latex mattress topper

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi,

I’m one of the many duped into an expensive marginal quality mattress, (Mattresses & Beds Online from Sealy Australia) and recently decided after a couple of months to try again as it is so hard and painful to sleep on that we are sleeping on an airbed on the floor.

We went to some larger chain stores and got the same spiels as first time, but after feeling quite conned, came home, researched and found this and some other useful sites. We have now looked at outlet stores, an amazing difference, tested our spinal alignment on the beds, as well as asking proper questions (what’s in the comfort layer? - latex. Sure it is. What else? - it’s a latex comfort top. mm…? - And some foam. How much foam? - mostly foam…).

Anyway, long story and many hours of looking short, rather than losing all of our money trying to resell and then spending more again to rebuy, we are looking into a latex mattress topper, just a basic one that I can add a wool overlay to if it works and stops our back pain. I literally can’t get up in the morning from the mattress due to locking up - never come across this before and have previously had futons!

Apologies for the links, but I am in Australia so our product range is different.
We are looking at:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130941568511
and
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5cm-MEDIUM-QUEEN-LATEX-FOAM-TOPPER-MATTRESS-OVERLAY-COVERED-100-NATURAL-LATEX-/141005347958?pt=AU_Bedding&hash=item20d492dc76&_uhb=1

My question is, looking at the different hole size and placing, and the lack of info about the latex type (natural yes, but made how?) what should I be looking for in a latex layer? I had a dig through the forum but didn’t find exactly this topic, although happy to be directed if missed something. An outlet nearby sells a double sided topper with 5cm latex covered with 2cm foam and 1cm wool, but $699, ouch!!!

Would appreciate any advice :).

thanks so much,
Kirsty

2

Hi kirstys21,

It’s great to see you’re asking the right questions :slight_smile:

There are many causes for back pain on a mattress but by far the most common is a mattress that either has support layers that are too soft or comfort layers that are too thick and soft. This would be especially true for someone who was used to sleeping on a firmer futon.

A topper can be a great way to soften a mattress that is too firm but it is not an effective way to improve the support of a mattress that is too soft because this would typically require replacing softer layers in your mattress for firmer support layers or thinner/firmer comfort layers. In some cases adding a topper to a mattress that is already too soft can make the issues worse because soft top layers in your sleeping system would be deeper and would become transition or support layers and would likely be to soft for either role… Post #4 here has more about some ways that may help improve the support of your mattress to the degree it may be possible.

A mattress that is too firm can also cause alignment issues (in addition to pressure point issues) and in these cases a topper can be a good idea. There is no “formula” that can help choose a topper because of all the preferences, variables, and unknowns involved but post #2 here and the posts it links to can provide some guidelines if you need to make your mattress softer.

If a latex topper doesn’t specify that it is made of Talalay then the odds are over whelming that it’s Dunlop which is a good quality material that is less “springy” than Talalay. There really isn’t any way to know the firmness of latex from its appearance and most Dunlop either would have an ILD range or a density range that the retailer or manufacturer would normally “translate” into word ratings such as firm, medium, or soft. You can see a rough guideline here but I would keep in mind that these would not be exact and are only approximations and “soft, medium, and firm” is somewhat subject and varies based on each person’s body type, perceptions, and what they are used to.

While I haven’t done much research in Australia … there is a list of Australian forum threads in post #2 here which also includes a link to a list of some Australian manufacturers and retailers with a few comments that may be useful as well.

Phoenix

3

Thanks Phoenix.

I am currently still a bit baffled. I have never had mattress issues before, and now it seems I have nothing but issues in trying to fix this! The current mattress is hard as a rock - flimsy foam comfort layer which is all but collapsed after a few months. Add in to this that I am a side sleeper, who is relatively light and quite curvy (5’7" and 125lb), and I feel the complication just continues.

I found a previous thread with Catherine, a light curvy side sleeper and almost wish I hadn’t as I just got more confused!

At this point, I am writing to the store where we bought the mattress (Myer - a bit like Maceys) and asking for a refund on the basis that they have completely untrained staff providing incorrect advice. Put it this way - any question we asked the young sales assistant she answered by reading the plastic sales tag on the mattress. And we were uninformed newbies, but at its most basic, selling the firmest bed in the range to a person of my build who sleeps on her side (and so does my partner, also quite light) is just plain wrong.

So then, a new mattress. Considering that we are making do with airbeds and whatever blankets/doonas we can find to put over them, we are getting minimal sleep and are tired of the whole thing. no pun intended.

I don’t want a big pillow top. I think they’re a fad, and sleeping on one made me sweat unbelievably - I usually wear thermals to bed under two doonas. I could handle a latex comfort layer, with preferably wool or something. I don’t like synthetics, and in Australia there is a trend now of not just importing chinese beds and selling them side by side with the locally made ones in stores, but also the larger companies are starting to use chinese made foams in the comfort layer and we are getting issues where these foams are breaking down fast, including the bizarre ones where they disintegrate into casseinate, which is used over there in foam making. But I digress.

As mentioned, I have done lots (too much) reading and bouncing on beds, and am no closer to working out what I need. I would prefer natural top layers, I think softer springs of a gauge 14 or over, and pocket springs. I have always had double sided too, and like the way they last as I am a regular turner/flipper. Try finding that combination! I should say here that I live in the nation’s capital, which is essentially a big country town not a proper city (it’s weird in Australia, hey?), so choices are limited. Travelling to a major city, hours away, may be the next step. Madness.

Any recommendations on suitable types welcome!

Cheers,
Kirsty

4

Hi kirstyj21,

Unfortunately this is not an uncommon issue when your mattress has thick layers of rather low quality materials. If these materials soften then they can allow you to go through the top layers and feel much more of the firmer layers below them. Thicker layers of lower quality materials are the main cause of the loss of comfort and support of a mattress. When you are light and curvy then you need a comfort layer that is thick and soft enough to fill in the gaps in your sleeping profile and distribute pressure away from the pressure points and isolate you from the firmness of the support layers. This is the balance between comfort and support that is part of both the art and science of making and choosing a mattress.

Unfortunately if the cause of the issues you are having is due to the softening of thicker comfort layers … then a topper would probably not be the most suitable option. While it could isolate you from the firmness of the support layers and reduce your pressure points … you could easily end up with an alignment issue even though both of the toppers you linked are good quality materials (probably made by either Latexco or by Artilat in Belgium).

That was a confusing thread and she was holding on to some ideas that were simply not correct which caused her a lot of difficultes. I would probably ignore the thread completely as it may be much too complex to follow easily or apply to your circumstances and really be helpful.

I hope you are successful but the odds are low that you will receive a refund and the sad truth is that the same thing would probably have happened at almost any other mainstream store as well. Their argument would be that you tested the mattress and found it suitable and that there is no way for them to know for certain which type of mattress is suitable for a specific customer (and there is some truth to this because each person is different and there is no formula that can predict the needs and preferences of each person). Your mattress appears to have a fairly thick comfort layer and is rated as “plush” (not firm) so “in theory” at least it could have worked well. The problem is that they use materials that will soften too quickly not so much that the mattress is unsuitable when it is new and the second issue is that foam softening and the resultant loss of comfort and/or support isn’t covered by warranty unless the foam actually forms unweighted impressions that are deeper than the warranty exclusion which is not usually the case (you can see more about warranties in post #174 here). I know that this is frustrating to say the least but until consumers insist on knowing the quality/durability of the materials in a mattress there is little hope of significant change in the mainstream industry. I would persist as far as you can but keep your expectations of success realistic.

Pillowtops themselves are not the issue and they can be a useful and valid method of construction. The problem with most pillowtops is the type and quality of the foam in the pillowtop … not the actual pillowtop design. A mattress without a pillowtop can be made just as soft or softer than many pillowtops depending on the materials in the comfort layers and the overall design of the mattress. You can also read more about the many factors that can work together to affect sleeping temperature in post #2 here and softer or less breathable foams or fabrics or materials in or on a mattress that reduce or restrict ventilation or the wicking of moisture and humidity (including some mattress protectors and sheets) can act together to create issues with sleeping temperature.

I would avoid trying to design a mattress based on specs and focus more on the quality, durability, and type of materials you prefer and on how they feel and perform in your testing. Learning how all the mattress specs and designs work together can take years of experience and a great deal of knowledge and a steep learning curve to be successful. Double sided would certainly be more durable than a single sided mattress but there is also less design flexibility than a single sided mattress because the softer comfort layers on the bottom can’t be so thick and soft that they affect support and alignment. Single sided mattresses that use very durable materials (especially in the comfort layers) can also make a good choice … particularly if the design allows you to exchange or replace single layers so if the top layers soften sooner than the deeper layers (which is usually the case) then you can replace just a single layer without replacing the complete mattress. If you prefer more natural materials then a mattress that uses some combination of 100% natural latex, natural fibers, or innersprings would be the most common choice and all of these are durable materials.

The guidelines in post #1 here are the steps I would follow and I would avoid trying to design your mattress based on specs. The specs that are important are the ones that identify the quality and durability of a material so you have a good idea of how long your mattress may last … not the ones that have to do with comfort and support which you can test in person much more effectively. The goal is to focus on PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) based on your personal testing and to make sure that the materials inside the mattress are good quality so they won’t soften or break down too quickly and will maintain their original properties over the longer term.

Not enough meaningful or accurate information can lead to some unfortunate choices but too much information or overthinking your choice can also lead to “paralysis by analysis” and lead to poor choices just as easily. In most cases “finding the experts” that are comfortable talking about the materials in their mattresses and who are focused on educating their customers more than “selling” them using “marketing stories” can be a much more important part of choosing the most suitable mattress than becoming an expert yourself. In the end only each person can feel what they feel on a mattress and the most knowledgeable and experienced salespeople and manufacturers understand that the best they can do is to provide some guidance and education about how to choose, not what to choose, along with accurate information about the pros and cons of each material and design. They also know that once you have all the information you need ten they need to step out of the way because only each person can make the best choice for themselves.

If there are no good local options then I would also consider an online choice but in this case you would be making a choice based on more detailed conversations with a retailer or manufacturer and be using their experience and knowledge of their own mattresses and the “averages” of their customers with a similar body type and sleeping style to make your comfort and support choices. Their knowledge and experience would be particularly important in choosing a mattress that you can’t test beforehand. In this case it can be important to make sure you have good options after a purchase to either exchange layers or return the mattress in case the “averages” that work for most people that is the basis for their suggestions and guidance don’t apply or work well for you.

Phoenix