I was hoping that you could help me with an issue that I am having with my latex mattress. I became aware of this forum last year and followed your outstanding advice to construct the following mattress:
-Support Layer: 6 inches of #32 ILD natural talalay latex
-Comfort Layer: 4 inches of #24 ILD natural talalay latex
Not sure of the quilting, an organic ticking and chemical free without fire retardants.
I am an average size man 5’10" and 175 pounds with multiple allergies. I chose a manufacturer in the southern Florida area that you recommended; they are fantastic and very accommodating. The construction of this mattress was right on with regards to support. However the comfort and pressure relief was somewhat questionable in the shoulder area. Having come from memory foam, which nearly destroyed my health, the mattress was certainly not plush.
The manufacturer suggested a pillow top; against your advice I agreed. 2 inches of #19 ILD talalay latex were combined with another agent(natural/synthetic…??) In an attempt to provide a more pressure relieving mattress.
During the first two weeks, I felt that the mattress was too soft. It did not seem to provide the support that I needed. The pressure relief was there. My body then adapted to the configuration. The mattress felt very good for two months. It had a very nice buoyant quality.
The characteristics of the mattress have completely changed over the past month. It feels very firm and the pressure relieving qualities have been lost. My wife and I are both experiencing in our shoulders and sides. I assume that the non-latex material that was added to the pillow top is either compressed or broken down resulting in less comfort.
I will either need to reconstruct or build a new mattress. I am very familiar with your recommendations on this site. I was hoping that you could provide me with some very specific guidelines taking into account that I have multiple allergies and am looking for maximal comfort and pressure relief. I can go to this manufacturer and specify exactly what I want. These would be my questions:
would blended latex provide better pressure relief than natural latex for the comfort layer?
I would assume you would advise eliminating the pillow top?
please specify the material and pattern for the quilting.
please specify the material and construction for the ticking.
I would appreciate if you could be very specific with your guidelines; it seems that it’s best to have information to direct the manufacturer to produce the product that is best suited for me. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
Robert
There are so many variables and unknowns that unfortunately there is no formula or “theory at a distance” that someone can use to know which mattress or design will work best for anyone else. Only your own personal experience can know this. Nobody else can feel what you feel on a mattress (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) so it’s not possible for anyone (including me) to make specific suggestions or recommendations for someone else.
[quote]The manufacturer suggested a pillow top; against your advice I agreed. 2 inches of #19 ILD talalay latex were combined with another agent(natural/synthetic…??) In an attempt to provide a more pressure relieving mattress.
The manufacturer suggested a pillow top; against your advice I agreed. 2 inches of #19 ILD talalay latex were combined with another agent(natural/synthetic…??) In an attempt to provide a more pressure relieving mattress.
During the first two weeks, I felt that the mattress was too soft. It did not seem to provide the support that I needed. The pressure relief was there. My body then adapted to the configuration. The mattress felt very good for two months. It had a very nice buoyant quality.
The characteristics of the mattress have completely changed over the past month. It feels very firm and the pressure relieving qualities have been lost. My wife and I are both experiencing in our shoulders and sides. I assume that the non-latex material that was added to the pillow top is either compressed or broken down resulting in less comfort.[/quote]
I’m not sure what the reason is for the change over the last two months (I would need more details about the topper to guess) but a 2" topper of a little bit softer latex than you had would be “in the range” of what would normally be successful “on average”. You can see the topper guidelines I use in post #8 here and in post #2 here.
It may also be worthwhile checking some of the other suggestions in post #2 here which may also account for some of the changes … particularly if you have a mattress pad or a quilted cover in the mattress which may be compressing slightly and adding to the overall firmness of the mattress. In general foams will soften over time (a little faster during the break in period and then more slowly after that) and fibers will become firmer as they compact and compress.
This would depend more on the ILD and type of latex than on the blend. If you are referring to Talalay then if the ILD’s are the same then blended may be a little bit more pressure relieving than 100% natural but the difference in a single layer would be small (many people wouldn’t notice if the ILD’s were the same) and can easily be compensated by different ILD’s. Dunlop tends to feel firmer than both because it is a denser material that gets firmer more quickly as you compress it more deeply but this can also be compensated for by changing the ILD.
The problem with most pillowtops is not the pillowtop itself but the type of material that is in it. A pillowtop mattress that uses lower quality less durable materials (which is the norm with most mainstream mattresses) can soften and impress fairly quickly which can lead to the loss of comfort and/or support but I don’t see any issues with a pillowtop that uses high quality durable materials if it’s a good match for someone in terms of PPP. The recommendations are about the quality/durability of the materials in a pillowtop … not about mattresses that use a pillowtop style of construction.
I wish it was possible to be specific but unfortunately as I mentioned there is no formula or theory that someone can use to give specific recommendations to someone else. Each person is unique with different needs and preferences. My goal is to help with “how” to choose not with the specifics of “what” to choose but hopefully the links to some of the guidelines and suggestions will be helpful.
Thank you for your prompt response. I can appreciate the fact that you cannot give specifics since the sleeping experience on a mattress is purely subjective. The recommendations that you provide on this site are outstanding; I have used them to my benefit.
I am going to remove the pillow top and redesign this mattress. I will ask the manufacturer’s opinion about a blended Talalay latex, as opposed to natural, for the comfort layer. I will also investigate whether alternative quilting and ticking options are available that could possibly produce maximal pressure relief. My shoulders seem very sensitive to the upward tensile strength that the compressed latex exerts on them in the sleeping position.
Maintaining the following construction:
-Support Layer: 6 inches of #32 ILD natural talalay latex
-Comfort Layer: 4 inches of #24 ILD natural talalay latex
I was considering putting an additional 2 inches of a softer ILD latex on top of the # 24 ILD. I believe that I have to start with 2 inches since the manufacturer acquires the latex as 2 inch pieces. I am somewhat apprehensive about doing this since I don’t want to lose the excellent postural support that the mattress currently provides. I have seen the dramatic effect that 2 inches of latex can yield.
Perhaps you can answer this question. As a general rule, what ILD would I start with, and how low of an ILD could I use to achieve maximum pressure relief without compromising support?
I’m not quite clear on the specifics of your mattress design and what you’ve tried.
If I understand you correctly … you originally ordered a mattress with 6" of 32 ILD Talalay and a 4" comfort layer of 24 ILD Talalay. This sounds to me like it was blended Talalay latex because the ILD’s you specified are firmness ratings for blended Talalay not 100% natural Talalay. 100% natural Talalay comes in firmness ratings from N1 to N5 (see here for Latex International’s firmness ratings) and you can see the ILD range for each of them here. Latex International calls it’s blended Talalay “natural”
It would also be helpful if you could let me know the specifics of your cover. Is it a quilted cover or is it an unquilted stretch knit cover? Does it have a zipper that allows you to access the latex layers?
If I also understand correctly … this mattress was too firm (which would be unusual for someone of your body weight with 4" of 24 ILD Talalay on a medium firmness support core) so you added an additional layer of 2" of 19 ILD Talalay (probably also blended Talalay) with some type of additional material as well. Was this a topper that was added to the top of the mattress or was it a pillowtop that was actually sewn to the mattress? Could you provide additional details about the other materials as well?
This sounds very similar to the previous design that didn’t work for you (oir at least didn’t work over the longer term). Is the only difference that it doesn’t have the additional material that was in the first topper?
It would be helpful if you could clarify some of the missing information so I can have a better sense of what may be happening.
It’s not unusual at all that some people prefer a different type of less resilient material as a top layer over latex (either in the quilting, as a topper, or as a thin layer in the mattress) which can dampen the higher resiliency of the latex. This could be either natural fiber like wool, a polyfoam layer, a memory foam layer, ultra soft latex, or a layer of shredded latex, all of which can create a more “relaxed” sleeping surface and lower the resilience and surface tension of sleeping directly on latex.
If you can fill in some of the missing information it may be helpful in providing some suggestions.