Looking for a good King sized mattress in Waynesboro, PA

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

So, my wife and I have literally been mattress shopping for a few years. First we went with Costco due to their return policy. We started with a couple of different ones we ordered on line, they were way too firm and we returned them. Next we purchased a Spring Air from a Spring Air rep who was in Costco selling mattresses. We used this one for close to a year and seemed to like it until the pillow top began to bunch up. Spring Air said they would fix it if we shipped it to them. I could not believe they wanted me to ship it to them, I called Costco and they took it back. My last shot with Costco Was a 9" Sleep Science Natural Latex, this was way to firm and my hip began to hurt as well as my wife’s back. Returned this one back to Costco and pretty much vowed to never get a Costco mattress again. Although their return policy is awesome, I don’t want to return a mattress, I wan tot get one and be happy with it.

Next we talked to Habitat Furnishings and purchased their top of the line Natural Latex which was supposed to be softer than the Sleep Science from Costco. It was softer, and initially we thought we were going to like it but after sleeping on it for a bit it was also too firm. It felt softer when you first got in it, but then when it bottomed out it was too firm just like the Sleep Science. Currently we have another Habitat Furnishings bed, the Habitat Ascend Air Bed. Although this mattress does not hurt my hip like the latex mattresses, it really is not all that comfortable considering the price. it is a $3,000.00 mattress and I am not particularly impressed with it. Also, the remotes came very dirty and they will not clean up and one remote does not work.

My wife and I went out today and looked at mattresses. We looked at Wolf furniture, Mattress Warehouse and mattress Discounters. We narrowed it down to a coil over coil with foam by Restonic, an Inner Coil with foam by Kingsdown and an inner coil with foam by Aireloom. The Aireloom seems to be pretty expensive and according to this website, out of the three the only brand recommended for purchase is the Restonic.

Are there any retailers on this site near Waynesboro, PA (17268). I am close to Hagerstown, MD and Frederick, MD. Would love to look at some good competing mattresses which have a decent comfort guarantee and talk with a mattress sales person who actually knows mattresses and can make educated decisions based upon our needs and provide a hopefully final mattress solution.

2

Hi tooharsh,

I think the first place I would start is the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

While Costco sells some some mattresses that use better quality and more durable materials … (such as the Sleep Science latex mattress) and many major brand mattresses that use either unknown or lower quality materials which I would completely avoid (see the guidelines here) the quality and durability of a mattress and the suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) are two completely separate issues (the quality of the materials in a mattress has little to do with how a mattress feels … only how long it will likely last) and the customer service reps at Costco know very little about matching their mattresses to the needs and preferences of different people with different body types, different sleeping positions, and different preferences. You can see more of my thoughts about buying from Costco in post #4 here. The only good thing about buying from them is that you get a free “roll of the dice” because of their return policy. I would also avoid using reviews as a way to decide whether a mattress is a good match for you because a mattress that is “perfect” for one person or even a group of people can be too soft or firm and completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (see post #13 here).

You can see my thoughts about the Habitat latex mattresses in post #3 here and a forum search on Habitat (you can just click the link) will also bring up more information and feedback about them. Again their latex mattresses use good quality materials but they have limited options to “fit” their mattresses to different people, body types, and sleeping positions and it’s also an “all or nothing” choice. While they are a “better than average” choice … they wouldn’t be in the same “value” range for most people as the list of members here that sell latex mattresses online that are linked in the tutorial post.

You can see my thoughts about airbeds in general in this article and while any type of mattress may work for some people … they are also not the best choice for most people compared to other types of mattresses IMO.

I’m not sure where you read that I recommend Restonic because I don’t recommend any specific mattress based on brand (see post #5 here about brand shopping which along with using mattress reviews is among the worst ways to choose a mattress). There is more in post #13 here about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase and outside of careful and objective testing for the suitability of a mattress … the next most important part of a successful purchase is durability and you always need to make sure you know the quality of the materials inside it (see this article) so you can identify any weak links in the mattress (see the guidelines here) and make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses … regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label. I would avoid any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality of all the materials and components inside the mattress. I do include Restonic on many of the forum lists because many of their licensee factories are more transparent about the quality of the materials they use in their mattresses so it’s more likely that you can find out what you would need to know to make an informed choice and they are often in a better quality/value range than the major brands.

A successful mattress purchase boils down to …

  1. Testing for suitability in terms of PPP (or if you can’t test a mattress in person then making sure you have a more detailed conversation with an online retailer or manufacturer who can “talk you through” the options they have available and can help you “match” their mattresses to your specific needs and preferences … see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

  2. Checking for durability and any weak links in a mattress based on knowing the type and quality of the materials in a mattress (see this article and the quality/durability guidelines it links to).

  3. Comparing for “value” based on #1 and #2 along with all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of that are closest to you would be in the Baltimore list in post #2 here or in the Harrisburg list in post #2 here or the Leesburg/Frederick list in post #2 here but I would always make sure you don’t treat any of these as specific “recommendations” and make sure you test for suitability, check for durability, and compare for value with any mattress you are considering.

None of these are particularly close to you so I took a look in the Waynesboro and Hagerstown area to see if there are any “possibilities” that are any closer to you. While I haven’t talked with any of these … based on their websites these are the stores and the brands they carry where your chances of being able to find out what is inside their mattresses is a little higher … assuming that they would be willing to call the factory for the specs of any mattress they don’t know.

L & S Furniture and Bedding Center | Waynesboro, PA - Store Location Waynesboro, PA. Restonic

http://www.springviewapp.com/ Chambersburg, PA. Pure Latex Bliss (Talalay latex).

http://www.yourmodernhome.com/index.html Chambersburg, PA. Bedding Industries of America

http://www.wolffurniture.com/ Chambersburg, PA., Hagerstown, MD. Restonic

http://www.z-furniture.com/ Shippensburg, PA. Restonic

Spring View Appliance & Mattresses, LLC - Appliances, Mattresses in Chambersburg PA Shippensburg, PA. Pure Latex Bliss

Phoenix

3

Tooharsh I am from Greencastle and just found this site yesterday! It’s been a godsend!
Let me know if you find any stores that are more transparent and not pushy. :slight_smile:

Phoneix
Tx for all your work. I had NO IDEA there was so much to mattresses. I have a 18 yr old
Stern&Foster that needs to go to the junk yard. Saturday I was at value city just looking at
A night stand for my daughter and laid down on an American signature miracle foam gel
Called invigorate. It said it had latex. I didn’t even knew beds could have latex. Lol
I laid there for almost 20 min and couldn’t believe how good it felt. I basically knew that
It wasn’t going to be good quality ( I mean… It’s value city!!) but we decided to look into
Latex beds and I stumbled onto this website by seeing the dreamfoam latex reviews
On amazon where this site is mentioned. I have spent almost all of today pouring over the
Information on here. I feel like my head is going to explode with all this info and I realized I
Was on overload and things getting mixed up in my head while trying to tell my hubby about all
We need to know lol!

I have some very specific questions that I am starting to formulate but I think we need
To just go out and lay on some more beds before asking them. I think I need to narrow
It down a little bit. Not sure if I am going to get more confused or not lol

Tx

4

Hi equestride,

Welcome … and I’m glad you found us.

There is a lot of information on the site but just in case you haven’t read it yet all the most important information, steps, and guidelines that you will need are in the mattress shopping tutorial here which is the first place I would start.

If you follow the steps one by one (adding the optional online step if you are also considering an online purchase) then you will have the best chance of making a great quality and value choice.

Of course you’re always welcome to post any any comments or questions you may have along the way.

With two members of the site looking for a mattress in the same area … some of the stores may end up wondering what’s going on when two people start asking them questions that they aren’t used to answering (or in some cases may not even know how to answer) because as sad as it is … it’s not unusual for those that have spent a couple of hours or so on this site to know more meaningful information about mattresses than most of the mainstream salespeople that sell them :slight_smile:

Phoenix

5

Thanks Phoenix, I will start reading.

You asked where you recommend Restonic, I was referring to your Top 16 list:

  1. RESTONIC: Licensee group. Most licensee factories are transparent about the materials in their mattresses and may have better quality/value than others in the “major manufacturer” group. GOOD POSSIBILITY

You also mentioned both Aireloom and Kingsdown were both AVOID…

Thanks again, I will get to reading and thank you very much for your reply.

6

Hi tooharsh,

OK … I understand what you were referring to. The “ratings” on the list are explained in this part of the article …

… but the rankings aren’t a recommendation for any of the top 16 manufacturers. If a manufacturer is transparent then it’s possible to identify any weak links in a mattress (so you know to avoid them if there are lower quality materials) and make more meaningful comparisons to other mattresses.

Phoenix

7

Tooharsh and Phoenix,

So last night I hit up Hagerstown to see what I could find. Tooharsh…I am not sure what you are in the neighborhood of wanting to buy…coils or memory foam or latex etc… I visited a NUMBER of stores. The only one that Phoenix suggested was Wolf’s furniture. Basically I want to lay on an all latex bed. I want to know what a latex feels like. At Wolf’s furniture I talked to a guy named Jamie. He was actually very nice but didn’t have a CLUE what was inside any of the beds. He kept coming back to it has “comfort gel technology” or “coolgel technology” probably with a “special” name of the company. I had generally avoided him until I couldn’t make head or tails about the layers they have in the beds “write-up” I finally just asked him if they had any full latex beds…with latex as core and as comfort/support layers. He originally told me none of the beds had latex. Then he told me that the “Elevates” by Restonic were Latex (after he walked away for awhile …I assume to look at info LOL) Anyways…I kept asking him VERY simple questions about where the latex was in these beds. He kept saying “well they aren’t really latex…they are called lift-foam” I said “what is lift-foam?” He looked confused and said “foam”. I said…“what kind?” He still looked confused…I then said “is lift-foam latex or memory foam or something else?” He said “it’s not really latex…its kinda like latex…like a hybrid”. I then said…“is the core latex?” He said he didn’t think so but he had to go find his book. The info that was on the bed was pathetic and wouldn’t even give you inches or tell you what their “lift-foam” was. I did lay on the bed but they were getting ready to close and my hubby kept having to drag my kid out so I wasn’t able to have him lay beside me etc. I didn’t mind the bed but the sales person kept coming over and I kept sitting up. So I never got a real feel of it. After coming home I looked them up online. You can’t find really any info other then them saying that the lift-foam is actually 100% latex (not a hybrid lol) but that the CORE of the bed is

TrueComfort poly support core and is topped with additional layers of plush Lift-Foam

So the only question I have about this bed is…would this feel different than one with a latex core? Since we are probably going to buy online I just wanted to get an idea of what kind of firmness I like with a latex mattress and if it supports my pressure points like I need it to. For the few min on it I couldn’t really get a real feel for it.

Also…Wolf’s didn’t have ANY info out for even their tempurs or posterpedics (by sealy) you HAVE to talk to someone and it is obvious they didn’t have a real clue about latex. In fact…the main guy I was talking to actually said this to me. “We did have an all latex bed here a few years ago but they had major problems with it and had to remove it off the floor” My response “what kind of problems? With the brand of bed or the floor model?” …his response “um…yeah…not sure…just I have this …well…latex just isn’t good in my book.” WOW!!! :ohmy: I almost laughed at him. I only asked a few questions since I feel pretty stupid about this but boy are they good and trying to twist the questioning around onto you to avoid answering your questions.

After that…I called Sears because someone told me they had a full latex bed. A pure bliss? or something like that. Nothing…of course…then we hit up several of the mattress discount /warehouse stores in the valley mall area. Basically it was the same…“no we don’t have latex” and then suddenly they do. I was told to lay on a HANDMAND bed that would “change my world” by the salesman. Thankfully he was giving the run around to another couple about how he could get them the managers special because he is friends with the manager and he is only doing this for THEM. :frowning: Anyways …I decided to because he said it had a latex top. If it was …the tufts were so deep and so many that I felt like I was laying on a lumpy mattress instead of a $7000(queen) “change my world” mattress! It was a Synchronized Support by Aireloom and was the most uncomfortable bed of the night.

Today I will by calling all the other places around to see if anyone has a full latex bed to see if it’s worth the drive since now I will start to be really driving out of my way to hit them up.

So my main question is…if I can not find a latex bed would the elevate (harmony) by at least close to what a latex topper would feel like if I got an all latex bed? or anything on the market? We just don’t have a lot of good stores in the area.

TIA for all your help Phoenix! Good luck Tooharsh. Let me know if you find a decent place! :slight_smile:

8

Just found a place that has a pure bliss all latex…if you are interested in that tooharsh

it’s spring view appliances and mattresses in chambersgurg. No one else carriers one on the list
that phoenix gave you. You may be interested in others…so that is fine …but thought I’d let you know.

Hoping to go this evening to try them out. :cheer:

9

Hi equestride,

Unfortunately your experience is fairly “typical” and it’s not unusual that the members here that have spent more than a couple of hours on the site will generally know more meaningful information about mattresses than most of the salespeople that sell them in the mainstream industry.

Yes it would feel different but how it will feel different would depend in the specifics of each mattress you are comparing along with the body type, sleeping positions, and individual preferences of different people. Each person can have very different perceptions about how any two mattresses compare in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). There is more about “matching” two mattresses in post #9 here. There is also some general information about the differences between a latex/polyfoam hybrid mattress and an all latex mattress in post #2 here but this is only generic because there are hundreds of versions of both types of mattresses that would feel very different from each other.

The information you listed is also very incomplete so it’s not really possible to make any meaningful comments about any mattress until you know the type and quality of all the materials and components inside it. In the case of the Restonic mattresses you are looking at you would need to have the retailer call the factory to find out the information in this article if they don’t have it available. If they either can’t or won’t find out the information you need to make an informed choice then I would pass the mattress by because a “blind purchase” is much too risky and has a very high chance of buyers remorse much too quickly after a purchase.

I also wouldn’t assume that any mattress that a salesperson calls a latex mattress really is because there may only be a very thin layer of latex inside it mixed in with other materials that could make the latex mostly meaningless.

Again there is no way to answer this or even guess at an answer until you know the specifics of what is inside the mattress.

As you also mentioned … Spring View is the only store out of the options I listed whose website indicates that they carry all latex mattresses with their Pure Latex Bliss line (although PLB also makes latex hybrid mattresses). You can see the specs for the PLB all latex mattresses in post #2 here.

Phoenix

10

First of all I want to say to Tooharsh that I am sorry I kinda high jacked your thread. Not sure if I should have tried to start another one or not but just wanted to respond here because of everything that was said previously.

Phoenix,
Thank you for all your info. Tonight we went to Spring View Appliances. Super nice Mennonite couple who run the appliance and mattress store. The 2 ladies who talked to us are SOLD on Pure Latex Bliss. They both have them and are in LOVE with them. I am SOOO happy we found a place that has an all latex bed. It was nothing like I had felt before. I laid on each of them for about 15min. I can honestly say it wasn’t 100% love at first. I think when you compare it to coil …which we have…and then to the gel/memory foam I fell in love with on Saturday which started my research…well…you just can’t compare them. I DO like the way I sleep “in” a memory foam better BUT everything else about them I don’t care for. Harder to move, hotter, and especially the slow rebound (return). On the latex bed… My back was aligned and all my painful pressure points felt comfy. The beds were not as stiff as I thought they’d be… given the way I have read about how firm some of them can be. All in all…my husband and I believe that a latex bed is probably the best thing suited for us. It will give me some of that sleeping “in” feeling…along with quick return and should offer over all good support for us.

I was hoping you could be of some guidance for us. Here are some info on my husband and I . Husband is 6ft about 240lbs and I am 5’4" 230lbs. We both are side sleepers but because of pain from coils poking me in my old bed (at least 18yrs old) I have been starting to sleep on my belly some. I guess I roll over because it’s hurting. I hurt badly from doing this. I am “curvy” in the front (as well as all over) so this is very uncomfortable…I don’t know why I stay this way till morning. Hubby sleeps with a ton of pillows …between knees, under his arms etc. He is very broad chested. I have a bad back and neck from horse back riding and ski accidents in my life. We are both 37yrs old. Trying to think if there is anything else that might be of help. Hubby said he is fine with any bed. He does tend to sleep hot and I tend to sleep cold from circulation issues.

Tonight we tried 3 beds. We ended up liking the “firm” Pamper and the “med firm” Nature of the Pure Bliss line. I think even though the Pamper is “firm”. it did not feel as firm as the Nature. According to the women there they said everyone says that. Not sure if it has anything to do with the fact that the Nature has 4" before the core instead of only 2 and the Natures second layer has a ILD (according to this website) of a 28 under a 21. While the Pamper is just a 21ILD. We definitely liked the Nature the best and if this wasn’t just a fluke then that is the one we would say fit us the best.

Pricing from this company ran as follows
Pamper (2nd choice) Q:$1999 K: $2199
Nature (1st choice) Q: $2199 K: $2399

Free shipping within our range and 90 days return policy. 100% returned but only in store credit and they had VERY few mattresses…everything else a coil it looked like.

Now…we originally stumbled on here because of reviews of dreamfoam on amazon. I don’t believe it HAS to be a pure bliss but we want the most for our buck. Things I didn’t like was there was no way to customize the mattress other then adding a latex topper later. things I like about dreamfoam and Brooklyn Bedding etc… are that you can customize them to some degree. I don’t like that the dreamfoam has dropped their 2.35lb to 1.5lb density…based on info I read on this site. Seems to me that people with our weight could use a bit “more”. I am not sure what the density is on the pure bliss. Our budget is really wanting to get the best we can. We are willing to go up to the $2400 if need but If we could find something very similar but cheaper and order it online that would probably be better. From what I understand Brooklyn Bedding will let you exchange the top layers for the first (is it 90 days?) with no charge? Not sure if I read that right and dreamfoam charges like $75 or something like that. There may be a site we missed that would be a direction to look at. Also I wanted to mention the price above included their base and they said that we had to use that base or the warranty is null and void BUT on here and a few other places online I read that the foundation can be an issue to the comfort and “sagging” of the bed so that makes me a bit concerned. Another reason I am not 100% on board with buying local is because I am not going to be happy if I decide I don’t like the bed and then have $2500 credit at that store. I just don’t think they have a another bed I’d be happy with. Anyway, I know this is a TON of info but if you can think of some place on-line etc… that may be a better direction to look into now that we kinda have a base line to go with… that would be great. I honestly would probably try dreamfoam if it wasn’t for our weight and the 1.5lb issue. Let me know what you think!
Thanks
Tanya :cheer:

11

Hi equestride,

I suspect that any comments or discussion with either one of you would be helpful to both of you but if for some reason Tooharsh would like me to separate this topic into two so that each of you have your own topic I’d certainly be happy to do so :slight_smile:

Unfortunately I can’t feel what you feel or see you on the mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to suggest any specific mattress for someone else based on “theory” or specs (either yours or a mattress). Your own careful and objective testing is by far the best way to decide on a mattress that is the best match for you in terms of PPP (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I’m certainly happy to make some generic suggestions, point out warning signs that I can see, help with “how” to choose, and to comment on the quality of the materials (and Talalay latex is a high quality material) but your own personal testing is the best way to predict which mattress is most suitable for you.

Each person’s perceptions are unique to them and may not agree with others or even “most people” but I think her comments were more of a “feel good” reply because “most people” would feel that the Pamper was noticeably firmer than the Nature both because the comfort layers are thinner and because the support core is firmer.

If you aren’t confident that a mattress is a good choice for you then I would also keep in mind that the options you have after a purchase and the mattresses that are available that you can exchange for if it’s necessary can be an important part of each person’s personal value equation.

If I was in your weight range then I would also consider a mattress with a higher density base foam than 1.5 lbs if the latex comfort layer was 3" including some of the latex hybrid mattresses made by Brooklyn Bedding which is their sister company and has several latex/polyfoam hybrid options that use 2.17 lb polyfoam in their base layers which would certainly be suitable for higher weights. The change happened long ago so it really isn’t relevant any longer because the value of a mattress depends on what else is available to you when you are buying a mattress and the market and the mattresses that are available always change over the years. They have also sold many more mattresses after the change than before it but you can see some of my comments about it in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

I would also keep in mind that just like local exchange options, the options ou have after a purchase including the option to exchange a layer if the firmness level you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for can also be an important part of the “value” of a purchase so some of the other reasons to choose a different mattress may also be just as important as the base foam. I would also keep in mind that mattress exchange policies or layer exchange policies are built in to the cost of a mattress and the majority of customers that don’t exchange a layer or a mattress end up paying for the minority of the ones that do.

Density is a “comfort spec” with latex not a “quality spec” (firmer latex will also be denser which isn’t the case with other types of foam materials) so the density of latex isn’t important … only with polyfoam and memory foam (see the guidelines here). The type and blend of latex is the most important part of comparing latex and blended Talalay latex is one of the most durable foam materials available in the market. Having said that … it’s also true that the softness of any material including latex is also a secondary factor in durability because softer comfort layers generally be less durable than firmer comfort layers of the same type of material … especially with higher weights. There is more about all the variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

You can see Brooklyn Bedding’s exchange and return policy here.

As far as I know (and I would check to make sure of the specifics because it can change) … Dreamfoam charges you either $200 for a King or $150 for a queen or smaller and then refunds you half of that when the original layer is returned.

The PLB warranty specifies that any suitable foundation is OK and some retailers I know won’t sell the PLB foundation with their mattresses because they are not the best choice for a latex mattress (as strange as it may be that they are selling a foundation that is lower quality than many people … including me … would be comfortable with). I would always make sure that when you are comparing mattresses that you are making “mattress only to mattress only” comparisons or at least that they both include similar quality foundations.

The tutorial post includes this link to the members here that sell mattresses online and many of them (including Dreamfoam and Brooklyn Bedding) sell many different types of latex or latex hybrid mattresses with a wide range of features, options, designs and prices.

Phoenix

12

Thank you for everything. I have one last question. Hubby and I are sitting down to night to narrow our choices down.

In terms of the core of a bed. If an all latex bed has a 6" latex core and then 2" of latex and then another 2" of latex would that bed be higher quality or better support etc…than a bed that has 3", 3", 3" and 1"? If the material etc… are all the same …such as talalay latex. Would there be any difference in them if the firmness etc… is the same in them? I have seen a few beds online that look to be similar to the pure bliss we were looking at but they have 4 or 5 foam layers instead of one thick one and 1 or 2 on top. Hope I explained that okay. Basically if everything was the same except the amount of layers or “thickness” of layers would that have any bearing on the quality, longevity or even comfort feel of the bed?

tx again!

13

Hi equestride,

The quality of a mattress in terms of durability and the useful life of the mattress depends on the type and quality/durability of the materials not so much on the design of the mattress or how many layers it has (see post #4 here for more about the variables that are involved in the durability and useful life of a mattress). There is also more information in post #3 here that may be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges.

The suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) depends on the design of the mattress and the specific combination of materials and layers that are the best “match” for your body type, sleeping position, and individual preferences.

Latex comes in a wide range of firmness levels so one mattress that uses a specific combination of layer thicknesses may be very different from another one that uses the same thickness of materials in different firmness levels. For those that are more technically inclined there is more about some of the specs that are involved in mattress theory and design in post #2 here and there is more about what I call primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief in post #4 here but in general terms this type of “theory” is much too complex for consumers that don’t have extensive knowledge about mattress design and materials and it’s more effective to go by your own personal testing or experience when it comes to deciding on a local mattress that is a good match for you in terms of PPP. If that’s not possible then the “next best” approach would be a more detailed conversation with an experienced and knowledgeable online manufacturer or retailer that puts your legitimate best interests and helping you choose a mattress that is the most suitable match for you above “making the sale” and where you are also comfortable with the options you have after a purchase just in case “theory” or the “averages” of other people don’t turn out as well as you hoped in “real life” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Phoenix

14

Okay…so as long as the type of firmness etc… is the same in the 2 mattress they should be similar then. So if a bed is 6" of T.latex in firm and then 3" of t. latex in xfirm and then 3" of t. latex in medium . it wouldn’t be much different in a bed that was 3" of t. latex in firm and 3" of t. latex in firm and then 3" of t. latex in xfirm and 3" of t. latex in medium. the fact that the bottom 2 are not joined to make 6" shouldn’t be a huge difference? that Is what I asking. I do understand that changing the firmness etc… or type of foam…such as going to dunlap would then change how it felt to me. But I wasn’t sure if the core should be a solid 6 or so inches as opposed to 2 3" cores. This is only an example. Unfortunately we have only had an opportunity to lay on 1 brand of mattress so I would pray and hope that wherever we decide to get from will have some ability to help us tweak it. I also understand that even the cover can change the feel. Just wanted to make sure that if the components where equal in what they were that the structure wouldn’t be weakened by have a core that was split in a 3/3" =6" or just a solid 6" base.

Thanks for all you answers. Sorry I am asking so many questions!
:side:

15

Hi equestride,

If two mattresses have the exact same layers and components and use the same type of materials (including the same type and blend of latex), the same layer thicknesses, the same firmness levels for each layer, and has the same construction (glued vs unglued etc) and a cover that is the same (or at least functionally the same) then they will be very close if not identical equivalents (outside of the normal variation in firmness ratings for any material because ILD’s are never exact).

As soon as you have any differences between two mattresses then the mattresses will feel and perform differently to some degree which some people may feel and some may not depending on their sensitivity and where they are in the “princess and the pea” to “I can sleep on anything” range. In some cases, differences that would seem relatively small or unimportant to most consumers that aren’t familiar with mattress design theory can make a surprising difference in how two mattresses compare in “real life”. There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” another one in post #9 here and the posts it links to.

Even though the upper layers will have a bigger effect on how people feel on a mattress … the deeper layers will also have an effect and any differences in deeper layers may be more obvious over the course of the night than they would be when you first lie on a mattress because time compounds the effect of any differences. It would also depend on the person and their body type and sleeping style.

Just to make sure we’re on the same page …

Your first mattress includes (from bottom to top)

6" firm Talalay (the blend and specific ILD isn’t mentioned and both of these can make a difference)
3" X-firm Talalay (same comments)
3" medium Talalay (same comments)

I believe your second mattress includes (also from bottom to top) …

3" firm Talalay (same comments)
3" firm Talalay (same coments)
3" x-firm Talalay (same comments)
3" medium Talalay (same comments)

Based on this … if the type and blend of each layer was the same and the ILD was also the same for each layer (not just the word ratings) then the only difference between them outside of any differences in the cover (which would also make a significant difference) would be that the first mattress had a solid 6" layer and the second had two 3" layers with the same ILD that weren’t glued together.

If this is the case and I’m clear on both mattresses then outside of word ratings referring to different ILD’s or differences between the type of Talalay this would be an instance where there would be some “theoretical” difference between them (individual unglued layers respond more independently and can “act” a little softer than a single 6" layer of the same ILD) but for the very large majority of people any difference between them wouldn’t be noticeable difference in real life.

Questions are always “good” and the only issue with questions is the ones that aren’t asked and end up being important in hidsight :slight_smile:

Phoenix

16

Okay I can honestly say I am exhausted and have mattress info overload. I think I have spent about 10hrs the last 2 days looking at mattresses. To be truthful I don’t know where to turn next. Because we only have the pure bliss to try out we don’t really have a good reference point to go on. So…then I thought I’d look for something in our price range but even that is starting to stress me out. Most seem to be in the same ballpark as the local store but their return policy and the “store credit” terrifies me. I can’t imagine if I end up not liking it…with a $2500 store credit in a store that sells very few beds.

Here is kinda where I am at. I honestly know that any and all of these beds could be different. I don’t particularly feel like I am a “princess in a pea” kinda gal because our bed is SHOT. The top almost touches the bottom on the one side. The side I sleep on isn’t as bad but I can feel springs etc… I grew up sleeping on crappy twins etc… My body hurts daily but I kinda am use to it. I think I could pretty much adjust to sleeping on anything but I would rather not. I would rather buy from someone that will work with me and allow me to change out layers etc. I do not have that option with the local store.

I know that all of it is about what a person likes but I don’t seem to have the luxury of that if we choose to buy a latex bed online. The stores I am looking at online are as follows.

Mattress.net King 9" thick with 6" Core and 3" topper for $1600 I personally want something a bit thicker because I don’t want to bottom out due to our weight. I was thinking of seeing what they said about a custom order and the cost.

Brooklyn Bedding: 10" Total Latex with a 6 and 3" topper for 1999 or maybe the aloe alexis but I have NO concept of what that would feel like

Sleep EZ 13000 King for 2395 mainly because I like the 13" but hubby doesn’t like the price.

FlexusComfort: 9" king for $1895

Honestly I think I’d be okay going in any direction but if you had to pick out of these four which one would be able to talk to someone who is kinda going in blind with ONLY the 2 purebliss we tried and would be good at talking us through what bed would be best???
I think you recommend all of them but I don’t know where to go from here. I know we are going to need firm because of weight but I don’t know what ILD or how many layers would be good so we don’t bottom out like I felt a little on the Pamper from purebliss. that only has a 3" on top of a 6" and was considered a firm bed. Of course it had been on the floor for over 1.5yrs while the nature had only been about 11 months.

Basically I like being able to custom the bed to what I want (or in my case …since I can’t lay on it …what I would need for weight and side sleeping) which is why I am leaning towards talking to mattress.net but I think I heard that Brooklyn bedding is VERY helpful and will customize it too but I can’t remember and I didn’t see that on the website.

SleepEZ is the most expensive at 2395 but it’s possible we could go down one step from the 13000.

Flexcomfort is middle but I didn’t see anything about customizing what you need.

Basically I am going to be putting myself in the hands of someone experienced and trained and I’m just not sure which direction to go into. I could call everyone but I am afraid that might make me more cross-eyed. Maybe I could narrow it down to 2 to call and go through what they recommend and their pricing. If I had to go with 2…any thoughts for this muddled gal from PA? :blink:

Maybe you can’t recommend but I thought I’d ask since I’ve been going round and round and round with my hubby. This one has a better return policy…this one charges less if you just exchange a layer…this ones cheaper all around. One thing we aren’t going to prob. give up is getting a king. I promised myself the next time we got a bed…it would be a king …so I can’t go down on the price there.

Tx…if you can shed any light on what direction I could go I’d most appreciate it!
Tanya :slight_smile:

17

Hi equestride,

Lets see which of the steps in the tutorial you are “stuck” on because in most cases skipping some of the steps and suggestions can lead to information overwhelm and “paralysis by analysis”.

I’m assuming you have completed step 1 and 2 so you would have set your budget. What is the midrange of your budget?

I’m also assuming that you have decided on the types of materials or mattresses you prefer. Are you only looking at all latex mattresses?

Step 4 in the tutorial suggests narrowing down your options at each of the local stores you are considering down to 1. What are your local finalists.

Since you also appear to be considering online options … which of the online retailers/manufacturers that you mentioned have you talked with in detail and which of the mattresses that each of them sell are your finalists? This is where you should be asking all your questions so they can give you answers that are specific to the mattresses they sell. It’s not likely that you will “need” 12" of latex at your weight although you may still decide that you prefer it.

Once you are down to your local and online finalists (the one mattress you would choose at each of them if you had to buy a mattress there and there were no other options available to you) either based on your local testing or on more detailed conversations on the phone … then and only then is the time to to make a final choice between “good and good” based on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

I think you may be missing the part about the more detailed online conversations with some of the online options you are considering and trying to decide based on your questions on the forum and on “theory” and this may be where you are “stuck”. I don’t think you will get “unstuck” until you talk with the online retailers and manufacturers you are considering.

Phoenix

18

Okay so after spending several hrs calling and talking to 4 companies we narrowed it down to 3 of them.

I found it interesting that even though they asked similar questions etc…they seemed to have slightly different answers to what bed they think would be best for us.

Please remember that the ONLY bed we can try local is the PureBliss …Nature and Pamper

Nature has 6" core but 2 toppers…it is a level 3 which is considered medium/soft and is their best selling bed but felt (to us) firmer because of the 2 toppers (I am assuming) and would soften over time.

Pamper has 6" core but 1 topper and is a level 7 and considered Firm by them. The core is firm (firmer then the nature) but 1 topper and felt softer to us. This could be because of just one topper OR just being more broken in.

Both beds were not THAT much of a difference to me but I know I need a firm support for our weight but would like a softer top to support my hips and shoulders.

Here is what the three companies recommended. Curious to see what you think…although I KNOW it’s all subjective you have been doing this for a LONG time and could possibly nudge in a certain direction based on your opinion of each company or things that have seen or experienced in the past. I do not hold you accountable as …like you have said…what I feel is very different from another but any light that can be shed would be appreciated.

Okay onto the models.

SleepEZ: I talked to Sean and I tried to talk to him about different concerns but he didn’t seem very interested after he told me his initial thought of what bed we should get. What he recommended (13000) DID seem to make sense to all my research and the fact that it is highly interchangeable is very appealing giving us many options. Our problem is the price is a little steep for us. After mentioning the price… he then suggested the 10000 even though he just said that with our weight we should probably go with the 13000. He said we’d probably be okay and if we wanted to be cheaper that is the way to go.

He recommended the 13000 in the dunlap or talalay blend. Personally…with my research about OUR weight and Side sleeping I feel all talalay is probably better but he seemed to think the blend would support basically exactly the same. I was unsure of this but the 100% organic that they sell is way to expensive for us due that we have to buy the base too.

His suggestion was Natural Latex King at $2395 with a 1 Med, 2 Firm, and then 1 x-firm core. I thought this was a good recommendation due to our weight and being side sleepers but also wanting a softer top. I don’t want super soft and I know it will soften in a few months and medium tends to suit most people. I did suggest to do 1 soft, 1, medium, 1, firm and 1 x-firm and he said that was up to us but we also had the option of switching out the medium to a soft for $30. so I thought we should go with his 1st recommendation and then switch if needed. Our total cost is about $2775 which I find to be a little on the high side because I have seen plenty of 100% talalay for less then that. So …Cost…and the fact that it the durlap or blended (which I believe would end up being less supportive (or break down faster) over time then the 100% and the fact that he was the least helpful of the 4 I called…put them at the bottom of my list unless it would be that the blend would be more supportive. I DO very much like having 4 layers to switch around and that is a MAJOR plus because no one else has this configuration (that we looked at).

Okay so next is Brooklyn Bedding. Mario was the nicest and kindest of all 4 I called but his suggestion was totally opposite of what the other 3 had said. I talked about the Aloe but he did say with the kind of poly core it was he wouldn’t recommend it for our weight. The next was the 10" Total Core He suggested a firm 6" core and then a 3" topper that was a level 6 which seems rather soft to me. I also am concerned of just the one topper and it being too soft for us as time goes on and our weight softens it. The price tag as in our range at 2289.99 for everything but I was nervous because the only thing we can do is add a topper down the rd (but not under the zipper part). I figured I’d rather pay a little more now because I suspect this will be the case down the rd. I do wish they offered more variety in their layers and thicker beds (over all with more layers) to cater to heavier people. they seem like a wonderful company to deal with.

I then called flexuscomfort but seeing the pricetag of a 13" that had dunlap as the majority of the bed I quickly decided that it was a bit to much for that. they only have a 3" talalay. While dunlap is probably totally fine for most people …my research on here and on the internet leads me to honestly think…at our weight of just under 500lbs …230 and 240 that 100% talalay seems the best route and there are places that sell this…so we crossed them out.

The 3rd one in the mix is Mattress.net. Now…I felt Greg was the MOST detailed in his questions and seemed to be thinking the same way I thought (unless he was just following my lead and opinion). I did find him a bit arrogant (and seemed the most like a ‘SALESPERSON’ when he immediately told me I shouldn’t buy latexbliss (purebliss) whatever it’s called…because of their covers being not the best. He did say it was a very good price that they were offering but also agreed that $2500 store credit is a bit scary. I DO NOT like when someone tries to be negative towards another company. You don’t have to trash a company if you have full confidence in what you are selling. So that was a turnoff and it happened in the first 2 min. He also was a bit rude the way he kept saying things like “yeah…well you guys are big…really big…so you need good support.” While this is true he should understand that more sensitive people (about their weight) would have hung up on him or scratched him off immediately for talking like this. In fact …2 of my girlfriends I had dinner last night with told me I shouldn’t get from a company with a guy like that. Personally I was very upfront about our weight and talked openly to him so perhaps he felt a bit too comfortable. For over 20 years I worked customer service and marketing at our local ski resort so to be honest I am used to people saying stupid, obnoxious things and have developed a thicker skin and will not turn my nose up at good quality because of them rubbing me the wrong way. I only say all this to you because I KNOW you have developed relationships with many of these companies and if you have a chance to have a honest conversation about this you should because it could turn people away that could easily purchase from them. Not everybody has cookie cutter perfect bodies.

So…now that my “rant” is over :lol: Onto what we talked about. He suggested we do a custom bed.
King for 2000 +shipping+base etc…just under 2500 which is basically the limit for us.

He suggested a talalay base of 36 ILD or Dunlap 40 ILD but he would go with talalay because of better support.
Then we’d have a 3" topper and he suggest it be dunlap with a 25 ILD and then a 2" Med talalay with a 22ILD. Those 2 would be interchangeable. I couldn’t seem to reason why he suggest the dunlap topper instead of talalay and he never seemed to answer me. He was a little “iffy” on the price of shipping and kept saying he’d throw in 2 free pillows or waterproof cover or 5% off mattress which is around$100 …all this nickel and dime stuff doesn’t matter when you are buying something that expensive to me. I just want the TOTAL cost of the bed …including shipping and minus whatever small discount or free things etc… doesn’t matter to much to me because it’s nothing massive enough to care.

So these are the 3 beds we have. I can convince my husband to go with more $ if it looked like sleepez may give us a better ability to switch stuff around but would rather not. He is already cringing at the 2500 mark.

Just looking to see if you had an opinion of which could be a better choice…consider the Brooklyn bedding was fairly different in what they suggest . Or if I can take anything back to any of the companies or ask to change something that may fit us better. Once again…I just know that we need the most supportive bed we can get with being heavy and side sleepers BUT don’t want to FEEL like I am sleeping on a board but am willing to go 30 days to see how much something softens. I do know I want a topper that gives a bit more under my shoulder… (my worse spot) so I can’t have anything x-firm etc… which a medium or medium firm topper with xfirm or firm underneath as support seems to be the best bet.

I know this is a ton of info and you don’t have the time to go back to all the posts to remember the who /what / I am or looking for but hoping for a little insight. I am leaning towards the mattress.net based on price but sleepez is appealing because of all the different combos we could have.

tx!!! :cheer: I am done :lol:

19

Hi equestride,

Different suggestions from different manufacturers is more the rule than the exception because all the mattresses you are looking are different to some degree or another (see post #8 here). The truth is that this is as much of an art as a science and there will be many configurations or combinations of layers and covers that will work equally well for you and when you are dealing with knowledgeable and experienced online manufacturers I would go with the outcome of your conversation with each of them regardless of whether they seem to be different from another manufacturer that makes a different mattress. All of them have a great deal of experience with helping customers that are similar to you and will know much more than I do about their own mattresses (I haven’t slept on any of them). They also help customers make firmness and layering choices every day while I don’t do it at all (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). They also have all been in the industry for much longer than I have. They are the experts about which of the options they have available that would have the highest chance of success for your specific needs and preferences.

Latex is also a very durable material and while any foam material will soften over time … latex will soften less and more slowly than other types of foam that are the same firmness level. On a scale of 1 - 10 with 10 being the softest … Pure Latex Bliss rates their Nature as a level 7 and their Pamper as a level 4. The two layers of softer latex in the Nature would make it feel softer to almost everyone … not firmer … but of course what each person feels on a mattress can be very subjective and unique to them.

The softer top layers provide pressure relief for your hips and shoulders … not support. Primary support for the heavier areas of your body comes primarily from the firmness of the deeper layers and secondary support that “fills in” the recessed gaps in your sleeping profile along with pressure relief comes primarily from the thickness and firmness/softness of the upper comfort layers. There is more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief in post #4 here.

The choice between Talalay and Dunlop is a preference choice and I wouldn’t think of it as a “better or worse” choice in either comfort or support layers. Dunlop is a little bit more “supportive” than Talalay in the same ILD because it gets firmer faster than Talalay as it’s compressed more so some manufacturers tend to suggest it in support layers. Talalay is a little bit more consistent in terms of its ILD and tends to feel a little softer in the same ILD in comfort layers as Dunlop for the same reason so it’s often used in comfort layers but the choice of which type of latex is “best” for you is more a preference choice than a better worse choice with either pressure relief or support layers. Some people just prefer the feel of Dunlop and others prefer the feel of Talalay. There is more about the differences between them in post #7 here.

I would keep in mind as well that there are two types of Talalay latex which are 100% natural Talalay and blended Talalay. A mattress that uses either one of them would be “all Talalay” regardless of whether it used blended Talalay or 100% natural Talalay. The Pure Latex Bliss Natural line that you tested for example uses blended Talalay from top to bottom so they are “all Talalay” mattresses that use blended Talalay. If you were testing a mattress that used 100% natural Talalay in all the layers it would also be an “all Talalay” mattress that used 100% natural Talalay. SleepEZ’s Natural version gives you the choice of either blended Talalay or 100% natural Dunlop in any of the layers so you can either use one type of latex for all the layers or choose a mix of 100% natural Dunlop layers and blended Talalay layers. Their organic version uses the same type of 100% natural Dunlop in both versions but any Talalay layers would be 100% natural Talalay not the blend. It would only be worth choosing this if you preferred 100% natural Talalay vs blended Talalay because the Dunlop would be the same. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here but it boils down to two different manufacturing methods (Dunlop or Talalay) and each of these can use either synthetic rubber, natural rubber, or a blend of both.

You may be overly concerned with latex softening over time. While it’s true that any foam material will soften and this will happen faster with higher weights … I would keep in mind that latex will soften less and more slowly than either polyfoam or memory foam which are the other two types of foam that you would otherwise be sleeping on with almost all other types of mattresses (with a few exceptions of mattresses that use natural fibers such as wool or horsehair or other much less common materials in their comfort layers)…

It sounds like he was suggesting a firm support core with a softer “level 6” comfort layer which would be 28 ILD. Just to put this in perspective … the Pamper you were looking at uses a 2" layer of 21 ILD which is softer and the Nature you were looking at uses comfort layers that are 2" of 21 ILD and 2" of 28 ILD so on average they would be softer as well (although they are thicker which also “feels” softer for most people).

You would have the option of exchanging the top layer with either a firmer or softer version or adding an additional topper if you wish to do any “fine tuning” not just adding a topper and a mattress with 9" or latex inside the cover with an additional 3" topper would be the same thickness as a mattress that used 12" of latex inside the cover. There is also more about the difference between using a separate topper and having the same material inside the cover (as part of the mattress) in posts #3 and #4 here and in this topic.

Again … the choice between Dunlop and Talalay would be a preference choice based on the different feel or properties of each. I would put 100% natural Dunlop and blended Talalay in the same durability range and in a similar price range as well. You can see a video here for example of a Dunlop mattress that was in use for almost 50 years. Flexus uses 100% natural Dunlop in their support and transition layers and then uses Talalay in their comfort layers which is a fairly popular design.

The mattress industry is somewhat unique because weight is such a big part of a mattress choice but each person will also have their own “style” with how they approach what for some can be a “delicate” issue. Sometimes the person you are dealing with will take certain verbal cues to decide how “direct” they should be and how to talk about their mattresses (and they may also misread the cues). I also have enough experience to know that some people “connect” more easily with certain styles that others would tend to avoid and vice versa. Some people prefer more “direct” or even “brusque” and others prefer a “softer approach”. In other words … some people prefer to deal with certain types of people or personalities for the very same reasons that they would make others uncomfortable.

All of the manufacturers you are dealing with are very successful and have a large customer base that thinks very highly of them and I tend to leave their “styles” or how they approach their customers up to them and I’ve never considered it my role to tell any of the members here how they “should” deal with their customers or run their business. Of course if they ask me about various things (which they sometimes do) or there are some clear issues or “patterns” in feedback from the members here that I become aware of from forum posts then I would certainly let them know more “proactively” but my approach is generally to let each of them run their business with the “style” that they believe is best and let the market decide whether it’s their most effective approach.

If you are curious about any of their specific suggestions then it would be a good idea to ask a specific question about “why” they are suggesting what they are. It may just be a general feeling that their experience tells them would work better for you that they don’t have a technical reason for or he may have picked up on something you said that was the basis for the suggestion. Either way he would be in a better position to tell you about the “why” behind his suggestions.

I agree with you about the importance of knowing the price of shipping (and of course any discounts you are eligible for) because Arizona Premium adds the cost of shipping to the price while with most of the others the shipping cost is a “hidden” part of the quoted price which doesn’t tell you what it is but where you know the total cost up front.

Overall you are looking at some great options and I think highly of all of them as you know. If I was in your shoes I wouldn’t hesitate to buy from any of them. While I can’t help with which one would be the best match for you in terms of PPP or which choice you “should” make or even which one you should be “leaning towards” (and they may all work equally well) … when you are down to “good vs good” and there are no clear winners between them then post #2 here and your own “best judgement” or even “gut feel” can help you make the choice that is best for you based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including prices and the return or exchange options for each and any costs involved if you need them).

You have come a long way from not having enough good options to choose from locally to having four great options to choose from :slight_smile:

Phoenix

20

Well

We pulled the trigger. We purchased from SleepEZ a Eastern King sz mattress in 13" with an 8" foundation.

The levels are all natural talalay (not the organic) and are x-firm, firm, firm, and med.

Sean was much more talkative today and hopefully this will be what we need. Should get here next Friday or 2 Mondays from now! :slight_smile:

I will hopefully let you know how it goes. Tx for all your help!

Tanya :kiss: