I’ve been unable to find the arrangement of my latex layers that enables me to sleep through the night and without lower back pain the next morning. My full-size bed frame is 3 inch steel slats with about 3 inches between slats. I have 4 layers of Dunlap latex: a 3 inch firm, a 3 inch medium-firm, a 2 inch medium (from Plush Beds) and a 2 inch Talalay soft layer (from Latex Mattress Factory). I am 5’8" and about 130 pounds and a side sleeper. I have tried many different arrangements of the layers. The 3 inch Firm on top allowed little or no sleep and the other arrangements all seem to hammock which causes my back to tense up, not relax, and thus toss and turn sleep. My partner is tired of rearranging the layers, which is very labor intensive when you’re an older person. If I try to sleep on my back on the very edge against the wall there seems to be less hammocking. Also, there is a center steel piece in the bed frame, so I don’t think it’s the frame. Are latex layers not uniform as far as density? Anyway, please help so I can sleep!
Thanks much!
Hello and thanks for reaching out! Dunlop is a little inconsistent by nature, and one part of a Dunlop layer may be a bit softer or a bit firmer than another part of that same layer, but you really shouldn’t be able to notice that difference. The general consensus in the latex industry is that most people won’t notice a difference in firmness unless there’s a 3 point ILD difference or more, and most Dunlop layers don’t have that level of inconsistency. If you’re noticing a difference in feel between the edge and center of your side of the mattress, it’s more likely that it’s because of the way the layers are assembled in the cover. Fixing this really is just a matter of making sure the mattress is assembled correctly. You would want to make sure that bottom layer is lined up with respect to the mattress cover as closely and squarely as possible before you stack the next layer. Once the bottom layer looks like it’s in the right place with respect to the foundation and the mattress cover, you would lay the next layer on top of it, again making sure the layer looks like it’s the “right size” and in the right place. Once the second layer is squarely and properly aligned with the bottom layer, you would install the top layer, taking the same precautions to ensure everything is lined up right before you zip up the cover. Our sister company Sleep EZ has video instructions illustrating the process, and that video can be viewed here - https://www.sleepez.com/pages/latex-mattress-assembly.
Regarding the comfort issue, I’d be happy to address that for you but would need a little more information first. How long did you sleep on any one configuration before changing it again? What layer configuration would you say has been the best for you so far? It’s really important to make sure it doesn’t have any gaps more than 3" big, can you confirm that the foundation meets that criteria?
Thanks so much for your helpful reply! We have had problems getting 3 of the 4 layers into the cover. We will try to place the bottom half of the cover over the foundation (although the foundation seems a little bigger and has sharp corners) and this should make the placement easier. It seems like the layers change size and don’t fit at the corners and sides exactly. Do you kind of shake the layers and stretch or shrink them to make them align exactly to one another? The 4th layer goes on top of the cover and is either a 2 inch layer or a 3 inch layer. A quality mattress pad holds it in place.
I checked the steel foundation again and measured the spaces between slats and they are either a little less or a little greater than 3 inches. However, at the top of the mattress there is about a 4 inch space and I think the same at the bottom. Do you think we should rearrange the slats or somehow add a wooden slat? I took photos of the foundation from underneath, but see no place to attach them in this reply. Please advise if this would be helpful and also how to attach photos. There is a leg holding up the center slat.
My best layer arrangement has been: 2 inch medium Dunlop on top, then 3 inch firm Dunlop, then 2 inch soft Talalay, and on the bottom the 3 inch medium firm Dunlop. I don’t like how I sink in to the layers except when I move to the very edge (a couple inches or so) of the mattress against the wall. Then I feel that I have some support. I’ve tried the different combos for many nights except for the firm on top which only lasted 2-3 nights because of little sleep. Even the medium firm on top had the hammock effect. What do you think? Am I just not suited to latex? Thanks much!
To answer your first question, you’re correct - you will only be able to move it while you are sending ripples through the layer (as if you are laying down a bed sheet). If you stretch or compress the layer when putting into position, it may become too large or too small and the rest of the layers will not fit correctly, and neither will the cover. If a layer seems too big or too small, you can shake it a bit and it will return to its original shape.
By having the top layer outside of the cover, this will make for a much plusher feel which may be causing some of the “hammocking” you’ve referenced. Having a top layer that is not encased with the rest of the mattress will allow that top layer enough spatial freedom to move upwards when you lay on it, making for a very plush and enveloping feel. So getting all the layers inside of a single cover can help reduce the plushness / sinking feeling.
Normally when our customers have a foundation with gaps more than 3" apart, we recommend that they go to Home Depot or Lowes and purchase a 3/4" piece of plywood to place between the mattress and foundation.
Since your best setup so far was “2 inch medium Dunlop on top, then 3 inch firm Dunlop, then 2 inch soft Talalay, and on the bottom the 3 inch medium firm Dunlop” but you just didn’t like the extra hammocking / sinking, I think the best option would be to go back to that layer arrangement but have all of the layers inside of a single cover. If the company you bought the cover from won’t alter it to a thicker cover for you, the only option would be to purchase a new cover that will encase all of those layers. Outside of that you would have to find a configuration that’s comfortable for you that uses only 3 layers inside of the cover you have now (so no layers outside of the cover).
OK, thanks much for your advice. So far I can’t find a cover for a 10 inch mattress. Do you think I could put the soft Talalay 2 inch layer underneath the other 3 encased Dunlop layers directly on the frame? Or, just do without the soft layer. I like the height better with that layer, but I do want to sleep.
I am sensitive to chemicals so don’t want to add the plywood board. I think the hammocking is due more to the softer layers because, if I remember correctly, when the firm 3 inch was on top I didn’t experience the hammocking, but just had sore hips, etc., because it was too hard.
I’ll look forward to your reply before I enlist help for the arduous rearrangement of layers.
Thanks!
Since your best setup so far was “2 inch medium Dunlop on top, then 3 inch firm Dunlop, then 2 inch soft Talalay, and on the bottom the 3 inch medium firm Dunlop” I would go back to that setup but put the bottom 3" medium Dunlop layer outside the cover (under the mattress basically). So the 2" Medium Dunlop, 3" firm Dunlop, and 2" soft Talalay would all be inside the cover and the 3" medium Dunlop would be at the very bottom but no inside the cover. Please let me know how that setup works for you and we can go from there.
Thanks for your response. This seems like a good idea but I’m wondering about the extra inch inside of the cover. Seven inches of latex would be encased in the 8 inch cover. Would they be compressed enough to reduce the plush, sinking feeling? Thanks!
Hey Leegin,
Thanks for your questions to the TMU Underground :). See you’re working with expert trusted member Latex Mattress Factory to resolve some comfort layer arranging, hope all is going well. Thanks too to @LatexMattressFactory for your excellent consumer support.
Read that you mentioned in your earlierpost #3 needing help adding pics to a post, here are the steps in case you’d like to upload some images:
Thanks,
Sensei
Hi again Leegin, most covers can accommodate plus or minus an inch without any issues, but you’re welcome to put the 3" medium in the cover as the bottom layer that’s in the cover, then put the 2" soft outside the cover and underneath mattress, but that will change the feel and I wouldn’t be able to say in advance if it will provide the feel you’re looking for, it may be a bit too firm, but the biggest advantage of having a layered latex mattress is that you have tons of options to get the mattress dialed in so let us know how it goes and we’ll proceed from there!
Hi LMF,
We have tried about every combination of the 4 layers, including your suggestions and nothing seems to provide comfortable sleep. Now I’m going to try some options for an Avocado standard X-long twin that is in a guest room and try to make it work for me. The Avocado standard is too firm and doesn’t provide pressure relief for me, but I really like that it doesn’t sink in so much that it feels like I’m in a hammock. I tried Avocado’s firm plush topper (D75/20-25 ILD), but again I felt like it was too plush and I had a sore lower back from the sinking/hammocking. We thought that we would try some of the layers from the Plush Beds bed (discussed in previous posts) on the Avocado and see what works. I feel like Goldilocks, but haven’t found the right feel for good sleep yet. Any ideas on which layer to try? We have 2-inch soft Talalay, 2 inch medium Dunlop, 3 inch medium-firm Dunlop, and 3 inch Firm Dunlop. Thanks for any ideas!
[quote=“Leegin” post=84064]Hi LMF,
We have tried about every combination of the 4 layers, including your suggestions and nothing seems to provide comfortable sleep. Now I’m going to try some options for an Avocado standard X-long twin that is in a guest room and try to make it work for me. The Avocado standard is too firm and doesn’t provide pressure relief for me, but I really like that it doesn’t sink in so much that it feels like I’m in a hammock. I tried Avocado’s firm plush topper (D75/20-25 ILD), but again I felt like it was too plush and I had a sore lower back from the sinking/hammocking. We thought that we would try some of the layers from the Plush Beds bed (discussed in previous posts) on the Avocado and see what works. I feel like Goldilocks, but haven’t found the right feel for good sleep yet. Any ideas on which layer to try? We have 2-inch soft Talalay, 2 inch medium Dunlop, 3 inch medium-firm Dunlop, and 3 inch Firm Dunlop. Thanks for any ideas![/quote]
I have not tried a full latex foundation myself but your situation sounds quite similar to what I just went through on my mattress rebuild. I did look at the Avocado and I liked the hybrid (spring foundation) setup but the issue for me was that you have no adjustability if it doesn’t work as shipped (ie no zipper to access the layers inside). This is why I went the route of building my own and in the end after making some adjustments I got a bed that sleeps like a hotel every night. Now I know there’s alot of great vendors on here but the only one I know of that sells an actual spring foundation is APMC and it was just the piece I was missing that solved the alignment (hammocking problem) for me. So for quite a bit cheaper you can basically build your own custom Avocado bed especially since you already have some latex toppers you can experiment with.
Here’s what I used for the foundation:
Combi-Zone Pocket Coil by Leggett and Platt, Save Big with DIY Latex Mattress Components, Latex Mattresses-Talalay and Dunlop, All Products
I built my own cover but here are the covers:
My suggestion would be to start with adding your 2" talalay (top layer) and 2" medium dunlop (sub layer) on top of the spring foundation zip it up inside the cover and see how that feels. The spring foundation is 8" plus 4" of latex toppers above so the cover needs to be around 12" deep. If you find that setup is too firm (arms/hips feel like pins and needles) I would then get another 3" soft dunlop and replace your 2" medium dunlop with that. It’s fine to have the cover slightly undersize by an inch (mine ended up like this and it worked great) when zipping it up with very soft toppers because it helps add some firmness back to the surface and prevents hammocking while sleeping.
Again some of the experts/vendors may have other suggestions but that’s just what I would try if I was in the same situation.
Hope this helps.
I think the 2" medium and 3" medium-firm would be the best bets, but feel free to try the 3" firm or 2" soft if the first two don’t work for you.