Choice #1:
2 inch 4 lb (ILD12).
2 inch 1.8 lb polyurethane foam (ILD 20).
6 inch 2.0 lb polyurethane foam (ILD 36).
Choice 2:
The Nolah 12 inch mattress (not the 10 inch).
Choice 3:
The Silk and Snow mattress.
I was able to get the ILD of the layers on this layer one: ILD 9-11 layer two: ILD 2-21 and layer three: ILD 36.
Given the aforementioned information would you have an idea as how to rank these by durability and my BMI which is, according to a link you provided, about 27. I’m also concerned with bottoming out or having my rear area sink overly deep. I’m thinking that the Nolah would be my first likely choice and the Silk and Snow would be my last choice of the three.
I have done a lot of mattress testing locally. I think all of the mattress store workers know my name…LOL! I’m starting to feel like I’m stalking you and the poor salespeople at the mattress stores. The good thing is that everyone has been really nice about it.
Thank you so much. I hope I’m heading in the right direction.
This type of “Ranking” can do more harm than good as this doesn’t tell you how pressure relieving the comfort layer is for you or how well the support layers keep you in alignment which depends more on the type of materials used and how your own body weight and shape and sleeping positions interacts with a mattress and no one can predict what type of mattress or softness you might do best with via an online forum, as there are entirely too many personal variables involved and you are looking at different designs and material type in the comfort layer … I’d also keep in mind that at your BMI you do not need added thickness. With a 12" mattress … the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a less thick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will “act” softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) … then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers to compensate.
You are narrowing things down and “heading in the right direction” considering your budget but it is only you that can decide which one of the options you mentioned might do best for you.
I know you are looking for a simple answer but it all comes to your personal preferences and how well any of the mattresses you are considering match your comfort/support needs. It’s also important to know that durability is relative to the person that sleeps on a mattress … in practical terms, a mattress will only last as long as it maintains the support, pressure relief, and personal preferences that allows someone to sleep well on a mattress. Foam softening or other changes in mattress materials or components may have different effects on different people and a mattress that has softened or changed to the degree that it no longer provides the support, pressure relief. or personal preferences for one person may still be fine for someone else. It’s usually not the final breakdown of materials that lead to the need to replace a mattress but the gradual loss of comfort and support that finally “crosses” a line and at some point, is no longer suitable for that person to sleep on. Each person’s “line” can be very different.
In terms of durability along with the density of the foams here is also a summary of some other factors you may wish to keep in mind:
Foam Formulation: While density is the single biggest factor in durability … other chemicals or ingredients added to a foam can also affect durability. … “filler materials” that are added to a foam (“sand” or other particles including “gel” particles) can lower durability of the base foam they are added to and chemicals such as plasticizers or the presence or absence of antioxidants will affect the durability of a foam. Nolah’s 2" of 2.75lbs poly would be more durable than 4lbs. midrange density memory foam in the other two mattresses you are considering.
The person on the mattress: Heavier people or people with heavier “areas” or who are more “active” on a mattress will wear out materials faster than lighter, more evenly proportioned, or less active people so higher density foams than just the “minimum” guidelines can be more important.
Layer Position within the mattress: It is almost always the upper layers of a mattress are subject to more mechanical compression which stresses the foam more and are most prone to softening and breakdown which is why it’s so important to make sure they include higher quality materials. For example, a 1.8 lb polyfoam used in the top layers will not be as durable as a 1.8 lb foam used in the deeper support layers of a mattress because it is subject to more frequent and deeper compression.
Softness/Firmness of the layers within the mattress… firmer foam is more durable than softer foam. because they are subject to more mechanical compression which stresses the foam more. If everything else was equal … a 1.8 lb polyfoam that was 15 ILD would be less durable than a 1.8 lb polyfoam with a 28 ILD rating.
Layer Thickness: Thicker layers of lower quality foams will have a bigger effect on the durability and longevity of a mattress if they soften than thinner layers that are mixed in with higher quality foam.
There are other more “arcane” factors that can affect the durability of a foam but the most important part of testing a mattress is pressure relief and spinal alignment.
I hope that the above-added information helps your final decision.
“This type of “Ranking” can do more harm than good as this doesn’t tell you how pressure relieving the comfort layer is for you or how well the support layers keep you in alignment which depends more on the type of materials used and how your own body weight and shape and sleeping positions interacts with a mattress and no one can predict what type of mattress or softness you might do best with via an online forum, as there are entirely too many personal variables involved and you are looking at different designs and material type in the comfort layer … I’d also keep in mind that at your BMI you do not need added thickness. With a 12” mattress … the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a less thick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will “act” softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) … then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers…"
You make a great point here. Unfortunately, I had to talk with my hematologist about my BMI today. That wasn’t fun. I didn’t think about the thickness of the mattress with regards to my BMI. I’ve tried a few thick mattress that always left me in a sink hole. I thought it was due to a lack of density in the foam (some used low density foam). However, you’ve made it clear that I need to consider how thick the mattress is along with the density of the foams used.
I’m leaning towards the Nolah 10 inch mattress. They offer a fair trial period. It’s a relief that I may not have to purchase the 12 inch as it costs a lot more. I’m still considering the other mattresses I’ve mentioned. I’ve even thought about Nest Bedding Love and Sleep Mattress due to the certifications it has. I’m going to have to give this some serious thought.
I’m not going to jump in immediately. I will reread everything you wrote, as the guidelines you’ve given me are very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to always answer my questions. I’m also grateful that you’ve given me so much in-depth information regarding sleep position, BMI, mattress layers and so forth. You probably know by now that I will keep you posted. I’m always disappointed when someone says they’ll come back and give information regarding the mattress they order and then never come back.
You are welcome! I am glad that you are gaining more clarity.
It makes a lot of sense to step back for a while and “not jump in immediately” as you’d need some time to reassess things with any new relevant data that enters your awareness. You probably know by now much more than many typical sales people….and based upon your comments you have a general idea of the types of components you need to look for in your new mattress, so I’d also trust this as you move along.
I’ll look forward to learning about your progress and any other questions you might have.
Hello. I’ve spent part of the holiday looking at mattresses on-line. I wanted more options with better specs than the SS and one other mattress I discussed. I’m still considering the Nolah 10 inch. Nest bedding caught my attention. I think I give up on not naming the mattress, as it’s not really helpful to your readers. I am considering the Love and Sleep and the Signature Select.
Love & Sleep Mattress
3 inches 2.8 Energex foam (which is good).
I inch of Smartflow foam.
6 inches of 1.8 lb polyurethane foam.
Overall it looks decent. I like the certifications it has. There is no way for me to know if alignment would be good. I would go with the medium. The specs indicate that it may be durable.
While both beds you listed would be good quality/value for your BMI, I’d keep in mind that 4" of memory foam will not feel the same over the entire course of the night because of memory foam’s temperature sensitivity, which of course is also dependent on body and external temperature, humidity, and time spent on the foam. All memory foams, even the ones that are firmer than others (they range from an ILD of about 8 to about 18 although ILD is not that significant with memory foam), are considered to be soft foams and the biggest variable is how long it takes for them to get soft. This is why memory foam cannot be used as a support material in a mattress (it’s only used in the top layers) and there is always a different material used under the memory foam to support the weight of the body. Memory foam is a slow responding pressure relieving material.
Also while 12.5" thick mattress is not necessary unless you like a tall setup you can read more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. Regardless of how thick or thin a mattress may be, the most important part of the “value” of a mattress is how suitable it is “as a whole” for your particular body type, sleeping positions, and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) regardless of how thick it may be. There is certainly no reason that at your weight you would “need” more thickness, but you may still “prefer” a mattress that is thicker or thinner depending on the design and layer arrangement. I’d make sure to call Nest Bedding and ask them to assist you to ensure the best chance of having a good firmness fit. They are extremely helpful and consumer oriented and like all the members of the site I think very highly of.
Thanks for your holiday wishes… I’ve had a very enjoyable time, I hope you did too
I’m researching and taking the time to be careful.
I’m still not clear on the durability of 4 inches of 4 lb memory foam used as the top 4 inches of a mattress. I thought that any mattress brand (there are quite a few like this) with four inches of 4 lb memory foam might be considered slightly lower quality or less durable. Can you clarify? Sorry.
Glad to hear that you are taking your time to make an informed decision.
For a BMI less than 30 … 4" of 4lbs memory foam would meet the quality/durability guidelines listed in the article here. As all components you listed are good for your BMI I’d focus now on mattress suitability… support/comfort .
I’m back. I’ve tried the Nolah which began to sleep unevenly right before the return date. It was nice for the first 2 months, but quickly began to change for the worse. I’ve also tried the Silk & Snow. I would say the Silk & Snow was by far one of the most comfortable mattresses I’ve tried. Unfortunately, it started to tank (sleep very unevenly) after one month. I’m now sleeping on a Sleep to Live. My friend got one and loved it. Her mattress is still going strong at 10 months. I purchased the same mattress and loved the comfort for 2 whole weeks. It now has a valley and a hill, so it’s going back. It seems that Sleep to Live has a quality control issue going on.
I"m interested in the Casper. I’ve contacted them on-line to get their specs, but they told me it’s a and I’m not kidding…“secret.” They won’t budge and I couldn’t even confirm the specs you have here from a few years ago. Do you have an opinion on the original Casper?
I’ve also looked at the specs for a Capitol Bedding mattress. The specs are as follows:
1 inch of 1.6 lb polyurethane.
3/8th of 1.8 lb polyurethane.
Liner.
1.5 inches of 1.8 lb polyurethane foam.
Coils (I’m sorry I forgot what type).
1 inch of 2.5 base foam.
Could you give me your thoughts about durability regarding the Casper Original and the Capitol Bedding mattress.
In case you’re wondering how I’ve made it all these years. I’ve used an air mattress with a good topper. It’s not the best, but better than many mattresses I’ve tried.
That is too bad regarding the Nolah. Just a couple of other quick comments.
Casper Mattress telling you its a …“secret” that is just priceless. I know they have also changed their original mattress, as it no longer has the top 1" of latex in it. This has been confirmed to me a number of times. Casper now acts like Simmons/Sealy/Serta/Tempur do, less transparency…they know better.
Regarding the Capitol Mattress. Which of the layers are part of the “quilt” and which layers are just comfort layers? Regardless of the specific answers, one should be cautious of this mattress as the durability of the comfort layers will be a problem which we discuss in our durability guidelines…how long a mattress will lastarticle.
I couldn’t believe it when the Casper representative told me the density of the foams was a “secret.” I get that response, as you mentioned, from Sealy, Serta and so on.
Here are the specs for the Capitol Bedding Mattress:
Quilting:
1 inch of high density foam. The actual density is not given.
1 inch of 1.8 lb polyurethane foam.
Thanks for the spec information on the Capitol. Noted on the latex not working. You saw my notes on the comfort layers breaking down. The Hickory coil units are good quality, big company, but coil products are high quality.
Another fabricator, IBS (Innovative Bedding Solutions), in Buena Vista, CA makes the majority of the Tuft and Needle mattresses, I think they ship them all to Amazon Fulfillment centers. T&N may have a secondary source also, but the majority are made by IBS.
To clarify: You believe the Capitol Bedding mattress may not hold up due to the 1.8 lb polyurethane foam in top layer of mattress. If so, why do so many bed in a box mattresses use 1.8 lb polyurethane as a base for their mattresses? Do you find that 1.8 lb polyurethane foam doesn’t hold up over time. Can you tell me what company makes the Capitol Bedding Hickory Coil units?
Lots of questions, as usual!!
Thanks for the information regarding who makes the Tuft & Needle.
Hi im new to the forum and I’m not sure where or how to post a new topic but I was wondering if there is anywhere to purchase slow response latex in 2019? I see that a lot of manufacturers have discontinued these types of products for a variety of reasons(such as people either wanted memory foam or latex) so just wondering if there is anywhere to purchase slow response latex layers or toppers in 2019?
Thanks for the message. Using 1.8lb poly foam as a support core goes through a different process of wear and tear, but the comfort layers closest to the body receive the most pressure and breakdown.
The Capitol Mattress is most likely a good mattress and it may last a long time for you, and what you need. I am just cautious with using practically 6inches of polyfoam in the comfort layers (and quilt)
I think this foundational article about polyfoam comfort layers better explains what I am cautious about.
The springs are made at Hickory Springs, a division of HSM Solutions. They are a huge company, very good reputation, high-quality springs.
I have not thought about the slow recovery latex. For the most part, only three companies made it in any volume. Talalay Global, Radium and Latexco…I sm sure some of the Asian manufacturers could process this foam.
I know Brookly Bedding used to sell a lot of these toppers and some mattresses to Overstock.com, but I am not seeing anyone promoting this product either.
It was not a “great product” felt kind of neat, when you touched it, but it really didnt feel that great as a comfort layer. A couple of big brands used it for a while, but it died down over time.
It’s not listed on the product page on Talalay global anymore on Talalay mattress corespage.
Maybe someone else has some more info on this, I will check with the Talalay people to see if it’s being sold anymore. You can also ask Ken at Arizona Premium, I know they sold it in the past, he would know if anyone is producing it anymore.
Thank you sensei. I found a Nuform topper on overstock but I’m not sure if it’s slow response and they have not responded to my question yet regarding that. Charles p. Rogers has a 2 sided topper that they say one side is slow response but when I called them they weren’t very knowledgeable on any of the specs other than its from latexco + it’s way overpriced. The search continues…
I know when Brooklyn Bedding first started using the “Nuform” name, they used this latex, but I think they are using the name with different memory foam. It would say so very clearly if it was latex.
Speaking of the dual-sided topper, it reminded me that Luma Sleep, a Mattress Expert member introduced a 3" Dal Sided Talalay / Memory foam topper. It’s called Sweet Dreams Hybrid Topper, and it’s on sale for $297 for a queen. Check it out, if you are interested.
I will admit that I just got a Sleep to Live and love it. It’s the most comfortable mattress I have ever slept on. Unfortunately, around day 30 it really started to sink. When I wake up, I’m sunk way in and the other side is up, so if I try to move over I’m on a slant. I really want to keep it, but I’m concerned that eventually sink will stay. I wish I knew the density of the foam they use. I will likely have to return it and I don’t want to. I just can’t justify the price, if it breaks down quickly. Have you heard anything regarding the Sleep To Live mattresses? Oh, also it doesn’t irritate my chemical sensitivities and that was a great and happy shock. Please let me know what you know about the Sleep to Live mattress from Art Van. Thank you!!
The Nuform does say that it’s latex but doesn’t say if it’s slow response & they still haven’t responded to this question. I have found a few companies that sell dual sided(1side latex & 1side memoryfoam) layers or toppers but I just want slow response latex to go over my regular talalay/ Dunlop layers. I found aireloom uses what they call Luxus latex which is slow response but it’s only 1 inch and found I think in only 1 of their mattresses, it’s not sold separately and I do find their mattresses a little overpriced IMO.
Hello!