I noticed that the lbs. per cubic foot for latex is never mentioned on this site or any other that I have found. For all other types of foam, it is important to find out the lbs. per cubic foot to be able to determine the quality of the foam. Is all latex good quality or is there a way to tell if it is good quality or bad or lower quality latex?
Hi fall0utz,
The density of latex (most often used for Dunlop latex and in Kg/M3) is mentioned quite often on this site, but the relationship between ILD and density in latex is different from that in polyfoam, and as all latex is generally considered to be a high quality and durable material, the ILD tends to be the more important variable to know, along with the type (Dunlop or Talalay) and approximate blend (the percentage of natural rubber and synthetic rubber) of any latex layers.
To further clarify:
In polyfoam, density is mostly independent of the softness or firmness of a foam material (both low and high densities can be made in a full range of firmness and softness levels) although they are very loosely related (in the same “variety” of foam … then much firmer is often a little higher density than much softer but not always). Density though is the single biggest factor in the quality and durability of polyfoam and memory foam. So, density and ILD are separate items that are useful to know about the quality and softness of polyfoam.
With latex, all types of latex are generally considered high quality materials and there is a mostly direct relationship between density and firmness (higher density = higher ILD).
Talalay latex is usually accurately measured, or at least it’s within a fairly narrow range, of the listed ILD. For Talalay, the higher ILD’s use proportionally more latex (are denser), so knowing the ILD will tell you of the softness of the product. Knowing the density isn’t necessary for determining quality/durability like in polyfoam (but it is sometime provided), as we know there is an almost straight-line relationship between ILD and density in Talalay latex. And the latex produced in foam cores is very consistent from top to bottom because of the unique Talalay process.
Contrast this with Dunlop latex, which is more often listed by density (Kg/M3) and “word ratings” rather than ILD. With Dunlop it’s probably more accurate to compare by its density than by its ILD, as there can be variations from the foam slit off the top versus the bottom of a Dunlop core, as there can be particulate settling during the Dunlop formation process. Dunlop densities typically vary between 55 to 95 kg/m³.
Either ILD in Talalay, or ILD (if it’s accurate) or density for Dunlop (see post #2 here as a reference), would probably be the best way to compare relative firmness between different Dunlop layers and sources if they are the same type and blend of latex. If two layers are a different type or blend of latex then ILD ratings may not be comparable between different layers.
In the end, for a piece of latex, the firmness of the mattress is correlated to density - the more material is used, the firmer the mattress is. Hardness is the resistance against exerted pressure. Hardness and density (mass per unit volume) of latex mattresses are related or connected to each other, which is not necessarily the case with polyfoam.
I hope that helps out.
Phoenix
Yes, it does. Thank you.
I haven’t seen much about Sleep on Latex they seem to have a good product. I have back issues. I’m tired of replacing mattresses so frequently, poly foams tend to compress in short order. I’m also concerned about the chemical fire retardant that many companies use.
Hi dcain,
Welcome to the Mattress Forum!
This site itself isn’t a review site, but Sleep On Latex is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. They do offer products using high quality componentry.
Regarding “reviews” themselves, while other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful, I would be cautious about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews or other people’s experiences in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).
I’m sorry to hear about your back issues. 
Because each person is different in terms of their physiology, weight distribution, and body shape as well as the positions they sleep in, their individual preferences, and the specifics of any back issues they may experience, there unfortunately is no such thing as a mattress that is “better for backs” in general because a mattress that is good for one person’s back (or back issues) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on … even if their body type, sleeping positions, or back issues appear to be fairly similar. There is only a mattress that keeps you in good alignment which would be best for YOUR back.
In general, what you would be looking for is a mattress with firm enough deep support and then comfort layers that are “just enough” in terms of thickness and softness to “fill in” and support the more recessed parts of your sleeping profile and relieve pressure in your most pressure prone sleeping position (usually side sleeping for those who sleep in this position) so that there is less risk to alignment in your other sleeping positions.
There is a lot of misleading information in the industry about fire retardants and “chemicals” ranging from significant “fear mongering” on one side to completely minimizing fire retardants as an issue at all on the other. Like most issues that arouse strong feelings or controversy the most reliable and “accurate” information tends to be in between both polar extremes so there is “some truth” that “some mattresses” may use some chemicals that some people would find questionable or wish to avoid.
There is also more about “safe” fire barriers in this article and post #2 here. The most common method used to pass the regulations in the mattress industry is the use of inherent, “non chemical” fire barrier fabrics that are either quilted into the cover or are wrapped around the inner materials of the mattress like a sock and foams that use fire retardant chemicals are much more common in the furniture industry than they are in the mattress industry. There are other brands who will use a wool layer as a method to pass fire retardant guidelines (such as Sleep on Latex).
This is a common complaint of many mattress shoppers, as too many offerings use lower density and lower quality materials that tend to provide a very short comfort life. When shopping for a mattress, I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
In case you haven’t read it yet … the best place to start your mattress buying research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).
With this information you’ll hopefully be on your way to making an informed mattress buying decision.
Phoenix
Thank you very much Phoenix, I’ll read this post you’ve suggested. In the past, I have not done the due diligence that I need too. I do appreciate the information you are providing.
Regards, Douglas
Hi dcain,
If you need help or have specific questions as your read through the literature, I’ll do my best to be assistive.
Phoenix
I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere that latex can get harder/firmer over time. But both my husband and I are sure that the latex on our mattress is now MUCH firmer than it was a year ago. The mattress is way too hard now. Why would this happen?
Hi Sageriverheart,
Welcome to the Mattress Forum!
Latex will soften gradually over time, not get harder. Compression set tests and impact tests will show loss of ILD and core height, not an increase in ILD.
If your mattress feels a bit firmer to you, it could be a result from other materials used within your sleep set. The changing of a foundation from one that flexes to one that if completely flat and firm could impact overall comfort. The mattress encasement fabric will soften over time, but if wool is used in the encasement it is possible that this could “firm up” a bit as time goes on. The addition of a mattress pad/protector and fitted sheet (or introduction of new versions of these items) will firm up the overall feel of a mattress. If the mattress was very old, or for some reason exposed to excessive UV or oxidation to the point of hardening the product (which would be rare but more likely in an uncovered state near a window and forced air heating), this could result in the materials actually aging prematurely and they could feel a bit harder. Also, if your mattress uses a very plush upper layer of latex and very firm layers directly beneath, as the upper layer over time begins to soften a bit, you could “feel through” this layer a bit more to the firmer layer beneath, and this could provide you the sensation that the mattress is getting harder, even though in effect it isn’t. But overall, “hardening” of latex over time through use isn’t something normally experienced.
Phoenix
First time using the forum…My wife is totally bedridden w/MS. Presently sleeping on latex 6"core 32 ild w/2" 28ild & 2" 22ild toppers. The two toppers will bottom out in about 6 months and need replacing, of course the top one is the worse. I have also tried different brands as well as memory foam. Is there a mattress/topper combo that would be better suited for someone that is always in bed??
Hey cleangeorge007,
That’s sad to hear about your wife. I’m sorry about that.
Regarding your comments about latex, has it been your experience previously that these comfort layers just lost their comfort in the area where you wife sleeps? Latex will tend to be the most durable of the foam materials, but it would be odd for the layers to “flatten out” in six months, even with continuous use. But if your wife stays in only one area of the mattress, the foam in that area will soften of course, and if she is quite sensitive then it may be that you are replacing comfort layers more frequently.
You are correct that the top layers will go through the most mechanical stress and tend to wear out the fastest, especially when softer. A slightly firmer latex will offer a bit longer comfort life in your situation, but it may not provide the feel your wife desires. Dense memory foam is a common material used in such a situation (I was just researching an article about this in a medical journal). A good 5 pound density can work well.
There are other topper-style comfort materials, including micro and nanocoils, that may help to provide a bit more of a consistent comfort life for your wife. Wool can also be an upper comfort material that actually compresses a bit over time and firms up, and is a popular choice with those who are very pressure point sensitive, such as those with fibromyalgia. Have you looked into some of the thinner air bladders that change pressure that are used in clinical settings for ulcer relief?
Those are just a few quick thoughts I had as I came across your post. I hope your wife is able to feel better.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation / Mattress To Go
I am trying to decide on a Nest Bed Hybrid mattress. Any thought? I have a herniated disc, back and neck pain. Nest Bed is trying to sell me a Q3 bed but I cannot afford it. Now they have suggested a Hybrid. Any thoughts
Hi Plgorman.
Welcome to our Mattress Forum!
I am sorry to hear about your medical condition and I understand that you are trying to make the best out of this situation within a limited budget. One thing to keep in mind is that because of your preexisting condition the cause(s) of your back and neck pains may be compounded and you will need to investigate if the pains you are experiencing are due to the herniated disk or due to support/comfort issues or a combination of both. You need to do more of an extended local or in-home testing to find the best sleep system for you and the construction that best matches your “sweet spot”. Nest has the advantage of a good 100 nights of return/exchange policy which should give you enough time with any of the trial and error that may be needed.
As far as choosing between the two mattresses, it is impossible for me to diagnose someone with a very specific medical condition and determine what may or may not work for you via an online forum… while I can certainly help with “how” to choose … I cannot make specific suggestions or recommendations for either of the mattresses or the combinations of materials or components that would be suitable for you because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
I understand that because your limited budget you may not wish to go with the recommendation that Nest had for a Q3 All Latex Mattress but if you want the benefit of latex you can certainly could go with their hybrid line up mattress using spring and latex on top which can work just as well and meet all your needs. In fact many people prefer the feel of latex over sprigs, but again I wouldn’t know what you would respond best to and you would need to carefully select the right level of comfort/support for you because of your herniated disc condition.
As you may be aware Nest Bedding is using high quality and durable materials and they are one of our site members which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of quality or their products, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. I would certainly suggest to you to rely on Nest’s advice as they are much more familiar with their own mattress designs and materials than anyone else (including me) and they can use the information you provide them about your body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your local testing to make suggestions based on the “averages” of other customers that may be similar to you.
I would be interested to find out what you decide and how things progress for you.
Phoenix
I didn’t see how to start a new thread, so hopefully this will be ok…We just bought two pieces of foam and started a DIY King bed. For the core we chose a 6 " of HQ Lux ILD 50 & over this is 3 " of Dunlop Latex 29ILD 4.6#. We have slept on it two nights. It’s really firm but already my back feels better. I have a couple of convoluted foam toppers…one 2 inches that feels like a decent piece of foam and another one 1 inch that feels cheaper. I have no specs on these cause they came out of a mattress that we tore apart just to see what was in it! Cleaning, I casually threw the 2 inch topper across the new bed. A bit later I took a lie down…boy! that was exactly what my combination mattress needed…an inch or so of soft! I had been thinking of getting another piece of inner foam, thinking that maybe HQ36 on top of the #50 would soften things a bit,but perhaps I should get an inch or two of a latex topper? How soft should I go. I only want a bit to soften the hips and shoulders . Hubby is heavy and does not like a plush bed and frankly the firm ones really agree with me better, but I sure like this little bit of soft. I am leaving it there on the top for the time being.
HI lkm.
Welcome to our Mattress Forum!
I moved your post to a more appropriate topic
I am glad that your DIY experiment is turning out so well, and that you need just a bit of fine tuning to get it just right. Unfortunately it’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).
If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project … the best approach to a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).
There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress inpost #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well.
For those who decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of PPP as a reference point or blueprint and try and “match” every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or use a “bottom up” approach (see post #2 here ).
The thickness of a mattress is only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress but in higher weight ranges (or a higher BMI) the odds are higher that you may do better with a mattress that is thicker than lower weight ranges or a lower BMI (see post #14 here for more about the effect of thickness) but even this depends more on the specific design and combination of materials in the mattress and on how well your testing or personal experience indicates the mattress “as a whole” matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP than it does on just the thickness itself.
It will also depend on your body type and sleeping positions as well because side sleepers may need more softness and contouring than back or side sleepers.
Phoenix
We slept on the additional 2 inch waffle foam. Hubby said he slept good though he was a bit stiff. I “slept” and again my back did not have that awful ache that had moved in with me on our old mattress. (it was represented as a partial “latex mattresses” and i will shine your shoes if there was a lick of latex in it!) Anyway, I have had total Hip replacement on both sides and while I have no “pain”? I do have a tenderness on each of those hips when sleeping on them and I awake and need to turn over before morning. The newest aches in less time than the older one, so I may improve more with time. I am afraid of going too soft and the back will hurt again, so judging how the plain foam helped a bit, I am inclined to go with a couple inches of actual Latex foam in a topper. I surmise I will be still getting some softness and the “feel” of latex pleases me First I am gonna keep sleeping on this combination and see how and if we adjust. Thanks so much for your reply and I understand you can’t tell another person what they are going to “feel”…I have done a couple of tons of reading on this site and some others and feel like I have learned a LOT about mattresses. Will ck in on how things continue for us
Hi lkm.
Great to hear that the hip replacement was successful and that your pains vanished (I would guess that some tenderness in the hips is probably normal).
Your concern is justified and you are on the right track in not wanting to go too soft as in your case good alignment is much more of a priority then pressure relief. Having hip sensitivity would cause you to reposition more often and while most people don’t recall each time they reposition themselves, 20 to 40 times a night would be common. If you go too soft with the top layer you would sink in deeper within the new mattress which would cause to remain in the same position longer which again can result in more tenderness than for someone that is repositioning in a normal range throughout the night.
Adding just a bit of extra plushness seems a step in the right direction and it is good that you like the feel of latex as this would be a more supportive material whilst still contouring around your body and offering the comfort you need. It is great that you have the foresight to give your body time to adjust to the new sleeping environment and that you are watching for how the new changes are playing out over a longer period instead of rushing into fixing the comfort issue. This way you are cooperating with your body and watching for the right clues as to how to fine tune the new arrangement. If you make changes that are too large (such as adding a topper that is thicker than you need) then you could go from one extreme to another (from too firm to too soft for example) and “jump over” the ideal combination.
I look forward to learning about your progress.
Phoenix
After researching on your site and many others, I purchased an Urban Green Mattress and Cover, and waterproof mattress pad a year ago from Foam Sweet Foam. I’m a cold-natured woman of 110 lbs. Most all sources say latex does not sleep hot, but my 100% latex mattress feels like it retains heat. It isn’t hot when I go to bed, but quickly heats up and I’m continually turning over about every 20 minutes trying to cool off.
A few months ago I purchased a 100% bamboo mattress topper, hoping it would put enough space between my body and the mattress to help keep me cool. It helps some, but not enough. My sheets are 100% Egyptian Cotton 300 thread count Percale. My latex mattress is resting on plywood which is set on a bed frame. Making the room cooler just makes the top side of my body cold, while the mattress side of my body is still hot. Other than the temperature issue, I love the comfort of the latex mattress. I’m losing a lot of sleep and feeling desperate. Do you have any other suggestions on how to keep cool?
Hi Jacqulyn.
Welcome to our Mattress Forum!
Good to hear that although you have some temperature issues, the Urban Green Mattress meets your comfort and support needs. It is very likely that with a bit of detective work you’ll be able to track down the contributing factors and adjust your sleeping microclimate.
All foams are insulators (rather than heat conductors) so to some degree they will all be warmer than mattresses that contain no foam at all (such as mattresses that only have an innerspring and layers of natural fibers on top) but these tend to be premium or super premium mattresses and for the most part almost all mattresses have some type of foam in the comfort layers.
It is important to recognize that no two people are alike, and even with naturally derived materials such as latex that is known to be the most breathable and “temperature neutral” relative to all the different types of foam materials, how it feels to a particular individual is very personal and usually is the result of many interconnected variables including room temperature, humidity, sheets, bedding, and bedclothes, mattress protector or any mattress pads or toppers being used, and of course where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range. The firmness of the mattress and how much you sink into the mattress is also an important factor that can affect the sleeping temperature in addition to the fact that some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with.
There is more about tracking down a potential cause or causes for temperature regulation issues (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) in post #2 here.and the posts it links to that may be helpful, but generally speaking the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin.
A mattress breaths from all sides to different degrees and placing your mattress upon plywood would prevent the mattress ventilating from underneath which may be a large contributor to the heat buildup you are experiencing. You may wish to consider something like a coir bed rug under the mattress. or placing your mattress on firm breathable slated base that allows for sufficient air flow.
The waterproof mattress pad/protector you are using may have a significant effect on the temperature regulation because it can add to the insulating effect or to the moisture wicking effect of your mattress. You can see more about the effect of different mattress protectors in post #89 here.
The best way to track down where temperature issues are coming from would be to look at all the layers between your skin and the floor to see if any of them could be contributing to the temperature issue. Layers or materials that are closer to you and are more breathable and allow for more moisture wicking will help with temperature regulation issues while layers that allow for less airflow or moisture wicking that are closer to you can make them worse.
Your sheets are cotton so this shouldn’t be an issue and a 300 thread count would not be high enough to trap the heat. Linen sheets are probably the coolest sleeping type of fabric but they can also be costly. There is more about how different types of mattress protectors can affect sleeping temperature in post #89 here . Finally the next layers down would normally be the mattress itself which includes the cover and the top layers of foam.
Your blankets and bedding and the temperature or humidity of the room can also make a difference if there are no layers underneath you that can be changed that are part of the underlying cause of the temperature issue.
Wool is among the best temperature regulating material but I would also keep in mind that it regulates temperature in both directions (it’s used in the desert and also in cold climates because of this) so while it may not feel “cool” … it generally doesn’t feel “hot” either and it also helps to regulate moisture (which can trap heat) and reduce the perception of temperature that comes from higher humidity levels (similar to how temperatures feel cooler on less humid days than they do on more humid days).
In many cases changing the mattress protector, sheets, or bedding to cooler versions can make “enough” of a difference for many people who would otherwise sleep hot on a mattress. It would also be worth mentioning that your face and head is also a major part of how your body regulates temperature and a cooler pillow can sometimes make a surprising difference in how warm you sleep as well. Temperature issues are usually a combination of factors and can be a bit complex, but with a bit of experimenting and adjusting your sleeping microclimate, you’ll be able to get the cool and quality sleep and rest you are looking for.
I’ll be interested to learn about how you progress through your evaluation and any changes that you are able to make.
Phoenix