Thanks Phoenix - The only other question I have is the pure bliss mattresses use a fusion layer that is supposed to keep you cooler and warmer based on the temperature, thus it seems to make it different than any other latex mattress. I understand people trying to match the model they like. Am I to understand that when it comes to the that layer in particular there isnt a company that offers it? I couldnt find a response mentioning it in this forum.
Hi mike7,
You can read a little more about Talalay GL fast response in post #5 here. It is basically blended Talalay latex with phase change gel added to it to help give it a bit of an edge with temperature regulation compared to regular Talalay. Part of the reason for its intrduction I believe was also to “compete” with some of the gel memory foams at least in terms of peception because latex is already one of the most breathable of all the foam materials.
Sleep Like a Bear carries it (although they still call it Celsion) in all three ILD’s that Latex International makes available.
Mattresses.net also carries the Talalay GL slow response version as far as I know.
Phoenix
We have a Pure Latex Bliss-the nature model. We have only had it a week and a half but we couldn’t be happier. I am extremely sensitive to odors and outgassing. I expected there to be a slight smell from the mattress but I never noticed one. We bought the PLB pillows as well and for a few days they did have what I would describe as a slight lemony smell. It didn’t give me a headache and almost smelled good. The mattress has reduced my husbands chronic pain. We haven’t felt at all hot and have slept better than we have in a long time. I have no complaints at all.
thank you for the response The Pure Bliss beautiful mattress is 4300 plus tax and the topper is $499 — but I liked the feel —So many confusing reviews as to the online stores where people try to mimick the pure bliss It gets very frustrating especially when the savings can be $1500. Flobeds and the zoning mattresses seems a bit odd to me as the zones may not fall into the different heights. Their videos demonstrate how it works and the man lays on the bed but his head is further down than most people sleep. Reading these sites only adds to the confusion lol. Sleep ez seems like a good choice but they dont use the cooling gel layer like purebliss and some of the reviews dont seem that great. Is it possible to purchase a purebliss online to avoid the tax?
Its tooo bad people dont post reviews after a tear or so but I guess thats how we are wired. Once they get their beds they no longer have a need to come here
Whoa. That seems like a high price. You should be able to find a better deal than that on the beautiful. We tried that model as well but decided it was too soft for us. You will have to call around because of the MAP pricing they can’t advertise a lower price.
Hi mike7,
I agree with wavycat and you could do much better for a mattress with 12" of latex.
I would also take online reviews with a big grain of salt … most people who write reviews have little knowledge about mattresses (or what they have purchased). You can read more about reviews in post #13 here. I haven’t seen a legitimate poor review for SleepEz. There are always a small minority of customers who have difficulty finding their ideal layering with any component mattress (or any mattress for that matter) but that has nothing to do with the quality of the mattress or their service and it also doesn’t reflect the fact that the large majority of their customers are happy with the layering they end up with and are happy that they had the chance to fine tune their mattress after their purchase when it was necessary.
I think you would do well to talk with some of the manufacturers you are mentioning so you can get more accurate and meaningful information about their mattresses. In the case of Fobeds and SleepEz you will get more meaningful information about their mattress in a phone conversation directly with them than you would from spending many hours reading reviews.
As I mentioned in an earlier reply I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the gel in talalay GL latex because Talalay is already the most breathable of all the foam materials and you may be thinking it’s more important or effective than it is. You can read a little more about the many factors that can affect the temperature of a mattress (besides just the type of foam used) in post #2 here.
There are several places you may be able to order a PLB mattress online including http://www.themattressexpert.com/pure-latexbliss.html and it may be worth talking to https://www.mattresses.net/ as well who are also PLB dealers.
Overall though … I would focus on following the steps in post #1 here one step at a time and this can help you bypass all the conflicting and in many cases misleading information that is so common in the industry and only adds to the confusion and “information overwhelm” of mattress shopping
Phoenix
thanks I have been looking for an online store that sells plb. I think this site adds to the knowledge or confusion, in one sense you break it down to the quality of materials which should simplify the problem. If all the materials are from latex international then simply use the ILD that you are comfortable with. If PLB has 3 layers and you know the IDL of each layer then you can go online and duplicate it. But as you can see here people ask you the same questions and many of those people have different opinions as to what they like eventually. Sleep ez uses a layering system with 4 3" layers but plb uses 3 layers but different widths. both total 12" Logically one would think there wouldn’t be a difference but there is. Maybe its more than just materials like the widths of the layers, or the quality. I was reading that healthy back uses pure latex bliss mattresses under a different name, maybe its not the same quality. Although Latex International is the main supplier maybe there are different quality groups. Why would a soft layer have a different IDL number than another company if they were from the same latex manufacturer. I read a post where you tried to breakdown the PLB mattresses by IDL and possibly come close using an online store and although they both get their latex from the same place their IDL’s are off by a few one way or the other.
As far as reviews go its logical to read what others have to say from the time they purchase to years after including the service the construction and the use. I have communicated with a few online sellers and they want to sell a mattress. If you call telling them you want to duplicate a Pure Latex Bliss Mattress they will find a way to do so or tell you why you shouldn’t.
Themattressexpert.com seeems to have a great price on the PLB Mattresses but are they the latest versions, are they ones that were sent back. There are so many companies online telling you how much better their product is yet they all but from the same source.
A pureLatexBliss mattress purchased from The Mattress Expert is shipped by freight from his partner Gardners Mattress in Lancaster, PA. It is brand new from the factory, the latest version. Do a Search by User Name for my posts on the PLB mattress and The Mattress Expert.
mike7,
I had some of the same thoughts as you and was also feeling really frustrated. Phoenix used the phrase analysis paralysis and that is exactly how I felt. For me buying local even if I had to pay tax was worth the peace of mind of having laid on the bed and knowing exactly what I was getting. The value of that comfort level easily offset the monetary loss. I also got to feel good about supporting a local business. Along the way I had great phone conversations with a few online sellers and learned more about latex than I knew there was to learn. I also got to lay on beds in several local stores. The end result was choosing a mattress that both my spouse and I are extremely pleased with. At one point a long the way I took a couple days off from researching and thought about what my comfort level was with all the choices I had. Once I decided that an online purchase was just too stressful for me I could concentrate on my local choices and decide between them.
I appreciate the comments now im more confused You are saying the mattress expert orders from another company? In their website it says they order direct.
Wavy the price locally for the Beautiful cal king is approx 4300 plus tax ----the price from the mattress expert is approx 3800 no tax and free delivery and setup. I have already tried this model locally. I understand not wanting to take a risk with online purchases where you havnt tried the matttress but this is my point- If I tried the Beautiful and I liked it are you saying If I order it online to save approx 950 it may not be what we tried at the store
thank you )
I would definitely order the beautiful to save that much. But I would approach your local dealer and offer him/her the chance to match that price. My point was about saving money on something sight unseen that might be the same thing. Clear as mud? :silly:
Hi mike7,
A mattress is much more than just the quality of the materials because the quality has little to do with how a mattress feels and performs and more to do with how long it will last. ILD specs alone will also tell you little about how a mattress feels or performs because it’s only one of many factors that determines the feel and performance of a mattress including the type of latex, the thickness of each layer, and the type of cover and quilting and many others. You can read a little more about “matching” another mattress in post #9 here and some of the “specs” involved in how a mattress feels and performs post #7 here and post #2 here.
It’s exactly the same materials … only the name has changed. Latex International supplies the exact same materials to mattress manufacturers as they use in their own mattresses which are sold under the Pure Late Bliss name. Many manufacturers change the name of a material into their own proprietary name.
If you use the same layer thicknesses, the same type of foam made by the same manufacturer, and the same type of cover, then you would have a very close “match”. ILD’s are always in a range (for example blended latex is in a range of about +/- 2) but for the most part these types of very small differences are below the threshold of detection for most people.
If they are knowledgeable and reputable they will give you accurate information about all the many variables that may be involved and help you set “reasonable expectations” for success. If they aren’t reputable and knowledgeable they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear in the hopes of making the sale.
There are many local retailers that also have lower prices than they are allowed to post online once you are in the store. The Mattress Experts sell only new mattresses (as BobP verified because he purchased from them) . When you are talking to a retailer that is telling you “how much better” their product is then I would just ask them how and why and then use this site (or others) as a “fact check” if you need to.
I think you may be overthinking things 
The Mattress Expert is an online company that works in partnership with several retail stores so that people can test some of their mattresses locally and to expedite delivery.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. If you test the Beautiful and like it then if you order it online it will be the same mattress. Where you order it from would be a matter of your own personal value equation that would hopefully take into account all the factors and criteria that were most important to you. I think Wavycat was outlining how buying locally was an important part of the “value” of their purchase and personal value equation.
Phoenix
Mike7,
I do not see anywhere on the The Mattress Expert website where it says they order direct. One of my internet shopping rules before I consider ordering from an etailer is do they have a physical address and is it clearly stated. The Mattress Expert does not. So I emailed him and asked about this. You can read more about it in this thread.
Thanks Bob for the reply — if you choose the pure bliss mattress and the model it states
"IMPORTANT DELIVERY INFORMATION
FREE DELIVERY & SET-UP…Continental US…all items on this page. NO SALES TAX
All mattresses are freshly made to fill your order."
Maybe not direct but freshly made.
You state one of your rules is to have a physical address and they dont yet in your thread you recommend them.
Frankly this gets stranger the more I research. From what I understand in order to be member here from a retailer they pay a certain fee, Im sure that has to be a conflict of interest for any forum trying to give bias-free advice (which is why I think if actual owners couldreport back it would be a great service).
It gets complicated the more I read and as you can see in these forums, thousands of people are asking the same questions.
If all these companies use the same materials why are there so many different opinions.
I was going to order the Pure Latex Bliss beautiful model until I read there are no comfort exchanges, then as I thought about it I thought I might try locally a layered bed like Saavy Rest and then try to look online for other layered companies.
Maybe 6" with 3" and 3" as in the Beautiful model, feels better because its six inches not two 3inch layers. Maybe the different layers move around in a layered system. I dont know. But if its just about the materials there wouldnt be such diversity .
As i said earlier Plushbeds Sleepez Coypure brooklyn Bedding Saavy Rest and many others get the same latex from the same manufacturer yet their ILDs are different for the same labels firm med soft.
I think I read where you ended up not liking the Pure Latex Bliss model you purchased and that it was in a guest room so it was that important
What do you use currently
As I stated in the other post. he could be more transparent on his website. Before I ordered from him I emailed him and asked him about his current business, where the PLB mattress would be shipped from, and what his comfort exchange policy was. He answers emails within 24 hours or less. I also know that he has been in the mattress business a long time. When I was researching mattresses back in 2004 he answered my questions on his blog, which he still runs.
The PLB mattress was purchased specifically for our guest room. My wife and I tried out PLB’s Pamper, Nature, Nutrition, and Beautiful models. We both agreed that the Nutrition and Beautiful were too soft, the Pamper too firm, and decided on the Nature because it is a medium firm and the price. After we tried it out at home for a few days I thought it was perfect but my wife, who has an artificial hip, found it a tad too firm. We are both side sleepers.
We currently sleep on a 10 year old 11" Sealy Reflections Newport hybrid latex mattress. I classify it as a hybrid because it has ~2" of poly foam sewn into the topper, latex comfort layers, and a 34 ILD Dunlop latex core. Because of the 2" of poly foam it is a bit softer than the PLB Nature. Maybe luck, or a good batch of poly foam, it has held up well, no body impressions or sagging. Sealy stopped producing the Reflection line a few years ago.
You can try using The Mattress Experts PLB mattress prices as a bargaining tool with your local PLB mattress retailers.
thanks again I just received the following response from mattresses.net regarding pure latex bliss — As I stated earlier reviews are a great unbiased opinion -talking to dealers doesnt necessarily get you the straight answers— they are in business to make a living- I wouldnt feel comfortable simply buying from a dealer thats trying to reproduce a PLB mattress unless they specifically told me the specs etc… and I read reviews on others that have done this. Can you tell me what they mean"all natural wool inside a bamboo cover" means. The plb cover seemed like it was pretty good.
peace
Besides being a latex mattress manufacturer I am also a PLB authorized dealer which means I have the Beautiful on my showroom floor. No one buys it because I can duplicate the feel for much less. You would be looking around 2 grand to duplicate on using our all natural wool inside a quilted bamboo cover instead of their plain stretch cover that has a chemically treated fire barrier underneath. Call me to discuss options.
Hi mike7,
I think that the best reply to this is in post #5 here.
I certainly have biases but it’s towards quality, value, and service, and accurate and meaningful information wherever I see it whether they are a member or not. Membership here is by invitation only and is not open to any retailer or manufacturer who asks. The “value” of any mattress purchase is self evident if you follow the information here and learn “how” to choose (which is the goal of the site) and has nothing to do with membership. There is a big difference between factual information, marketing information, and opinion.
When a reputable manufacturer says something that puts them at risk of a return based on your own perceptions … it’s in their own self interest to give you information that is as accurate as possible or they would lose money. You can read more about “matching” one mattress to another in post #9 here. What they mean is that the mattress they would suggest would be a close approximation or “equivalent” for most people. They are familiar with the “feel” of both mattresses since they carry them both which is why I suggested you call and talk to them (not email).
It means their cover is made from bamboo fiber quilted with wool instead of being a stretch knit with no wool (which would require a fire barrier other than wool). You can read more about the different types of fabrics (including some of the viscose/rayon types of fabrics such as bamboo) in post #7 here. You can read more about the pros and cons of wool quilting in post #6 here.
Phoenix
Yes however I read a post you made where you stated you can only recommend those that are members. Certainly there are companies that are not members here that use the same quality latex. You certainly are informative and obviously have educated yourself, yet the fact that members pay and their business and yours profit from this can create an uncertainty. Its only human.
“When a reputable manufacturer says something that puts them at risk of a return based on your own perceptions … it’s in their own self interest to give you information that is as accurate as possible or they would lose money”
The company I listed in this post and the Email sent, has a no return policy based on not liking the mattress as do most. Returns without cost are typically for defective not comfort unless you pay a fee. There are posts in this forum that detail returns and how companies deal with them. I don;t think there has been one dealer I communicated with that hasnt claimed their product was the best. In fact Mattresss.nets website comments a few other companies claiming they are not as good as they are. To claim you are a PLB dealer and you never sell them because you can duplicate the same mattress probably wouldnt make Pure Latex Bliss very happy.
In fact you have responded several times with those asking to duplicate the matttress, claiming you can come close based on the ILD. And there are posts here where people have asked Mattress.net to duplicate one they saw in a showroom and the result was not what they wanted. One was from member"pea" that wanted a mattress from CleanBedroom and Mattress.net stated they could duplicate it, It arrived and and was firmer than expected, wishing they would have purchased the original mattress from the store. Your response was a lil confusing as you have stated in responses here if the materials are the same it should feel the same yet your response to that post was to suggest that there are many factors that go into the feel and performance, which sounds like you going in circles. The person wanted a duplicate of a mattress she tried at a local store and like my request Mattress.net said they would duplicate it. But they didnt. This is why I think people become more confused here. Your response seems as if the construction is far more complicated than some of your other responses. You then told the person that at least it was too firm rather than too soft as they could try and fix it. Well yes by paying more money. It seemed that the customer wasnt happy and the company didnt provide what they wanted. This again is why Im reluctant to try online dealers without a comfort period and why some are confused reading all the posts. You are the one answering these people and yet when you are asked a question like this you know that some members have had issues with duplicating what they tried in the showroom. An unbiased response I would think based on your experience like the member I mentioned would have included their experience.
Can you tell me how these companies can get their latex from the same manufacturer and get different idl ratings — Latex International has to have some way of labeling their layers and differentiate between firm med and soft
Also given your posts you always suggest people try their mattresses locally, would you trust an online company claiming they can duplicate the same matttress without trying it or without a free return policy?
Thanks again and I do appreciate your efforts on this site
Hi mike7,
I wonder how much of my replies you are really reading and I suppose it’s possible to distrust or misread anything and believe that there is simply nobody left in the world that has any interest in helping others or that because they earn an income from their efforts that nothing they say or share should be trusted. That’s not a “skin” I would want to live in and I would wonder what it must be like to live with that kind of worldview. Each person of course has the freedom to choose their own belief system and what kind of information makes sense to them but i certainly don’t share your approach or beliefs.
In my view … it would be unethical for anyone to spend 16 hours a day for 3 years without any possibility of a reward that could allow their family to survive. This is not a hobby although it is a labor of love. To suggest or imply that a business plan or ability to make money from legitimate efforts to help people … especially when the information provided here is self evident and doesn’t need any “recommendations” and has no requirement to “trust” anything or anyone at all … somehow implies bias or agenda when all the evidence of over 22,000 pages on the site shows something else is somewhat surprising to me. That’s a fairly “jaded” approach IMO.
If you were to look at just the posts from today alone you will find examples of people who have found and purchased mattress from local retailers based on the information provided here and made great purchases because they learned how to choose. None of this required anything but the ability to decide for themselves based on the facts, their own personal value equation, and on knowing “how” to choose instead of following someone’s else’s advice on “what” to choose.
You would also have read that I don’t recommend any mattresses at all for anyone (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) or make final choices for anyone (see post #2 here) … and that I limit my efforts to pointing the members here in the direction of retailers or manufacturers that may have better quality and value available based on their own personal value equation and on knowing how to make more informed choices.
The “official” recommendation of the members of this site is something they have earned and they are “among” the best in the industry … but you can also read in the hundreds of lists throughout the forum about many other manufacturers or retailers I think highly of who are not members here … yet. The “official” recommendation is a way of recognizing the manufacturers and retailers who are able and willing to compete with the best in the country, who support the efforts and time it takes to put a site like this together and maintain it, and have also agreed to provide benefits to the members here as a result of their membership.
Once again you are not reading the replies or taking “snippets” out of context. Mattresses.net has a 60 day return policy on their standard mattresses and all it costs is shipping. Many other online manufacturers have good return policies as well. The exception to most online companies return policies is a custom built mattress that doesn’t use their standard layering and is built to be unique requirements of a specific customer. I have also never said that any mattress (including PLB) can be “duplicated” based on ILD’s alone … as a matter of fact quite the opposite (including in my replies to you).
Again this isn’t the case and they don’t get different ILD ratings if the latex is the same type and comes from the same manufacturer. I’ve already answered this exact same question in a previous reply to you but for some reason you don’t seem to have read it.
That would depend on the specifics of the manufacturer or retailer, the criteria of my personal value equation, my knowledge level, and on my own informed “best judgement”. I know that if a manufacturer was familiar with both mattresses and had compared them that the odds of success would be much higher but I don’t see things in “black and white” or absolute terms as much as you appear to do and I also realize that there is no certainty with anything. I would see it as a question of the risk I was willing to take compared to the potential “rewards” and this too would be part of my personal value equation.
In the end … you can either see the information here for what it is and read the replies and links more carefully than you are or you can simply ignore some or all of it and purchase a mattress using any criteria or method of evaluating a purchase that you believe in. That part is up to you but it certainly won’t change the information that I make freely available to anyone who wants to use their own discernment and can use the information here as a way to help them make more informed choices
What you do with this information or which parts of it you trust or don’t is entirely up to you and it’s here for you to use in whatever way you see fit.
Phoenix
I dont think you are doing anything unethical and Im sure you are doing this with the best intentions. Just to respond to your post
When I mention that Mattress.net doesnt have a return policy you respond seemingly in defense—First of all my mattress would be custom and secondly most people dont think of paying shipping charges both ways as a free return.
Next you post - I have also never said that any mattress (including PLB) can be “duplicated” based on ILD’s alone … as a matter of fact quite the opposite (including in my replies to you).—but you did say
-If you use the same layer thicknesses, the same type of foam made by the same manufacturer, and the same type of cover, then you would have a very close “match”. ILD’s are always in a range (for example blended latex is in a range of about +/- 2)
When you get a request asking about a company or mattress it seems based on your experience you would include those like the one I mentioned where the person purchased a mattress from the same company I was asking about and wished they went with the one at the store even though the company said they could duplicate it. Thats the point I was making that you read these posts and thus gain knowledge as to experience these people have. Yet when I asked you about the company and duplication you didnt mention it. On mattress.net they dont even use Latex International which makes PLB, thus given your post how can they duplicate it? This is why I say it gets confusing with your posts.
When I ask you if you would buy a mattress not tested in person your response is that it would depend on the manufacturer based on knowledge. Well thats why people are here trying to learn. But your risk and rewards statement doesnt make sense when the reward is saving dollars and they arent happy with a mattress. Im trying to find the knowledge to allow me to purchase online but Im having to read the posts of those with experience seems to be the best way.
You seem to be taking this in a personal way. Im simply an outsider reading the posts and those are observations nothing more. I think you provide a great forum and its helped people make decisions.