I apologize in advance for the length of this post. It’d be difficult to put together a TL;DR version, so sorry.
Our current setup is a 7 year old Simmons Beautyrest in Firm, with as thin of a pillowtop as you can have. We both sleep really well on it, and it’s very comfortable, but my wife has been researching a lot on plastics/flame retardants/how we’re all going to get cancer and die, and with a new kiddo, we’re trying to eliminate as much of that stuff as possible. Her brother is also getting married in a couple weeks, and they don’t have a mattress/can’t afford one, so the timing was a bit serendipitous for us to find a new mattress.
Through my research (mostly here, great site!), I settled on an organic latex mattress, organic wool/cotton cover, as well as OEKO-TEX certified. Personally, I think the OEKO-TEX certification is more important, since it means there’s nothing nasty in there at the end of the manufacturing process, but the organically grown stuff is better for the environment so ¯_(ツ)_/¯.
We did some extensive testing at a local SavvyRest dealer in Bellevue, WA (The Sleep Store, Lillian and her daughter Ella are EXTREMELY helpful and knowledgeable, and I cannot recommend them enough), and narrowed down the setups that felt the best for us, based on recommendations we found online and with Lillian/Ella’s help.
For reference, my specs are 215 lbs, 6’5", side sleeper (with back being secondary), and my wife is 140 lbs, 5’8", we think she’s mostly a ¾ prone sleeper, but can be on her side too. We both prefer firm feel, but want to make sure we’re getting the support we need.
We ended up with one setup being M/S/F (all Talalay) and the other M/M/F (all Dunlop). I preferred Dunlop (didn’t like the “bounciness” in Talalay), but I didn’t want them to have to COMPLETELY change the setup to have both options all Dunlop. Anywho, with the Talalay M/S/F, my hip sunk in a touch too much, while on the Dunlop M/M/F, my shoulder stuck up a touch too much, and I felt an occasional pressure on my shoulder (comparable to what I’ll occasionally feel on my current mattress, but definitely not uncomfortable/painful. We also tried the Dunlop M/M/F with a Holy Lamb Deep Sleep Quilted Wool topper (2" thick).
We also did some testing the previous weekend at Soaring Heart in Seattle, and of their available configurations, we liked the firm latex base, with their thinner organic wool topper (I think it’s 2" thick).
My first question is, would a M/S/F (all Dunlop) be a good balance between the two options at SavvyRest? We didn’t get a chance to extensively test that configuration like the other two (they already stayed 45 minutes past closing to help us out).
My second question is how would I map those layers to SleepEZ? I would love to purchase from The Sleep Store (they’ve been such a huge help), but even with their 20% off BF/CM special, it was still over $1k more than SleepEZ (excluding sales tax), which is just too much of a price difference to stomach for what is essentially the same mattress. I’ve read elsewhere in the forum that you can essentially map them directly, and that ILD’s are essentially meaningless, (here it comes) BUT from the #’s I’ve seen for SavvyRest, their ILD’s are spread over pretty wide ranges, while with SleepEZ they’re a little more dialed in, which leads to…
Question the third: IN THEORY, since SleepEZ’s Medium range (30-32) is at the bottom of SavvyRest’s Medium (30-40), and SleepEZ’s Firm is near the top (37-40), should the SleepEZ in M/M/F (Dunlop) be a touch softer than the SavvyRest in the same? I don’t think I’ll really be able to decide between the M/M/F vs M/S/F without prolonged testing, so should I start with the M/M/F, since they tend to soften up slightly with use? My wife ended up kind of between both too, so should we just get M/M/F on one side and M/S/F on the other side, and see how it goes? She also wanted to possibly try out S/F/M, do you think that would work for her body/sleep type? I think there’s more than one question here?
My fourth (and final) question relates to the topper. I liked the enveloping feeling of the wool topper, and also how it didn’t soften things up too much. Do you feel the topper would be the touch softer I might need to get that slight bit of pressure of my shoulder on the M/M/F? I know there’s a fair bit of subjectivity in that question, but generally speaking. Should we try to have the mattress dialed in before we add a topper, or get them both at the same time, and do slight adjustments to the mattress if needed?
[quote]For reference, my specs are 215 lbs, 6’5", side sleeper (with back being secondary), and my wife is 140 lbs, 5’8", we think she’s mostly a ¾ prone sleeper, but can be on her side too. We both prefer firm feel, but want to make sure we’re getting the support we need.
We ended up with one setup being M/S/F (all Talalay) and the other M/M/F (all Dunlop). I preferred Dunlop (didn’t like the “bounciness” in Talalay), but I didn’t want them to have to COMPLETELY change the setup to have both options all Dunlop. Anywho, with the Talalay M/S/F, my hip sunk in a touch too much, while on the Dunlop M/M/F, my shoulder stuck up a touch too much, and I felt an occasional pressure on my shoulder (comparable to what I’ll occasionally feel on my current mattress, but definitely not uncomfortable/painful. We also tried the Dunlop M/M/F with a Holy Lamb Deep Sleep Quilted Wool topper (2" thick).
We also did some testing the previous weekend at Soaring Heart in Seattle, and of their available configurations, we liked the firm latex base, with their thinner organic wool topper (I think it’s 2" thick).
My first question is, would a M/S/F (all Dunlop) be a good balance between the two options at SavvyRest? We didn’t get a chance to extensively test that configuration like the other two (they already stayed 45 minutes past closing to help us out).[/quote]
While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … I don’t make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
I’m assuming that you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).
While your own careful testing or personal experience is the only way to know for certain whether any mattress or combination of layers and components is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP … when you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with including Savvy Rest) than anyone else.
There is also more about how Savvy Rest compares to SleepEz in post #4 here and a forum search on Savvy Rest SleepEZ (you can just click the link) will bring up all the forum posts that mention both of them as well.
Again … the only two reliable ways to choose would be based on either your own local testing or on a more detailed conversation with an online retailer or manufacturer who will be more familiar with “matching” their own mattresses and layer combinations to different body types and sleeping positions or to other mattresses that they are familar with than anyone else. I would also keep in mind that the ILD range for the Savvy Rest mattress is just a very broad approximation and doesn’t reflect the specific ILD range of their layers because they don’t supply the specifics of the ILD range for the layers that are in their mattresses (actual ILD ranges for latex layers aren’t as wide as the ILD’s that they list). In other words their soft, medium, or firm layers could be a little softer or firmer than the equivalent layers in a SleepEZ mattress.
Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover) will have an effect on the feel and performance of every other layer and component above and below it and ILD is only one of several variables or “specs” that will determine how soft or firm an individual layer or a mattress “as a whole” will feel to different people (see post #4 here). In addition to this the ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex also aren’t always directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here) so using the ILD of a particular layer or combination of layers as a reliable indication of how any mattress will “feel” or how firm will feel to you compared to another mattress with a different combination of layers can be more misleading than helpful.
Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and specs and different layering combinations and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you (which would only be a very small percentage of people) … I would tend to avoid using individual specs such as layer thicknesses or ILD numbers or other complex combinations of information or specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you or how it will compare to another mattress and focus more on your own actual testing and/or personal experience. While knowing the specs that can affect the quality and durability of the layers and components in a mattress is always important … when you try and choose or compare a mattress based on complex combinations of “comfort” specs that you may not fully understand then the most common outcome can often be “information overload” and “paralysis by analysis”.
There are always tradeoffs involved in any mattress or topper choice that are primarily preference choices not “better/worse” choices. There is more information about wool toppers and how they compare to various foam toppers (at least in very general terms) in post #8 here and in posts #3 and #6 here and there are some additional comments about wool toppers and a list of some of the better sources I’m aware of in post #3 here but again the only way to know how any combination of materials or components will feel for you will be based on your own careful testing or your personal experience.
If you are undecided or aren’t sure whether you prefer the “feel” of sleeping on a wool topper or not I would probably tend to choose the mattress first and then decide whether to add a wool topper (or the type and thickness of a wool topper) based on your actual sleeping experience on the mattress.
I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress relative to your weight that you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether anyone else would have the same criteria or circumstances or would make the same choice.
Unfortunately nobody has a crystal ball that can predict which specific mattress or combination of materials you will like best or that you will sleep best on with any certainty based on specs or “theory at a distance” and I would be very skeptical of anyone who claims that they do. It just doesn’t exist.
Hi Phoenix,
Thank you for your response. I know mattress shopping has a very large subjective component, which makes it difficult to give specific recommendations. I greatly appreciate your insight, patience, and thoroughness in responding to all the noobs like myself. Your site and the breadth of your knowledge are an incredibly valuable tool for those of us seeking to find the best fit, performance and value in a mattress. I did review the PPP and tutorial posts, as well as a myriad of other posts on here before I last went testing, which were incredibly helpful in that process.
I talked to Shawn at SleepEZ, and he recommended a M/M/F setup for me, which is in line with what I found testing. Although I felt slightly more pressure in my shoulder with the M/M/F setup vs the M/S/F, it was also the one that felt most like my current mattress, and the one I had the hardest time staying awake on. I also talked to a salesman at SavvyRest (can’t remember his name), and he recommended going the M/S/F route, mostly because it allowed the most variability in testing out different layering schemes.
One other interesting bit of information I gleaned from those phone calls was regarding the two companies differing return policies (i.e. SleepEZ accepts them, SavvyRest does not). The SavvyRest salesman posited that one way SleepEZ is able to keep their prices so low (in addition to no widespread showrooms and no certs (which they do in fact have)), is that they might clean the returned mattresses with chemicals so that they could resell them as “new” (the SavvyRest salesman stated they didn’t want to do that, which is why they don’t accept returns). The response I got from SleepEZ on this is that they don’t ever clean their (returned) mattresses with chemicals, they instead sell them at a huge discount in an “as-is” state, for which there is a huge waiting list.
My wife is going to do some more testing later in the week, but barring any divergence from our previous round of testing, I’m leaning towards getting one side M/S/F and one side M/M/F (all Dunlop), since we were both somewhat between the two. That way, we can both try out both configurations at home over an extended period, and see if that fleshes anything out. SleepEZ has a great exchange policy ($30 per layer for the first two, vs the $150 per layer I was quoted for SavvyRest), so If we both end up liking the same setup, it won’t be a big deal to swap them out. Once I have that dialed in, I’ll start looking at toppers. It’s really difficult for me to not go full engineer mode on this process (like I do with pretty much every other major purchase), and since I couldn’t come to a firm conclusion with about 1.5 hours between the two configurations, I think this might be the best option.
Something that came up when we were trying the mattresses is how the topper gets wrapped in with the mattress protector/sheets/etc. The salesperson stated we would want the topper just under the fitted sheet, for maximum effect, but I feel like we would want it under the mattress protector/thin wool pad (moisture barrier), especially since the toppers can’t really be washed. Is there a particular order you would recommend assembling the topper/protector/moisture barrier?
It’s always amazing to me what some salespeople will say without having any of the facts at hand to try and explain their higher costs.
Lets look at some of the math involved in return policies …
Lets take a simple example (to keep the math simple) and assume that a mattress sells for $3000, that it has a 50% profit margin, that it costs $200 to ship, and that there is an average return rate of 10%.
If there was no return policy then the mattress would sell for $3000 + $200 shipping for a total of $3200.
If they had a return policy then the costs involved would need to be built into the cost of the mattress.
A returned mattress would cost them $1500 (their cost)
They would lose the original shipping costs of $200 (assuming that they provide a 100% refund)
Lets say they charge the customer $100 for return shipping (half of the actual cost).
Their total cost for the return would be $1800.
This would be spread out over the remaining 9 mattresses which is $1800 / 9 = $200.
Now each mattress would cost $3200 + $200 = $3400 so for an extra $200 they could offer a return policy that recovers their costs and this is assuming that they throw the returned mattress away.
It would really be a matter of preference depending on how much the protector affects the feel of the topper. With a latex topper I would lean towards using the topper under the protector to help protect it but you can air out wool toppers in sunlight which can “refresh” the wool and activate it’s natural self cleansing and deodorizing properties (from the lanolin) so it would be much more of a preference choice.
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding for your final configuration.