Looking for up to date recommendations/sources for mid quality/reasonably priced 1 or 2 inch memory foam to go UNDER latex as a layer in an all latex mattress

Beyond Mattresses
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Hi all,
We purchased an all latex mattress from a Mattress Underground trusted member back in May 2019. I typed up the whole saga and current problems with it, but I don’t know how to edit, so it turned in to an insanely long post no one would ever want to read.

We were coming from a memory foam mattress for the previous 8 years, which had absolutely amazing pressure relief and motion isolation (which are really top priority for my needs), but was sleeping too hot, and it was taking sooo much effort for me to change positions that I was waking up every time.

Anyway, one of the changes I am positive we want to try is adding some memory foam to the mix. We do not plan to sleep directly on it as a topper unless all other modifications we try (one at a time) fail. So A) We need 2 inch (or less) layers (full California King dimensions, split would be great), and the majority of widely available toppers are 3 inches (like everything at Costco I could easily return for any reason), and B) I do not want (and can’t afford) to spend a small fortune on super high density premium memory foam that we plan to shove in between layers of expensive latex anyway.

I have read through guides and overviews, and searched the forum, but most of the results are very old, for websites that no longer exist or no longer offer memory foam, or for options approaching $800 for a topper.

Is there anyone with experience incorporating memory foam in to a layered latex mattress who can advise what density or other characteristics to look for in this application, or refer me to sites offering reasonably priced options that fit the bill?

Many thanks in advance.

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Hi BabyCarrots and first time MUGster,
Welcome to the MattressUnderGround. So very sorry to hear that you are having issues with your mattress from a Trusted Member.

It is very difficult to offer advice when all of the facts are unknown. I would think the best thing to do in this scenario, is to message the Trusted Member privately. Go over all of the details of what is going on and let them guide you to a proper solution that is satisfactory to you. You ultimately do not want to void any long term warranty. Our Trusted Members are experts, and their goal is to find you the most comfortable option they can provide for you, even if it means utilizing a product that is not theirs.

Most would be happy to speak with you about your options. Some have previously used memory foam as part of the mattress systems. Rather than randomly trying to offer information without all of the facts, since you did not provide the name of the mattress you are looking to modify, I think it best to speak directly with the manufacturer in question.

There are many mattresses out there that combine latex and memory foam in their builds, so it would not be a combination that is out of the question.

Hopefully, you will move forward as I have suggested and I am confident you will come to a suitable solution.

All the best,

Norm

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I have contacted them multiple times with little success. Both about getting a replacement encasement for the defective one our mattress came with (the cotton lining/underside of the top was not fully sewn in to the side seams), and also requesting pricing for local pick-up for additional latex so we can swap a medium layer for firm or extra firm. I was quoted the online price, which includes “free shipping”. Surely, the “free” shipping for heavy, bulky latex is a not insignificant portion of the online price. I have a hard time understanding why that would be the price for an existing customer trying to shore up an ailing mattress and requesting local pick-up. (I also gave them every detail you could imagine regarding how/why this mattress isn’t working for us.)

More importantly, they are never going to be able to provide us with memory foam, so I’m not sure how they’d be of any assistance with the only question I asked. (I did not come here to discuss things only they can help with. I came here to ask about memory foam, which they specifically cannot help with.)

I have never slept as well on this latex mattress as I did on memory foam and can no longer live without it. This mattress is simply not going to work for us as an all latex foam mattress in a single cotton/wool quilted encasement. Of that much, I am sure. Sleeping comfortably is my primary concern at this point, not any warranty. (Our mattress didn’t come with a warranty against hating it and thinking it feels like sleeping on a block of Jello with a hump in the middle.)

I’ve read a number of people report success with thin layers of memory foam under latex. I’d like to try that before resorting to sleeping directly on it, which we were trying to get away from.

If anyone has experience with layering memory foam under latex, or knowledge of the current memory foam market that could help answer my question, I’d love to hear it and really appreciate it. Thanks.

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Hi Baby Carrots,

I am very sorry you have had a bad experience. Clearly, any interactions did not seem go well.

I don’t know which TM you were interacting with and what the circumstances are. I can tell you, if it was a TM that manufactures their own product, meaning not one that simply has a showroom selling various manufacturers products, they could get you just about any foam you want, even memory foam. That can be a conversation for another time.

“You are not mentioning your personal stats (BMI, sleeping positions, possible health issues) or your PPP preferences so it’s not possible to offer some direction except in very general terms. You are the only person that feels what you feel on a mattress and unless you work closely with an experienced manufacturer or retailer your odds of success are limited. (Hence my initial suggestion that you reach out to the manufacturer themselves to see if they would have a solution that could come close to what you are looking for)

I will assume that the “memory foam” you are referring to in your first post and would like to add to your current set up is viscoelastic memory foam (temperature sensitive slow rebound foam, such as tempurpedic). Memory foam in general, is considered more durable the more dense it is. Therefore, the recommendation of 4 or 5lb VE foam would be one appropriate for combining comfort and quality. The thing about VE Memory foam is, it is a comfort foam, not a support foam. Having said that, placing a layer of VE foam under a layer of “unknown” latex most likely will yield even more “jello”. As the VE memory foam is not going to be able to support the latex above it.

You may find that adding a 1.5-2" layer of HD polyurethane foam between the latex layers to add some support may work better than MF (you did mention you wanted to switch from a medium latex layer to a firm layer (again both unknown). Having a HD layer, you can then try a VE layer on top of that and either re install your latex layer above the new setup or try it without (although you did say, you don’t want MF to be the layer closest to you). HD foams can be made to varying weights and densities. Depending on your BMI you should get no less than 1.8lb and probably at least a 36ILD. If you are over 220lbs, I would suggest 2.2lb - 2.8lb with an ILD of around 36.

“It is important to note that the answer is not as simple as just placing some layers of memory foam. Weight, height, associated materials are all going to be a factor, regardless of how the question is asked, there is never a simple answer and it always starts with “depends” whether it will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences)”

Sellers such as Foam by Mail and Foam Factory plus several others offer all types of foam. You also need to question each vendor about their VE foam. Some will describe a VE 5lb foam as “soft” or “plush” (unlike original tempurpedic VE foam which was a slightly higher than 5lb foam, but very firm, which is what I believe you might like, based on what you have stated thus far). Remember, these foams are synthetic, so they can be made very dense and soft, very dense and firm, all of this can be controlled by the manufacturing process.

I know it seems weird, why isn’t that very dense 5lb memory foam firm like tempur foam all the time? It is the process and additives and blowing agents they use to create the foam to get a specific desired outcome.

Hopefully the information above will get the ball rolling.

Norm

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Hi Norm,
I’m so very sorry for taking my frustration out on you. That’s not how I like to treat kind strangers who are trying to help me. I’d really already resigned to the situation and was trying to progress with it as a “DIY build”, so being directed back to the manufacturer again was frustrating.

Nonetheless, I went back to them one more time thinking that you are correct and they would be interested in offering solutions, but that was not the case. I really could not be more disgusted with our experience buying from them. I hope/assume we are a rarity and others have had better experiences, because I cannot understand how they’re a recommended vendor.

Anyway, this is basically a complete rebuild/DIY build at this point. The memory foam was the one thing I was having trouble sourcing, so that’s why I asked about that specifically. Foam by Mail and Foam Factory were two sites I’m pretty sure I read explicitly cautioned against on this forum, so that’s why I was hoping someone had some good sources or expertise mixing and layering foams.

If the manufacturer’s not interested in helping us with such a complex puzzle, I’m not sure why anyone else would be. We currently have one layer of soft Talalay (22ILD) on top of three layers of medium Dunlop (28 ILD) inside the classic cotton quilted with wool zip encasement. (12 inches latex total. Those ILDs are the specs I was given for their current offerings, so I can’t be sure it was exactly the same at the time of purchase). It feels like sleeping on a slab of Jello with a hump in the middle. The foam began noticeably compressing within weeks of delivery. There’s both not enough surface softness yet also not enough support. We are going to move the top layer in to a separate stretchy cover as a topper (as I wanted to do at purchase and was counseled against) and the rest into a shorter encasement. We wanted to swap at least one of the medium layers for firm or extra firm latex, but I’m not sure it’s worth the expense. We were trying to get away from synthetic foams altogether with this mattress, but I’m not sure that’s going to be financially feasible, especially on top of needing a new encasement, so your suggestion of HD foam might be the way we have to go.

I think getting at least three (and up to six) inches of firmer foam will help the “Jello” feeling, but latex just kind of has that feel. We were hoping a thin layer of memory foam might add some much needed motion isolation to the whole block, as this mattress provides zero motion isolation as is. I have seen some very expensive (which doesn’t mean they’re good, of course) mattresses with HD, latex, and memory foam layered in various configurations, but haven’t gotten very far into that research.

My husband had a very serious head injury back shortly after we purchased this mattress (he made a full recovery) and this manufacturer basically refuses to respond via email for some reason, when the only time I had available not caring for him to deal with this was late at night. We should have/would have just returned it, but were in no position to be without a mattress or sleep away from home for even one night (he was sleeping a ton), nor did I have the capacity to figure out what to replace it with, especially after doing so much research and landing on this one in the first place. It’s frustrating how long it takes to figure this all out and how much it costs after spending a bunch of money on a mattress we thought would serve us for many years, so we’ve just been putting it off as long as possible. Doing it while sleeping poorly and waking up in pain doesn’t help. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder which can make life (and unfortunately, sometimes me) unpleasant even under the best of circumstances. So again, please accept my apologies for taking out my sleep-deprived pain-riddled crankiness on you, and thank you for your help.

Take care.

ETA Pretty sure you spent more time, and you definitely offered more information/help, in less than 24 hours than the manufacturer ever has in total. Thank you.

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Hey BabyCarrots,
No worries, we are dedicated to our MUGsters here.
Have you tried removing the talalay altogether? then Flipping the Dunlop upside down.
Sometimes the way the dunlop is cut, the denser side is down and less dense side is up. At about 3" depression point is where the dunlop should start to get a bit firmer. Perhaps if the system allows you to flip the dunlop layers and see how that works without the Talalay for a night or two. Try moving the bottom of the Dunlop layer flipped to the top, this will bring the firmer side closest to your body when lying on it. You may even be able to place a coir layer between one layer of dunlop to see if the system firms up, and if it does, then add the talalay back if it turns out that without it, the firmness it too much. This may be the only way to keep the price down while keeping it more natural. If you want to try a memory foam at 2" which will just add contouring and not change the mattress feel too much you can try this
2.5lb Gel Swirl Memory foam, but quite frankly, I dont think you need the memory foam, unless you really like the pressure relief, but it needs to be your top layer, it will be fairly useless anywhere else. Except if you use a top layer of Dunlop, with the gel swirl just below and the coir below that followed by the rest of the Dunlop.

I would give the all dunlop flipped first and experiment from there and lets see what we come up with. Hopefully, it will get rid of the jello feeling.

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Hi Norm,
Thanks again for all the thoughtful assistance.

We flipped/rotated/rearranged the layers a lot for the first six months or so, then less frequently. Then we moved in October, so every layer was rolled up and bagged and the whole thing reassembled. Then we disassembled our bed frame and trialed the mattress on the floor for a month December to January, so yeah–I have no idea which way anything is oriented at this point!

Despite knowing how Dunlop is made (and its variable density), it had not occurred to me to check each piece for a softer or firmer side. Here’s where I get lost though. Is Dunlop latex actually manufactured in three inch layers? That seems inefficient. Because if it’s made in thicker layers then sliced, and the difference in density is over a 9 or 12 (or larger) inch block, then it seems like the variability in one three inch layer would be pretty low. The top three inches would be least dense, and the bottom three the most dense, and the middle somewhere in between, but within each three inch slice, it seems like there wouldn’t a huge difference top to bottom. (Plus, you say “at about the 3” depression point is where the dunlop should start to get a bit firmer" and all of our layers are three inches.)

Conveniently enough, I actually ordered a coir-latex bed rug at the end of last year. I originally planned to use it under the mattress, but as I got back in to mattress research (it ended up being back-ordered), I started seeing it used in many “natural” mattress constructions now, so I’d already pivoted to trying it in the mattress configuration.

I will also be receiving a knit cotton topper cover this week. I don’t think there’s any way, regardless of what’s inside it or in what order, our current encasement is ever going to give me enough surface conformity or pressure relief. I knew that, and should’ve gone with a 9 inch mattress plus topper (or a different encasement, or probably a different mattress entirely) and should’ve gone with my gut. So we’ll remove the top of the encasement, check all the Dunlop pieces and try to put them firm side up, add the coir under one of the medium Dunlop layers (might have to experiment), and lay the Talalay topper on top (skipping the top of the encasement). We’ll see how that goes.

I am curious why you say memory foam might make a difference or be worth trying in a Dunlop/gel swirl/Coir/Dunlop configuration, but not with Talalay. I think I am going to need a much more complex mattress construction than four three-inch slabs of latex, so I’m interested in these kinds of details and construction philosophy. (For example, I think I might need many more, much thinner, and progressive layers for the comfort layers. Like 1 or 2 inches of very soft over 1 or 2 inches of memory foam, over 1 or 2 inches of soft, and so on. I hope it doesn’t come down to needing zones, but maybe. That’s one of many reasons I’m trying to keep costs down–in case we end up needing to just buy a brand new (expensive) mattress entirely.)

Can’t wait to try the flipped Dunlop, added coir, and stretchy top layer this weekend. Feels like it will have to be an improvement over the current state.

Thanks again,
Caroline

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I believe Dunlop is manufactured in 6" blocks, and they cut them in a way to have the bottom cut as more firm as the material settles to the bottom of the block, the bottom is firmer than the top.

Depending on how your dunlop mattress was constructed, two 3" pieces could be the top and bottom of the block or two tops.

A stretchy knit cover is designed to allow for more flexibility and contouring to the shape of the mattress. It tends to feel softer and may conform more closely to the layers beneath. On the other hand, a tight non-stretch cover might provide a slightly firmer feel, as it doesn’t allow for as much give or stretch.

I suggested the memory foam for the pressure relief and contouring, as if I remember (it has been a while) you said you liked the idea of memory foam. But if you place the memory foam any where but the top layer, 2.5lb viscoelastic memory foam will become the weak link in the mattress, the reason why so many tempur-sealy mattresses fail, S&F, Sealy etc are using the higher density memory foam as comfort layers just below the cover/panel top layer for the pressure relief and contouring, but the biggest complaint is the sagging, dipping and butt impressions, particularly if the layers below are not so supportive. If you were to add the coir higher up to firm up the mattress, you might be able to get away with the MF, it was also fairly inexpensive as I remember at https://mattresstopper.com/. So it put that out there as an option, it is also a bit better for motion isolation. In the end, Talalay may not be as pressure relieving but is a better quality option, but is bouncier (where the MF is has no bounce, just sink)

If you use a layer of dunlop as your comfort layer with the MF just below it, then coir supporting the MF and the rest of your dunlop as your support to keep the entire set up from sinking too deep, you might get some hip relief and a bit of contouring between the dunlop over MF. It is a risk as the memory foam is still the weakest link. I fear it will work and feel fine for a short time, and then start to dip on you as that MF cell structure opens up and gets softer on you. You could always remove it and add talalay, but now you are kicking up the cost as Talalay is the most expensive component.

I was looking at it from the most cost effective way to provide the comfort that you are trying to achieve without mortgaging the house on a ton of new layers. The hope is the coir will be firm and supportive enough that the two layers above it will give you what you wanted in the first place without you sinking like jello.