Latex topper on memory foam mattress

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hello,

I just joined the site and have been reading Phoenix’s detailed responses to other members’ posts. Very insightful!

I’m having a problem with my current bed. I bought a Sealy memory foam mattress and box spring last year (Comfort series Bay Island, 6" foam core and 2" comfort layer) and I am not liking it. Ever since I got it, I can’t seem to get a full night of sleep on it and wake up in the morning with a sore back and sides. Then I can’t get back into a comfortable position to fall back asleep. I also often wake up on my back even though I tend to be a side sleeper.

If I lay down on my back, my lower back starts to hurt within minutes (a friend told me the same thing recently when I asked her to lay down on it and give me her opinion). I know it’s a problem with the bed, because if I sleep at a hotel or friend’s house, I don’t have these issues). Based on my experience with this bed and a memory foam topper I used with a previous bed, I’m pretty sure memory foam doesn’t suit me.

I have a couple of latex pillows, which are great, so now I’m wondering if I should go the latex route. Today I laid on a Savvy Rest latex mattress at a local store (I live in Minneapolis), and I loved it. I looked online and found there were more affordable options, but before I decide to buy yet another bed I’m wondering if getting a latex topper instead is feasible.

My question to anyone reading this is, have any of you slept on a memory foam mattress with a latex topper before? I’ve heard of people doing it the other way around (memory foam on top of latex), but I don’t know anyone who has used a latex topper on memory foam. If getting a topper isn’t going to make a substantial difference/fix my problem, maybe I should just go straight to getting a new mattress.

Any comments are appreciated!

Thank you.

2

Hi Chad,

The first step would be to identify whether your mattress is too soft or too firm and the underlying cause of your “symptoms”. Both of these can lead to alignment issues that can lead to back discomfort and pain when you wake in the morning or during the night. You can see examples here of how a mattress that is too soft or too firm can both lead to alignment issues although too soft is a more common source of lower back issues (if that’s the location of your back pain). It may be helpful if you can describe the location of your back pain.

If the mattress is too firm then there would also likely be pressure point issues as well particularly on your shoulders or other pressure points.

If your mattress is too firm and there are no soft spots, impressions, or hills and valleys in the mattress … then a topper can be an effective solution for adding extra pressure relief/comfort and the topper guidelines in post #2 here and the posts it links to can be a useful guideline.

If the mattress is too soft then “fixing” it would be much more difficult and would normally involve removing layers and replacing them with thinner or firmer versions rather than adding to them. Post #4 here has a few suggestions that can be partially or temporarily successful with a mattress that is either too soft or has developed some sagging or soft spots but these are not what I would consider long term solutions and it’s much more difficult to “fix” a mattress that is too soft than one that is too firm.

I personally like relatively thin layers of latex over relatively thin layers of memory foam because it can provide a more resilient and “movement friendly” surface feel and performance to the mattress while at the same time you can feel yourself more slowly sinking into the softer memory foam underneath. The latex would isolate the memory from your body heat to some extent so it would respond more slowly and/or be firmer than if you were sleeping directly on the memory foam. This can create a very interesting “feel” that some people like.

In most cases … it’s not the material itself that leads to back issues but the design of the mattress and how well that specific design and combination of materials works for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Materials are usually a preference choice and while it’s true that different people have some strong preferences for and against any material … in most cases any material in the right design can provide good alignment if the design is suitable for your body type and sleeping style.

Hope this helps … and the first step would be to identify whether the underlying cause of your symptoms are too much softness and thickness in the upper layers of your mattress or a support layer that is too soft (which can both lead to your pelvis or hips sinking down too far) or whether the issue is a mattress that is too firm either from comfort layers that may be too thin to isolate you from the firmness of the support layer possibly in combination with a support layer that is too firm and you are not sinking in enough to fill in the recessed gap in your sleeping profile (usually the waist or small of the back) or your shoulders are not sinking in enough which can also cause alignment issues and possible twisting away from pressure which can also lead to back discomfort or pain.

Phoenix

3

Hello Phoenix,

Thank you very much for the quick and thorough response!

The mattress doesn’t have any impressions in it, but the very center of the bed has a noticeable soft spot and my hips are definitely sinking too far into the mattress when I lay on it, causing lower back pain/alignment issues (if I were to go lay on the floor the torqued feeling in my spine would immediately disappear). Sometimes I feel pain from pressure in my shoulder(s) in the morning, but I don’t mind that so much. I now run my AC at night and the mattress feels a bit firmer due to the coolness of the room. I feel less uncomfortable at night, but I still wake up after six and a half hours or so (on average) from being uncomfortable (specifically that my hips are too low, my back doesn’t feel straight, and my sides are sore seemingly from pressure acting more against my sides but not supporting my hips, if that makes any sense).

I generally prefer softer beds. I had a cheap King Koil bed that I used to sleep on (it was meant to be used as a guest bed, I think) up until almost two years ago. It lasted about four years, and it was definitely not a firm mattress. It was great until the last month, though, when I started to wake up from a sore back, with more severe pain than I’ve experienced with any subsequent bed. When I upgraded to higher quality inner spring mattresses I found that they were too firm (unfortunately, adding a Therapedic 3" memory foam topper to one gave me similar problems to what I’m currently experiencing, as did a Sealy pillowtop), so I returned them, eventually settling on my current bed. It felt fine in the store, but sleeping on it overnight was a different story.

My friend has a decent 4" futon on a nice slatted wood foundation that I sleep on when I visit him, but it’s a bit firmer than I would prefer. I always get a full night sleep on it though and aside from feeling a little pain in my shoulders and hips in the morning (not enough to complain about), my back always feels excellent the following morning.

I tried out a Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme in a Slumberland recently and it felt nice, soft, and luxurious, but the fact that it’s still not movement-friendly, if you will, is kind of a turnoff for me. It was clearly a much higher quality memory foam than what I’ve slept on before, and I’m still enamored with the idea of a foam core (for durability, among other things), but I prefer the resilience/buoyancy of latex (and the headaches I had after sleeping on memory foam and the pillowtop went away after I got a latex pillow). I know it’s a matter of personal preference, but I’ve come to dislike that “sinking feeling” (my body doesn’t feel like it’s in the same position as when I first lay down).

The way you described a thin layer of latex over a thin layer of memory foam sounds kind of appealing. I think the foam core of my current mattress is “firm” (the comfort level of the bed was described as “cushion firm”), and adding another soft layer on top of that might be nice, but I’m worried that it wouldn’t be enough to offset that soft spot in the middle of the bed.

I tried out OMF’s Latex and Latex Supreme mattresses in their store, and thought the regular latex mattress was perhaps just slightly too firm, but I noticed a dip in the middle of the softer Latex Supreme when I laid on it (I expect it’s because of the 3"-4" of comfort foam being on both sides of the mattress). Of the several configurations of the Savvy Rest Serenity that I laid on, I definitely found the 3" soft natural Talalay top layer, 3" medium Dunlop middle layer, and 3" firm Dunlop bottom layer to be most comfortable. I felt it had the perfect amount of cushion, yet I felt I was laying sufficiently straight and had an appropriate amount of support.

That’s pretty much been my entire experience so far. I apologize if I digressed too much. But I think I’ve identified all the issues and concerns I have. Any thoughts?

Thanks again!

Chad

4

Chad,

I noticed you are from Minneapolis. If you are willing to drive to Nisswa there is a new mattress store that has a great selection and a helpful salesperson. Lazy Brook has a latex topper floor model and so you could try it in the store on a memory foam bed. I tried it on a firmer latex bed to see if I wanted a topper on a firmer bed or if I wanted a softer bed. It was so nice to compare so many beds side by side instead of driving across town. We made a day trip of it and ended up having a great time. It was such relief to finally make a decision. I think Gabberts has a floor model Latex topper as well.

5

Thanks for the suggestions, Wavycat! I will give Gabberts a call.

If I may ask, did you end up getting the topper at Lazy Brook, or getting a softer bed instead?

6

I needed a whole new mattress and was testing the topper on a firmer new mattress. I ended up buying the softer new mattress because my hip sunk too far into the topper. The mattresses I was looking at were the Natural and the Pamper. I ended up buying the Natural. They have the Natural at Gabbert’s as well. Gabberts also has the Beautiful and The Worlds Best Bed. And like I said I think they have the topper. Lazy Brook had several more models of PLB well as many gel beds.

7

Hi Chad,

Unfortunately this is all too common with major brand mattresses that use lower density foams and develop soft spots (or “virtual” impressions) even though there are no visible impressions when you are off the mattress. My guess is that the memory foam and the base layer may both be fairly low density which leads to more rapid softening (without actual impressions so this isn’t a warranty issue).

It’s also quite possible that you mattress is not suitable for side sleeping for you because if the support core is too firm then with only 2" of memory foam you would likely “go through” it and the firmer foam underneath it could create pressure points on your side. In other words … you could have two separate issues … one with the original design of the mattress which has comfort layers which are too thin for you and one with foam softening which leads to alignment issues on your back

A topper can be an effective solution for a mattress (or a futon) that is too firm if you need some extra pressure relief on your side but it’s not generally an effective solution for a mattress that has developed soft spots because the topper will just follow the soft spots underneath it and can even make the problem worse (your heavier pelvis could sink down even further before it reached the firmer support core).

If the softening is very slight then a topper may work or at least “hide” the symptoms for a while until the foam underneath it softens further (although the topper can slow this process down).

As a stopgap measure you could turn the mattress over and add a slightly thicker topper to the other side using the topper guidelines.

A 3x3" latex mattress with soft talalay on top and medium and firm Dunlop in the bottom two layers is a configuration that works well for a fairly wide range of people and of course there are many other configurations that can match your needs and preferences in terms of PPP as well. Post #2 here has more about making comfort and design choices.

The choice of material is strictly a personal preference but no matter what materials you prefer in a mattress or which design works best for you … it’s important to make sure that the quality is high enough that early foam softening and the loss of comfort and/or support that goes with it isn’t likely to be an issue…

Phoenix

8

Ah, got it. If you can find the perfect new bed without needing an additional topper, that’s the way to go!

Unfortunately, when I called Gabberts they said they don’t carry latex toppers. Oh well.

Well, that may be to their detriment as I will likely avoid the big “S” brands from here on out. On the bright side, it’s been a learning experience. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you for the additional link and suggestions!

Chad

9

Hi Phoenix,

I wondered if you know of any brands that mfg a mattress with thin latex over thin memory foam? I was re-reading your post & how you like that combination / feel yourself. Is that a DIY mattress combo option only or does someone make mattresses with that design?

Thank you as always!

10

Hi SleeplessinDallas,

Most of the major manufacturers (first and second tier) make mattresses with a combination of latex and memory foam and it’s an increasingly popular combination (see the comments here about some of the latex/gel memory foam introductions at the last Las Vegas show). Of course the specific design is always the most important part and I would think that most of them will be gel over latex rather than the other way around and I don’t know of any off the top of my head that have the latex over the gel. I’ve seen some in my local research from time to time but I don’t keep records of specific combinations because they are always changing. Some local manufacturers that do custom builds may also be able to build a mattress like this but it’s the specifics of the design that would make it work well as much as the combination of materials.

Phoenix