Latex guidance

I’ve been spending some time (and will spend much more!) poking around the site and forums here - and can’t tell you how much I appreciate all the info and discussion! I have a much better, though still limited, understanding of this whole mattress thing. Incredible amount of information! Having said that, I’d still appreciate a little help. :slight_smile:

We’ve been sleeping on a Sealy Posturepedic Reserve Tressel for the last 6-7 years. We bought this mattress because we knew that pillowtop mattresses break down so easily. We thought we’d get a mattress that was a little firmer than we thought we’d want and then we’d add a topper that we could easily swap out as it either broke down or our needs changed. We tried sleeping on just the mattress for a while, and decided we definitely needed something to make it more comfortable. That’s where we had a problem. My partner has multiple sclerosis, and heat can be a real problem for people with MS. We quickly found that most any toppers we bought locally and put on the bed were immediately too hot for her. We ended up getting the 2" Blueflex Gel Memory Foam topper that I found online. It wasn’t perfect, but it was tolerable as far as heat retention.

Now, a few years later (and older!), we’ve realized that we’ve been suffering through bad sleep for some time now. We are in our mid-40s, both about 5’8" and 160lbs and both side sleepers. I believe (and I could be wrong!) the topper we have just compresses and we “bottom out” onto the mattress below, which is too firm. Neither of us feel aligned when laying either on our backs or sides. I’ve got a lot of pain in my hip and shoulder and can’t stay in one position for long at all, and I wake up every time I have to change positions. She has lots of leg pain due to MS, some back and some shoulder pain.

Which brought me here. We finally decided ENOUGH and I started researching where to go from here. I don’t believe the mattress itself is in bad shape - and wonder if a latex topper would offer enough transition. Was thinking in the case of having such a firm (in my mind) base, that maybe a 3" topper would be the best shot at this. I guess I’m looking for any guidance I can find. It seems silly to get rid of a perfectly good mattress if we can make it work. I’m curious to know how firm our mattress (comparably speaking) is, but it’s several years old now and I’ve not been able to find any info. Regardless, I suspect it’s too firm for us, so getting by with just a topper may be a long shot. I’d hate to spend $300-600 on a topper and then realize that we actually need a full mattress.

I’m also curious to know more about the blueflex gel memory foam topper we’ve been using - I keep saying that I think it’s all “squish” - but I’d be curious to know where it may compare (though distantly) to latex foam ILDs. I realize the two materials are different and not necessarily comparable in that sense.

It may also come down to each of us preferring a different feel, and if so, that will also mean going with a whole mattress replacement, with some split layers. That should be fun to figure out… :slight_smile:

I’d be happy for any suggestions or comments to help me sort out what we need. The older I get, the more I realize how important a decision it is! And to think, I used to think nothing of sleeping on the ground. Getting old…

Thanks!

Hi distracted12,

If you haven’t read it already … the first place I would start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information and step by step process and guidelines that can help you with “how” to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Many of your questions will be answered there but of course for any that aren’t you are always welcome to post them on the forum :slight_smile:

I can also make some comments here that may be helpful.

Non pillowtop mattresses can break down very quickly as well and this has more to do with the amount or thickness of lower quality materials in the comfort layers than the design of the mattress. A pillowtop mattress that uses high quality materials will be more durable than a tight top that uses thicker layers of lower quality materials. One of the “risks” of buying a mattress/topper combination that you haven’t tested in person for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) is that it can be almost as difficult to choose a topper that is a good “match” for a particular person on a specific mattress as it can be to choose a new mattress that doesn’t need a topper and already has a suitable design and uses higher quality and more durable materials in the comfort layers.

Gel memory foams can be “somwhat helpful” in terms of sleeping temperature but the benefits of gel tend to be partial or temporary and once temperatures have equalized then the memory foam itself is still a more insulating material than other types of foam. There is more about gel memory foams in post #2 here and the posts it links to and there is also more about the many variables that can affect sleeping temperature relative to each person as well (outside of just the type of foam in a mattress or topper) in post #2 here.

The type, thickness and softness of a topper can all have a significant effect on how it feels and performs on a particular mattress and if a topper is both thinner and softer then you can “go through” the topper more and “feel” more of the firmness of the foam layers underneath it. In some cases a 2" topper may be too thin and the transition between the topper and the mattress may be too sudden and a 3" version of the same topper may work very well. This may also become more noticeable as the topper softens with use.

If your mattress is still in good condition and has no sagging or soft spots then a topper can be an effective solution to add additional pressure relief or softness but after 6 or 7 years the odds are also quite high that with only a 2" topper where you would also be compressing the materials under the topper more than you would if the topper was thicker that the materials in the comfort layers of your mattress may have also developed some soft spots or sagging as well (visible or otherwise) and if this is the case then a topper would be a less effective solution because a topper will tend to “follow” the soft spots in a mattress. You could test this by putting a heavy object on different parts of your mattress (including where you tend to sleep and where you don’t) to see if there is a noticeable difference in how far it sinks in with different parts of your mattress. I would also be aware that there is no “standard” definition for firmness ratings and different manufacturers will rate their mattresses differently than others. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that is “much too firm” for one person can feel “much to soft” for someone else. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to (see post #15 here). In the end … this can be very subjective and how firm a mattress (or mattress/topper combination) feels to you will be much more important than how a manufacturer “rates” their mattress or someone else’s perceptions.

Latex and memory foam are very different materials and have such a very different response to temperature and pressure and there are so many factors and “specs” involved that affect the firmness or softness of a material (see post #4 here) and so many different versions of each material that there really isn’t a meaningful way to compare latex to memory foam. There is more about the differences between memory foam vs latex in post #2 here.

The most important factor in the quality of a memory foam material and it’s durability relative to other versions of the same material is its density. I didn’t see any reference to the density of the blueflex topper but some calculations based on volume and weight appear to indicate that it’s in the 3 lb range which means that it would also be less durable than higher quality memory foam toppers and it may have also developed some soft spots under the heavier parts of your body as well.

It’s not uncommon that a couple has “needs” for pressure relief and support or have different “preferences” as well (which is about “feel”). The first part of post #2 here has more information about some of the ways that can accommodate a couple with different needs and preferences. You could even use a different topper on each side of your mattress.

Unfortunately … you aren’t alone in the effects of “aging” and almost everyone will find that their needs and preferences will change significantly as they get older. Of course bragging about the additional “wisdom” that age provides is a good way to convince ourselves (and our kids) that the aging process and slow deterioration of our bodies is “worth it” :slight_smile:

If you have tested your mattress and if you decide that it’s a worthwhile option then post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to should be helpful in choosing a topper (or toppers) that is the most suitable choice. I would also keep in mind that the return or exchange options that are available from a manufacturer or retailer you are considering can also reduce the risk of making a topper choice that is “less than ideal”.

Phoenix

Phoenix -

Thanks so much for your reply. I’d read a good bit of the tutorial and general mattress information - but find myself going back and rereading parts as I get more understanding. Mattresses can be quite complex! Between individual needs and how very small changes in the layers can affect the feel…sheesh. Talk about pressure! (no pun intended)

After reading your reply, I decided maybe I should double check that our mattress really was in good enough shape that would be worth using for a couple more years. I guess I had it in my head that the mattress was maybe only 6yo, and so should be in decent enough shape. I was a bit surprised once I stripped off everything. Remove sheets, topper and case, waterproof mattress protector, padded mattress cover…I’m sure there’s a mattress in here somewhere…and there it was. And it was with sag. :blink: I figure if I can SEE the sag - it’s time to move on.

So that ended the topper search. And now we’re on to the mattress search. The problem we’re having, though I believe we’ll overcome, is that we don’t have many places around that we can lay on an all latex mattress - so we’ll have to buy online without trying it out. We’re in the Lexington, Ky area - so did find the pure Latex Bliss mattress to lay on. I may also check the Louisville area to see if there is anyplace around there we can try latex beds. I also came across your post re the different layers in the PLB beds, which I’ll probably take with me next time. I’d like to get a little better feel for how the differences in layers feel. Of course, I will also focus on retailers who offer exchanges/returns - which will make a huge difference in our willingness to try sight unseen.

One thing I’m confused about - and I’ll be poking around the forum more to see what I can find - is how the top 1-1.5" of wool or polyfoam (or whatever the case is attached to) affects the feel of the mattress. Along with the differences in a cotton vs bamboo case. I’m sure the reason I’m focused on this is to defer thinking about what firmness we need. :slight_smile: Trying to figure out if that top layer would make a softer latex comfort layer feel firmer or not. Also have some concern on whether the wool layer will add enough warmth to make it uncomfortable for someone who is really sensitive to heat. I do know that wool is a good insulator and wicking material, so think it will probably be ok.

I appreciate the work you’ve put into gathering all this information - but also the work you’ve done in talking to retailers and businesses to get a feel for who knows what they are talking about and stands by their products. That’s very helpful for those of us who don’t replace our mattresses every month. :wink:

Hi distracted12,

I would tend to agree with this.

Some of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Lexington area are listed in post #3 here and the Louisville list is in post #3 here (with some overlap).

I would keep in mind that the “comfort specs” of a mattress (such as ILD) are not important when you are testing a mattress locally because your own testing will tell you much more about the feel and performance of a mattress and whether it is a suitable choice in terms of PPP than the comfort specs. Of course knowing the specs can give you some reference points if you are considering an online choice that uses similar materials.

There is more about the effects of quilting layers in general post #12 here and about wool quilting in post #6 here.

Wool is one of the best temperature regulating materials in both directions (which is why it’s used in desert climates as well as arctic climates) and can help with people that sleep too cold as well as those that sleep too hot. There is also more about the many variables that can affect sleeping temperature in post #2 here.

There is more about the differences between cotton and bamboo in post #7 here and post #11 here which would apply to mattress covers as well as sheets but again it will come down to which one you prefer.

I’m glad the information here could help … and thanks for the kind words :slight_smile:

Phoenix