Latex or Innerspring

I bought a Cal king Tempur-pedic Rhapsody Luxe (2014 model) with the Ergo adjustable base. To review this bed I will say that sleeping hot wasn’t an issue for me number one. However, this mattress has caused me back (upper/ middle and lower) problems, as well as neck problems. Maybe this mattress works for some people (like my 100lb girlfriend, but not for me (6’0" 250LBS). Unfortunately is spent 75% of my trial period working out of town sleeping soundly on every innerspring bed I slept on. (especially the pillow tops) When I finally got a good feel for the bed and decided it wasn’t going to work for me the trial was over. Ive been trying to “grin and bare it” but last night I decided to sleep on the 8 year old innerspring in the guest bedroom and just like that, the pain was all gone this morning.

I am now in the market for another bed. I went into Foam Sweet Foam based on Phoenix’s recommendations. I’ve called down to Escondido Mattress for inquiries on both latex and innerspring. I’ve been back to OCMattress in Laguna Hills where I bought the Tempur-pedic and I just visited Custom Comfort Mattress in Mission Viejo.

Foam Sweet Foam felt like a nice mattress. They are not meant to be flipped, and owner says his mattresses don’t require flipping. I found that I prefer all Talalay 12" (four 3" layers), and I really liked the X-FIrm, Firm, Med, Soft configuration. However, the owner is about my size and he advises against the soft for someone my size. He says he has the X-Firm, Firm, Med, Med all Talalay and he recommends I try that. The good thing is they allow you to change one layer within 30 or 60 days, I don’t recall. These mattresses are one sided and require a flat foundation. If needed, the 4 layers can be flipped around to change the feel. They have a trial period where you can return the mattress for a hefty restocking fee(don’t want to have to do that). Bed requires a platform that can be bought elsewhere as long as it has the require support.

I called Escondido Mattress Factory and a nice older gentlemen by the name of Randy(owner I assume) answered. He answered a lot of my questions. Their mattresses are only 6 or 9" I believe, but they are double sided and can be flipped which he highly recommends. He also said that all Mattresses should be on a box spring to increase the life of the mattress and make it more comfortable. No returns according to Randy, if you buy it, its yours. I couldn’t get an answer on warranty except we will take care of you. He did keep telling me that I could trust him because he’s an old man, and he’s from the “old school”. I told him thats not enough for me at this point.

OCMattress put me on an Aireloom innerspring with a stitched in latex “comfort layer”. The bed felt nice, but I don’t think I would buy anything from there again.

At Custom Comfort Mattress, I laid on two fully latex beds. I believe they were 8 or 9". They were flip-able like Escondidio. One was too firm IMO and the other was too soft. There was a week long gap between trying these beds and Foam Sweet Foam, but I feel like Foam Sweet Foam felt way better. I also tried many firm innerspring beds with comfort layers. They show you the inner workings of their beds with a display. They don’t use much foam layers in the mattress from what I saw, mainly a lot of tufted cotton. I tried some firm innersprings that came with one separate (unstitched) toppers made of mostly latex and a thin layer of soy foam above the latex in a “quilt looking” stitch pattern. These can be flipped on their own and replaced without replacing the innerspring mattress. The thicknesses ranged from 1" to 4" on the toppers from what I could see. The bed that felt the best to me was an innerspring, and had a latex/ soy foam pillow top approx 1-2" thick stitched into both sides of the mattress. The bed felt a lot better to me than the latex beds they had in store and the beds with the single separate pillow top. These beds all came with a wood platform. They do not accept returns from what I understand, but they have something called a 30 or 60 day (i can’t recall) comfort guarantee. If you don’t like it they will pick it up in the morning and modify it that day so you will have it back that evening. From what I hear from other consumers, this has never gone too well for them. You do have to pay extra if you add any material to your desired comfort. Material fees would be a good thing to ask about if I pursue these beds.

The Aireloom, Custom Comfort and FSF mattress (with a separate base purchase) are all pretty comparable in pricing. I am thinking about going and trying each bed again on sunday before I make a final purchase. I have a lot of questions I am asking myself and hopefully I can get a little insight here. I am definitely a WORRIED about foam period, even if it is latex. Will it support me as good as an innerspring? Will it last as long? Which is more likely to form body impressions? If I do well on innerspring in hotels should I just go with what’s proven? I’ve already had to go throughout the trouble of selling the memory foam bed and base and have taken a $2,000 hit in just 5 months on a bed I’ve spent little more than 2 months in. Too many choices and all I want is a good, pain free sleep. HELLLLLP!

Hi mdarnell27,

Just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place I would start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

I’m sorry to hear about your experience with the Tempurpedic Rhapsody. While the Rhapsody uses high quality and durable materials that would be a suitable choice for many people … even in higher weight ranges (see the foam quality guidelines here) … it certainly seems clear that it isn’t a suitable choice for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). As you have discovered … a mattress that can be “perfect” for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on … even if they have a very similar body type. There is more about the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase in post #13 here.

As you probably know … Foam Sweet Foam is one of the members here which means that I think very highly of them and they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. Based on “averages” this would make good sense because a mattress that is too soft for you could lead to back issues similar to what you were experiencing.

Their exchange period is 30 days and their return period is 60 days (see here). There is also more about the different types of foundations or other support systems that most suitable for suitable for different types of mattresses in the foundation post here.

They are also a member here which means that they would also be a recommended choice. There is more about the pros and cons of a two sided mattress in post #3 here.

I would be very cautious with Aireloom because for most people they certainly wouldn’t be the best quality/value choice. At the very least I would make sure you know the specifics of all the layers and components in any of their mattresses you are considering (see this article) so you can identify any weak links in their mattresses and make more meaningful comparisons with other similar mattresses. They may not be particularly transparent about the materials inside their mattresses (see this article).

They also make some very high quality mattresses and are transparent about the materials they use but I would also make some careful “value” comparisons here because they may be in higher budget ranges than other similar mattresses. You can see some thoughts about them in post #2 here and in the Los Angeles list here.

There is more about primary support, secondary support, and pressure relief in post #4 here but any type of materials in the right design can be just as suitable or “supportive” as any other type of materials in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) if the design of the mattress is a good “match” for you. There is more about the many factors that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here and as you will see latex is among the most durable materials that are used in the industry.

You can read more about hotel mattresses in post #3 here. Most of them are just lower quality versions of typical major brand mattresses (which I would avoid … see the guidelines here) and if you do decide that you prefer innerspring/polyfoam mattresses that are typical for hotel mattresses I would make sure that they use much much higher quality and more durable materials than most hotel mattresses.

If you follow the steps in the tutorial post one at a time and take your time with each one you will have the best possible chance of making the best possible choice in terms of suitability, durability, and value.

Phoenix

Phoenix,

Thank you so much for the timely and informative response. I was actually able to visit Flexus today. I hadn’t really considered them because it was a little further for me than some of the other options in Orange County. I am very happy I was able to lay on their mattresses and meet their very polite manager. I must say that neither Flexus nor Foam Sweet Foam haggle you or give you a sales pitch. They really seem confident in their products quality and ability to sell itself. You were also very correct in saying that CCM was priced quite a bit higher than similar mattresses, as I would compare Flexus’ pocket coil mattress with latex to the CCM mattress I liked. Flexus is less than half the price. Flexus said they don’t recommend talalay for the support layers because its too soft. They also said that they recommend the 4 layer mattress for persons over 280 lbs.

I am still torn between latex and innerspring. After laying on the 10" latex in F/F/S, M/M/S, F/F/M, M/M/M configurations as well as the 13" two-sided body print pocket coil mattress with 2" talalay on each side, I was in between the, F/F/S, F/F/M and the coils, leaning more towards the coil feel. I like the FFS plush feel better than FFM, but I am afraid that soft will break down too soon for a guy of my stature based on what Scott FSF told me. I will def be making a purchase this weekend. I am thinking about making 3 stops with my girlfriend so I can get a second opinion. I want to take a final trial on sunday of Custom Comfort, Foam Sweet Foam, and Flexus. I will make my decision then. I still have quite a bit to read from the posts that you recommended and refresh my mind on things to look for when it comes to PPP.

My thoughts now are:

  1. Is latex or coil going to support me better ?
  2. Am I going to enjoy one over the other?
  3. Which will last longer?
  4. Does latex need to be flipped?
  5. Is a soft layer of latex on top going to work for me (6’ 250lbs)?
  6. Is 9" of latex really enough, or should I go with 12?
    7.Is talalay throughout the wrong way to go (too soft)?
  7. Is CCM innerspring with spring edge support and tufted cotton going to be better than flexus individual wrapped coil with 1.5 foam edge support? Even if it is better is it really worth twice the price?? I think I can answer that one myself. Will the Flexus mattress hold up as well with one from CCM that has tufted cotton, with latex and only a small layer of soy foam for comfort on top of the latex. From what I understand, Flexus uses soy foam, the springs, and the latex, but I don’t know how thick the foam layer is. There is no returns or exchanges for the coils unlike the latex.

I do like the fact that everything in Flexus’ mattresses is natural.

I know you are busy, and have a life. I appreciate your time thus far. If you have any comments I appreciate it. If not, I understand.

Thanks,
Mike

Hi mdarnell27,

Only your own careful testing and personal preferences can answer questions about PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) because you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress (see post #2 here).

I would need to know more about the specifics of each mattress you are considering (see this article) because durability will depend on the specifics of each mattress you are comparing but the post I linked in the previous reply has more information about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to each person. In most cases it’s the top 3" to 6" of a mattress that will be the weakest link of a mattress … not the support layers or components … so while latex may be more durable than an innerspring “in theory” … in practical terms both can make very durable support components and it’s the layers above the innerspring or the latex support core that would generally be the weakest link in a mattress not the innerspring or the support core itself so I would make the choice between them a preference choice rather than a “better/worse” choice.

That depends on whether the latex is in a one sided mattress or a two sided mattress. If you buy a two sided mattress of any kind (with latex or otherwise) then it would be a good idea to flip and rotate it on a regular basis. If you buy a one sided mattress then all you can do is rotate it (see post #2 here). There is also more about the pros and cons of two sided mattresses in post #3 here.

There is more information in post #3 here that has more information about choosing a mattress for higher higher weight ranges but in general terms higher weights will tend to do better with firmer layers that those in lower weight ranges and I would be cautious with comfort layers that are too thick or soft because they will be less durable and could also be more risky in terms of alignment issues which can lead to lower back pain or discomfort.

This is another question that your own careful testing would tell you more than any suggestions I could make. While you probably don’t “need” more than 9" of latex … you may find you prefer it. There is more about thicker mattresses in post #14 here.

Talalay latex (and Dunlop for that matter) comes in a very wide range of firmness levels from ultra soft to extra firm so this would depend on the specific firmness of the Talalay layers (or any other type of material that comes in a range of firmness levels) and whether the design of the mattress was a good match for you in terms of PPP.

There is more about edge support for innersprings in post #2 here. Other than the edge support though, I would need to know the specifics of each mattress to make any more meaningful comments about them. One of the posts I linked earlier (post #13 here) has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

Phoenix

Phoenix,

I just got back from Custom Comfort Mattress and boy was that an upsetting visit. I told my salesman I had been by Flexus and really liked their mattress. The salesman immediately went and pulled their bed up online and basically told me I wasn’t comparing apples to apples because the bed I was considering of theirs was far superior.

Flexus mattress:

13" Double Sided Flipable Mattress
Body Print® Tri-Zone Pocket Coil Technology
Body Print Mattress is offered in Firm and Medium comfort levels
1.5 lb Certi-PUR Soy Based Foam Encased Edge Support for Added Stability
Center third lumbard support
1.5 lb Certi-PUR Soy Based Foam cushioning material (Choose your firmness)
2" Talalay Lataex comfort layer (Choose your firmness)
1" Organic Cotton and Natural Wool Quilted cover.

He said the the pocket coils were far inferior to their single coils with a steel grid on top. He said that a steel foundation is far better than wood because wood makes noise. He said the foam encased edge was far inferior to their spring supported edge. He said the 1.5lb certi-pur foam was far inferior to the 4 layers of hand tufted cotton they used in their mattress. He also went on to say that I shouldn’t do so much research and I’m just clouding my mind as to what a good mattress is. I should go for my gut feeling. He said it would take years of research for me to learn enough about mattresses to put this kind of thought into buying one. He said online reviews are not reliable because there are too many opinions and no facts. He said hand tufted cotton is the absolute best material for the top of an innerspring. He also said the Flexus mattress would not last me more than 4 years and his would last 10-15 years easy. He then started to show me cheaper beds that “compared better” to the Flexus mattress, but I still think that those mattresses would cost more. The funny thing is they sell beds with a lot of the materials he was bad mouthing.

I spoke to Henry at Flexus, I believe he said on top of the pocket coils is 1" of the 1.5 lb foam with a 58 ILD and then it is topped with 2" of talalay 28 ILD and the has the 1" cover.

I liked the way the bed at Flexus felt, but some of the stuff that this salesman at CCM said got me second guessing. Flexus mattress retails for around $1,900 for the set.

The two sided mattress at CCM was around $4,000 and it had inner coils with a steel grid on top.Then it had a cotton pad with 4 layers of hand tufted cotton. On top of that was 2-1/2" of medium talalay latex (can be made thicker for a cost, firmness can be changed) On top of the latex the bed had 1" of foam quilting incased in wool. They also had beds that had no pillow top, but you can add a individual latex topper.

I did think I liked the fact that at Flexus, there was no foam in the quilting so you were laying right on top of latex. Should I be concerned about the Flexus’ quality like this salesman said? Or am I correct in the fact that he was grasping for air? $2,200 seems like a lot more to pay for some of these “superiorities” that this CCM salesman claims his bed has. Another things is Custom Comfort will give you 90 days to exchange a layer or add material etc. Flexus has no warranty. Just some info on the mattresses for you. I am reading all the links. It’s a lot of info, trying to take it all in for my purchase. FYI just to give some justice to CCM as a company, I spoke on the phone to another salesman and he did not back up much of what the other guy was saying. He said the bed I was looking at sounded like a great bed for a good price.

Thanks,
Mike

Also, one guy at CCM compared asking how long the coils will last to shopping for a truck and asking how long the frame will last. It will outlast the whole truck. funny

Hi mdarnell27,

Some of what the salesperson at Custom Comfort was true and some wasn’t but overall I would call it “mostly salesmanship” and “fairly misleading”.

To start with … post #13 here that I linked previously has more information about the most important parts of the "value’ of a mattress purchase that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses. As you can see … the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is how well it matches your body type, sleeping positions, and preferences in terms of PPP and how well you are likely to sleep on the mattress. You are the only one that can decide this.

The next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is the durability of the materials and how long you are likely to sleep well. As you can see in the guidelines here there are no obvious weak links in the specs of the Flexus mattress you listed.

There are no obvious weak links in this mattress either and they both use latex and a thin layer of polyfoam over the innerspring (although in a different order) so the layers that are most subject to softening and breakdown would be similar. The Custom Comfort uses the tufted cotton to create additional softness (and cotton is a durable material) while the pocket coil in the Flexus would create additional softness and contouring under the latex and polyfoam layers. Both of them are two sided which would add to their durability.

I’m not sure where the price comes from because the set lists for $1690 on their site (unless you are including tax) but I always make “mattress only” to “mattress only” comparisons so that you aren’t including a variable (the foundation) that makes meaningful comparisons between the mattresses themselves much more difficult so the price I would be using for comparison purposes would be the king size “mattress only” price of $1400.

There is more about the different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here. Their “linked springs” may be “stronger” but the innerspring of a mattress isn’t generally the weak link of a mattress anyway and a pocket coil can transfer less motion between sleepers than innersprings that use helical wires to join the springs together so which type of spring would be “better” for any particular person would depend on the overall design of the mattress and someone’s specific criteria and preferences (better how and better for who?). The type of innerspring or a mattress that uses one type vs another that would be better for any particular person would be a matter of preference.

Neither one should be noisy if they are good quality but this really doesn’t factor in to the relative value of the mattress because you could always purchase either one if you wished to for either mattress. A box spring with springs inside it can affect the feel and performance of a mattress and can be an important part of the feel and performance of a sleeping system (the mattress would feel differently with a rigid non flexing foundation) but a box spring (with springs) is generally more suitable for an innerspring that has helical coils so it can act as a shock absorber for the innerspring than it would be for a pocket coil mattress.

As you can see in post #2 here about edge support for innersprings … I would agree with this.

Again … inferior in what way? If there is only an inch of 1.5 lb polyfoam in a two sided mattress then it wouldn’t be a weak link in terms of durability and the only other way it could be “inferior” would be based on the feel and performance of the mattress which is part of PPP which you can “feel”. Again … the cotton is a high quality material that adds to the cost of a mattress but you are the only one that can decide which mattress is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP.

I mentioned the same thing in my last post as well so to some degree I agree with him here. Too little information or “analysis” can lead to some poor choices but too much information or analysis can also lead to information overload and can also lead to making less suitable choices or making choices for the wrong reasons as well. You may be overcomplicating your research.

Again … it’s certainly a good quality material and hand tufting is also a great way to use natural fibers in a mattress (and adds to the cost of making the mattress) but it would only be “better” for someone that preferred how the mattress that uses it feels and performs.

The weakest link of a mattress is generally in the layers above the innerspring and Flexus uses latex (which theirs does as well) which is a very durable material and is also two sided (which theirs is as well) which can add to the durability of any mattress (see post #3 here) so this is just a salesperson trying to make a sale by putting down their competition with misleading or exaggerated information. While I would probably give the CCM the edge in terms of overall durability … the difference wouldn’t be nearly as significant as they were indicating and it would be reasonable to expect the Flexus to last for 10+ years. Once you are past a decade then the limiting factor in the durability of a mattress is often the changing needs and preferences of the person sleeping on it and any additional time after this would be “bonus time” anyway so the CCM may have more “bonus time” than the Flexus but you would need to decide whether this would be worth the significant price difference between them.

The options you have after a purchase would also be part of each person’s personal value equation and would be part of the “value” of any mattress purchase as well.

This is also true and for the most part the innerspring of a mattress isn’t the weakest link in terms of durability.

Overall you are looking at two high quality mattresses and while the CCM certainly uses materials and components (such as the cotton and the box spring) that would be more costly than the materials in the Flexus and uses more time consuming and costly construction methods (such as inner tufting) and may even have some edge in terms of durability or “bonus time” (although this is impossible to quantify) … only you can decide whether any of these or any of the other differences between each mattress purchase that are important to you would justify the significantly higher cost.

I would certainly choose either of these over most of the mainstream mattresses that most people end up buying.

Phoenix

Wow, you have been enormously helpful. I don’t mean to over analyze the situation, but after losing almost $2,500 in 3 months on that tempur-pedic really has me feeling gun-shy. Thank you very much for your help, and references!

Happen to stumble upon a sales pitch demo on YouTube for CCM. See link below:

If you think about what the CCM salesman says, and you currently have a DIY mattress that you can swap out the foam with, having the craftmanship of a CCM mattress is just a luxury. They STILL use a latex topper on top. He points out that the “coils” are not the weak link in the mattress construction, it’s the foam that’s the culprit. I believe we all know that. My advise is if you are a DIY-selfer, buying a mattress from CCM would be just a luxury buy. Also, they only have a 356 day mattress comfort guarantee NO RETURNS! I have no idea what their warranty is either because in their FAQ’s there is only a reference to a tag on the product that includes the warranty code (?).