In most cases an all latex mattress does best on a solid non flexing foundation with slats that are 3" or less apart but some manufacturers will use an active box spring or flexible slats under the mattress as part of the design of the sleeping system which will add some flex and give under the mattress. This generally works best with thinner mattresses because if they are too thick then the effect of the box spring or flexible slats is reduced or minimized. If you test a mattress with an active box spring or a flexible slat foundation and it works well for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, pressure relief, and personal preferences) then they should be purchased as a set because putting it on a non flexing foundation will change the feel and performance of the mattress.
The prices you are mentioning are on the high side and I typically use the prices for the online manufacturers listed in post #21 here as a “value reference”. I would consider a “local premium” in the range of about 20% - 25% or so (in an apples to apples comparison) to be roughly “equivalent value” to make up for the higher risk of an online purchase that you can’t test first. If the difference is more than that I would consider an online purchase more seriously depending on your comfort level with any additional risk of an online purchase and on the criteria of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
Out of the three local options you mentioned it appears to me that the Escondido Mattress Factory would be the better local value but of course “value” also depends on how well it matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP and any options you have for making comfort adjustments if this becomes necessary.
The Costco Sleep Science 9" talalay latex mattress also seems quite high to me for an online purchase and many of the online manufacturers in the list I linked make a similar mattress with 9" of latex and a wool quilted cover at significantly lower prices and also offer more customized comfort and support options. In some cases they also provide the ability to re-arrange or exchange layers and change the comfort or support after you have slept on it if you make a choice that is less than your ideal. They will also provide you with much better guidance than the employees at Costco who usually have little knowledge of mattresses or how to make the most suitable choice.
When you are looking at latex mattresses the most important information is to know the thickness and type of latex in the layers (Talalay or Dunlop) and the blend of natural and synthetic rubber that was used to make it so you can make “'apples to apples” comparisons with other latex mattresses. The cover materials will also make a difference in the cost and unquilted stretch covers are typically less costly than covers that are quilted with wool (which is often used to pass the fire regulations and can improve the temperature regulation of the mattress although it may also slightly reduce the compression of the softer latex layers below it).
I totally get this as we experienced the same thing. I think the problem is that the big box manufacturers have taught us that a mattress should be fluffy with a fancy pillow top and we should feel like we’re on a cloud. Of course whether this actually translates to a good night’s sleep is up for debate. And the pillow top will probably wear down fast along with any cheap foam that was used along with the latex. Another problem is that we’re accustomed to look at how beautiful the mattress is, which is why so much goes into the visual appeal of the mattress. The standard latex mattress with a bamboo/wool cover isn’t going to look as fancy as you’ll see at Macy’s, etc… It’s hard to get beyond but you’re just going to cover it up with sheets anyways.
Also for different places in San Diego, various queen latex mattress pricing can be found here.
Thanks for the feedback … and I agree with your thoughts completely.
I think that the single biggest mistake that most consumers make is choosing a mattress based on a more subjective feeling of initial comfort which often translates into a mattress purchase that is too soft (in either the support or comfort layers) and unsuitable for their needs in the longer term. There is at least one study which indicates that the odds of making a suitable choice based on the most common methods that people use to choose a mattress are less than random chance alone. This is compounded by the sales techniques used and the “highly managed environment” of many mattress showrooms where salespeople are easily able to manipulate what people feel in the short term on a mattress using various techniques.
The second biggest “mistake” is not finding out the specifics of the materials in the mattress so there is no way to identify any potential weak links in the mattress or make any meaningful comparisons in terms of durability and how long the comfort and support qualities of a mattress are likely to last. People tend to believe that the length of a warranty is an indicator of how long a mattress will last when it has very little to do with this and in most cases is just another marketing tool used to justify higher prices.
Thanks too for the San Diego pricing link. It makes some good relative comparisons. There are a few retailers or manufacturers missing and some of the comparisons are not quite “apples to apples” (I would be very careful about Ortho Mattress in particular whose “all latex” mattress is a Stearns & Foster and uses mostly synthetic latex and may not be all latex) but it certainly is a very useful guideline. Nice catch
I totally get this as we experienced the same thing. I think the problem is that the big box manufacturers have taught us that a mattress should be fluffy with a fancy pillow top and we should feel like we’re on a cloud. Of course whether this actually translates to a good night’s sleep is up for debate. And the pillow top will probably wear down fast along with any cheap foam that was used along with the latex. Another problem is that we’re accustomed to look at how beautiful the mattress is, which is why so much goes into the visual appeal of the mattress. The standard latex mattress with a bamboo/wool cover isn’t going to look as fancy as you’ll see at Macy’s, etc… It’s hard to get beyond but you’re just going to cover it up with sheets anyways.
Stuart, I couldn’t agree with you more. In 2007 I visited the Escondido Mattress Company and looked at their latex mattresses. I was underwhelmed. I was considering a Sealy Spring Free Whistlewood latex, you see. 16 inches thick and lots of hype for $2500. Sadly, i bought the Sealy. Almost immediately I had back pains. The bed was so soft that I sunk in quite a bit, and the impression took days to go away. I started sleeping on the guest room mattress, which was over 10 years old. Fast forward to 2013–I had so much back pain I went back to Escondido mattress factory. I wound up with the 6 in latex firm, an my back couldn’t be happier.
I put our mattress shopping on hold for a while, but have returned…
I called Real Deal Furniture & Mattress in San Diego this morning and they agreed to sell me the Pure Latex Bliss Talalay 8" Pamper with base in a Cal King size for $2200, including a mattress protector IF I paid in CASH, no credit card.
I called Pure Latex Bliss and asked them the specs of that mattress, and this is what Maureen (she spoke very highly of you and this forum) told me:
2" pressure relief ild: 21
6" base ild: 40
I was wondering if you thought this was a quality mattress, at a reasonable price? Thanks!
Yes … all the materials in this mattress are high quality and there are no obvious weak links in the mattress.
Your own personal testing will tell you if it’s a suitable choice in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).
I would call it “fair” value for an 8" blended talalay latex mattress but value also depends on what other mattresses are available to you that you are comparing it to and on which parts of your own “personal value equation” are most important to you.
Lots of innerspring options, many with memory foam on top, from Boyd and Spinal Comfort, many in the lower-budget range. The only bed currently on display containing any latex is the Lavendar Latex Hybrid ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: abedderbuy.com/2013/lavender-latex-hybrid-mattress/
The pillowtop on this looks even thicker in person, maybe 4", and felt soft to me.
I was privileged to speak with Escondido About page who has been making mattresses for 60 years. You can see the giant sewing equipment in the back room. Randy can make you a two-sided innerspring mattress and box spring “like they used to.” His says his latex is all-natural talalay from Sri Lanka. He will sell you a latex topper but he does not layer latex in mattresses: you get a solid 6" slab. I asked him about ILD and he quoted something like 85-90, so obviously a different scale. I asked what he thought of memory foam; he said that it was made for the space program and they should have just left it in space.
Euro-Flex
This unassuming storefront down the street from Costco opens onto a good-sized showroom with LOTS of latex options. They have all-latex beds (solid and layered), latex over innerspring, latex over an air bed, and latex over a Röwa adjustable bed with a stretched canvas (?) “trampoline” platform. It’s all either blended or natural talalay by Latex International. This is the first store I’ve found where the staff was conversant in ILD numbers and could unzip the side of the mattress and tell you the densities of each layer. Probably because they assemble and customize their own mattresses. Higher-end stuff but not opposed to discussing economic options.
Thanks for sharing your feedback from your San Diego testing. I think it will be very helpful for others that are following in your path.
85 - 90 is the density of the latex (in kg / cu meter) and is often used by Dunlop latex manufacturers as a way to specify the softness/firmness range of the layer (Dunlop has an ILD range rather than a specific ILD). You can see some rough comparisons with ILD in post #2 here.
Wanted to chime in here and thank you all for this invaluable resource. I have been lurking for the last couple of months and you all have really opened my eyes to the mattress scene.
I am in the San Diego area and our Banner Mattress “no flip” spring mattress is awful. I am heavier than my wife and there is a noticeable indentation where I sleep and slight indentation on her side…resulting in a comically large mound in the middle. If our toddler ever manages to get in our bed, he is going to have to snuggle extra close to one of us since sleeping on the mound is impossible.
Surprise Surprise, we need a new bed! Looking at all the intro articles and trying to determine our PPP, I had mentally settled on a pure latex mattress. We visited Escondido Mattress Factory and REALLY liked it…but I was NOT ready for the price. $2400 for the king mattress, springs, and delivery. Super nice guy, really desperately want to support him, but that was WAY more than we budgeted. Our last king bed was closer to $1000, so I put the number closer to $1500 for this purchase.
So I have scoured this site to see what kind of compromises I could make and really can’t seem to find much lower than around $2000 for a latex mattress and something to put it on (we would get rid of our current boxes and we don’t have a frame).
Then I came across your last link Tuft and Needle (Mattress in a Box- Best Foam Mattresses Online | Tuft & Needle) which seems VERY different than what I was looking for…but I am astonished by the positive reviews and their philosophy. I would be fine paying $500 for a new bed every 5 years…but it seems almost too good to be true. I also know they are releasing a 10" thickness mattress “soon” and I am tempted to wait for that.
Anyways, now I am even more torn, we liked the latex we laid on at Escondido mattress, we DID NOT like the latex we laid on at Ikea (felt the slats, immediately uncomfortable)
Anything I am missing here? I really don’t like memory foam mattresses (I sink in to them) and after my latest spring mattress, I am done with those. Sorry if this is a rambling mess, but hey, it is a first post
I would keep in mind that the only way to know whether a mattress is a good match in terms of PPP is based on your own testing or personal experience. While reading about different materials or types of mattresses can certainly be helpful and some types of materials appear to be more desirable than others based on their “specs” or durability … I would make sure that you keep all your options open until your testing has confirmed what your reading indicated.
If a lower cost mattress or a “futon type” polyfoam mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP then it can certainly make a good “value” choice and in the case of Tuft and Needle they use good quality materials. They also have a good return policy so if your conversations with them indicate that it would be a good match for you then the risk of trying it is certainly lower. Of course one of the benefits of polyfoam is that it’s a much lower cost material than latex.
I would keep in mind that there are many different types of innersprings and an innerspring is not likely to be the weak link of a mattress. It’s usually the comfort layers which are the first to soften and break down so depending on the quality of the materials, an innerspring can make a good choice for people who prefer it as long as the layers above the springs are good quality and durable materials.
You certainly have other options available with different combinations of materials you may want to test in both the San Diego area and online that would be in your budget range so it would really depend on how much time you have available to research or test other mattresses either locally or on the phone and on how you feel about continuing your research or whether you are comfortable with what you have already tested or considered.
Hi, I live in San Diego and am shopping for a king sized latex mattress. I’m interested in 100% natural latex, organic materials, high quality product which will last at least 10 years, green manufacturing processes if possible, made in the USA, and better yet made in California, a showroom where I can test try out the mattress options, delivery to my bedroom, and a store that will haul away my old mattress and boxspring. I intend to put the mattress on a platform bed.
Euro-Flex on Morena Blvd., mentioned in my post above, might fill most of those requirements but is not for the budget-conscious.
Healthy Back in Hillcrest…I think they have an all-natural option.
I came across https://www.purerest.com this past week, I think from some post on this forum. Haven’t visited their showroom, but they seem big on organic/natural options.
Ikea has one all-natural latex mattress, the Morgongava. As best I can tell, the latex is continuous-pour Dunlop, made in the U.S. by Mountain Top Foam. Not sure if the cover is natural, or if it is imported. The mattress is on display in at the Mission Valley store.
Just in case you haven’t read it yet … I would make sure you’ve read the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices (including how to test a mattress to make sure that it’s a suitable choice for you in terms of PPP).
The better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the San Diego area and some comments about them are listed in post #2 here of this topic.
There are some comments about the FTC action in post #6 here. They use good quality materials but they had their own so called “testing certification” called NAOMI that was making some claims that weren’t supported (see post #4 here) and they were the only member so this was somewhat deceptive.
They certainly use good quality materials (100% natural Dunlop latex) in their mattresses but so do many other manufacturers or retailers so it’s always important to make sure you make good comparisons based on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
I believe it meets all your requirements. We drove up here this morning from San Diego to try it out. The biggest difference they offered at Flexus is the His/Hers firmness layers and it was 10" versus the Escondido mattress that only offered a single 6" one firmness. It was a fantastic price as well.
Also, for those budget minded folks, they offer Bill Me Later so we are spreading the payments over 6 months.
You can try the Latex mattress out in their showroom and they also sell shredded latex pillows, which my wife was a huge fan of. They are going to make the mattress on Monday and then deliver it next week. I worked with the owner Henry (who gave me his personal cell to help coordinate) he was amazing.
Just a quick update that our Flexus Latex mattress arrived yesterday, they actually drove it down from Covina to San Diego for us and set it up on our slats. Opened the cover and went over the latex densities with me just to make sure they had everything right and that the his/hers firmness levels were on the right side for how we normally sleep.
Only one night of sleep on it but it is blindingly obvious that this was the right choice and that our search for the right mattress is finally over. Any San Diego friends out there, I strongly recommend you checking these folks out. They aren’t far away and did delivery and set up for free. Salvation Army in our area will even pick up your old mattress for free, which was a concern of mine. Hope this helps, big thanks to Phoenix and other members of the forum for helping me find the right fit.
Thanks for the update and feedback … I appreciate it!
I think “blindingly obvious” is a good thing and it sounds like you made a great choice and won’t have to repeat the process of looking for a mattress for many years to come
I can’t tell you how helpful this site has been in beginning my search for a latex mattress in San Diego. We went by Real Deal on Saturday and they were excellent. Of course, we loved the “World’s Best Bed” model, but it’s before spending this much money on a mattress, I needed to do some research.
My wife and I will be visiting the following over the next week:
Pure Rest Organics
Escondido Mattress
Berkeley Ergo
Flexus Comfort
So far, just based on price and mattress thickness, Flexus Comfort appears to be the value leader with a 13" latex mattress in king for $2350. But I suppose the truth is in the laying. I will be sure to review all the materials that Phoenix has written prior to our next visit.
I’m just wondering how Flexus can offer 13" for $2350 relative the pricing I’ve seen for Pure Latex Bliss World’s Best Bed at 12". We’ll see how they feel. I suppose it has something to do with the price difference between the dunlop and talalay, but it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Thanks again. I’m quite certain we would have made a mistake without this site and based our decision purely on immediate comfort, not taking all the other necessary factors into account.
Pure Latex Bliss has higher margins than most smaller manufacturers such as Flexus (although this will depend to some degree on the retailer as well) and they use MAP pricing (minimum advertised pricing) as well which is controlled by the manufacturer so that they don’t lose the business of all the other manufacturers that they also supply to that use Latex International latex in their mattresses. The cost of blended Talalay and 100% natural Dunlop is fairly comparable and while PLB is certainly “better than average” in terms of quality and “value” compared to most mainstream options … they aren’t usually in the same “value range” as many smaller manufacturers. Post #32 here also includes some retailers that sell online and ship across the country that you can call and talk to and make some price comparisons for PLB mattresses.
You are certainly looking at some good options and I’ll be interested in seeing what you end up deciding
