Good luck on your searches. I just sent back our Sleep EZ 10000 yesterday. It came in 3 boxes and I had to find another smaller box to put the cover in by itself. I used a shop vac to shrink them down in plastic and packing tape. Definitely goes better with two people. Iāll say that Sleep EZ is great to deal with, even if you are returning. No questions asked and if you have questions about how to ship it back they will gladly help. Super customer service for sure. They will email you the labels to ship back UPS. Good luck on your hunt. Iām giving Brooklyn Bedding a shot with the Aloe Alexis and hoping it wonāt be as bouncy as the 10000.
I have no worries about Sleep EZās customer service or return policies, theyāve been great to work with.
Just curious, what was it that you didnāt like about your 10000 mattress?
The 10000 was ok for me. My wife did not like it. We do not have much for local options so we had never even tried latex before. She felt it was too bouncy and said it felt like it reminded her of laying on a cheap air mattress. If we wouldāve driven 2 hours to try an all latex bed I could have avoided trying to order one.
Hi gme109,
Iām sorry to hear that your SleepEZ mattress didnāt work out as well as you hoped for but at least you had the foresight to choose a mattress that has a good return policy.
There are some suggestions in post #5 here that may be helpful and SleepEZ will likely have some good suggestions as well.
Outside of the suggestions and guidelines in the tutorial ā¦ it seems that you are more sensitive than most people in terms of the range of comfort/support (PPP) that works well for you so post #2 here has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either online or locally) that can help you minimize the risks involved with each of them of making a choice that doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for.
In one of your previous posts you mentioned you are in the Denver area and the better options or possibilities Iām aware of in the area (subject to the guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.
Phoenix
Thanks again Phoenix. Iām aware of all the mattress companies you mentioned in the Denver area, except for Haikudesigns.
I bought my last mattress from Innomax, it was their Convert-A-Bed, with latex inserts. I did look into that bed again, but theyāve lowered the quality of the materials they use.
I tried one more combination with my Sleep EZ mattress, soft, firm, med. extra firm. It helped with low back pain in the morning, but did not provide enough pressure relief lying on my side. I really think my only option left is going with a mattress that allows me to tweak the zoning from head to toe. Iām surprised there are not more companies offering this feature with latex beds. I would think it would help with increasing their customer satisfaction, for those problem cases like mine. As you know Flo Beds offers this feature, but Iām not trilled with the warranty they offer, only a 5 year non-prorated.
Hi gme109,
This at least indicates that there is a combination that produces good alignment for you without zoning and once you have good alignment then itās usually possible to do some additional fine tuning for pressure relief and comfort with a mattress pad or a topper that is āenoughā to provide the additional pressure relief you need but not so thick/soft that it affects alignment or in some cases by changing the mattress cover but of course this can also involve some trial and error.
If a zoned mattress is a good āmatchā for you then this type of fine tuning may not be necessary but itās also a little more complex and specialized to find a zoned mattresses where the layers and the zones work well for a specific person. Youāve probably read this but just in case you havenāt there is more about the pros and cons of zoning in post #11 here and the posts it links to.
Warranties only cover defects in a mattress or the materials inside it and not the gradual loss of comfort and support that is the reason that most people need to replace a mattress and if a latex layer is defective then it will usually show up in the first year of ownership . There is more about warranties in post #174 here.
Phoenix
To answer my original question, why is my foam cushion sofa more comfortable that my new latex mattress?
Iāve come to the conclusion that there must be some defective layers.
I did figure out that I needed to go firmer than my original configuration, extra firm, firm, med, soft.
My last post, I was going with, extra firm, firm, soft, med. and I had made some progress. But a week later I started sinking in too far, and waking up with back pain again.
As a last ditch effort, I tried, extra firm, soft, firm, med, and had almost a week of great sleep. But towards the end of the week, the same thing, I started sinking in too far and experiencing low back pain.
When I switched to the other half of the mattress, which was configured the same, extra firm, soft, firm, med. I was able to sleep fine, and woke up with no back pain.
No way latex should break down and soften that much in a week. The only thing I can figure is, one or more of the layers are defective.
At this point the whole mattress needs to be returned, as there is no way Iām going to try and figure out which of the layers are bad.
Not sure I want to gamble again with a mattress from the internet. Yeah Iām more than a little frustrated!
Hi gme109,
Iām sorry to hear that your mattress isnāt working out for you but itās very unlikely that one of your layers are defective and it would be almost unheard of that more than one of them are.
Pressure relief or alignment issues arenāt an indication of a defective layer but unfortunately there will always be a small percentage of people that donāt do well on any of the available combinations that they try.
While there may still be some combinations or options that you havenāt tried (including 3 layer combinations) ā¦ I can certainly understand that there comes a point where the process of rearranging or changing layers can become more complex and/or time consuming than itās worth and and in these few cases the good news is that you had the foresight to choose a manufacturer that has a good return policy.
Phoenix
But if the feel of the mattress changes significantly over the course of one week, and the other side of the mattress, which is configured the same, feels completely different, something is amiss. I sept on a latex mattress for 10 years, and the feel of it never changed that significantly, until the end of 10 years.
I really think I have a defect layer somewhere on the side Iāve been sleeping on. Sleep EZ asked me to compare the two sides by opening up the mattress and testing each layer. But naturally the side Iāve been sleeping on 2 months is going to be somewhat softer than the other side, which Iāve only slept on a few times. Not sure if playing detective here is going to help sort this out.
Logically I should sleep on the other side for 2 months, then compare each layer from both sides. This however puts me past my 90 day return period. And for that reason alone, the mattress is probably going to have to go back, and Iāll start from scratch again, somewhere else.
Hi gme109,
I donāt know the specifics of the latex mattress that you used to sleep on but there are hundreds of latex mattress designs that are all very different from each other (and many are only "partly latex) and will feel very different so this may not be a good reference point. It would be useful if you knew the specifics of the latex mattress you used to own.
One of the comments that you made here is interesting ā¦
How long did you sleep on this side of the mattress and did the same thing happen?
If it didnāt ā¦ then at least you would know that if there is a defective layer that itās in the āotherā side.
If there is a defective layer in your mattress then itās most likely to be in the soft layer (although of course this isnāt certain)
Given your comments about sleeping on the couch as well and since your mattress is softer than your couch this may be a pointer that you may do best with no soft layer at all.
If you are open to considering it then it may be worthwhile trying a 3 layer combination such as XF/F/M or even XF/M/M (the cover will be loose but that would be OK for the experiment) to see how it works for you and how itās different from the combinations you have tried.
Phoenix
My last latex mattress was from Innomax. It was their Convert-A-bed. It had 2 high density 6" latex inserts, one for each side, and then a 1" zoned layer of poly foam, and a 4" layer of med density convoluted latex, with a 1" or so layer of Dacron polyester fill on the top. So there were some inferior materials used in this mattress, poly foam and Dacron. But the main point here is, the feel of the mattress pretty much remained the same through most of itās life.
I will be sleeping on the other side to see how that pans out over the next week.
And I will also try the 3 layer approach. Those I believe are my last options.
Hi gme109,
Thanks for the details about your last mattress. If the top layer was also medium density latex then this could also āpoint toā a firmer sleeping surface working better for you.
A similar version in a 4 layer approach (that would also verify whether the issue was with your soft layer) would be XF/F/M/M on one side of your mattress (the other side would have both soft layers).
If you can confirm that the issue only happens with a soft layer then it may also be worth talking to SleepEZ about exchanging your soft layer.
Phoenix
As frustrating as this process can be, I do enjoy trying to figure out and unravel the science of finding the right mattress. Not only to benefit myself, but hopefully help others, by pointing them in the right direction.
I visited Sleep Nation here in Littleton Colorado yesterday, and spent considerable time trying out their Wazee St mattress.
I would say theyāre one of the best places here in the Denver area to purchase a latex mattress. Very knowledgeable staff, along with being upfront about all of the materials used in their mattresses. The Wazee St uses latex from Latexco, which I believe is the distributer of Radium Talalay latex here in the U.S., which also happens to be the latex used in my Sleep EZ 13000 mattress.
The Wazee St is configured differently than my 13000. It starts out using a 1" layer of high density soy foam as a stabilizer, followed by a 6" layer of 36-40 ILD all natural Talalay, and then a 5" topper of 28-22 ILD all natural Talalay, which is in-between the firmness of my 13000 med and soft ILD. Based on this short term subject trial, it not only felt very comfortable, allowing my shoulder to sink in enough to relief pressure points when lying on my side, but it also seemed to provide much better support than any of the combinations I have tried with my 13000, which has me somewhat puzzled. Of course the short time I spent on it is no indication of what I will feel like after sleeping on it for a week or longer. I think I know for sure the soft layer of my 13000 is too soft, and although the medium layer on top does provide better support, it just doesnāt feel very comfortable, especially with the firm layer underneath it. The Wazee St seemed to strike the right balance of comfort and support.
Another thing I noticed was the firmness of the mattress felt much more consistent from side to side, and top to bottom. Not sure if that is because itās the showroom model and itās completely broken in, or because it only uses 2 layers, vs 8 in the 13000.
With more layers, you run the risk that similar firmnesses may not match each other, because they all fall within a range. Where as one layer is coming from the same pour, and should be more consistent throughout.
Iād really would like to try this mattress out, but they DO NOT offer a money back guarantee, only a ONE time trade to another mattress, over the course of a year. Knowing my difficulty in finding the right mattress, this is way too risky.
Not sure if Sleep EZ offers different thickness, other than 3", or if they can get a firmer soft, something in the 28-22 range, instead of 22-19.
Hi gme109,
Yes ā¦ Latexco supplies Radium Talalay and also several other types and blends of latex including their own continuous pour Dunlop. I have also found Sleep Nation to be knowledgeable about the mattresses they sell as well.
I would keep in mind that there are many factors that affect how firm or soft a mattress feels including the thickness of the layers and the type of cover that is used (quilted vs a stretch cover). How two mattresses compare in terms of firmness/softness and āfeelā will also be affected by the weight, body type, and sleeping position of the person on the mattress so two mattresses that feel very similar to one person may feel different to someone else depending on how much they are sinking into the mattress and which of the layers they are feeling. If for example you have two mattresses that both have a 6" 36 ILD core and one mattress uses 3" of a specific ILD and another one uses 2" of the same ILD they can feel very different because with the thinner layer you would āfeelā more of the firmness of the deeper layer. Some layer combinations that use different ILDās can also āaverage outā to feel very similar to a single layer that only uses a single ILD (at least for some people). Iām mentioning this because changing only one of the many variables that can affect how a mattress feels and performs (such as changing your top layer ILD to āmatchā the Wazee) without taking the other variables into account may not have the effect you are looking for because some of the other variables (such as layer thickness) would still be different.
You can also see the ILD ranges for Radiumherebutnoneofthemmatchthehttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/966/NewRadiumILD1_2014-04-17.gif]Radium0lowerrangeandtheN6Fwouldbehttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/9(theownerofSleepNation)Ibelievehttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/8thanthisrangeandwouldprobablybehttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/7wouldprobablybeclosertohavingtwohttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/4https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/5https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/6mattress.
They may be able to custom order a different firmness (you could ask them) but with all the variables involved and and the different layer thicknesses I donāt think it would turn out the way you hoped for and I think your closest approximation would probably be two medium layers on top of your mattress.
Phoenix
Drum roll pleaseā¦After sleeping for a week on extra firm, firm, medium, medium, I believe I finally found the right combination!!! I thank you again for all of your advice.
Waking up with no lower back pain, and I feel pretty comfortable lying on both my back and side.
At first it felt a little too firm lying on my side, compared to the previous combination I was trying, which was extra firm, soft, firm, medium, but the low back pain started to disappear, so I continued through the week. After some break in on the medium layer I hadnāt been sleeping on, lying on my side started to feel more comfortable.
Iāll be swapping out the two soft split layers for two medium splits layers, but may opt for one full medium layer instead.
I think having the top layer as one piece would eliminate any chance of feeling the split in the middle, although it could limit the number of possible combinations, if my preferences change down the road.
Hi gew109,
One drum roll coming up ā¦
And maybe a fireworks display as well ā¦
Thatās great news ā¦ and thanks for letting us know 
Phoenix
Violins pleaseā¦The extra firm, firm, med. med. ended up being too firm for my shoulders. After some physically demanding days, I was not getting enough pressure relief for my shoulders while lying on my side. Iāve come to the conclusion that there is no four layer combination that works, with the current ILDās I have to work with. No matter where I place the soft layer it compromises proper support, but eliminating the soft layer compromises pressure relief. I believe if I had a firmer soft layer, I may be able to make the four layer combination work. Giving up on the four layer combination I decided to try a three layer combination. The extra firm, med. soft combo seems to be a step in the right direction, although Iām now somewhat hesitant to claim victory, given my tract record. The soft layer on top is giving me better pressure relief, and by eliminating a layer and getting closer to the foundation, I have better support. The problem is my 90 day trial period is just about up, but thankfully Sleep Ez is has given me another 30 days. Time will tell. Wish me luck.
Hi gme109,
It sounds like you are going one step forward and then one step back :unsure:
This is the Adagio in G Minor by Albinoni which is one of my favorite pieces of classical music and has been called one of the saddest or most āemotiveā ever written.
Itās possible that the soreness you experienced was the result of your daily activities or that itās a pillow issue (see my comments in post #14 here).
Iām not sure how much difference a minor variation of the āsoftā range (if it was a significant difference it wouldnāt be in the soft range any more) would really make given your previous feedback and it would be unusual that this would help much. A difference in layer thickness may make a bigger difference but of course this is all speculation that would need to be confirmed in your personal experience. Itās also possible that a combination that works for you āsomeā or āmostā of the time may not work for you āallā of the time which may point to other types of solutions as well (such as stretching or muscle strengthening exercises) which can also make a significant difference in situations such as yours that are more āchallengingā.
I hope that the three layer combination you are currently trying works out well for you for a little longer than some of the other combinations that were āpromisingā at first!
Phoenix
I really like the classical piece you linked, and have added it to my collection, thanks!
I did start doing some stretching exercises about 4 months ago, and it definitely has helped.
So has the 3 layer combination, which has allowed me to have a great nights sleep, and wake up feeling rested. But the extra firm, medium, soft, ended up being a little too firm for side sleeping, so I went with firm, medium, soft, which ended up being very comfortable and great for side sleeping, and although it feels quite comfortable lying on my back, Iām still waking up with a stiff back, but nowhere near as bad as it was with 4 layers. After a hot shower and some stretches, my back is fine all day long, even after a hard days work, itās only troublesome upon rising in the morning. I believe Iām zeroing in on it, but Iām also running out of time, as Iām closely approaching the end of my extra month extension with Sleep EZ. So Iām afraid Iāll have to send the mattress back, and start again with another company. The only ideas I can come up with, that might help, is going with a bed that offers some zoning, which might help to strike the right balance between pressure relief and proper support. Besides Flo beds, I found another company from your list which offers some zoning, Cozy Pure. I noticed that their zoning is in the bottom core layer, instead of under the second from the top layer which Flo beds uses. So undecided which may offer the greatest benefit.
On a side note, Iāve started packing up the extra firm layers of my Sleep EZ mattress. I read through the link you provided, and called Sleep EZ for some tips. They made it sound so easy, just roll the 2 split layers up, pop them in a bag, then slide the bag into the box. What they didnāt mention, nor did the linked info., was it most likely will take two people to accomplish this feat! I struggled and wrestled with the 2 split layers, trying to get them rolled up tight enough to go into a heavy duty 42 gallon contracted trash bag, but it was a no go. Went out a purchased some 50 gallon trash bags, but because they were nowhere as heavy duty as the contracted bags, by the time I go the 2 layers inside, the bag was torn, and full of holes, so I couldnāt use a vac to get the air out. By now I was fit to be tied, and called back and spoke to Jeremy this time, at Sleep EZ, who said, oh yeah one person can not accomplish this task. After I mentioned that help was not available, and I was going to have to do this alone, he was able to arrange a shipping deal that wouldnāt cost more, if I had to use more boxes. He also recommended using a 27" TV/Microwave box from UHaul, and packing one layer in it, and the other in the original box. As it turned out, I was able to easily pack both layers into the 27" TV/Microwave box.
And so the sage continues.
Hi gme109,
Itās very unusual that there would be such a noticeable difference in pressure relief between an XF layer on the bottom and a F layer on the bottom if the other two layers are the same since most of the pressure relief comes from the upper layers. In theory the XF on the bottom could slightly improve the firmness of the primary support and help āhold upā the pelvis and hips a little more over the course of the night and could also help with the stiffness in the morning if itās coming from support layers that are very slightly too soft. Having said that ā¦ it seems clear from your ongoing feedback that you are much more sensitive than most people and some very slight differences that most people wouldnāt notice can make a bigger difference over the course of the night for some people that are more sensitive.
Based on your feedback (and assuming that there was still ātimeā) I would probably give the XF bottom layer a little longer.
The ākeyā with a zoned mattress is that the specific zoning is a good match for your body type, sleeping positions, and weight distribution. Like all mattress designs ā¦ different zoning patterns can be an improvement for some people while the same zoning pattern can be detrimental to others depending on the specifics of the zones and how well they āmatchā the person sleeping on the mattress. The only way to know with certainty is based on your own personal experience.
Besides zoning ā¦ layer firmness, layer thickness, the properties of the type of latex (or another type of component) you are using, and the type of cover and quilting can also make a difference in whether a particular mattress design and combination of layers and components is a good match for someone.
I donāt know if you are still up for it or not or if you have already completed your packaging for the return but it may still be worth calling SleepEZ to see if they would give you an additional slight extension to try the XF on the bottom for a little longer (possibly in combination with a different pillow as well which may also make a difference in upper body pressure issues) but if there are no other options available or if you would rather just return the mattress and try something different then at least you gave the mattress and different layering combinations a good try.
As you mentioned assembling a component latex mattress or packaging it up for return is much easier with two people than it is with one. Iām glad that Jeremy was able to arrange a solution that works for you.
Phoenix