Latex: How Many Layers? How Deep?

I was out of town and went to a natural mattress store on two days (two different salesmen) to try out some all latex mattresses. I have read a bunch of information on this site and the salesmen were generally helpful and knowledgeable, but also said a few things I question.

While looking at the Posh+ Lavish custom mattress - 6" base below two 2" layers - I asked each why the 6" base layer? Both said, in different ways, that they felt a 6" base layer was critically important. That they have sold 3"/3"/3" latex mattresses from (several brands, some they still carry) and they just don’t work out as well from a customer satisfaction standpoint.

Looking at trusted members and other websites, firms sell latex mattresses in many thicknesses (9, 10, 11, 12" of latex) and in many layer configurations (3/3/3, 6/4, 6/2/2, 6/2/3, 3/3/3/3, 6/3/3 and so on. Not sure I have seen a 6/3). The Posh+ Lavish was 6/2/2.

Is there any importance to a 6" (presumably Dunlop) base layer as opposed to two 3" base layers? Do they end up with better customer satisfaction? Are 3/3/3 more problematic as the salesman said?

Are there any layer configurations that work best, or ones to avoid?

@Sleep_EZ
@Arizona_Premium
@SuiteSleep

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Well……the salesman does have a vested interest, but he might be right.

I was underwhelmed by P and L. The Dunlop base felt hard, but I did like the Talalay topper.

John

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None of the pre-built P+L mattresses did anything for me. The one side of the custom was great, at least showroom time great. 6 inch firm Dunlop, 2 inch very soft biothane (I think he said), and 2 inch medium talaly.

The other side was setup to be firm; I forget details.

Don,

Good to hear!

Talalay felt superior to Dunlop, but I didnt know which firmnesses they were.

John

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The 6 + 3 option is our #1 selling design. #1 Selling Latex Mattress- Adjustable Ultra Plush, Latex Mattresses-Talalay and Dunlop, All Products, A solid 6" base is a little more durable than 2 3" stacked plus its true to the Firmness rating since 3" pieces are cut from the 6" core and you lose a little of the actual firmness when it gets cut.

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Thanks. Maybe some other manufacturers/retailers will chime in.

Hi Don,
We’ve been in the “all latex” mattress business for 25 years and we have always offered a 6" base with either 2" or 3" latex on top. The reason a 6" is best on the base is consistency. When you offer 3+3+3, the densities of each layer can vary. Because latex is a natural product, there is a range of ILD within each firmness category. Virtually all organic latex is molded in 6" thicknesses. For example a 3" firm could be cut from a 6", 85D/36 ILD, but each 3" piece can be within a range depending on whether the 3" slice is from the top-side or the bottom-side of a 6 core. The 3/3/3 model was introduced to simplify the distribution process for the manufacturer, not to offer a superior mattress. With fewer pieces to stock and interchangeable layers, customers can change around layers to hopefully get a feel that works.

What distinguishes a good mattress from a great mattress, is similar to a good restaurant and great restaurant - quality of ingredients, consistency, and service. The base layer is your support layer, and the best support begins with a solid Firm or Medium Firm base. The top layers are the comfort layers - softer Talalay is great for shoulder pressure point relief and side sleepers - a soft Dunlop top layer may be better for heavier humans.

Good luck on your sleep journey!

Angela Owen
Sleep Diva | Suite Sleep

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When you say all organic latex is molded in 6" thicknesses, do you mean Dunlop process latex? My understanding was Talalay process latex has greater consistency of density and ILD, and generally is not organic, though is natural.

Is a 3" Talalay layer cut from a 6" piece or is it molded in 3" layers?

Hi Don,
Yes all organic latex is molded in 6" thickness and it is indeed dunlop. The Talalay is more consistent and also a spongier end product. The process for Talalay flash freezes the liquid latex mixture and then baked at high heat quickly. This yields a different feel, but cannot be certified organic. Talalay is molded in 6" thicknesses as well, but each piece is more consistent when slit into 2, 3" pieces.

I hope that helps and feel free to reach out if you have more questions.

Best,
Angela Owen | Suite Sleep

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@SuiteSleep
Dear Angela,
You provide some information that is at least debatable, while others are definitely wrong (e.g., “Yes, all organic latex is molded in 6” thickness and it is indeed Dunlop").
I’m happy to help.

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Thank you. I clicked on your profile and you have quite the background!

I recently visited a manufacturer and laid on a bed that was all Vita Talalay with a 2" layer, 6" core, 2" layer and a separate 2 inch topper - and it felt good. So that makes a second bed with essentially 6/2/2 that felt good.

My only concerns would be that a 2" topper would wear quickly (6’3, 200 lbs, side sleeper) and that it will also wear the 2" layer underneath quickly, though the bed could be flipped.

Any thoughts on the life of the 2" topper and whether the 2" layer underneath would be negatively impacted? I can get the bed in either a taped or zippered setup; the maker says taped holds together better and the zippers expand in time so not as good a fit.

Hi Jens,
Indeed, I did simplify my response and didn’t do my usual deep dive on possibilities. I know that there have been manufacturers that mold organic in 3” thicknesses. However, Coco Latex in India had it and their plant burned down, so maybe they are back online now. EcoLatex in Sri Lanaka also offered 3” molded latex as well, but I feel that availability is quite limited. Finally, continuous pour latex can also be in various thicknesses - mostly 2” or less, but it is almost exclusively blended or synthetic. If there are other producers in the world that make up a significant market here in the US, please do let me know. I also would like to make sure that we are giving out correct information.

Best,
Angela

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Hey Don,
Thank you for checking us out. The 6/2/2 is a great combo and a tried and true option. The soft 2” will always break down faster than a 6” firm core which is why we believe in zippered covers. If you know how to make a zippered cover correctly, they won’t suffer the expansion you mention. We were one of the first to bring in zippered covers from Europe almost 25 years ago, and feel that we’ve helped perfect the product industry-wide.

Once the 2” layer needs replacing (depending on weight and wear and climate) you can unzip and replace it. If the manufacturer you are looking to buy from is pushing for a sealed mattress, it’s typically because they are most comfortable making that option.

Best,
Angela Owen | Suite Sleep

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Dear Angela,

Thanks for your kind reply. I visited COCO-LATEX around 2001 and it doesn’t surprise me they burned down. Microwave (ata that time they use it for drying) is a dangerous tool, if you don’t know how to control it.

Some basics on the subject of DUNLOP vs. TALALAY (from another text of mine):

There were times when there were clear differences between these foams. This was based on the different manufacturing processes, in particular the 2 additional and one modified step in the TALALAY process. Firstly, these are pumping out the remaining air after (partially) filling the mold in order to fill it completely and secondly, the subsequent freezing of the foam with the mold to around minus 22 degrees Celsius. The third and modified step concerns the gelling, which is carried out in TALALAY foam by introducing carbon dioxide into the frozen foam. In DUNLOP foam, a gelling agent is mixed in immediately before the molds are filled.

DUNLOP foam (in the past) was used to be produced in batches with large HOBART mixers. The uniformity in terms of density was a matter of luck and/or the task of the responsible employee. The foam structure was inhomogeneous, there were many large bubbles that naturally wanted to come to the surface. The dispersions were produced using ball mills, the particle size was correspondingly large, which led to an increased need for vulcanization chemicals to ensure complete vulcanization.

In my opinion, both of the points mentioned above led to the myth of the different hardness in DUNLOP foams being created.

Nowadays, the DUNLOP process uses modern high-tech mixers that continuously produce an exact density with the same qualities and the same good and fine foam structure.

The statement “The TALALAY process enables lighter densities” is just as misleading. This is demonstrably false. With modern mixers, the DUNLOP process can produce foams with 55 grams per litre (dry) or less.

I bet that most of the so-called experts would not be able to tell the difference between a (modern) DUNLOP foam and a TALALAY foam (in a finished mattress) in a blind test.

The vulcanization itself in both processes is the same. The foam is vulcanized (heated up) through the detour from steam to metal mould surface from there through the pins into the foam”. The pin design (length and diameter) may differ, the process itself is the same SLOW one. With high pressure steam you may shorten it a bit, but in turn that needs additional expensive technical upgrade.

To my knowledge, in both cases a King Size mattress needs one hour to vulcanize, with RF only 5 minutes.

I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Jens

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Hi Jens,
I appreciate your deep dive into the technicalities of each process, there have been many advances in the Dunlop process.

We have both 55D Dunlop and super soft Talalay here at our facility. While during times of Talalay latex shortages (ie. COVID) we have used the 55D in its place. However, it is less “spongy” in my opinion. I also think it depends on the supplier and the age of their equipment.

Since most major manufacturers purchase from a variety of suppliers, generally speaking, there is still a difference on the whole. For the consumer, it is hard to discern what they are getting as manufacturers rarely share the origin of the latex.

Best,
Angela

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