How to... A Researcher's Guide to Mattress Wisdom

Community Forum (Help & Rules)
56

Sensei,
Great! Thank you for your response.

57

I’ve been shopping for a new mattress and I was hoping to get some advice.
Our personal preference is a hybrid mattress with a traditional pillow top feel with no synthetic foams (i.e. polyurethane and memory foams etc.) We also prefer a higher mattress height 10" and higher.

We tried out the Firm Bloom latex hybrid mattress from Brooklyn Bedding and were ready to purchase. Unfortunately, it has a 1" layer of high density foam on the bottom, which is the only factor keeping us from buying this mattress. We’re trying to minimize off-gassing. Are there any other mattresses that are similar to the Bloom?
Things we really liked about the Bloom:
Pillowtop- 1.25" Joma Wool and cotton quilted top (We love the feel of the top of this mattress, we’ve tried others, but this feels great for us)
The height- I believe it’s around 13.5"
Firmness-3" Talalay latex (customer service claims an ILD of 36) and Leggett and Platt coils.

Things we don’t like:
Certipur certification. We prefer GOTS, GOLS, and Greenguard.
But I guess since they have the high density foam they wouldn’t receive this certification. They claim that have Class 1 Oeko Tek certification for the latex.

Runner Ups:
Sleep EZ Luxerion
Things we don’t like:
Again no GOTS, GOLS, and Greenguard. Only Certipur certified, which I under is by the polyurethane industry. Not sure if there are more synthetics hidden in the mattress.

Reviews complaining that their latex is lighter than other companies and therefore less durable.

No pillowtop.
Mattress height is only 10"
Latex is softer, but they did offer to customize

We are also thinking about checking out the Estate 5000 and St. Regis mattresses at Charles P. Rogers.
But again, they are certified by Certipur, which we feel isn’t enough for us personally.

We also tried the Avocado and wanted to love it, but even the firm was too squishy feeling and bouncy for us.

Would anyone have any recommendations for us? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

58

Hey shch,

Thanks for the post.

The Bloom Latex Hybrid, in different firmnesses, is a nice feeling line of mattresses, I was able to lie down on these at the last Las Vegas mattress market. Yes this Talalay is Oeko Tex certified, I do know this is a fact.

I understand your comments on Certipur, all of the decent foam guys have this certification, run by polyfoam companies, etc etc etc. Also noted on “minimizing off-gassing” and noted hybrid preference.

Not sure if you have read all of the certification threads, but there is a good mattress certification posthere.

All the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will also have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold or C2C and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex (regardless of whether it is synthetic, natural, or blended) to be a very “safe” material in terms of harmful substances and VOC’s (offgassing).

IMO, by choosing a hybrid with only 1" of poly below the coils, you have certainly minimized off-gassing, but of course, this is a personal decision and preference for you. But if your room is properly ventilated, airflow, etc, you would have a very low emmision rate with the Bloom.

Have you asked any of the Mattress Expert members if they have the coil unit with no polyfoam base layer? I know most of these units have the stabilizing base foam below them, not all of them of course.

Thanks,
Sensei

59

Since I can’t create my own topic, could one please be created for me:

Zinus 12" Queen Green Tea mattress, middle sagging after 6-8 months (did I get a bad mattress?)

Hello all. I suffer from a chronic sleep issue for over 10 years and also fibromyalgia like body pain and pressure points. Last December after finally being sick of the Sleep Number C2 queen I’ve had for a number of years, I extensively researched online and bought a Zinus 12" Green Tea Mattress, Queen (Amazon.com). At first, I had no complaints with it. However, within 6 months I definitely noticed that it started to not keep it’s firmness in the center middle and sags in when I lay down for awhile.

I’m the exact opposite of what you’d call a heavy-set person (Male 36, 5’11’ and 165 lbs) and am using the base of the old C2. If I move to the sides I can feel the firmness/support of what it originally was. I’ve even tried readding the 3" thick-4 pound foam topper I had bought for the Sleep Number (Amazon.com) to see if that would fix it, but that only pronounces it more.

I’ve been just dealing with it for the past few months but it’s only getting worse and I have to believe this isn’t normal. I want to start a warranty claim with Zinus but I just cringe at having to go through all of this.

I’m just wondering, was I just unlucky and get a bad pick of a mattress? Has anyone else experienced this? Any and all comments & suggestions would be appreciated!

60

Unfortunately what you’re describing is not that uncommon with lower cost mattresses which make use of low density foams. The warranty will only cover a depression of 1.5" or more measured with no weight on the mattress. A loss of support or softening of the foam is not covered under most mattress warranties.

So the question is whether there’s a visible depression when under no load, and if there is and it’s a minimum of 1.5" then you may have a valid warranty claim which could be honored with a repair or replacement of the mattress. Otherwise it’s generally not considered to be a warranty issue. :frowning:

61

Hi sleepsFire,

Welcome to the mattress forum :). I moved your post to its own thread, thanks for asking about that.

Thanks for your post … yes you bring up one of the most important topics concerning mattress durability and even more, which is also succinctly pointed out by @Sweet Dreams, is the lack of transparency regarding the materials and components used in the mattress.

We are often seeing people having similar complaints. Did you buy “a bad mattress?” Hard to say with certainty but clearly, it has durability issues and it is not a good fit for you. Generally speaking, without knowing what is inside (The density, IFD, quality, safety etc of each layer and component) is hard to make an informed decision. As seen from the specifications on their website (pasted below) there is no real meaningful information that would allow you to assess how well and for how long you can sleep on this mattress. Sweet Dreams already addressed the warranty … it can be an uphill battle to succeed with a warranty claim and I certainly understand your feeling of “dread”.

The specifications from the website (mostly marketing nonsense)

I’m not sure what you’ve read since you found the site but just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Nothing can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see this post about what mattress is best for me?).

You are certainly not alone in this and there are far too many people who had similar experiences. I’d do a hard reset and with a bit of reading on our site take a better look around along with a better understanding your own needs and preferences. Outside of whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) … a mattress is only as good as the quality of the materials inside it so regardless of the name of the manufacturer … For any mattress you consider you’d need to know the specifics of what is inside any mattress (see this article about the Mattress specifications you need to know). If you can list the specifics of the layers inside one of their mattresses you are considering then I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials inside it or whether it has any obvious weak links in terms of durability.

Once you had a chance to do a bit more reading you can ask any of the Mattress Expert members, they can certainly assist with finding a suitable mattress for you.

Phoenix

62

Hello- I’m feeling a little dense and am typically quite savvy with message forums. I can’t figure out for the life of me how to post a general information question on the forum? I read through the thread below and am acutally more confused than I was when I first started trying to figure it out.

Is there a step-by-step somewhere on how to post a question?

63

Hi lheitzman,

Welcome to the forum :). Sorry about that we have turned it off for now.

What would you like the subject to be - the same mattress for 4-yr old son? Or you can just get information from the expert forums, as you have asked MGM, LMF, and SleepEZ.

Let me know, and we have no issue starting a new thread for you.

Thanks,
Sensei

65

Thanks for the response. I’m seeking information on the true differences between 100% Natural Latex and GOLS Certified organic. I see many of the trusted members offer both and I’m seeking to determine if the differences are worth the extra cost.

66

Hi lheitzman,

Thanks again for the post and I started a new thread for an alway important latex question. We have a lot of content about this so you will be able to search and link to quite a few posts.

The USDA “organic” certification is a certification that has to do with the agricultural raw latex used in a latex core. For the raw latex to be certified as organic, the plantation has to be free of pesticide use for a number of years (in the surrounding area as well) and they have to follow organic farming methods. The organic certification process is very stringent and expensive so a product that uses it will be more expensive just because of the costs involved in certification not necessarily because the ingredients in the latex are any different.

Having the raw material certified though doesn’t mean the latex core that uses this certified raw material is certified organic. For this to happen then the factory and methods of foaming and production also have to be certified organic. Until recently this didn’t yet exist (only the raw latex was certified as an organic agricultural product). Latex green, however, was the first certified organic latex core rather than just being a latex core that uses certified organic latex. Each step of “certification” involves a cost both at the factory (which has to separate non-certified materials and production runs from certified ones and follow certain other procedures) and with the certification process itself. Since this time there are now other GOLS certified producers (currently 4 in total) and if you register on the Control Union site, you can do a Control Union Certification Search.

You can also read more about organic latex certifications here.

All of this is to say that “certified organic” can mean a more expensive product that may not have a significant benefit in terms of performance, safety, or even “purity” over 100% natural latex. There are a large number of consumers however who will willingly pay for the “certified organic” label because they prefer to support more organic and sustainable farming methods.

So it’s up to each person to decide whether the “organic” label is worth any premium it may have over an equivalent but non-certified material and this would be a personal and lifestyle choice. Wool can be the same and some of the best and cleanest, most “natural” wool made from the “happiest sheep” in the country and using all organic farming methods are not certified organic because of the expense of the certification process itself.

I personally would lean towards 100% natural Dunlop without the certification as being better value (it is usually a lower cost) but that’s just my own “personal value equation” and there is also a good argument that the extra cost of “certified organic” materials is worth the peace of mind that the certification brings with it.

Take a look around more and let us know if you have more questions.

Phoenix

68

I’m a new member seeking advice. We’re looking for a new mattress for my college-age son. The main issue is finding a mattress that will work on an old IKEA bunk bed (constraint: mattress no higher than 8"). The metal foundation frame has a grid, not slats. One possibility we are considering is the SleepEZ Select latex 7" (2 layers of 3" natural latex + 1" wool cover), but aren’t sure if the frame would support the weight of the latex mattresses. Is this a good choice? Are there hybrids out there that could work (we like the Luma Sleep hybrid, but it’s much too high)? Do you have other suggestions?

He is 5’7" and 125 lbs, sleeps in all positions, prefers a medium to firm mattress, and has chemical sensitivities (one reason we’re considering natural latex and staying away from foam).

Thanks in advance for your help.

69

Since posting my set of questions above, I poked around your site to look for info on hybrid mattresses, and I think I found a mattress that looks like a good match–the Kiwi Bunk Bed mattress from My Green Mattress. So, if it’s made for a bunk bed, the weight should be OK? (I have no specs for the weight limit on this bunk bed, so I’m being cautious.) Is there anything else I should take into consideration?

70

Subject : 100% Natural talalay latex firmness options for petite side sleeper

Hi Sensei,

Thank you so much for the response! And thanks to all the experts for sharing their knowledge here to help people in their mattress search & quest for a good night’s sleep!
I have spent a lot of time here reading about all the advice and tips to choose a latex mattress all of which has been very helpful. Hoping I can get some insights on the current dilemma we are having with our mattress purchase.

I am on the petite side,5’3" height and 100 lbs weight and mostly a side sleeper. Some back sleeping too. My husband is 6’3", 155 Lbs and more of a back sleeper with chronic back pain issues and prefers a firmer surface.

We finally decided to get a 100% all natural radium talalay mattress from a local store and they only do differential configuration for all latex mattress- 6" core and 2" comfort layer with 1 inch of wool & cotton casing.

I found that their softest configuration with a N7 Radium Talalay core ( 32.5/±2.5) and N5 radium talalay topper (17.5 /±2.5) seems fine for side sleeping but not supportive enough when sitting/ seemed too floppy/ floaty.

When we comfort exchanged to the next firmness level, changing core to N8( 38.5 ) , with same comfort layer, its too firm and gives me a backache and sides get sore. However my husband likes the firmness of this one better. We have a few more weeks to figure out if this works for us and would appreciate insights from the experts here. Have spent so much time and money on this, hoping we can make this work.

Here are the current options we are considering questions:

  1. Wondering if a 3"-3"-3" progressive configuration of talalay latex would be better to give the right mix of comfort and support for me as compared to the 6 " core + 2" comfort latex layer? And give us more options to get the firmness right ?
    As currently with the firmer core,2" of top layer does not seem to be sufficient for me. But this will need us to return the mattress and then figure out where to get a new one from ( most likely online) and repeat the process all over again which does not seem too appealing.

If we stick with the store we got it from , our options :

  1. Going back to previous configuration for my side ( we have a Cal King) and try to get used to the sinking/ buoyant feel when sitting on it as all the weight on one point probably is compressing it more? Not the best feeling but perhaps there might be some way to make it a bit firmer using a firm topper or something? The store said they have polyester firming pads we could use in between core and comfort layer to make it a bit firmer. While polyester does not sound like the best material to have in between organic latex, concerned if this is a good long term fix or not really?
    We currently have a platform bed with wooden slats. If we place a wooden board on the slats would it help with firmness at all?

  2. We could get a pillowtop and see if that will help me but will cost additional $$$ almost $800 for a CA king pillowtop from the same store. But not sure if pillowtop will work for my husband.

Will appreciate your insight on this!

Thanks in advance!

71

Just going to add this here since it seemed related to the thread question I wanted to ask.

I’m in search of a mattress, preferrably latex but I am trying to wrap my head around what certifications are the best to have.

I’ve narrowed down to these companies

  • My Green Mattress
  • Avocado
  • Naturepedic
  • Happsy

Basically I am mostly interested in buying something that is safe, has no additional ingredients added to the latex other than the latex itself and vulcanizing agents, safe cotton/wool, and no adhesives of the sort for the bed.

I feel that Avocado offers the most certifications, with My Green Mattress next, and then Naturepedic after that.

So I guess my biggest question is what are the best certifications to have for a safe mattress that will not off-gas into the bedroom that it is in?

I’ve seen GOTS, GOLS, Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, UL Greenguard Gold, MadeSafe, FSC, etc.

My Green Mattress has caught my eye but I see they don’t have a MadeSafe certification, any reason why and is it that important even though they have Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, OEKO-Tex, etc.

72

Hi new2mattress,

Latex foam rubber can be blended with numerous performance robbing materials (such as synthetic latex and filler) so it’s important to ensure the purest possible latex is being used.
The only way to guarantee a latex rubber is free of these performance robbing additives is through GOLS (Global Organic Latex Standard) certification.

Under the GOLS content standard all latex rubber must:

contain at least 95% organic latex content
not contain any synthetic latex

In addition to the purity and performance standards GOLS standards also includes many other important health and social guidelines.

Some of the other important parameters included in the certification include:

VOC and harmful substance testing
forest stewardship practises
waste and pollution management
water management regulations
renewable energy requirements
living wage guidelines for workers
child labour is prohibited

When taken in totality, no other certification ensures you’re getting the full health and performance benefits that latex offers while protecting the health of our planet, workers and you.

You may also make sure that the adhesives they use to assemble the mattresses are Greenguard Gold Certified

Good luck in you search and keep us posted!

Best,

73

Hello lheitzman,

It all really depends on what certifications you are looking for. Some organic certified latex is made the same way as not certified organic latex. The difference is whether the farm, or manufacturer of the foam has paid and taken the necessary steps for certification.

We suggest reading the qualifications of the certification for you to determine whether there is a difference.

Here at Spindle our latex is not GOLS certified. We went a different route and chose to be Rainforest alliance and Forrest stewardship council certified. We simply chose these standards and practices because they are more in line with what we want to represent.

The point is do not spend the extra money until you read what the certification means. And support the certifications that mean something to you. Also be sure to ask what the material is actually made of. Some certifications may be presented to make you think it is safer or more “natural” but it may only apply to a small portion of the product.

74

Hi lightsidesleeper.

Welcome to our mattress forum :)!

Keeping in mind your son’s chemical sensitiveness, BMI, and sleeping positions, the mattresses you are considering are good value/quality options that could work given that it matches your son’s comfort preferences and alignment needs. I am not familiar with the old Ikea bunk bed you mentioned but I’d assume from your general description that it has rather large unsupported areas that would be too large for an all latex mattress or some other types of mattresses which can easily cut into an all latex mattress (what many manufacturers will refer to the grids as cheese slicers). There are some creative solutions that people have found such as adding a coir bed rug or vinyl lattice that you can read about in this mattress foundation thread here.

All manufacturers are different in what they recommend for their products. The first thing to do is always to check with the mattress manufacturer you’re considering and ask their opinion to make sure that the bunk bed is appropriate and doesn’t void your warranty. My Green Mattress’s description of Kiwi states that “it works well on any traditional foundation, including solid or slatted platform beds that are no more 3.5 inches apart” but of course the contact grid/mattress area is important in distributing the load of the mattress and MGM would be able to assess if the foundation is suitable for the mattress.

It would be helpful if you’d have the name of the Ikea bunk bed you own, to see if someone who owns one knows the weight capacity specs for your model and can support the weight of the mattress and of the sleeper on it.

You certainly are considering a few good/quality options and I’m looking forward to hearing about your final decision.

Phoenix

75

Hi Embee,

You are welcome and thank you for your kind words about our site. You’ve certainly done a quite bit of research and will be moving probably much faster through your next decisions.

In general, most foam mattresses (including latex) don’t have or even really need side support if they have a support core that is firm enough and the comfort layers aren’t too thick and/or soft. You are correct that sometimes because of latex’s point elasticity… those who sit on the very outside edge of the mattress (instead of sitting with the bodyweight more into the middle of the mattress) or who sleep with more concentrated weight on the outside few inches of their mattress may find themselves sinking down more than they like even though this isn’t normally an issue when sleeping on the mattress. There are some solutions for those who prefer a firmer edge then there are a few latex mattresses that use what’s called a “racetrack” perimeter where the outer few inches of the latex support core is surrounded with a firmer foam. Unfortunately, most of the time this firmer foam is a much less durable (but firmer) polyfoam which will soften and break down sooner than the latex and what starts out as a positive can become a negative over time (depending on the density of the polyfoam this can sometimes be a fairly short time). A better solution would be to find a mattress with a firmer latex in those cases where perimeter support is preferred rather than less durable polyfoam but this is an uncommon construction for latex, but most of the time.

While your husband’s BMI is not so far apart from yours, with his chronic backache and back sleeping positions he’d certainly do best with a firmer sleeping surface. For your side sleeping primary position however you’d generally need a bit more pressure point relief on the surface to accommodate the wider dimensional variances between the shoulders and the hips and the waist, which you seem to have traded for better edge support.

In response to your first alternative, I certainly understand your apprehension of "process repeat " especially when you were so close to something you both liked … albeit in different configurations. 3 zippered layers would certainly give you more options to fine-tune the feel. Assuming that you find something that best suits your own sleeping needs I’d keep in mind that it may be at the expense of being suitable for your husband and that you may need to be giving up on the edge support while sitting. Having mattress in a dual split configuration could prove useful in your situation and you may wish to consider it.

Even though there is no formula that can predict with any certainty what type of layering you may do best with that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience, you can use insights you’ve gained in your online purchase along with guidance of a knowledgeable and experienced retailer/manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness, etc.) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs, options, and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else. If you chose to stick with the local store alternative(s), you’d still need to consider the comfort/support suitability for your husband.

Assuming that and that the base is strong enough and supported on the floor well enough to hold the weight of the latex mattress and the people that sleep on it and assuming that the slats have no flex that there is a less than 3" gap between them, placing a solid surface on slats would not have impact on the feel and firmness of the mattress If anything it would have an effect on the breathability and ventilation of the mattress as a whole.

As far as the pillowtop goes… pillowtop is just a tailoring process and not an indicator of the softness, quality or specific materials contained within a mattress and you would not have the ability to fine-tune this mattress should you need it.

I hope this gives you a bit of direction in moving forward with your next decision
Phoenix

76

Hi,
Is it still not possible to start a new thread? I would like to ask about buying box springs, please. In particular, I am wondering if anyone can give a review for the Berkeley Ergonomics Suspension Foundation sold by Calgary’s Mattress and Sleep Company.

I have a decades old coil mattress and box spring set. The mattress continues to serve me well, but the box spring is rapidly falling apart. Part of one side is caving in. Unfortunately, I am having trouble finding proper box springs, as opposed to solid foundations. The only true box springs I’ve found are well out of my price range.

I am disabled, so I spend most of my time in bed. I need something that will offer good support, but also help continue to extend the life of my mattress. From what I’ve read so far, modern solid foundations aren’t going to do that for me. Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

77

Hi aladrieth.

And welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Sorry to hear about your box spring foundation failing … I’d be curious to know why you think that solid foundations would not work for you? What type of mattress do you sleep on as this is an integral part of how the entire sleeping system serves you. “Box springs” are more important than many people realize as depending on the type they act as shock absorbers (have some give in working with the mattress instead of against it).

As far as solutions go I’d start with the manufacturer of the mattress you currently own and ask for their recommendation for warranty reasons. Was your mattress part of a sleeping system with a flexible slat foundation or with a “box spring” or with solid wood slats (most of them are)? The “box spring” terminology may be misleading as it comes from far back in the “old days” when they truly were springs used under a mattress. Some manufacturers design their mattresses to be used over a flexible or tension adjustable slated foundation which is an active and important part of the complete sleeping system (although again this is usually with thinner mattresses). This type of foundation is more commonly found in Europe so you are correct that you’d have fewer options available. What is your budget range? And finally … Canada or US?

We’ll be moving your post shortly to it’s dedicated thread. Hopefully, someone who has had some experience with the Berkeley Ergonomics Suspension Foundation will chime in. I am not sure if you had a look through the Foundation thread here but this is a good place to start your research … specifically, post #3 linked to in that thread.

Phoenix