You could try walking carefully and evenly on the mattress but in general the upper layers are the ones that are most affected by the break in period ⌠not the firmer layers deeper in the mattress.
I would think so yes.
I wouldnât think in terms of number of inches. The goal is that your spine is in a neutral alignment and that you can sleep symptom free regardless of how many inches each part of your body ends up sinking in. This can be so individual that your experience will always be the best way to assess the mattress much more than any theory or ânumber of inchesâ.
This is one of those individual things that really canât be generalized. Unfortunately aging affects all of us and in some cases itâs the best solution and itâs always beneficial. For some people no mattress may be enough to offset some of the physiological issues or changes that they may have developed over the years. Sometimes when weâre younger we donât need some of the âaidsâ or to have âperfect alignmentâ but when we get older we do. This is all part of where in the range each person is in between âI can sleep on anythingâ and âprincess and the peaâ. Each person is different. Of course it would be great to be able to use just the mattress without a pillow under your knees but sometimes itâs possible and sometimes itâs not. A thicker mattress may be helpful (which you could assess when you have another layer) and zoning may also be beneficial to provide the varying levels of support that may be needed under the different areas of the body (see post #11 here) ⌠especially in the heavier areas. Sometimes though ⌠âeducatedâ trial and error is the only pathway to success.
Again ⌠there are no rules that will apply to all people. Some people do very well with only 6" of latex but others need something thicker which can be more adaptable to different body shapes and types (see post #14 here). The most common thickness is usually in the 8" to 9" range because this allows for a 6" core layer which can adapt to different body types without getting firm too quickly and a 2" or 3" comfort layer for pressure relief and comfort. The odds of success with only 6" are higher for lighter body types but everything depends on the individual and some people need a different design or more thickness for their ideal design.
If you are able to exchange one of your layers then a third layer would give you the chance to experiment a little bit before deciding which one (if any) to send back and in the worst case you could always sell any extra layers you end up with.
I still have a chance to exchange the 36 ILD 3" latex topper with a 28 ILD topper. So my plan is to exchange, rather than just buying a 28. I will have the layers as 19 / 28. (Currently 19 / 36.) The foam layers will be placed directly on the floor.
In case 19 / 28 is too soft, I can change to 28 / 19. (Hopefully 28 / 19 is softer than 19 / 36.)
If I kept 36, I could try 19 / 28 / 36, but that would be softer than 19 / 28. I think the possibility that 19 / 28 is still too hard is unlikely; therefore, I feel the only way the 36 can be useful would be to have 19 / 36 / 28.
My question is what is the difference between 28 / 19 vs. 19 / 36 / 28? (I am assuming they are both firmer than 19 / 28, and very similar feel.) If they are very similar I think the benefit of keeping the 36 is very low.
I am guessing 19 / 36 / 28 has the similar effect as having a spring mattress under latex foam layers, like I tried a while ago. Somehow the softer layer under 36 makes the 36 softer and more contouring than 36 alone⌠Am I correct?
I am trying to confirm most likely I donât need to keep the 36. (I can always buy it again if needed.)
I read through the previous posts in the thread and they include links to most of the information that I think could help you but Iâll add a couple more here.
I see from your last reply that you are thinking about using âdominatingâ layers (firmer over softer) and there is a little more about this in post #2 here and post #2 here.
Related to this there are different types of firmness and softness that different people are more or less sensitive to. There is more about this in post #15 here.
Outside of this type of generic information ⌠the combinations you are comparing are too different from each other or to what you have tried and provided feedback about to really make any meaningful comments or try to guess at how they may feel for you except to say that if a top layer is softer it will have more âpressure relievingâ softness and if a bottom layer is softer it will have more âsupport softnessâ but they are also different thicknesses overall so the post I linked previously about the effect of layer thickness and the thickness of a mattress will also play a role in how each of them may feel for you.
I really donât know how either of these will feel for you. I would tend to avoid using a 19 ILD layer as a support layer because itâs softer than a typical support layer but once again each person is unique and your actual experience may surprise me. These two combinations are so different that itâs not really possible to guess how they may feel or compare for you except to say that the first one (with two layers) has a firmer top layer than the second one so the surface feel and âpressure relief softnessâ would be greater. It also has has a softer support layer than the second one but this would also become firmer faster because itâs thinner. They are too different and the differences are too complex to predict how you would feel on either of them or how they may compare for you. A âstandardâ layering would be 19 over 28 on a two layer mattress or 19 over 28 over 36 on a three layer mattress and once you have tested either of these and described your experience or the âsymptomsâ you experienced on them then it would be easier to guess at how a new layering that only had one specific change may feel as part of a process that may help with any symptoms you are experiencing on either of them.
In other words, outside of more generic information, I would need a reference point of a specific combination you have tried that is closer to these combinations to be able to compare them to what you have actually tried or be able to guess how a combination that has only a smaller change or changes that are less complex compared to what you have tried may feel or compare for you.
When you are experimenting with different or unusual layering then trial and error and your own feedback on different combinations are one of the most important parts of the process.
Thank you for helping me when I was new to latex. I am glad we switched to latex
Update: My spouse and I have tried blended Talalay for the last 3 years. After an exchange shortly after the original purchase, we kept a 3" 19 ILD (soft) topper on top of a 3" 28 ILD (medium) topper, totalling 6" thickness, on a wooden box platform. We tossed the soft layer due to sag issues about 2 years after purchase. So we are now sleeping on the medium topper only, which has also developed sag, causing back pain.
Now we are looking for a firmer 2" or 3" single layer, which hopefully would not sag to the point of not enough support, resulting in back pain. We prefer it to be 100% natural rubber (NR).
We are a back sleeper and a side sleeper, each weighing about 130 lb.
We would like to know:
Difference between 44 ILD NR Talalay and NR Dunlop. Is Dunlop less sagging?
Could a single layer of 3" 44 ILD NR Dunlop be too hard for 99% of the population? (The side sleeper, my partner, has slept on less than an inch layer of blanket for 2 years comfortably, when much younger, of course.)
What would be the difference between 2" and 3" 44 ILD NR Dunlop? We are assuming that 2" would feel harder than 3".
Is there any place where we can have the existing 3" queen size topper sliced into 2 pieces (1.5" each or 1" and 2") for a fee? This may come in handy, say if we were to get a 2" 44 ILD piece, and add a thin (1" to 1.5") layer of existing 28 ILD as the comfort layer. Hopefully with the thinner layer the ill effect of the existing sag will be minimized.
Are you using the latex on top of the spring mattress that you had mentioned in your previous posts, or is it just on top of the foundation? If it is on top of the foundation, what structure does that foundation have and is it on a frame? Does the frame have a proper center support? Have you tried the foam layers directly upon the floor to see if there is a difference? When youâre mentioning a sag, describe this. Do you mean that the foam is softening in certain areas, or is there more than 1" of an actual depression?
The reason I ask all of these questions is that it is odd for latex to develop a true defective depression in such a short time, but it is more possible if your foundation has some give to it. Also, if you are using only 6" of this softer latex for your entire mattress, I would have the same concerns that I did in my previous posts about you asking these softer layers to provide enough support for alignment as well as comfort.
Both products would be very high quality materials and as I mentioned earlier it is uncommon for latex to sag. A higher ILD in latex will be more dense and have more material and should maintain more of its support factor over time. Generally speaking, when rated in ILD, the Dunlop will tend to feel a bit âfirmerâ than the same ILD in Talalay.
Of course, thatâs a statement that no one would be able to quantify. Some people can sleep upon blankets, others need 12" or more of latex to achieve the comfort they desire. Itâs completely individual.
Both would be a firmer feeling material, with the 3" offering 50% more material for you to âbend intoâ. How that felt to you, whether you found it more comfortable, supportive, firmer or softer, would ultimately come down to your own personal testing and sleeping posture.
Iâm sorry, but I am not aware of any mattress factory, fabricator or pourer that allows consumers to bring in used foam and will slit it into thinner pieces.
The 3" topper is sitting on a solid wooden box foundation (not a frame), which is about 3/4 inch thick, so it is very similar to placing it on the floor directly. The foam is softening under heavy parts of the bodies. When looking at the topper, the sag is not easily detectable. I cannot see more than 1" of permanent depressions.
When my husband rolled around on the topper, he could feel that the center part of the mattress is firmer than where we normally sleep on. We tried rotating the mattress 180 degrees because the softened area is asymmetrical length wise. He noticed a slight improvement at first couple of nights, but I didnât notice any difference.
We have not tried flipping the topper, because the top side has bamboo cover, and the bottom side is a stronger paper towel type material. He thinks flipping it would not make a difference, although I understand that stiffer paper cover may slightly resist the stretching of the surface.
We know we want to go firmer than 28 ILD, and 100% NR. 2" or 3" 44 ILD NR Dunlop seems commonly available so we will search in the online store list here. Do you think thatâs a good approach?
Of course 28 to 44 ILD is a big jump so checking out the feel of that range in person at a store before ordering would be ideal. We are currently in AZ, a couple of hours drive to Yuma. Actually we are going to be there tomorrow. If you are aware of a good store to check out in Yuma, please let me know.
The softening of the topper seems normal, especially as you are using only 3" and it is doing all of the work on top of a hard platform, not allowing any layers beneath it to âshare the loadâ and dissipate your mass. The center part feeling firmer would certainly makes sense, as that foam hasnât been used nearly as much. I donât know that flipping will make too much of a difference with only 3" and the use that this has already had.
Your list is a good place to start. The change from 28 ILD to 44 ILD will be noticeable, but the 44 ILD will be more appropriate and durable if using only 3", and it may more closely approximate some of the firmer surfaces you mentioned in some of your older posts. Of course, only your own personal testing will tell you for sure, so if you end up purchasing something without trying it out be sure to check into any potential return/exchange policy in case things donât turn out as you had hoped.
All I have in Yuma is here, but these are not latex component stores:
Denver MattressÂŽ - The Easiest Way to Get the Right Mattress They are a factory direct regional manufacturer that has a wide range of mattresses but one of them is the iChoice which is a mostly Talalay latex mattress which has a separate Talalay latex topper.
mattresswarehouseofyuma.com/id4.html Yuma, AZ. They carry Stress-O-Pedic and Sherwood and neither one has an all latex mattress but they may have a latex hybrid on their floor. If you decide to go here I would call them first to see what they have on their floor and to make sure that there that any âlatexâ mattresses they carry have more than just a thin layer of latex mixed in with other materials.
Other than that the San Diego list would be your closest source of latex that I can see and there is a much wider range of options there.
