Latex questions

[phoenix]

Hi tamaracks,

PLB’s retailer locator is not currently available online, and I didn’t get a response from an email I sent to them.

With some of the issues that have been involved with their chapter 11 bankruptcy they have probably lost some retailers so they may have decided to take it down so they can update it. It’s unfortunate though especially if they aren’t replying to emails in a timely way.

[quote]One thing I regret is that I was trying to find a combination that might work for side and stomach sleeping with the Obasan, but after I left, I thought maybe I should have tried focusing on just side sleeping also to see how that worked out.

I’m having trouble defining my sleep style accurately (not that I think you can define it for me, but maybe you have some feedback on my thought process). I’ve never had a mattress I picked out just for me. About 12 years ago, I moved in with my now husband, and ever since we’ve been sleeping on the innerspring mattress that he had bought prior to that. I’ve liked sleeping on my stomach because of the coziness (I think even before moving in with my husband), but also because I think the mattresses I’ve had have not supported me well on my side, so I end up not being fully comfortable in either position, thus switching back and forth. More recently in our time with the innerspring, I’d been stomach sleeping less both because the pressure on my knee would bother me and because the support of the lower back was becoming worse. I am not sure how much of the knee issue was due to my knee getting old and how much was due to the mattress breaking down.

We did in-home trials of both the Sleep Number and the Casper, and with those I haven’t been stomach sleeping at all, because they are too soft for my lower back. At this point, in the last several months I think I’ve been sleeping on my side pretty much all the time, turning from one side to the other.[/quote]

If you find it relatively easy to avoid stomach sleeping then that can be a good idea because stomach sleeping is a much more risky sleeping position than either back or side sleeping. It’s also more challenging to find a mattress that provides good pressure relief for side sleeping without being too soft for stomach sleeping since the two sleeping positions have almost opposite requirements. Stomach sleepers generally need a thinner and firmer comfort layer to prevent their pelvis from sinking down too far and sleeping is a swayback position (which can lead to lower back pain and discomfort) while side sleepers generally need thicker/softer comfort layers so that their pressure points (hips and shoulders) can sink into the mattress more deeply to provide the pressure relief that they need. When you need to make a compromise between these two sleeping positions then it’s generally best to choose a mattress that is “just barely soft enough” to relieve pressure points for side sleeping so that there is less risk to alignment in your other sleeping positions … especially your stomach. Firmer zones under the heavier parts of your body can also be helpful for combination stomach/side sleepers.

I do have some questions the differences between Talalay/Dunlop and synthetic/natural. From what you’ve said, I know it’s mostly a personal preference, but I’m just trying to clarify what I’ve read to see if I’ve assimilated it correctly, especially since Flobeds is only Talalay.

I’m not sure if you’ve read this but there is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and there is more about the differences between the “feel” of Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here.

[quote]1. Talalay is often a synthetic/natural blend, in that 100% Talalay
wasn’t available until more recently, but it sounds like that’s not necessarily a disadvantage. There isn’t a strong body of evidence for durability one way or the other.[/quote]

100% natural Talalay may be a little less durable in softer ILD’s but would probably be similar in terms of durability in higher ILD’s. There is more about 100% natural talalay vs blended Talalay in post #2 here. I would also keep in mind that all latex will be a durable material compared to other types of foam (polyfoam and memory foam)

2. If it’s not explicitly stated as 100% natural Talalay by the manufacturer, then most likely it’s some sort of blend.

This is probably a “safe” assumption in “most” cases but part of good research is to make sure you can find out the type and quality of all the layers in a mattress which in the case of latex means the type and blend (see this article) so that you don’t have to make any assumptions in the first place.

The Savvy Rest topper seems like it would be 100% natural?

Yes … Savvy Rest uses either organic Dunlop or 100% natural Talalay (made by Radium).

Also, the retailer had three toppers on display, one was labeled organic, so that might have been 100% natural, one was labeled InteLa-tec, which as far as I can tell is a blend (unless it’s all synthetic? Is that done?), and the other was labeled Active Fusion, which seems to be their temperature-regulating version of latex.

The InteLa-tec is a new latex formulation that has only been available for a few weeks. It’s made from 100% synthetic Talalay latex.

The only organic latex would be 100% natural Dunlop.

Active Fusion is blended Talalay latex that has phase change gel added to the formula. There is more about what Latex International calls Talalay GL fast response and PLB calls Active Fusion) in post #5 here and post #2 here.

[quote]3. Dunlop is often regarded as firmer feeling than Talalay at the same ILDs.
4. Talalay has a somewhat different compression response than Dunlop?[/quote]

Dunlop gets firmer faster than Talalay when you compress it more deeply but it would depend on how deeply the layers were compressed. If both layers were the same thickness and ILD and they were both compressed 25% (which is where the ILD measurement is taken) then they would feel about the same. If each layer was compressed more deeply than 25% then the Dunlop would feel firmer for most people. If each layer was compressed less than 25% then the Dunlop may feel softer than the Talalay. Since most top layers are compressed more than 25% … if all the other factors were equal then the Dunlop would tend to feel firmer.

Are there any drawbacks related to higher weight individuals with Talalay (i.e. durability or support) as opposed to Dunlop? Or is it just a matter of choosing the correct firmness (and the personal preference factor of course). Mainly, I’m just trying to figure out if there are any obvious gotchas lurking if we go with Flobeds.

It would be a matter of choosing the most suitable combination of layers in terms of thickess and firmness for each person and wouldn’t be an issue of the type of latex which is strictly a preference choice.

It’s hard to say without testing the exact mattress, but at this point, we’ve tried some Talalay that we liked, so I think there’s at least a good chance that it could work out for us preference-wise. We haven’t done the most thorough job at alignment testing. I don’t have the best confidence in my testing abilities in general, and I feel kind of awkward in stores, but that’s where a return policy/comfort exchange comes in handy.

There is more about the different ways to choose a mattress and how to lessen the risks involved with each of them in post #2 here but if for any reason you aren’t confident that the choice you make will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then the exchange or return policy and all the options you have after a purchase would become a more important part of the “value” of a purchase.

I really do feel more comfortable having a return policy versus the local retailers where often you can only exchange for another product they sell or do a comfort exchange on layers (i.e. Savvy and Obasan). While I believe we’ve tried enough latex at this point that I really think it could work for us, there’s still that element of the unknown. The Flobeds comfort guarantee (I know it’s not an exchange because you keep the old piece) is more expensive on their cores than some other manufacturers would be in the short term after purchase, but it does extend longer. Additionally, the vZone model adds a big advantage because they will send you free sections for the vZone in the first 100 days and only $20 in the next five years. That gives a lot of flexibility to adjust after purchase without too much extra cash outlay (unless of course one of the full cores turns out to be the issue).

I think that you have a good handle on all the pros and cons involved “in theory” so I think a more detailed conversation would be the next step in the process.

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding … and of course any other questions or comments you may have along the way.

Phoenix