My wife and I have been through two beds in 2 years. We got a Beautyrest recharge mattress as one that was to last for the next 7 to 10 years. After a couple of weeks sleeping on it agonizing pain in my shoulder we complained to the retailer and Simmons. Simmons did not want to do anything for us due to a comfort issue. The retailer finally after a lot of complaining let us exchange up to a comfortpedic loft by Simmons.
After about 2 years on the comfortpedic loft the memory foam has lost it’s resiliency and now I wake up with sore knees and back due to my back not being in proper alignment. The memory foam bed does not show any manufacture defects so therefore no warranty has been voided.
So my wife and I … or mainly me because she can sleep on anything, are off on another bed search. Thanks to the help on this website I will be better informed to make a much more educated purchase.
I also wanted to know if you had any suggestions on places to check out in Central PA. I have found a few small furniture stores that carry Dutch Craft in their lines and Restonic. Other then those lines it seems to be the major brands that are carried around here.
Thanks for all the time you invested in this site.
Post #2 here and post #6 here include links to several forum lists which may be helpful and would likely be closest to you.
Both Dutch Craft and Restonic may have some better quality/value options but with any purchase … outside of making sure you have done some careful and objective testing for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) … a mattress is only as good as it’s construction and the quality of the materials inside it and the most important part of a mattress purchase is making sure that you know the quality of all the layers and materials inside the mattress. Once you know this you can use the guidelines in the tutorial post to identify any possible weak link in the mattress in terms of durability and make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses … regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label.
Thanks for the response Phoenix. I had already read most of the informative posts and greatly understand where we went wrong 2 years ago buying a new bed. As I search the forums I tend to keep finding more and more useful information. My wife and I are going to use the guidelines to try to find the best possible bed for us in regards to PPP. It has become clear we may have to invest a little bit of traveling to be able to test some beds and find out the materials that best fit our PPP, but I think it will be a much better investment then spending hundreds of dollars every few years with lack of sleep and sore aching bodies.
Phoenix if I can get your opinion on the Grand Legacy Ultimate Firm Pillowtop. The specs are as follows
Quilt Safeguard Fibers .8 oz safeguard FR fiber
1" Bioflex 1.8 lb HD Quilt Foam plus 1/2" Bioflex Firm Foam P. Top Insert 1" 1.8 lb HD Bioflex +
1 3/8" HD Convoluted Bioflex
1/2" 4 lb Fusion Gel Foam
1/2" Talalay Latex Upholstery Firming Pad
1" Firm BioFlex Innerspring8" Dual Tempered Encased Coil - 850 Queen Coil Density Posturized and Nested gauge is 14.5 on ends and 14 in center.
Genuine Foam Encased Edge 3" Wide 1.5 lb Bioflex rails
Comfort Loft Base 1 1/2" Densified Fiber
Balance of Bioflex foams is 1.8 LB
I am wondering how this might hold up for me as I am 6’ and around 260 lbs. This bed seemed good for pressure relief and posture but it still seems like there are some unknowns in the formula above.
I will also post the Symbol information I found out from the retail store not nearly as good information on the specs as this one….
I rearranged the specs a little so I could make some comments about each layer.
Quilt
Safeguard Fibers .8 oz safeguard FR fiber: This is the fire retardant which is a necessary part of all mattresses. 1" Bioflex 1.8 lb HD Quilt Foam: This is the bottom end of “good quality/density” polyfoam. 1/2" Bioflex 1.8 lb Firm Foam: Same comments as above
Pillow Top Insert:
1" 1.8 lb HD Bioflex: Same comments as previously. 1 3/8" 1.8 lb HD Confoluted Bioflex: Same comments as previously 1/2" 4 lb Fusion Gel Foam: Medium quality/density memory foam. 1/2" Talalay Latex: Good quality material
Upholstery
Firming Pad: This is probably to create more firmness in the center of the mattress. 1" 1.8 lb Firm BioFlex: Same comments as previously Innerspring8" Dual Tempered Encased Coil - 850 Queen Coil Density Posturized and Nested: This would probably be fine and the innersprings aren’t usually the “weak link” of a mattress but I would want to know the gauge of the coils.
Genuine Foam Encased Edge 3" Wide 1.5 lb Bioflex rails: This is a little bit on the low side in terms of density for an edge support if you were to actually sit on the sides of your mattress. Comfort Loft Base 1 1/2" Densified Fiber: This is the base layer under the coils to give them an evenly supportive surface to rest on and to sit on top of the foundation.
Overall … assuming all the missing specs were 1.8 lb density polyfoam (since confirmed) … there would be no obvious weak links in the mattress for “most” people but I would be very cautious with your weight using layers of 1.8 lb polyfoam and 4 lb memory foam in layers this thick and it would be reasonable to expect that they will soften and compress a little more than you may want under your weight (which would be the norm for any pillowtop mattress that used similar amounts of the same type of foam).
I would personally be looking for higher density polyfoam (about 2 lbs and higher), memory foam in the 5 lb and higher range, or latex in the comfort layers at your higher weight even though this would be OK for people who were lighter.
Thanks for your thoughts on this Phoenix. As far as the Symbol mattress here is the response I received from Symbol.
[quote]Good afternoon Ryan,
We appreciate your interest in Symbol Mattress and our Dorchester Pillow Top w/ Latex.
As you can imagine, the raw materials/components we use are the essential building blocks to the success Symbol has maintained during our 50+ years in business. Therefore we do not share those specifics with the general public. I have attached a Bed Builder card to this email that will give you a detailed overview of the mattress.[/quote]
The detailed overview of the mattress is actually pretty generic and nothing that has real value to it in terms of determining if the mattress has quality materials. I am having trouble attaching this on my Mac book but if anyone is interested I can send to them.
If you can send me their reply at the contact link on top of the page I’ll attach it to your post. If they aren’t willing to supply the quality specs of the foam they use then that would put them in the “less transparent” group of manufacturers. It would also be interesting to me to know what information you asked them for.
I’ve seen various foam specs for Symbol Mattress in my research around the web so I was hopeful that they would be more forthcoming but it seems that they only supply the specs for their specialty foams (such as memory foam or latex) and not their “regular” mattresses so given their response I’ve “downgraded” their ranking here to “some possibility”.
I think part of the problem may have been that you asked for too much information and they may have thought you were a “spy” that wanted all the information that would allow you to duplicate the mattress. The ILD information you asked for and the density of the latex are “comfort specs” and aren’t important to know and a manufacturer would have a legitimate reason for keeping this proprietary.
The pdf has all the layer thicknesses so all you would have needed to know is the density of the polyfoam. The latex would be a good quality material regardless of the type or blend but it would be nice to know this as well even though it’s only an inch thick.
4" of the top 5" of this mattress are either hypersoft or super soft polyfoam which are likely lower density and the other inch is latex and then there is another 2" of polyfoam below that as well before you get to the coils so I would doubt that it’s the type of density I would want to see with your weight (around 2 lbs or higher) so I don’t think this would likely make a good choice.
It would be a little light but even so the innersprings wouldn’t usually be the weak link of the mattress and the foams above it would be a more important factor in the durability of the mattress. There is at least 3 7/8" of polyfoam in the top layers … 1 3/8 of which is convoluted which is less durable, and then some additional 4 lb memory foam as well (still waiting for the thickness) which is also lower density than I would choose for higher weights so while these densities would be OK for someone lighter I would be cautious with them at your weight and I would say this mattress would also be questionable in terms of durability for you.
Thanks for the update on the specs. I’ve changed my previous reply to reflect them as well.
My overall comments would be the same and I would be cautious at your weight with thicker layers of 1.8 lb density polyfoam and would lean more towards 2 lb density polyfoams and 5 lb memory foams in a one sided mattress.
Ok so I was looking at the Restonic Essix mattress with micro coils. I do not have the specs on this mattress yet however thoughts on micro coils for a larger person?
Also my wife and I are heading to Somerset to try some mattresses at Barron’s Furniture store. Imperial sounds like they are using a 2.0 LB HR foam which would be a better material for a larger person. Also they carry Latex Bliss. Dean from there was very helpful and polite VERY knowledgeable about the industry and said he enjoyed his phone conversation with you Phoenix a little while ago.
On our way to Barron’s we will be stopping at Page Bedding in Johnstown and Smith Furniture in New Germany PA. All along the 219 corridor and an easy drive from Altoona, PA….
One other thought my wife and I thought we might go down to Philadelphia to visit some family and while we are down that way stop at Verlo. Any thoughts on Verlo mattress’s? I saw they have a comfort exchange policy……
I think that microcoils are a durable component and if the design of a mattress that includes them is otherwise suitable for you in terms of PPP and doesn’t have any weak links they are a durable component and would make a good choice.
Imperial makes some high quality mattresses that would be well worth considering for higher body weights IMO. They also are one of the few manufacturers that also makes their own springs.
Pure Latex Bliss also makes some high quality Talalay latex mattresses that would be well worth testing and considering but of course these are very different from an innerspring mattress. I would also be somewhat cautious and make sure you do some good testing on their softer mattresses which may not be the best “match” for higher weights.
Verlo is a regional factory direct manufacturer that can have some “better than average” quality and value mattresses and they would certainly be well worth considering on a “mattress by mattress basis” but I would make some careful value comparisons with other mattresses and to make sure that their materials are suitable for higher weights. They are generally good value compared to mainstream manufacturers but may not always be in the “best value” range compared to some others that may be available to you. Post #12 here and post #18 here has more thoughts about them.
A forum search on Verlo (you can just click this) will also bring up more feedback about them but “verlo” is also part of other words so the search will bring up many unrelated posts so a google google site search on “verlo” (you can just click this as well) will bring up all the forum posts that mention them that google has indexed.
Page Bedding would also be well worth considering and a trip to Smith Furniture would give you a chance to test some of their Restonic Health Rest memory foam mattresses if you are also considering memory foam.
Any local dealers that carry Dutch Craft would also be well worth talking to.
I would make sure you call and talk with any retailer or manufacturer you are planning to visit to talk with them first about your criteria and preferences so you can make sure they carry some mattresses that you wanted to test and that would be suitable for you on their floor. An initial phone call to any retailer or manufacturer you are planning to visit can save you a great deal of time and frustration and give you a much better sense of what to expect when you actually visit them.
I was looking at a budget Mattress that had the following specs.
Reminisce PT
Quilted Top
1" Super soft Foam – quiltflex
1/2" Support Foam - 1.2 lb
Support
2" Soft Contour Foam – 1.5 lb foam
1.5" Support Foam – 1.5 lb foam
1 1/2" HD Base Foam – 1.5 lb foam
522 Foam encased spring 13.75 gauge Coil
I know this would not hold up compared to a mattress that has better foam but I was interested in your thoughts as it is being a budget range mattress.
It was around $450. Any ideas on a life span for a mattress with these specs?
There isn’t any way to know for certain because it will depend on many factors including your weight and weight distribution, sleeping positions and style, and where inside your range of “comfort and support” you are when you sleep on it. It could be anywhere from a few months or less (if the initial break in period makes the mattress too soft or unsupportive for you) to a few years or in some cases perhaps longer if you are closer to the “I can sleep on anything” end of the range than the “princess and the pea” end of the range. There is more about the factors that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here and the posts it links to.
Hi Phoenix thanks for your thoughts above on the lifespan of a mattress.
I have appreciated everything you have put together here. After a trip to Barron’s Furniture and trying the Pure Latex Bliss mattress and my wife absolutely hating it (too much sinking in quicksand type feel). We also tried the Restonic latex (I believe Dunlop over foam) at the one local store had too much bounce for her. So I was searching more for innerspring mattresses than latex and foam. However after calling a couple of places and talking to the local sales people I convinced my wife to go up to State College and the Room Doctor to try a build your own style mattress with Savvy Rest. Wow was she and I both surprised at the comfort. It seemed to have with the Dunlop the innerspring feel and then the talalay gave it the nice comfort aspect. Also we could adjust both sides as so many of you knew. I think we might of found a contender here!!! I know the price was a little high but I think now that we tried the all latex adjustable layers style bed we might be more willing to try an online purchase of a similar type.
I also talked to the gentleman at Magic Sleeper, Pottstown PA, who was very helpful and knowledgable. He indicated that they have done some custom work for customers in the past. I said I would try to get down there in a weekend to see if they had a mattress or a solution that could fit the needs of my wife and I. So I think before we settle with the online purchase we are going to go check Magic Sleeper out.
Without this site I am sure my wife and I would of been back to the big box store purchasing another mattress and not having something that fit our PPP. We would of probable been stuck in a cycle like a lot of folks that have dealt with the big corporate industry and still not have the quality of sleep we deserve.
Thanks Phoenix and Everyone who has made this possible!
I think a lot of people that have the chance to try different types of latex mattresses are surprised at the wide range of different “feels” that are possible depending on the type of latex, the thickness, combination, and firmness level of the layers, and the type of cover and quilting as well (PLB has a stretch knit cover and the Savvy Rest has a wool quilted cover).
I’m looking forward to any more of your feedback that you have the chance to share and of course finding out what you end up deciding. It seems to me you are doing some great research
Below are two options I am considering and wanted to get some thoughts on them.
A) 13" profile with 4 3" latex cores Wool and cotton Natural Cover.
B) 10" profile with 3 3" latex cores with a mattress topper 3" latex. This could contain 2 Wool and cotton covers depending on the topper and cover used for the bed. My concern with this option is you have cotton wool cover, then latex in the topper, then wool and cotton cover again, then the 3 layers of latex. After researching a lot I have concluded that this will definitely change the feel of the bed.
Would a wool and cotton topper with a cotton cover on the mattress be better possible? This would also give my wife and I a different way to try the latex bed if we need to change things up.
Does having the topper create more longevity for the mattress? Either option would have the ability to change out components in the system.
I know for my size and my PPP I seem to prefer a pillow top like feel on the beds I have tried so this is why I am considering the 12" of latex.
Does this have a zip cover? If it does it would give you the chance to re-arrange or exchange layers which can be very helpful if you need to fine tune the mattress.
[quote]10" profile with 3 3" latex cores with a mattress topper 3" latex. This could contain 2 Wool and cotton covers depending on the topper and cover used for the bed. My concern with this option is you have cotton wool cover, then latex in the topper, then wool and cotton cover again, then the 3 layers of latex. After researching a lot I have concluded that this will definitely change the feel of the bed.
Would a wool and cotton topper with a cotton cover on the mattress be better possible? This would also give my wife and I a different way to try the latex bed if we need to change things up.[/quote]
This would be a preference and there really isn’t a way to predict which one would work best for you. It’s true that using a quilted cover in a mattress and having a separate quilted cover in a topper will put more material between the latex layers which would feel different from either having the same layer inside the mattress or using a stretch knit cover but only you can decide on which one is better for you. In terms of quality they would both be good options but only your own testing and experience can assess which one is a better match for you in terms of PPP.
A separate topper on a mattress can also respond more independently than the same material inside a cover where it’s more “restricted” in how it responds so like a pillowtop it can feel a little softer than using the layer inside the cover.
If the 4 layer mattress has a zip cover then I don’t think either one would be more durable because either the topper or the top layer in the mattress would generally be the first to soften and both could be replaced without replacing the entire topper. A separate topper may be a little bit less durable than the same layer inside the mattress because it will be a little more subject to compression forces when you sleep on it because it acts more independently but I don’t think the difference would be enough to make it an issue with your choice.
If I’m understanding you correctly then both of your choices would have the same 12" of latex and the only differences would be that in one the top layer was inside the mattress and in the other it would be outside the mattress and that with the topper option you would have a separate cotton/wool quilted cover around the topper (so it would probably be a little more costly).
I would make the choice based on your preferences and which one feels and performs better for you because in terms of durability they would be very similar.
This thread and post #3 here has more feedback about the same idea (a separate topper vs the same layer inside the mattress) and some of the differences in how it may feel.
