter) here and she is very knowledgeable and also understands the importance of knowing what is in your mattress. Well worth a visit.
http://www.rushfoam.com/ Troy, TX. They don’t sell complete mattresses but they do sell polyfoam and memory foam (no latex) for those who are more adventurous and want to build their own mattresses. they are also very knowledgeable about foam materials and will give you good and accurate information about the foams they carry and which are suitable for specific applications. If you go in this direction you would also need to buy a mattress cover (ticking) which are fairly widely available (some sources are listed here).
Thank you very much! So do you feel that between the Aspen and the Snowmass that the Snowmass would be less likely to sag? My husband always complains that our mattresses sag in his butt area and he really was attracted to the latex because I told him I’ve read on this forum they are the least likely to sag. And since you say the Snowmass has the most latex it in would that make since? Or if he really like the Aspen better (which I don’t think he liked it a whole lot better, just a tad more, but if the Snowmass is better he’d be happy with that too I think), is the sag potential very much?
And whichever one we get I still would like to know the best way to make it softer on my side. I only have some cheap memory foam that is going to the dogs bed, LOL. If I buy a twin size foam for me to make is softer on my side should I buy a latex topper and what do I look for in one? Any ones to be sure and avoid?
I’m glad you still said the Denver Mattress ones because they are giving away a free HD TV :cheer:
Neither of these are likely to sag because the weak link of a mattress (the part that gets soft and sags) is usually in the upper layers and both only have an inch of polyfoam in the upper part of the mattress which doesn’t present an issue. It’s when there are thicker layers of lower density polyfoam in these upper layers that foam softening and sagging can be an issue. The polyfoam used in the deeper layers is usually higher density and softening in the deeper parts of a mattress with higher density polyfoam is much less of an issue.
Having said all that … the Snowmass does have more latex which would give it better performance and even in the deeper support layers … latex would be more durable. The inch of polyfoam in the Snowmass is also firmer and under the latex (in theAspen it’s right on top) so this would also make it a little more durable … and as I mentioned probably more appropriate for better support in the long term.
Latex has less “sag potential” than any other foam.
I would probably sleep on the mattress for a few weeks before I decided what to add to it in terms of a topper. this will give your body time to adjust to a new sleep surface and if you still feel you need a little more softness then you would have a better idea of just hom much you would need to modify the feel and performance of the mattress.
In general … it’s best to add as thin a topper as would “do the job” because this will keep you closer to the support layers of the mattress which is important. Thicker toppers can compromise support and alignment. Memory foam, wool, and latex would likely be some of the better options and even if you say get another thin topper of low cost memory foam … it’s easy to replace if it wears out than having to replace the whole mattress. What material would work best for you would depend on how you wanted to change the feel of the mattress after you adjusted) and on whether you prefer the slow response feel of memory foam or the faster responding and more lively feel of latex. Of course budget will also play an role in what would be your best choice.
If you do decide to go in the direction of latex … Talalay comes in softer versions than Dunlop latex and the blended talalay is generally a better value and a little more durable in the softest ILD’s (a measure of softness/firmness) than the all natural talalay.
If you decide to go in the direction of memory foam … there are many options and lower density memory foams can feel softer than higher quality and density memory foams (which take a little more time to soften with body heat) and can be lower cost, faster responding and cooler, but they are also less less conforming and durable.
So overall … I would wait till you know for sure exactly how much you want to “modify” the softness of the mattress before you decided what type of topper was best.
Okay, I definitely will wait till have slept on it quite a while and see if I need anything on top and let you know. We are going back to the store to decide between the two on Wednesday and order it. They said it will take a couple weeks to come in and I’ll be sure to keep you updated on how we like everything.
Thank you again for this forum and all of your help!!
Hi, just talked to my husband and relayed all your help, again thanks so much.
He has another question he is a little concerned about and me too now that he has brought it up. When we were at Denver Mattress the salesman told us that the bed we will receive is NOT the same bed that is in the store we were laying on. He said that they are being updated and have different covers as far as he knew. I noticed on their website it also says the bed you receive will not be the same as pictured as they are being updated!!! I’m a little concerned about the Denver Mattress business ways of showing you one thing and giving you another. I mean how hard is it to take a picture and update your website with the correct picture??? It takes me a few seconds on Facebook, LOL.
And why on earth if they are selling you a different bed to your home, that they cannot get the same bed in the store? Sell the ones on the floor and get the ones you are actually giving people in the store.
I don’t know how to know if their “updated ones” that I will receive will also have the same latex quality and substance as the older ones you see online and in the store you actually see. If they in fact are simply a different color on the outside ONLY and the INSIDE is the same, then why not just state that so there is no confusion?
Have you talked to Denver Mattress about this and why they won’t get the ones they actually send to their customers in their store and why they won’t change the pictures to the “updated” ones. And do they guaranty that their new “updated” Aspen and Snowmass has the same technical specs/latex quantity and quality in them?
The process of "updating’ a mattress line is common in the industry and happens on a regular basis. It can range from just “refreshing” the look of the line with different covers to updating the specs of the line itself. Typically the website of most outlets is not completely up to date and takes a while to “catch up” to a new lineup. When I’m phoning various outlets (usually retail outlets that carry various brands) … it’s amazing how many of them have websites that list brands that they no longer even carry or where the website selection is different from what is currently available. They at least took the time to update their site and let people know that the models were being updated.
I would ask them specifically what changes they are making and whether the new updated line has the same specs and materials (which I’m guessing is likely). If it is just a matter of changing the look with a new cover that only looks different but is basically the same … this wouldn’t be an issue for most people. I think the salesperson was being quite honest with you rather than deceptive and there are many outlets that wouldn’t even tell you. Generally the rollout of a new line will take place in stages so that they can sell the old line before the new line is completely introduced. They are probably at the stage that they don’t have any of the mattresses with the old covers in the warehouse and in that case it won’t be long till all their floor models are sold and the new lineup and pictures will replace the old. They may even have a sale on the floor models just to speed up the process.
I’ve talked with Denver mattress many times (not about this specifically) and in my experience they have good integrity and have always been open and up front and truthful with the information they provide.
As to the specifics of their new line and making sure that what you will be receiving is only a different cover (if that’s OK with you) … I would call their head office (the number is on their home page) and ask them what exactly is changing, what any differences will be, and how you can be assured that the mattress you receive will have the same specs. My expectation is that they would tell you the truth. I would wait until you had confirmed this just for your own peace of mind (and I would do the same thing if I was buying a new mattress from them when the models were changing). If you decided to go ahead anyway … you could always specify on the sales receipt the exact details of what you are ordering (write down the layers from the website description) to make sure that what you receive will be the same materials.
If you are at all hesitant or unsure after calling them … I would just wait until the new models are on the floor and the rollout is complete and you can test them.
I had a chance to call Denver Mattress today and as I suspected the change is a minor change in fabric and mostly affects the fabric in the foundation. The mattresses will look very similar.
Because they are the same mattress in terms of materials, performance, and feel … the new versions will replace the versions in the store as a natural progressive rollout as I mentioned and they will update the pictures soon as well.
I just wanted to bring those up to date who are considering them and to alleviate any concerns that what they order will be “different” from what they get.
I too called and talked to them before we bought the Aspen and was told it was just the outside “wrapper”.
So on July 4th we bought the Aspen. It was really really hard to decide. I wanted my husband to make the decision because he’s the one that complains from back pain and sagging of a bed.
We got the Aspen because we couldn’t decide and the the manager there leaned us a little towards the Aspen. We could not get him to say why though. I just have to guess he has the least complaints/returns with it. I just don’t know and couldn’t get it out of him.
I was leaning towards the Snowmass because it’s got the most latex in it from reading here on your mattress forum. I just didn’t want to say anything to sway my husband one way or the other. Do you think we should have chosen the Snowmass with more latex in it? It was a really hard decision. The Aspen felt firmer, which my husband liked and the Snowmass felt a little softer, which I liked. They tell us we have 30 days to switch to the Snowmass if we want to.
We still haven’t gotten the bed, hopefully it will come in this week. We are both very excited to get it.
While we were there they sold us a mattress pad/protector Iso-Cool and I can’t believe it but it really does feel a bit cooler when you get into bed. It goes away some as you lay on it a few hours (by then I’m usually asleep, lol). I am happy we bought that since we both like to be cool when we sleep.
I’ll keep in touch after we get the bed, thanks agai!
Your experience on the Aspen and the Snowmass brings to light how very different people’s perceptions can be. Going by the specs and most people’s “ratings” … the Snowmass is a firmer mattress in design than the Aspen. Each person however can “interact” with different layers differently and may also be more sensitive to different types or “varieties” of softness than others. For example there are people who feel more of the softness/firmness of the comfort layers and this is the basis for how they rate a mattress. Others feel more of the softness/firmness of the support layers (how deeply they sink in) and they would rate the same mattress differently. Others yet base their “rating” on other more subjective factors such as the “springiness”, how quickly a mattress responds, or the overall subjective “feel” of a mattress and they would rate it differently again. None of this is right or wrong … just part of the differences between people. It’s also unusual how often couples will share the same perceptions that are “against” the technical specs of a mattress.
I would guess that because people are more used to a “softer” mattress because they are so used to sleeping on at least some supersoft polyfoam in the top layers of their mattress … even in so called “firm” mattresses … that the Aspen with the softer quilting layer may be closer to what people are used to and not as much of a change. This could be behind the “subtle suggestion” of your salesperson.
The Isocool uses a phase change material that can both absorb excess heat and gradually release it so it can help to regulate temperature. It’s one of many things that can be used to affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress. The Sealy Optimum for example also uses outlast but they add it to their memory foam.
All of these “cooling” technologies or materials can have a cumulative effect in helping to regulate sleeping temperature even though any one of them by themselves may not be enough for a particular person. The components and foams in a mattress (particularly the upper layers), the ticking and quilting fabrics and materials, the mattress protector, and the type of sheets used along with the nightclothes that people wear and their blankets of course can all make a difference in sleeping temperature.
I’m looking forward to your report when you’ve had the chance to sleep on it.
When you say the Aspen has the softer “quilting layer” I’m totally confused because to me the Snowmass has Quilting on top and the Aspen just has a top like memory foam has.
Did you have them switched in your mind?
The softness/firmness part was correct but the “quilting” part was reversed.
The Aspen isn’t quilted at all (as you know) but it has an inch of supersoft polyfoam under the latex in the comfort layer which is the biggest reason for the softer feel than the Snowmass (for most people anyway).
The Snowmass is quilted with a firmer higher density (1.8 lbs) foam over the latex which is the reason that for most people it has a firmer feel.
You are not the only one who felt the same way though and at one point I called them just to make sure that my information (and the information on the site) was correct and they confirmed that the “design” of the Snowmass was firmer than the Aspen which it “should be” based on the design and specs but of course … each person interacts with the different layers differently and it’s not uncommon at all for people to perceive a certain mattress differently than most. This is part of the “challenge” of “fitting” a mattress to each person.
Well we got our Mattress Wednesday, so we have slept on it for 2 nights now. I think it’s really too early yet to know for sure if I want to put a softer topper on it yet or not. For my husband the first night was great, last night though he said he wasn’t sure because his shoulder area seemed to bother him a little when he got up. He is 6’1 about 207 and very muscular built up top (he has wide broad shoulders and since he has lifted wieghts all his life he has big arms). But I told him we definitely have to give it another 2 weeks to know really anything.
The mattress had a dirt/stain on one end of the corners as soon as they delivered it and took the plastic off. So I guess it dropped somewhere before they put the plastic on and didn’t see it. Tried to remove stain but it’s still there but better. Denver Mattress salesman said he can order us another one (which I sure want to do since I didn’t get any discount or scratch/dent price). But we will wait to order another until we are sure this one feels okay.
But the main thing I want to ask you today is about the top layer on this Aspen. I can feel that the top layer is in three pieces. One is right down the middle and I can feel the hardest where they glued it together (imagine glueing two twin size pieces together). I guess we are fine with that since we don’t really sleep right in the middle. BUT there is another 3 piece on one side of the bed (happens to be my husbands side) that is about 12 inches wide and it is not glued (or at least it is not felt that way) on the side of the bed all the way from the top to bottom. It’s like a twin size piece that was not really a twin size piece so they added another foot of foam to it to make the twin size piece, then glued it down the middle to the other full twin size piece. Haaa, I hope I’m describing it to you to make sense. I was feeling the bed and and felt the middle seam, and then noticed visually the extra indention all the way from top to bottom and then felt it with my hands and could tell it was another piece they butted against the undersized piece.
I was expecting the top layer to be one whole king size piece. Is that how they all do it? I’m most concerned with the added foot wide piece and if that would be of concern in another year or later? It’s late in the day today, but I was going to call the main Denver Mattress store and see what they say about that on Monday. But wanted to be educated by what you think of that first and if you were familiar with them doing it that way.
It would be important for them to acknowledge that the mattress was delivered this way because a stain can void a warranty … even if it’s been cleaned. Of course this would be solved by an exchange anyway or perhaps by a discount as long as it was clear that the discount was not in exchange for the warranty protection.
Talalay latex is usually poured in two sizes … twin XL and queen (less common) and sizes other than this will always have a glue seam and even most queens will have a glue seam. The position of the seams would depend on who was doing the fabricating and gluing and could range from the middle to more towards the sides depending on the size involved. Cal King sizes would have at lest three glue seams (it’s longer so would need a seam on the end as well as the normal seam in the center). Of course it’s possible that a manufacturer uses other types of fabrication and layer widths to make up a particular layer size. For example … a full size would need a strip on the side which would leave a “slightly narrow” twin XL which may then be used with another twin XL with a strip in the middle to make a King. The glue that is used is normally a water based latex glue that is non toxic. For most people … and assuming good quality control in the fabrication and gluing … the seams themselves are undetectable.
Dunlop latex on the other hand would depend on whether it was poured in a mold or not. In some cases you will get Dunlop that has no glue seams at all even in a king size and in other cases (poured in a mold) it will also have a glue seam. While the glue seam can be seen … it also would be unusual to feel it in actual use.
In either case it would be important that the ILD of each part of a core are close enough together that any difference would also not be detectable and that the cut layer thicknesses were also the same and I suppose that it’s possible that this could be an area where “mismatched” pieces could contribute to seeing or feeling a difference in the area of a seam. Fabrication and gluing of different sizes is usually a completely “normal” part of latex fabrication and has no effect on performance or foam durability … unless there is a quality control issue.
Still looking at posts regarding the Snowmass and Aspen and ran across this one. When you said, “Talalay latex is usually poured in two sizes … twin XL and queen (less common) and sizes other than this will always have a glue seam and even most queens will have a glue seam,” is that because most people order either twin or king sizes? We were learning towards purchasing a king but realized all the additional cost we would incur since our sleigh bed frame/headboard/footboard is a queen.
The mold sizes they use are more a matter of economics. A twin XL can be fabricated into almost any size using just two pieces (the exception is a cal king which requires 3 pieces) so they can pour one size and then fabricate it into any other size they want. There are a few queen size molds which produce finished queen size layers without a glue seam but they are much less common because they there are fewer molds of this size (and they can only be used to make queen size or too much material would be wasted).
In other words … most of the “finished layers” for talalay latex (outside of twin and the occasional queen) would have a glue seam although you wouldn’t feel it.
Yes … as you mentioned you would be looking at the additional cost of a new bedframe as well if you changed sizes since your old one wouldn’t work although if you wanted to eliminate the sleigh bed (or sell it) there are some fairly inexpensive options available in the foundation thread that can be used as a base for a King size mattress.