Latex in Little Rock

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hello,

I’ve been trying to take in all the information I could this weekend and I decided it was time to jump in. My husband and I are looking to replace our current innerspring mattress. We are big people - I’m almost 6 ft, he’s over 6 ft and we are both heavy. Additionally he sleeps very hot. Based on what I could glean so far - I think we’re aiming for latex. He is a back sleeper mostly but I’m pretty much a side sleeper and I can tell you right now he’s going to choke at about the $999 threshold (Actually probably lower than that but I can probably push him that far). So any of those “DIYs” different on each side set ups are out.

I did see that Dreamline Mattresses was mentioned on here and they are in Cabot, AR which is not far from here so I’m planning on going there. Their website doesn’t offer a lot of info so if anyone can offer any feedback I’d appreciate it.

Can anyone suggest any other Latex retailers in the Little Rock area - or Arkansas in general? We’ll be in Dallas in July and plan on going to Ikea to look at their latex mattress options. (I’ve duly noted the info about the Edsele and the Heggedal)

Any other information you can offer a newbie on a budget would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Lara

2

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

I believe that while latex could be a better solution because of it’s combination of pressure relief, resilience, breathability, support, durability it’s also true that it is among the most expensive mattress materials and it may not fit into your budget (at least for an all latex mattress). This means that you may be looking at the “best” of the partly latex options (with latex in the comfort layer). A high quality non latex option may also work well and can provide good value (high quality polyfoam over a good quality and supportive innerspring).

Because of it’s longevity … latex may also represent better value but budget restrictions being what they are … the best value inside your budget would seem to be a reasonable goal.

There are a couple of “Little Rock” posts but no “Little Rock” thread so I’ll amalgamate the information here and perhaps add a little bit as well. Some of these may be outside of your budget (such as the all latex options) but I’ll include them for others in the area who may be looking at different choices.

http://www.jordanmattress.com/ Local factory direct manufacturer in Hot Springs. They make a range of mattresses including latex, innersprings, and memory foam and other high quality materials. Have been making mattresses for over 50 years. I talked with a salesperson there who had been working there for 18 years but I haven’t had a chance to talk with the owner who is the “materials” expert. I would certainly include them in my research.

Denver Mattress® - The Easiest Way to Get the Right Mattress North Little Rock, Conway, AR. Regional factory direct manufacturer that makes a wide range of mattresses including latex, memory foam, and innersprings that use higher quality materials. They are open and transparent about the materials they use but I would focus only on the mattresses they make and not the major brands they also carry.

http://www.dreamlinebedding.com/ Wholesale manufacturer in Cabot which makes a range of mattresses including memory foam and a latex/memory foam hybrid which use some high quality materials and look interesting. They are wholesale only so it would take a phone call to find out which retail outlets may carry them in Little Rock.

North Little Rock Mattress Co in Cabot, AR with Reviews Retail store in Cabot which carries some of the Dreamline mattresses on their floor (and can order what he doesn’t have). While he doesn’t know the densities of the memory foam or polyfoam used … he is more than happy to call and find out for those who ask (and everyone should ask to know the quality of the materials used). NOTE: their website is currently down so I would call first to make sure they are still in business.

Redirecting... Retail store in North Little Rock. They carry Sleeptronic which makes a wide range of mattresses but they carry mostly innerspring/polyfoam promotional mattresses and memory foam specialty bedding and don’t carry latex on their floor. They do understand the importance of knowing the materials in their mattresses and are happy to provide the specs they know about or can find out from their factory. NOTE: their website is currently down so I would call first to make sure they are still in business.

Once again … bear in mind that the only way to know the different quality/durability of foams that are used in a mattress is to know the density of any memory foam and polyfoam used. Lower density layers should be kept to an absolute minimum to avoid premature softening … especially as the budget range increases. The easiest way to know this is to deal with someone who is knowledgeable about the different types of foams and mattress materials and also how to fit a mattress to a customer’s needs and preferences instead of just saying “find the one that’s the most comfortable”. The more they know the less research you will need to do on your own.

This article may help you to know some of the qualities of better outlets and how to do some foam research before you go there.

Phoenix

3

Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoroughly.

I’ve sent some emails to make some initial contacts with the local manufacturers hopefully I can get some more specific content information and pricing specifics.

I’ll keep you posted.

Thanks again.

Lara

4

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

I would suggest talking to them on the phone rather than using email unless the questions have very simple few word black and white answers that can be answered in a single sentence.

In most cases though … the questions that consumers usually ask have much more nuanced answers or answers that start with “it depends” and then a long list of variables that will change the answer. Because of this … most manufacturers realize the email answers are at best incomplete and will often require back and forth replies over the course of several days or weeks which otherwise could have been dealt with in a few minutes. Because emails are many times more time intensive than phone calls to get to more accurate and meaningful answers … they will often go to the end of the priority list. Many times what a consumer believes is a simple question about layering or material specs is actually much more complex than they may realize and they can take a lot of thought (and time) to try and discern what is really being asked. Most questions need “question” type of replies before any real answer can be given.

In addition to this … many local manufacturers are more from the “old school” and much less high tech and much prefer to use voice communications rather than more high tech communications where they (and you) can’t sense the “tone” of the conversation. In some cases there are manufacturers who make high quality products that don’t even have a website or their website has little information and needs a phone call to fill in the gaps.

So basic or “yes or no” questions such as “what are your hours” emails may get a more timely reply (if they read them frequently and many don’t) … but even for these I would recommend a call which will give you a much greater sense of the type of person or outlet you are dealing with.

I should also mention that in many cases pricing specific questions may not be answered initially unless they are very “black and white” (pertaining to a specific mattress that they make themselves rather than a mattress that they carry that is made by someone else) or asked as part of a more involved conversation. This is because they understand that pricing questions without the context of materials or construction are often an indication of a consumer that is price shopping only (regardless of quality or the suitability of a mattress for a particular use or person) and may be looking to buy the cheapest mattress that is available without regard to the materials that are in it.

Phoenix

5

I am not anti phone and certainly plan to use it in the grand scheme of this process. However at this point I feel the questions I am asking are very black an white. As you know I am not in the price range of the custom made, I’m essentially working with their stock items so it comes down to “What is the content and specs of mattress X?” and how much does it cost? Or if you are wholesaler, where can I purchase it? I am very much still in the early fact finding phase, I have yet to even start my spreadsheet. :wink:

I have been emailing with Dreamline this morning and I have JPGs of spec sheets on 5 of their mattresses. Can I post them? Would you be able to provide feedback? Should I start another thread just for those? “Dreamline Specs” maybe?

Thanks.

PS - I found on the Twin City Mattress website where it says they carry Corsicana and Sleeptronic mattresses.

6

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

Absolutely … I would post them here (and keep everything in the same place) :slight_smile:

Both of these brands are manufactured in TX, tend to focus on low to mid range budgets, and depending on the retail outlet can be better value than most larger more mainstream brands (although Corsicana is a fairly large manufacturer themselves and the owners are in the process of a rather aggressive expansion) although neither makes an all latex mattress that I’m aware of. They also both make a very wide range of mattresses using different combinations of components and materials. The key to shopping most alternative brands (rather than local manufacturers) is the ease with which you are able to obtain the “quality specs” of the materials (particularly polyfoam and memory foam density) and this will often depend on the approach of the retailer that carries them and their willingness and ability to answer these types of questions. I included them because their website seemed to indicate that they were more open and informative than the “norm” even though there are no specifics on their site (outside of the little box on their main page :))

I’m looking forward to seeing what you discover.

Phoenix

7

Here are the specs on the Dreamline mattresses with even a modicum of latex in them (Well that’s not true I left off the Innovation 4). I didn’t “drill down” regarding any more specifics on “inches” or “densities” because I figured there would be some immediate weeding out of some of these.

Price Ranges for a King size mattress on all of these were as follows:
La Grande 3, $625 - $699
Winter Retreat, $650 - $750
Latex Supreme, $720 - $899
The Dream, $960 - $1399

As for Twin City and their brands, they were both in the $1500 range if I recall - apparently I didn’t write it down but obviously they were significantly higher than these. I also got some information for Jordan bedding and Eads brothers. I’ll post that shortly.

8

Here is some general information from Eads Brothers Furniture Co out of Ft. Smith AR. They only have 2 mattresses that are even partially latex.

  1. “Pure” Euro Top. I have minimal data on this one but have requested more…
    357 Verti-Coil 13.75 Gauge High Profile - 9" Foundation, Foam Encased Innerspring w/Latex Foam. Retails for about $850

  2. “Resound” Euro Pillow Top. 847 Tri-Zone Pocket Coil Spring System Foam Encased Wireless Perimeter Palm Super Soft Convoluted Foam Anti-Microbial Pressure Relieving Latex. Retails for about $1,100 I’ve attached an image with a bit more detail. I have emailed back with a fairly extensive list of questions.

9

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

Thanks for posting the specs. I appreciate it.

Some comments but first a question. Do you know why there is a range of prices for the same mattress in the same size (King)?

La Grande 3, $625 - $699

I would want to know …

  • The material used in the quilting (and the density if it was polyfoam)
  • The thickness and the type of latex
  • It looks like they use two innersprings in the mattress. Is this the case or is the diagram incorrect (that would be unusual)?
  • The density of the 5/8 polyfoam would be nice to know but I could live with less than an inch of unknown or lower density material.

I can’t really make any more comments without knowing these.

Winter Retreat, $650 - $750

I would want to know …

  • The material used in the quilting (and the density if it was polyfoam)
  • The thickness and the type of latex
  • the thickness and the density of the convoluted foam.

Again … without this it’s difficult to make any real judgements

Latex Supreme, $720 - $899

I would want to know the type of latex but the polyfoam base is good quality and this appears (subject to the type of latex) to have good value and I would certainly consider it if it “fit” me in terms of PPP (pressure relief, posture and alignment, and preferences)

The Dream, $960 - $1399

I would want to know …

  • The type of latex
  • The density of the convoluted polyfoam

This also has some good potential though and I personally happen to like the feel of a couple of inches of latex over memory foam. With the convoluted foam in the mix though as well as the upper layers of latex (probably softer) and memory foam, the comfort layers seem fairly thick and soft which may be good for side sleepers or those who like soft mattresses but I would make sure that alignment was good on this mattress. This one has an even bigger price range for the same mattress.

I would be leaning towards the last two … so far.

[quote]1) “Pure” Euro Top. I have minimal data on this one but have requested more…
357 Verti-Coil 13.75 Gauge High Profile - 9" Foundation, Foam Encased Innerspring w/Latex Foam. Retails for about $850[/quote]

I would want to know the details of the latex (thickness and type). I would also ask if there were any missing layers (there should at least be an insulator between the latex and the coils but there are likely some other missing layers as well as the details of the ticking/quilting). I’ll make more comments when you have any more details.

This is made by a Chinese company called Stylution who purchased Wickline who used to make the Sleep Therapy brand. there are lots of layer details missing here as you know. In cases like these I would also want to know if any polyfoam was American made or CertiPur certified.

When you get the answers to your questions I’ll be happy to make more comments. Thanks again for all your research.

Phoenix

10

Quick reply for the only answer I know off the top of my head. The range of prices is because Dreamline is a wholesaler, and the range represents the prices across the 3 places in central AR that carry their mattresses. And yes - the prices are for a King.

11

La Grande 3
-What material is used in the quilting Dreamsoft fiber quilting is is a fiber polyester blend along with polyurethane foam (1.2 density I’m guessing)
-What is the thickness and type of latex ½" and natural Talalay latex
-What is the density of the 5/8 polyfoam 1.2 density

  • Can you explain to me about the coils… This is a coil on coil mattress so there are 936 total coils in a King, 13.5 gauge and the mattress can be flipped.

Winter Retreat

  • The material used in the quilting (any polyfoam? What is the density?) Polyfoam…same density (1.2 I’m guessing)
  • The thickness and the type of latex 1" Talalay
  • the thickness and the density of the convoluted foam. 2 ½" 1.8 density

Latex Supreme
-What is the type of latex? Talalay…made in USA
-What is the cover made of? Stretch knit cotton/poly blend

The Dream

  • The type of latex Talalay
  • The density of the convoluted polyfoam 1.8 density
    -The type of cover Stretch knit cotton/poly blend

Still trying to get the actual compression numbers (rating?) for the 1.2 and 1.8 polyfoams, and clarification on the poly in the quilting but I think I got everything else.

12

Here’s some more info on the Eads Brothers…

Pure:
-Uses 1" of latex foam right below the quilting layer. It is Talalay Latex

-Has an insulator pad and a 1" piece of convoluted foam between the coils and the Latex Foam. 1.5 18 Conv foam. (The same as the resound.)

-The ticking has a Teddy Bear cover. It has 1.5" of super soft quilting foam quilted to the ticking.

Resound: I’ve attached a merge image of specification pics provided by Chris Eads. He said this was the extent of the info he has on this mattress.

13

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

I’m grateful for the research you are doing and I’m also happy that you are getting such good answers so quickly :slight_smile:

It’s also nice to see manufacturers that are so responsive and open about their materials (which is why I like smaller manufacturers or better outlets in general because the odds are better that you can get better information about their mattresses).

That makes perfect sense and also means that the lower price would be the most appropriate “value” price to use in comparisons.

Some general comments so that you can “fit” the information you are getting into the mix of materials in each mattress.

La Grande 3

Polyester fiber - This is a synthetic fiber which like all fibers will compress over time. It is used because it provides a soft quilting layer in a mattress which has a nice feel but or course is a synthetic materials and is not the same quality (or price) as a natural fiber like wool and will break down more quickly. I usually include it in the layers which may have “issues” over time because of softening, breakdown, or degradation all of which can change the feel of a mattress.

1.2 lb polyurethane foam - This is a low grade polyfoam which is generally used in quilting because it can be made very soft and is also very inexpensive. It is subject to softening and premature breakdown more quickly than higher density polyfoams (which can also be made very soft but are more expensive). This is the type of foam that I try to make sure is in total layers of around an inch (perhaps a slight bit more) or less. If it is only in thin layers … then its softening will have less overall effect on the mattress. Thicker layers I would avoid completely (whether in the quilting or in the comfort layers).

Talalay latex is a great material but this is a very thin layer which will have much less effect on the mattress itself than a thicker layer.

Again ,… this is low density foam and the thickness should be added to any other low density foams or materials with possible “issues” in the upper layers (most subject to softening and wear) in order to evaluate the overall quality of the mattress.

This is a somewhat unusual construction with basically two innerspring support layers used in the same mattress with an insulator in between them. It would create a more giving support layer than a single innerspring but it wouldn’g compress twice as much (which a double spring would normally do) because of the modifying insulator in between them. In effect this is two lower coil count and firmer gauge innersprings added to each other to create a specific feel and performance. “Coil on coil” can have different meanings used by different manufacturers which include innersprings on boxsprings (which have coils), two sets of innersprings in a single mattress (as in this case), or an innerspring in the support layers combined with a type of innerspring called a microcoil that is used in the comfort layers of a mattress. All of these are often described as “coil on coil” even though they are very different.

Winter Retreat

Same material comments except for …

This is getting into the better range of polyfoam that is used in the upper layers. An eggcrate is a way to make a firmer foam softer in the “convoluted” part (less material to compress) but still firmer in the non convoluted base. This gives the foam more softness with initial compression and more firmness with deeper compression (which can simulate the qualities of higher density foam which does this without the convoluting). The disadvantage of convoluting is there is less material which means more wear and tear with compression and less durability. It is also lower cost because two layers can be made from one solid layer of the same material. The advantage of higher density foam is that it is more durable. Firmer foam can also be more durable because it will be less subject to the same degree of mechanical compression.

Latex Supreme

Made in the USA talalay would mean it is from Latex International which is one of two talalay latex manufacturers that makes high quality Talalay that is used in North America (the other is Radium).

Stretch knit cotton/poly blend - Stretch knits are much more stretchy than woven materials and conform better to the softer layers underneath them. Polyester in the blend is less expensive than higher quality natural fiber fabrics (or “artificial” fabrics like bamboo rayon) and less breathable.

The Dream

Same comments as previous materials.

The compression numbers would not be “quality” issues and in the case of convoluted foams would be “distorted” because the ILD nd performance of the layer will be as affected by the convoluting (which has manydifferent patterns) than the ILD itself. The ILD of thin 1.2 lb quilting foam can be assumed to be very soft (you will see terms like hypersoft or supersoft) and they can all be assumed to have a very low ILD which would be “suitable” for the hand feel they are trying to achieve. I generally don’t make an issue out of the ILD of quilting layers or convoluted layers because personal testing will tell me much more than the ILD numbers.

So this should give you what you need to decide if a mattress is really worth considering or where it may “rank” in your choices. Overall I look for the thinnest possible layers that could be “problems” or that could be the “weak link” of the mattress. The less “problems” or “possible weak links” the happier I am and the more inclined I would be to look seriously at the mattress … and of course the lower the budget the more you can expect less expensive materials in the mattress.

I’ll make some comments about your last post in my next reply.

Phoenix

14

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

OK … some more comments about the Eads Brothers mattresses,

-Uses 1" of latex foam right below the quilting layer. It is Talalay Latex

This is a good quality material.

-Has an insulator pad and a 1" piece of convoluted foam between the coils and the Latex Foam. 1.5 18 Conv foam. (The same as the resound.)

I’m glad to see the insulator pad (to prevent the foam from compressing into the gaps between the low coil count innerspring).

1.5 lb density is on the low side for convoluted foam (which is less durable than non convoluted because it has less material).

In general … and looking at the mattress itself (which is a Eurotop) … it appears to me that there are more layers missing and there is more “stuff” than just the 1" of latex, the 1" of convolute, and the innerspring (a “value priced” offset verticoil) and an insulator. This only includes 2" of foam which doesn’t seem to be enough to fill the eurotop much less what is in the quilting or the main body of the mattress. Since we are already at an inch of foam and and any other polyfoam needs to be added into the picture to find out how much low density polyfoam and synthetic fiber is in the mattress and quilting, not to mention the foam encasing (which is OK but a budget cutting way to make the edges firmer) … I would probably drop this one. Once it gets too difficult to find out what I want to know or things don’t “add up” … I generally move on.

As a side note … I generally ask for the price “mattress only” so that the variables of the foundation aren’t added into the mix of comparisons.

Because this is made by a Chinese company and because the Chinese make some good quality as well as some poor quality materials … I would hold this to a much more specific and higher standard of “knowing” what was in the mattress.

Innerspring:

Seems to be a high quality zoned pocket coil with higher than average turns and a good coil count. Also foam encased which is OK but a way of cutting costs. At least it has a border rod (edge firmness and keeps the shape better).

Quilt top:

FR fiber (who knows what is added to make the synthetic polyester fiber fire retardant.

.5" 1514 palm foam … OK for a quilting layer (better than 1.2 and not too thick). This is “Palm Foam” though which means it has some filler material in it (palm fibers) which can lower the durability of the foam and give it a false density. This is done as an inexpensive way to change the characteristics of the foam (make it stiffer/firmer, higher ILD, more resilient, cheaper etc).

Stretch ticking (which is good but probably synthetic fabric or it would say).

Upholstery Top:

1" Dunlop latex. Doesn’t say if this is blended with synthetic or 100% natural (which I strongly prefer in Dunlop).
2" 1817 convolute (1.8 lb density 17 ILD). This is “OK” … see previous comments about convoluted. It’s also under the Dunlop which puts it lower in the mattress and makes it compress a little less which increases durability.
1" 1518 convolute. Lower density but also lower in the mattress. A way to use lower quality materials and “get away with it” because they are a little less prone to compression.

Upholstery Bottom:
1.5" 1.2 lb 20 ILD polyfoam. Very low density/quality

Border foam is on the sides for FR purposes and not a significant part of the performance of the mattress.

total foam = 1.5" + 1.5" + 2" + 1" + .5" = 6.5"
Innerspring = 7"

Total height should be about 13.5" plus the thickness of various fabrics and fiber.
It says the thickness is 14.5" so we know we have it all.

Overall though … while this has a good zoned innerspring … there is too much lower density/quality foam in it for me to seriously consider. If I was to consider it … I would want to make sure that any foam used was CertiPur certified. While most North American produced foam is safe (although I would avoid FR synthetic fibers and foam) … I would definately make sure that any non North American foam was certified by a reputable organization. this would also be very soft with a lot of soft foam over a fairly soft innerspring (although the middle area is firmer which is good).

Again I prefer mattress only prices but I’m not particularly excited about either of these.

Phoenix

15

As usual thanks for the thorough replies. Another quick note, all the prices I’ve listed have been for just King mattresses. Frankly - I’m somewhat relieved to mark those off the list because they are in Fort Smith - if I’m really hard pressed and have to leave town, Memphis is actually closer! I’ll respond in more detail to your Dreamline comments in a bit. I wanted to get this last thing posted.

The last Arkansas manufacturer is Jordan Brothers in Hot Springs. I have gotten some information from them but, they have been the least forthcoming. I have both called and emailed and they have been minimally responsive. My plan is to call tomorrow and be more pointed in my questioning. If they aren’t interested in spending the time to answer my questions, I’ll take them off my list. They are the at the top of my price point and Hot Springs is a drive for us so if they aren’t going to make it easy I’m not going to go out of my way to give them my money.

The quote I got from them was for their Talalay Latex - King Size. For the mattress alone it would be $1,295. I do have a graphic but it tells ya a whole lot of nothing. Maybe you can glean something out of it…

16

Hi ShivagosGirl,

The Jordans mattress you listed would be one I could consider with a little extra information about what is and isn’t in the mattress.

It has a 6" talalay latex support core (which is a high quality and expensive material) and has an inch of HD polyfoam on each side to add to the pressure relief of the medium core (I would want to know the density but would assume it was either 1.5 or 1.8 and it doesn’t seem to be convoluted which is a bonus). It then has an inch of supersoft (which is within the maximum I would normally consider) and then has the “pillowtop” layer with the fire barrier (and I would want to know if there was any extra foam or fiber and the thickness in the pillowtop)

If the layering was just the Talalay and the 2" of foam and an inherent viscose fire barrier, this would be well worth considering. It is also finished on both sides (two sided) which adds to the expense of production, longevity, and value. It would also be nice to know the ticking material. The price seems like good value if the answers to the questions come out well.

Phoenix

17

Apparently they are night owls because I did find some things out…

The HD foam is 1.5 and was told the supersoft is also 1.5 (which I find to be confusing frankly). The Latex has an ILD of 35 btw. She said “2” quilted knit cover." (Is that the ticking?) I did ask about fabric - it’s a poly cotton blend. She did say they have an organic cotton they use on other mattresses that might could be substituted - she didn’t know about pricing tho.

I think that’s everything…

18

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

Well that’s not what I was hoping to hear.

The softness and firmness of a foam has very little to do with density which is often confusing to people. Very low density and very high density foam can all be made in a range from very soft to very firm. It is one of the most misunderstood aspects of polyfoam. Density is the most important “spec” because it is the single biggest part of what determines durability. 35 is in the medium “range” but this has nothing to do with quality and testing the mattress would say more about the suitability of the ILD for a particular person (although it would be fairly typical for a suupport core).

There is also a wide range of what people call HD (high density) polyfoam. When some people call 1.5 lb density HD … what they are really saying is that it is higher density than the 1.2 lb foam that is often used. While 1.5 is certainly better quality than 1.2 and in thinner layers can be suitable for use in a lower budget mattress (just like 1.2 lb is OK in a thin layer in a quilting) it’s all relative to the price and the combination of materials and where in the mattress the foam is used.

For example … there are some lower budget mattresses that use a couple of inches of 1.5 lb foam on each side of an innerspring (with an insulator in between) and sell for very reasonable prices and are much better quality than similar mattresses that use 1.2 (or even lower) polyfoam which are pretty much “throwaway” type mattresses. With thin two sided layers like this and if the polyfoam is attached to the innerspring rather than just lying loose or if it is tufted (which pre-compresses it and helps the mattress last longer) then it would be suitable for a mattress in a lower budget range. The higher the budget … the more you would hope to see less lower density polyfoam and more higher density polyfoam (or other higher quality foam like latex). Any material can be suitable if it is in the budget range that justifies it.

When I am looking at a mattress … I rarely go into the detail we have been going into but mostly just try to identify the thickness of the materials that could be a “weak link” and take into account where in the mattress they are (the closer to the top the more they are subject to mechanical compression and wear). Once you are past a couple of inches of “problematic” material … then it’s time to look elsewhere unless your budget requires that you consider a mattress that uses lower quality polyfoam and polyester fiber in larger quantities.

In this case there is 4" of lower quality foam or fiber on each side of the mattress. 2" of this is polyfoam (the 1.5 lb layers) and then there is two more inches of fiber in the quilting. Ticking is just another word for the cover fabric and this can either be just the fabric (which can be a more stretchy knit or a less stretchy woven fabric) or have various foams and fibers quilted to it (using various quiting or sewing patterns). The different quilting patterns will also have an effect on how the foam feels (looser or more widely spaced patterns will be softer and tighter quilting patterns will be firmer).

Fiber in a mattress can shift and develop thin spots (although the quilting will also help to hold it in place) and it can also compress which makes it firmer. Polyester fiber comes in several grades but even higher quality will break down more quickly than natural fibers or higher quality foams. This compression of fibers will affect the feel of the mattress (compressed fiber gets firmer). Low density poyfoam on the other hand gets softer faster than higher quality materials.

If there is too much of either (or both) then the compression of the fiber and the softening of the foam can change the feel and performance of the mattress significantly over time. I always think this is a shame to use thicker layers of materials like these over high quality materials like latex.

While the “value” of this mattress is fairly good and the fact that you can flip it will slow down and even out the compression of the fibers and the softening of the foam … if I was ordering a latex mattress I would prefer to be sleeping closer to the latex to take advantage of it’s properties and thicker layers of lower quality materials only detract from the latex IMO.

I would much rather pay a little more and have the same 6" core with a couple inches of softer latex on one or both sides and then perhaps a thin quilting layer to “finish” the mattress. If I was going to add fiber … I would prefer to use wool (which again will add to the cost but it performs much better than synthetic fibers). I think constructions like this “miss the boat” somewhat although they are fairly common.

Phoenix

19

Again - thanks for all the work you put into this.

So - knee jerk reaction, circling back around. Is there anything worth while that is worth the drive to Dreamline to consider? It’s 45 mins to an hour to where they are and if there’s nothing worth the drive, then there’s nothing worth the money.

I think one thing that may change the focus a little, life doesn’t always present you with what’s the best mattress you can find, it’s what’s the best mattress you can afford. So I’m really having to keep in mind the “ROI” (return on investment) more than just the bottom line. So it may have to be a polyblend cover or a little less dense foam that will last us 5-6 yrs because it’s what we can pay cash for outright. At this end of its lifecycle maybe we can afford something on a higher tier.
I ceratinly don’t want to press you into a position for bad feedback because I wouldn’t be on this forum if I didn’t want good information, so if you really feel that sub $1,000 there isn’t anything with latex I want to know. Is it better that I just move on to a national retailer like Bedding Mart or Denver Mattress Co? I think you had mentioned the Aspen - which is around $1200. That would be the drop dead top price.
Anyway - all that too say, I don’t want to put anymore time into comparing and contrasting Dreamline beds if there’s really nothing there worth looking at and I’m to the point I’m not sure what I’m looking at anymore. For sub 1,000 are the Latex Supreme and The Dream worth the drive? You said you liked the latex near the top to take advantage of its properties, well this is right under the cover on both.
Thanks again.
Lara

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Hi ZhivagosGirl,

It can be difficult to answer these types of questions but I can tell you what I would normally do in cases like this where I am looking at a wholesale manufacturer and “going through” a retailer who is not used to giving out information that is that detailed.

I would normally call the manufacturer and if they are happy to deal with customers that have general questions I would ask some questions that have some “guidelines” attached to them.

The conversation would typically go along lines like this …

I’m looking for a mattress in the $1000 range (king mattress only) that has 2-3" latex in the comfort layers and as little lower density polyfoam or fiber as possible in the upper layers or the quilting. Do you have anything like this?

If they say yes … then I ask which model it is and then for the layer by layer specs. I make sure I am clear that outside of the support foam … that I would prefer no more than 1" of lower density polyfoam in the upper layers/quilting.

It usually becomes clear fairly quickly whether they have something that resembles my “criteria” and/or how willing they are to provide the specs.

If they have something that may be a possibility … then I would become more specific (and I would tell them that I wanted to try it but make sure first that it isn’t something I would rule out based on materials before I take the drive).

I agree that this is very important and higher and lower quality exist in every budget range. Any material can be suitable for use in a mattress depending on what else is in the mix and on the budget range you are looking for. The goal is relative quality in the area for a specific price range. Online outlets can also provide a reference point for value pricing although local outlets that are brick and mortar will often be a little more which I take into account as part of the “premium” for being able to test the mattress.

There are certainly options available @ $1000 (king mattress only) that has latex in the comfort layers but in this range and for this size the search can be more time consuming and difficult.

Denver Mattress is actually a factory direct manufacturer not a “retailer” although they do carry mainstream brands as well (which I would ignore). As you mentioned the Aspen is a high quality “mostly latex” mattress that uses only latex and 1.8 lb polyfoam with only an inch of supersoft lower density polyfoam (within the "guidelines). It is a little over your budget but close (your drop dead price) and it also has more than just a comfort layer that uses latex. It is very good value if it fits your needs and preferences.

Yes … I think that both would be good value in the sub $1000 king range. If I was looking for a latex/polyfoam hybrid the Latex Supreme which has two latex layers that are just under 2" (they call it 1.5" but it’s actually closer to 2") and this is over a 2.2 lb polyfoam (very high quality) base layer. It has a stretch knit cover to help conform to the latex. This seems to be in your budget and I would certainly consider it. The Dream would have a different feel and has a softer/thicker comfort layer which would have a combination of the latex/memory foam feel but this would also be a mattress well worth considering IMO and the low end of the price range seems good. Unless I was looking for a more traditional memory foam mattress (memory foam over polyfoam) … these are the two that I would prefer in their lineup. This also indicates that Dreamline would tend to have good value in their range (at the lower end of the retail range at least).

I would start with testing the Aspen and see how you feel about it. If it was “perfect” then this would probably be the direction I would go. If not … and the pricing of the Latex Supreme seemed to make it worth including in your testing or if you wanted to try a latex memory foam combination … then I would take the drive so that you had the chance to make your best choice.

I talked with Twin City today and while Sleeptronic does make a latex/polyfoam hybrid, they don’t carry it and mainly carry promotional (lower budget) polyfoam/innerspring mattresses and memory foam specialty mattresses. He is more than happy though to provide the foam density information to the best of his ability and agrees with the importance of doing so.

I also talked with the owner of Jordans today and as you mentioned he is less forthcoming than a typical local manufacturer. He confirmed that their latex two sided was 6" of talalay with 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam on each side with a fire barrier and stretch knit cover. While this is on the low density polyfoam side … it is also only 2" and two sided so again the price seems reasonable and if it met your needs and preferences I would consider it. He was not as open though about his memory foam (which comes from China) and also didn’t know what CertiPur was (he thought it was a brand of foam) and instead of finding out if his source was certified be became a little aggressive and told me to phone his foam distributor. I replied that I thought it would be better if he did so as part of his customer service. His only comment was he has been using it for 10 years and has had “no problems”. He was not quite as open and helpful as many local factory direct manufacturers that I have talked with and was more “curt” and “short” in his responses.

Bedding Mart carries PLB which are very nice all talalay latex mattresses but out of your budget.

Overall …if I was looking at latex … I would be looking at Denver mattress and Dreamline outlets.

This would also give you a good reference point for an online purchase if that was an option that seemed worthwhile for you although the local value that we have narrowed it down to seems good and my preference would be to buy something I had tested if the value warrants it.

So those are the options I would be looking at if I was in your shoes :slight_smile:

Phoenix