Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
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I don’t think I misunderstood… I acknowledged that I didn’t have all the particulars to make a completely informed opinion. As I said:[quote]Now, if they got their money back from Kijiji, I suppose all’s well that ends well, and I should hope that was the case![/quote]And I’m glad to hear that was the case. In any event, I never brought that up… I never even knew about it before you mentioned it.

I admit I have a poor opinion of those social “deal” sites anyway, after having been personally “screwed” on several deals by Groupon and the aforementioned Twongo. I’m sure that negative bias came through in my last statement and it, perhaps, unfairly tainted the post with a negative light to you. I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t my intent… but it was unfair since I didn’t have all the info, so I’m sorry for that.

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Hi Steve,
No worries, you’re a Gentleman for apologizing, Thank you.

All The Best to you, and i honestly hope you purchase a Latex mattress (regardless who you purchase from) rather than settling for an inferior sleep system. Eg, Coil, Memory foam. I am certain you will be glad you did!

Cheers,
George

31

Well, sadly enough… I did settle. I got a “good deal” on a low-end (roughly $700) innerspring from… don’t hate me… Sleep Country. The fact is, we needed a bed now. Our old bed sucks. It really sucks. We haven’t slept in over a month since we started this search. As I’ve said earlier (or on another thread, I can’t remember), I actually did myself a bit of a disservice by doing all this research because this industry is so horrible at giving customers the information they need to make decisions. I inevitably found myself confused and that prolonged the already long search. Basically, I drove myself (and my wife) nuts in this regard. I quickly narrowed down to wanting latex, but then stumbled on only having one local retailer… whom I eventually ruled out for a few reasons. That left me with online, and that just adds to the risk of getting it wrong.

But at least I have “an out”. We made our decision logically, I believe. We need a bed for our guestroom anyway, where it will get at most 20 nights a year of use. So when we chose the $700 bed, we did that using criteria for the guestroom. It will undoubtedly be better than our 13 year old Sealy, so it gets us by while I continue my process. My only worry, I guess, is that it is more comfortable than I expect and I get lulled into wanting to use it as our long-term daily sleeper. I know, in my head, that if I did that… this thing would be in a landfill in under 5 years. For me, that’s a primary concern (the environmental impact) so I really want to find a latex bed for long term use.

After my most recent email exchange with you George, I do feel I may have come to the wrong conclusion about you. I’m not sure. I certainly hope my concerns are unfounded and people who do buy from you are thrilled with their purchases. But for me, I can’t get there. Too many little “alarm bells” and too little history to be comfortable with a transaction of that magnitude without being able to see the product in person. I hope you don’t take that too personally. I do hope everything about your business is legit and wish you the best if it is.

Honestly, I hope a few people take “the chance” and post here saying how awesome you and your beds are! I’ll eat crow if warranted.

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Hi George,

Thanks first of all for registering in the forum and answering questions. I enjoyed our conversation a few days ago a lot and it was clear to me that you are knowledgeable about mattresses and the industry and have some “roots” in the industry. As I do in many cases though I was quite surprised when further research discovered your many connections to other companies and one of them in particular (Nasafoam) has some particularly negative feedback on the web … whether it is justified or not. My “assumption” and understanding from our conversation was that you really were “out of the business” and were now just selling latex mattresses because of a passion for “sleeping on latex” and that you would never go back to selling other types of mattresses.

I hope you don’t mind if I ask you some questions because of course one of the goals of the forum is to help people understand that who you buy from is just as important as what you buy and there are a few unanswered questions that I think it would be helpful to clarify.

The first one and the most obvious is your relationship to the other companies (listed earlier in this thread) that are connected to you either through their phone numbers, through your location, or through your personal involvement. Are all of these (and others) still part of what you are actively involved with ?

Second would be to clarify the materials you are using in your mattresses. I think that the source of your Dunlop is fairly clear (also mentioned earlier) but it would be helpful to confirm that it was 100% natural Dunlop and whether it was molded or continuous pour. It would also be helpful to know whether you are using Radium or Latex International as your source of Talalay latex and to confirm whether it was 100% natural or blended (or whether you offer a choice between them) because Latex Global doesn’t appear to supply Talalay.

I am also curious how you plan to “control” all the distributors that you hope to attract to your business. This appeared to be part of the problem with Nasafoam that distributors were acting outside of their authority but if this happens once again then it could lead to the same problem. I know from our conversation that you are answering the phone for at least some of them so that the information is consistent but are you planning to continue this so that you don’t end up with many “opportunists” that start saying anything they can or “racing to the bottom” in order to make the sale and driving more legitimate distributors out of business?

An earlier post in this thread also mentioned a current promotion here which seems to have a similar “flavor” to some of the earlier promotions. Is this coming from you or from one of your distributors. I also notice that there is an enticement to “refer 3 friends” to get your mattress for free which could end up with your customers as salespeople and possibly providing information that was incorrect in an effort to get their mattress for free. This has some of the “feel” of some multilevel companies that have distributors that will say or do anything in order to “recruit” their friends into an idea that they have bought into. It is heavily weighted towards marketing more than education … although I do realize it can be effective. It can also lead to a flood of “stereotyped reviews” that people write as part of the process of trying to sell others on what they have bought.

Do you have plans in place to control the distributors you hope to recruit?

Overall you appear to have some very good quality/value mattresses available and you clearly “know your stuff” but clarifying some of the questions that on a forum like this can be a legitimate reason for caution and some of the connections and businesses you are currently involved in would go a long way to reconciling what I “thought” I heard on our conversation with what some of the information earlier in this thread appears to point to.

Thanks again for taking the time to post here and to reply to what I realize may be some “difficult” questions.

Phoenix

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George

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Hi Natures Sleep Canada,

I’m not sure if you were replying to me or bcsteve but hopefully you will have the chance to reply to some of the questions and comments in my last reply.

I think that part of this is that so often in the industry what appears to be a “good deal” often isn’t and it’s important for a consumer to know the difference between a “good deal” and “cheap”. Value is always about much more than just price or the raw material cost of a mattress and there are many factors that may be important parts of each person’s personal value equation that have as much to do with the entire purchase experience both before and after a purchase and the service of the retailer or manufacturer they purchase from as the mattress itself.

Again … price is only one part of value and all the objective, subjective, and even intangible parts of a mattress purchase that are most important to each person and the ability to have the accurate information that makes meaningful comparisons possible are more important than just price alone … although of course price is always an important part of any “value equation”. Those that look at price alone often tend to make the biggest mistakes.

If you take a specific retailer or manufacturer out of the picture (in this case you as Nature’s Sleep) … then I think that you and most people would agree that knowing what you are paying for, what you will receive, and when you will receive it are just as important and due diligence about the mattress, the retailer or manufacturer you are purchasing from, and their reputation and history is always an important part of an informed decision. All of these are the basis of “trust” which is always an important part of any purchase.

If everything involved with the purchase went as expected then of course it has good value but it’s never safe to assume this in the broader market and there are many instances where similar “deals” with other companies (including with Nasafoam) have fallen apart and then the “value” of the purchase isn’t particularly good at all and a transaction that seemed to have great value certainly wasn’t.

None of this is of course about Nature’s Sleep specifically … only about the importance of due diligence and “risk management” in any mattress purchase in general … particularly when it is online.

I hope you have the chance to answer some of the questions from my earlier post or at least let us know which ones you aren’t comfortable answering so that each person can decide on the “value” of a purchase from Nature’s Sleep or any of the other related sites based on the criteria that are most important to them.

I also hope you don’t take any of this personally and understand that these are just legitimate questions that should be asked of any retailer or manufacturer as part of transparency, knowing who you are dealing with, and good research.

Phoenix

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They are legitimate questions. And its unfortunate he chose to respond to a very old post instead of yours, which we’re all waiting for.

Btw, I don’t think he was responding to either of us Phoenix. It seems apparent he’s responding to post #12

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Hi bcsteve,

I think you’re probably right … and I also hope that some of the unanswered questions can be moved into the “answered” column :slight_smile:

Phoenix

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Did anyone end up buying the LivingSocial deal? It says 19 purchased… I hope somebody has feedback from their purchase!

Still hunting…

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I am currently looking to buy a new mattress (feeling very overwhelmed but thankful for all the valuable info this website has provided). I found this company’s website and was interested but wanted to do more research and found this thread. Reading through the posts made me feel skeptical but still considering them, until I read the post about Kijiji Daily Deals. I am VERY wary of daily deals, but I actually worked for Kijiji Daily Deals, as did some of my close friends. I checked with a couple friends to make sure I was remembering right, but the reason they weren’t paid by Kijiji Daily Deals is because they didn’t provide the product. The reason I’m wary of daily deals is not because of the deal companies themselves, but there are a lot of shady companies that don’t provide the service/product and then blame the deal company. Anyway, I just wanted to share this info. Maybe people will end up getting a great mattress from them, but I personally wouldn’t go near them.

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Thanks for your valuable input Tasoz~

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Hi tasoz,

Ditto to Nat’s comments :slight_smile:

I still hope that they will provide more meaningful answers to some of the questions in this thread but in the meantime if I was considering a purchase from them I would be more inclined to make a purchase of one of their mattresses if I was local and that I could test in person in their showroom and take the mattress home that I purchased on the same day I paid for it.

Phoenix

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Hi Tosoz,

Firstly your comments are incorrect,

You said kijiji daily deals didn’t pay me because i didn’t deliver? thats Not True! (i can prove this )

I called off this deal when i realized i was dealing with a Bottom Feeder organization who has no regard for there customers. also
when you sign an agreement with a daily deal site, the Terms of the contract are clearly written. kijiji defaulted on the terms of the agreement ,
i had never dealt with kijiji before, The only mistake i made was ever signing a Deal with Kijiji Daily Deals, but i guess you live and learn.

Cheers
George

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Has anyone out there purchased the living social deal?

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anyone?

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WARNING !!!:

I wanted to add some information that I discovered this morning and add a strong warning for anyone who reads this that http://www.naturessleep.ca/ is a company that it would be a very smart idea to avoid completely.

I talked with George at http://www.latexglobal.com/ (this is their supplier not the George from Nature’s Sleep) this morning and they are about to take legal action because the latex they sent to Nature’s Sleep hasn’t been paid for and they are no longer even picking up the phone when they call to find out where their payment is.

They also made clear that Nature’s Sleep is not authorized to use any of their certifications and that the latex they sent wasn’t organic latex.

I also talked with John Meloche at Living Social and they confirmed that Nature’s Sleep didn’t abide by the conditions of their agreement… Some of the people who purchased their mattress through Living Social had already complained and received a refund and that there is a good possibility that none of them may receive their mattress. They are attempting to contact all the people who purchased through their deal to find out whether they received their order and for anyone who reads this and purchased through Living Social he asked that they call him directly.

EDIT: all questions about this deal can now go through their customer service department here.

For those who have purchased from them directly I would urge you not to accept any delays in delivery (and preferably not to deal with them at all) and if there are any delays to attempt a refund through your credit card.

With their history and the information in this thread it’s clear to me that this is not a company I would suggest doing any business with!

Phoenix

45

Glad I listened to my gut on this one.

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Edit - nevermind, I see from another thread you’ve already talked to Geoff from Sleepys.ca. Carry on :wink:

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I appreciate that, but actually I went with my gut on that one too. I live in Kelowna but decided not to spend my money at that store for various (but perhaps silly) reasons. Actually, its a bit ironic, come to think of it.

See, the “problem” (if we can call it that) was that his website clearly advertises a price match (“or its free” - yeah right) guarantee. I’m a responsible shopper, so I shopped. It was the Nature’s Sleep website that I was asking if he’d match, because it appeared to be an identical product but $600 less (since then and now, that same 10" product is no longer advertised at nature’s sleep, but it was there… I promise). It couldn’t hurt to try, right? Well… Geoff started getting defensive and saying that this “nobody” that he’d never heard of and he was a “fly by night” (and there, of course, is the irony… he was right!) and he uses Chinese latex (how would you know? you haven’t heard of him, right Geoff?), etc etc. But whatever, I can forgive all that. What really rubbed me the wrong way was that he then said, “look, I won’t match it but I’ll give you the very best price I can” and I was like, “great, that’s all I’m asking”… he then proceeded to do a bunch of calculations on his handy calculator before scratching his head for dramatic effect… and promptly giving me a $120 higher quote than he just gave me 2 days before for the same product. Huh? the “best price I can” is higher than the “hey you just walked in” price I just got? That kind of flippant off-the-cuff pricing is something I don’t like. It is very used-car-salesman and I chose to say “no thanks”

However: He WAS right about “George”. He IS very knowledgeable. His prices aren’t THAT bad. And he’s LOCAL. So I’m not at all saying your suggestion is a bad one.

I ended up ordering my bed online from a US retailer and I drove down to Orrovile, WA to pick it up. I saved probably about $750 after accounting for everything but my time. But honestly, considering the 2-3 months of research and frustration I put in leading up to the purchase… obviously my time isn’t worth anything in this regard :slight_smile:

Would I do it again? Yeah, probably. I think I have an identical product to what Geoff was offering at a significant discount… and, well, Geoff’s price flopping annoyed me what can I say? But I’m sure that was more of a personal thing that others really shouldn’t factor in with their decision… it was just me.

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Hi again :slight_smile:

I said it may take me a while but just neglected to get online & actually post, sorry

We did purchase an all latex mattress made in Canada with the Latex being poured over seas but I will get to that in a minute

I have discovered a few places on the way that might interest some people that live near me

In Hamilton the is a manufacturer who has been around for a long time but seems to be missed Online
Their name is CJ Mulholland
They have 2 showrooms with one being the factory or attached to it or something. I visited the other location
Everything they have is made by them, they use local foam & other materials & all the mattresses look great
There are samples on most of the beds of the materials inside the mattresses
They also had a sample of a mattress cut open which showed all the good things you hear about for spring mattresses
like high quality gelfoam, metal side supports on spring frame, stapling of all sections,etc
They only had two basic Latex models, both natural but with a foam base,one tallaly & one dunlop
The best thing about them is that the sales lady was in direct contact with the manufacturer and she knew he would work with me on cost or talk about layers. She was unable to get an immediate response but called me the next day with lots of options

In Cambridge, Ont where Natura is (but is sold) there is a shop set up in “Southworks” now
I believe it is to sell inventory etc.of the original owner(lady said it is run by them)
They had a few on the floor to try of which one was said to be totally natural consisting only wool & latex & cotton (others have foam
What was more interesting is the sales woman was in direct contact with the owner {via txting with immediate response} who was willing to work out deals with me and also custom make a mattress’ for the other person in the store. At the time I had already made my purchase so I cant elaborate, sorry.

I hope this can hepl, especialy those who love a spring mattress, there are options

We bought our mattress in Toronto (at least I call it that :whistle: its actually Mississauga, so we didnt hit the traffic though they are planning a Toronto store…in actual Toronto)

We went to Dormio and talked to John(the owner) for a long time
Well I talked and he stayed well past close to allow me to talk & lay on every bed in the store!
He was really laid back and answered all my questions(even personal ones) without being pushy, just let us do our thing

All the beds were beautiful and clean, though he kept apologizing about the mess ( a few things out of place)
They were not even comareable in comfort to the Latex models i had tried at the other stores.
A lot of the beds had dual sides so you could try so many different ones and also custom make what you need
They are all made locally, as well as some pillows & the beds (I think in Ottawa?) we loved everything especially the pillows
So we had a bigger bill the nessesary but worth it to be a little spoiled

After trying everything and John teaching us what beds might work for our bodies we went with…

Dormio Delight Organic mattress from the Legacy collection

6" Firm
2" medium
and a 3.5"topper with

2"soft
1.5 "wool

my husband can have just about any bed as he is lean with even weight distribution but I am short & hippy so I need some softness, which is ok because he likes softness. We chose this one because we both loved the feel of the topper. We tried another bed with the same “stats” but wasn’t quite the same. It was nice that we can have the same bed so we didnt get a dual though the prices were close, making me think that maybe we were going to actually pay for the bed not just a fad

The one thing about the store was that each mattress had its own price sign. The top price was a little crazy, then the list price, then some had a lower sale price. I liked though that it listed all size prices not just twin or queen, so you could easily visually price compare in the store.

Our bed was listed at 3,198.00 for King size (which is what it is on the website right now)
but John did bring the price down a little for us. Maybe he liked us :wink:
(or maybe he wanted me to go home, or post on Mattress Underground, or he felt bad for my husband,or we bought so many other things) :silly:

I did mention this site and he was familiar with it because you had apparently contacted him & drilled him for over an hour
I loved that!! It made me feel even better about this site! He said there may even be discount options later on?

Since that day my husband and I have been communicating with Steve
emailing stats, informing us about things and arranging delivery

Our bed was made and delivered in the 3 weeks John said it would
All except our pillows(which apparently comes from another manufacturer)
but Steve informed us previous to that asking if we would like the bed now & pillows later or wait and deliver all at once
Our pillows have arrived a little over a week later via Canada Post. Again with a prior email from him

Delivery was on a Saturday morning 10am(said between 9 & 12)
They even apologized for being later than expected
It was a small clean truck and the 2 men were clean and well mannered and smart( coming in to asses before moving anything)
Though I am not convinced they were both professional movers, they managed the packages well and were very nice

So now I have my bed, well it feels like it, as king is huge, I am so happy!
Everytime I sit on my bed I giggle a little, like I have forgotten how comfortable it is.
My husband sleeps like a log & I stay asleep longer, its great
We both agree it smells a little but not in an offensive way, just different. It isnt bothering me anyway

Thank you so much for your help & I hope this helps some others as well

Let me know if you want more informtion
But hopefully Dormio will end up on here along with CJ Mulholland, just because a girls gotta know she made a good choice :kiss: