ILD of Latex layer in Nest Bedding Love bed (FIRM/King size)

Hi zexpress,

See my reply to amun two posts previous to this one.

ILD information by itself is among the least important information you would need to know when you are purchasing a mattress and will tell you very little about how a mattress will feel to you.

Phoenix

jmor88.

They have absolutely no reason to “hide” any relevant information about their mattress and from my perspective they are completely open and transparent about all the materials in their mattress that would in any way be relevant (and are more transparent than most of the industry). Your comments seem somewhat odd to me.

Just for clarification as well … none of the materials in the Love Bed are “mostly natural”. The Talalay layer is blended Talalay (about 30% natural and 70% synthetic rubber) and the polyfoam in the quilting layer and the support core is of course a synthetic material.

Phoenix

Where do you see the Love Bed uses Talalay latex? In my email discussion with Joe he said it uses Dunlop.

Thanks zexpress/jmor88/Phoenix for your replies!!
i agree with Phoenix, regarding overall feel of the bed, but it will give an idea(at least) what we are getting

&

as jmor88 pointed out, i feel more comfortable with manufacturers who gives FULL details about the product they are selling. the product may contain best or good or bad materials, but the final product may be BEST.
i would like to be the JUDGE of what i am getting into & always lean towards buying who is OPEN about their products.

Thanks for the reply Phoenix! I tried looking for the information on their website but I was unable to find it. It would be nice if they would update their website to include that information as well as include an email address or contact form, because I had a hard time finding that as well.

It would be nice if Joe came in here and cleared things up for us :slight_smile:

Hi zexpress,

Sorry … the information I listed was incorrect and should have said that their latex is synthetic convoluted continuous pour Dunlop made by Mountaintop foam in the US. I’ve corrected my original reply … and thanks for bringing the mistake to my attention.

Phoenix

[quote=“Phoenix” post=53992]Hi zexpress,

Sorry … the information I listed was incorrect and should have said that their latex is synthetic convoluted continuous pour Dunlop made by Mountaintop foam in the US. I’ve corrected my original reply … and thanks for bringing the mistake to my attention.

Phoenix[/quote]

No worries but this is sorta the point that I think is being made in this thread. While I don’t think Nest is purposely trying to hide what their mattress is made of it could lead to that impression. Simply answering the questions being asked on their site and via email instead of generic responses has got to be better for business than leaving people wondering why their question isn’t being answered or having to rely on incorrect information because the proper information isn’t supplied on their site.

Hi amun,

[quote]i agree with Phoenix, regarding overall feel of the bed, but it will give an idea(at least) what we are getting

&

as jmor88 pointed out, i feel more comfortable with manufacturers who gives FULL details about the product they are selling. the product may contain best or good or bad materials, but the final product may be BEST.
i would like to be the JUDGE of what i am getting into & always lean towards buying who is OPEN about their products.[/quote]

The ILD range for the mountaintop synthetic Dunlop continuous pour latex doesn’t even closely compare to the ILD’s of other types and blends of latex and the convoluting and the other layers in the mattress will also have a significant effect on how soft or firm their mattresses are so knowing the ILD won’t provide any meaningful information about how soft or firm their latex is compared to other types and blends of latex. Even worse … if a consumer somehow believed that their ILD range was comparable to other types and blends of latex or was a reliable way to know how soft or firm their mattresses would feel compared to other mattresses that used the same ILD in a single layer of latex that was a different type or blend of latex then they would be making a firmness choice based on information that would mislead them much more than help them. This is the type of information that consumers may “think” is meaningful but really isn’t.

Quite frankly if I was a retailer I wouldn’t provide the ILD information to my customers because I would realize that it would cause more harm than good and any knowledgeable manufacturer or retailer would also realize this as well. There would be little point in providing information that is misleading even if it’s accurate if you know ahead of time that it would be “mistranslated” and could too easily cause the type of feedback that says “but you told me that the ILD was such and such but it’s much firmer/softer than you told me it was”.

The ILD also has nothing to do with the quality of the material and is only a measure of softness/firmness that can be used to make relative comparisons with other latex layers that are the same type and blend of latex (or are convoluted in exactly the same way). It can’t be used to reliably compare softness/firmness between different types and blends of latex or latex layers that have any surface modifications.

Having said that … and even though it would be mostly meaningless … I have talked with Joe (the owner) and he has told me that he would provide the ILD range for their latex for those who ask.

Phoenix

Hi amun,

I would point out that the mistake was mine … not theirs … and I would be very cautious about criticizing a manufacturer or retailer that is completely transparent about all the materials in their mattress and will actually provide more information than I would if I was in their shoes when the vast majority of the retailers/manufacturers in the industry aren’t. There are limits to the “value” of transparency when a consumer doesn’t have the knowledge or experience to “translate” some of the information they are provided into something that would be meaningful to them.

Providing information that is meaningless to 99% of consumers only turns the “simplified choice” category into a “overwhelmingly complex choice” category.

If you are purchasing an online mattress then it would be somewhat strange to me if someone didn’t talk with them first either to make sure that the questions that are important to them are answered or to get some guidance about their firmness choices and buying a mattress without first communicating with the retailer/manufacturer first (outside of email … see post #4 here) I believe is a mistake.

@jmor88,

[quote]Thanks for the reply Phoenix! I tried looking for the information on their website but I was unable to find it. It would be nice if they would update their website to include that information as well as include an email address or contact form, because I had a hard time finding that as well.

It would be nice if Joe came in here and cleared things up for us :)[/quote]

Hopefully all your questions are answered now but if they aren’t they are only a phone call away and as I mentioned in the first part of this reply I would never look for answers to complex questions that have any “it depends” or “qualifiers” in the answer or that would require more than a single sentence “black and white” answer with an email.

Phoenix

Hi again Phoenix, I went ahead and purchased the Love Bed - medium firm level, I hope it’s not too firm for me! Thanks again for your help!

Hi jmor88,

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

As you know I think you made a great quality/value choice and I hope you have the chance to share your comments and feedback when you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

Man! I have been overwhelmed with the launch of The Love Bed and the overwhelming crush of orders, I am sorry I have not been able to post anything. And of course we don’t need to hide anything, come on now :slight_smile:

In the Soft we are using a convoluted C1 from Mt Top in the 19-22 range
In the Med we are using a convoluted C2 from Mt Top in the 26-30 range
In the Firm we are using a convoluted C4 from Mt Top in the 34-40 range

This is the dunlop process latex. In the Soft and Medium we have a small amount of convoluted foam above the latex, so please remember that if you are trying to gauge the feel strictly off these ranges it will feel different

Thanks everyone!

Ouch! Just found out that our [email protected] email address has been hung up and not forwarding through so there was weeks of inquiries in there. I am very sorry to all who wrote and didn’t hear back. I pride myself on responding to all customers personally. I am very sorry!

From what I can tell, from the description of the Love Bed on the Nest Bedding site, there’s about a couple inches of that convoluted foam above that latex. What’s the density (and perhaps any other relevant specs) of the foam?

Hi jjramsey,

The soft and medium uses 1.5" of quilting foam and the firm uses 1" of quilting foam (I confirmed this in a conversation with Joe).

With thin layers of quilting foam the density isn’t important to know because it doesn’t have a significant effect on the durability or useful life of the mattress and is more for the “surface feel” and to provide some additional softness to the mattress (see this article and the foam quality guidelines it links to). Quilting foam is often in a 1.2 - 1.5 lb density range although it can also be more or less than this as well.

Of course once a quilting layer is 2" or thicker then i would want to know the density because thicker layers of lower density materials can have a more significant effect on foam softening and can be a weak link in a mattress. The IFD of the quilting foam also wouldn’t be important for all the reasons I listed in my earlier replies in this topic and also because the quilting pattern will have a bigger effect on the firmness of the quilting foam than the IFD of the foam.

A requirement to know “every spec” in a mattress or to know some of the specs that aren’t meaningful or relevant or important can reach a point of diminishing returns and can make looking for a good quality/value mattress much more complex than it needs to be.

Phoenix

@nestbedding Thank you very much!!
may be a stupid question what are c1, c2, c4 represent ?
(i did a search on oeko tex site & google, nothing…)

Hi amun,

They are firmness ratings that Mountaintop foam uses for their latex. Each firmness rating (from C0 which is the softest to C5 which is the firmness) has an ILD range that is associated with it although their ILD ranges don’t match the ILD ranges of other latex manufacturers that make different types and blends of latex. There is more about ILD ratings in post #6 here. It’s certainly not something that is particularly important to know

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix!!
i really appreciate your efforts in these forums & definitely gave good knowledge on mattresses :slight_smile:
have a nice long weekend.

Hi Phoenix,

So it’s been about a month since I’ve started sleeping on the Love Bed. There were no strong initial odors when I first opened it up, but I let it air out for a day just to be sure the gasses dissipated and for the mattress to expand fully. I ordered the medium firmness and it’s very soft and plushy. I can lay on my stomach and fall asleep no problem! I also ordered Organics & More Naturesoft percale sheets to compliment the bed. This was my first bed purchase but comparing it to my Mom’s guest Serta, it is much more comfortable. I’m getting better sleep now which is great for me. My arms don’t fall asleep anymore and I haven’t been waking up with headaches either. I think the only weak link I have right now is my pillow. I’ve ordered a buckwheat pillow which will arrive next week so I am hoping that I will sleep even better with that.

I know I didn’t review the bed very well, (I have no idea how to review a bed!), but I can tell you that I would give it a good 9/10 rating. Why not a 10? I can still feel my girlfriend move around at night sometimes, but not all the time. She only weighs 115, so I’m not sure why I would be feeling her. We’ve both been sleeping better at night, so I feel this was a worthwhile purchase that I intend to keep for several long years.

Short version: this is a great bed! I highly recommend it. Not too expensive and still provides great comfort!

Thank you Phoenix!

Hi jmor88,

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback about your Love Bed … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

I’ll be interested in hearing your comments about your buckwheat pillow as well. You can read a few comments about buckwheat pillows in the pillow thread in post #11 and #13 here and in in post #23 here. They are certainly very unusual compared to most other pillows and some people love them and some people … not so much.

Latex is generally “good” at motion isolation but it certainly doesn’t completely isolate all the movements from one side to another and it’s not as motion isolating as memory foam. For most people that aren’t unusually sensitive a latex comfort layer with a polyfoam quilted cover such as yours would be “motion isolating enough” and even though they would still be able to feel their partner’s movements when they are awake … it wouldn’t be enough to wake them up or affect them if they are sleeping.

Phoenix