Mattress comfort layers - Memory foam

Regarding the process of breaking in a new mattress, some manufacturers instruct you to either walk on them going over the entire surface in small steps or to get on your hands and knees and similarly crawl over the mattress surface. Typically they suggest covering the mattress entirely two or three times to help break in some of the harder foams that may be used in the construction. I would only consider doing this after contacting the seller and/or manufacturer to be sure it won’t invalidate your warranty and is recommended for your specific mattress design. I tried one of Nest Bedding’s mattresses which was much too hard and painful for me to sleep on, and they recommended this process and said they do it in all their showrooms. It was very successful in immediately making the mattress more compliant and comfortable so that I could properly evaluate its suitability for me.

I need help with memory foam/polyfoam bed. I have a Tempurpedic Supreme Topper 3" on top of a brand new firm poly regular foam bed “base” and the issue is that I wake up with pressure pain I think in shoulders and in hips. So I think I dislike how firm the poly mattress is below my Tempurpedic or pretty convinced also that my waterproof cover is restricting the memory foam and the foam is not working ideally, maybe, and am awaiting my new really thin topper arriving Saturday hoping that will resolve everything). I love the tempurpedic material and I sleep great but every little while I have to wake up and turn over. I’m a side sleeper 98% of the time and sometimes wake up on my back. I have a fully adjustable amazing pillow and I’ve learned that I don’t need much fluff at all in it cause after the topper molds to me I want to maintain alignment so my pillow is calibrated. Here are my ideas: Add a high quality and med-soft 1 in layer of poly in between the mattress and topper, or add a pressure relief soft cheap 1" topper on top of the tempurpedic one (but afraid that’ll interfere with my Tempurpedic topper), or add the same pressure relief 1" topper but in middle not on top. Again, near perfect everything but a little tweak is needed. I feel like what is happening is that by late night I’ve got warmer and I sink mostly through the tempurpedic topper and the med-xtrafirm base mattress is causing the pain cause it’s a little too firm. I must fix this because I’m invested in now 2 brand new mattresses over the past 2 years and 1 brand new box spring and didn’t like the first mattress so created my own matress despite your recommendation a while ago not to build a bed… Well I’m a rebel clearly, and hopefully you can offer some guidance here to make this bed perfect. What do you recommend? I have no more room for mattresses. This mattress I’ve built has been equally the same since I got it about a year ago maybe. Not broken down any nor has the tempurtopper. Thanks so much for your advice!

Hi bradbaker1989,

I much enjoy the “rebellious” and creative side in action striving to get the DIY “Perfect”, I always have to remind myself that “my perfect” is not anyone else “perfect” … going past philosophy … In your case, you are not saying what the thickness of the base layer is but if I understand correctly your DIY has a single poly foam base and a really high quality 3" topper. For some people, a 6" + 3" can work perfectly fine but you seem to need to add a transition or comfort layer to mitigate some discomfort that you are experiencing throughout the night. There’s more simple explanations at the layers here and here.

This really is about your personal preference, but the addition of 1" of low-density cheap foam would be a weak link, get buried …even the “better quality” 1" may be borderline but as you need just a bit of tweaking may just work. Most mattresses are progressive in construction with softer / thinner layers on top. IMO 2" of a softer ILD on top and something like a 19 ILD Talalay latex or a memory foam high-quality topper would have better chances of success but I understand that you like the feeling of your topper. If you choose something to go below the Tempur Supreme, then to make it work you’d need a good density midrange ILD. You can read more about memory foam and latex foam comfort layers.

Of course, your budget may be part of your consideration, but how much tweak for pressure relief is needed, only you can decide. I would check out some of the trusted members, you will be able to find the right quality and value for your needs.

Also, in these shopping guidelines, there are a few good points about the pressure relieving in the comfort layers. All in all, you are heading in the right direction with improving your simple but good DIY construction mattress.

Let us know if you have an update or if you have any other questions. Thank you again for posting.

Phoenix

Hi Mia12345,

Thank you for the note. That is very funny tradeshow more “restful” than normal…not in hotel mattresses…but that is a totally different subject.

The good news - I found it!!! The Comforpedic Advance Rest

The bad news - trying to match this is not easy

Attached is a pdf from 2013. And specs list are as follows:

9½" Profile Height
• 1" AirCool® Memory Foam with TruTemp Gel
• 2" Advanced AirCool® Memory Foam
• 1" Luxury Firm Comfort Foam
• 2" Independent SupportTM Technology
• AirCool® Transflexion® Core
• AirCool® Edge Support
• AirCool® Mesh Border Fabric

What Comforpedic did really well back in 2013 was the use multiple layers above the base core to have enough transition layers, and comfort layers…as you have read in our articles about putting the layers together here and here. They say they had 6" of transition/comfort layers, (but really it was 5 inches as they use convoluted foam). This is somewhat confusing as it would mean their “core” was only 3.5 (or 4.5) inhces of base foam, which they called the “Air Cool Transflexion Foam” wich is just mattress lingo crap. Also, they give NO INFO on ILD/IFD or Density of foam, nothing to match or compare, and certainly no info that other brands can use. Which is typical of the Top 20, which Simmon/Serta is number 1.

What to do now? You will have a hard time finding this a local tradtional retailers. I know you did some research with online companies, but I would work on checking into our trusted members
.

As you mentioned some of the “custom” companies may be better for you, and you will need to possibly buy a topper to go on the mattress to help find the proper balance. Some of the people that can do this are Sleep EZ, Luma, Arizona Premium, Flo Beds…I may be missing some other from our member list.

I also attached a pic and the PDF brochure from 2013 and a screenshot from 2013 website of comforpedic.

I know this is really frustrating and difficult, keep chipping away at it, and you will get there I am sure. Please message if you have more questions, we are glad to help any way we can.

Thank you,
Sensei

I am in a situation that is frustrating and need some significant I am in a situation that is frustrating and need some advice. I Purchased a mattress from Relax The Back called a Pure Relax memory foam in a king size. This was apparently manufactured by anatomic global/FXI. I have asked for a replacement due to a sagging middle and they have agreed to a replacement.

I would actually prefer to get my money back, or be able to purchase something different through Relax The Back, but that is not how this works apparently. I have been offered to get a replacement Of either their Anew or rejuvagel lines. I have no idea which product is better, and cannot find much online to compare them. I am stuck picking between these two and have no idea what they even feel like. Relax The Back does not sell their product anymore, so that creates a barrier as well.

I have significant arthritis throughout my entire spine, but most of my pain is in my thoracic back. I do have fiber myalgia and auto immune disorders that creates significant joint and chronic pain issues. I can definitely feel anything, even a wrinkled sheet is sometimes painful in my sleep. I am a side and occasionally a back sleeper. I definitely need to know which way to go if you can help me out.

I have no idea if I put this question in the incorrect place, so if I did I apologize.

Thank you for any help you can give!

Hi Pwright1800,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

I moved your post to a new topic. I am sorry to hear about the multiple health conditions and about the sagging of your current mattress… I certainly understand your frustration and why you would rather have your money back than a replacement. As you found out in your research, there is little meaningful information about Rejuvagel (Rejuvigel) on their site or online in general, but you can read some comments on our site here about Rejuvigel.

Did you buy these at the Relax the back stores? Can you go and lay down and test the replacement mattresses? Or … do you have to choose blind w/o having the chance to try them? I looked up Rejuvagel, it is Rejuvigel by FXI, and google search shows different retailers, none of these show any information on websites about the product specifications and other details.

As far as Anew mattresses go, I did find some specs:

Anew 5 Mattress
Description: 12" Plush
Warranty: 10/20
Cover: Super Stretch W/ PCM’s
2" Activus Foam
3" 4lb Gel Memory Foam
7" 1.8 @ 35 ILD Poly Base Foam

Anew 6 Mattress
Description: 14" Ultra Plush
Warranty 10/20
Cover Super Stretch W/ PCM’s
3" Activus Foam
4" 4lb Gel Memory Foam
7" 1.8 @ 35 ILD Poly Base Foam

Both of these products do not have any “obvious weak links” for a normal range BMI sleeper but it is impossible for me or anyone else to make a recommendation and tell which one would be better for you, it is different for every person. I am checking specs with an industry contact regarding the Rejuvigel and will update if I hear anything.

I am sorry to hear about the complex health issues you are experiencing. A forum search on fibromyalgia (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback from others that are in similar circumstances that may be helpful (but it will also confirm that there isn’t a single “best” combination of materials that will work for everyone with arthritis or fibromyalgia) and that nothing can replace your own personal testing, especially with specific health considerations. You’d obviously want to consider something that allows for enough surface comfort while sleeping upon your side, that as assists with enough pressure point relief to help with some of your high sensitivity, while still overall being resilient enough and provide enough support while sleeping. Overall, the two basic functions of a mattress are to support and to provide comfort (you can read more about this here), with alignment usually being the first priority and then comfort coming second.

While we can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing.

Even though you may just be testing these replacements, the mattress shopping tutorial can be very helpful for many people. Additionally, this how-to guide lays out many of our foundational principles on TMU.

I look forward to finding out what you decide and will certainly return here to update if we find more meaningful spec details on the Rejuvigel.

Phoenix

Hi,

I wanted to circle back to say thank you for the incredible research and intel on the Comforpedic!!! The radio silence has been because I was hoping to write back triumphantly with great news, but I’m still chipping away.

I think where we landed last was needing to go a more custom route if I wanted something similar to the Comforpedic. Aiming for multiple inches of comfort layers and knowing that I like the feeling of sleeping on memory foam. The latex I’ve tried have all been to “firm” (feeling like I’m lying on something too hard so my butt and tail bone can’t sink in).

I’ve continued to test various components and found a local custom mattress person who built me something with an assortment of layers. I’ve been working with:

  • 6in flexible individually wrapped springs which I’m pretty sure I don’t like the pushiness of
    -2 in. dunlop latex layer which has firmness issue mentioned above
    -assortment of MF layers/toppers - nice quality 2 in. gel 6lbs, and 3 in. 4lbs and cheapo Bed Bath Beyond quality 1.5 in. (not sure density) and 3 in 2lbs
    -Two 1 in. polyfoam layers labeled “16” and “23”

So, far nothing has felt comfortable. That said, I haven’t actually slept on all the variations. I eliminated some that felt too weird or left me achy after a few minutes lie-down, but do wonder if a couple nights are needed to actually know?

The most frequent issues are a) being comfier in the moment, but my butt sinking in too far and hurting/deep aches when I wake up, b) being uncomfy in the moment because it feels like my butt/tail bone is digging into a rock and hurting in different places than (a) when I wake up. (a) happens more with the thicker MF toppers, and (b) when I try something “firmer.”

I think I need to find some additional memory foam layers/toppers to work with - ones with amazing pressure relief and contour (to let me sink, but not too much and also be “plush” feeling) and perhaps thinner (the 3 in. feels the best to lie on, but maybe is too thick and would be perfect as 1.5). So, I’m going to look for some new layers from the recommended members here (though so far, most seem to specialize in latex, not MF) as well as go back to my local custom person (who unfortunately, isn’t a fan of MF).

The real problem here is that I completely lack the “spirit of adventure” described on TMU as part of the DIY option. Instead, I seem to have fallen into it by necessity :frowning: and I’m not sure what to do about that.

Given this, I’m wondering if finding a topper or two to put on top of an existing memory foam mattress (I still have the Novosbed soft, which I find way too solid with not enough sink), might be easier. Does that make any sense? Should I turn it upside down to really approximate using it like a MF core/base (so the polyfoam base is at the top and then I can add comfort and transition layers - or is that crazy)?

If you have any other advice, particularly rules I could use, such as go from softer to firmer with layers, that would be great. Or if it feels like I’m sinking too much into the top layer, then it doesn’t matter what I put under it (right?). I know this is a Goldilocks endeavor, where only I will be able to feel what’s right, but since I mostly just feel confused when I lie down lately, any rules or scientific methods would be appreciated. For example, a way to measure how far my butt sinks in.

I can’t wait for this to end. As always, thanks! The expertise and moral support is much appreciated!

Hey Mia12345,

Thanks for the post, no worries about the radio silence, and thank you for the kind words.

Let me answer some of the questions and some misc points. Totally understand about the sense of adventure and DIY, but you wouldn’t be the first to do a “DIY Light”, shall we say….just make some adjustments and you know may just work for x amount of years.

Even if you are not totally into it there are some basics that have proven to be clearly successful. A quick read of putting the layers together overview is helpful, to know differential and progressive construction. More details on differential hereand progressive here. I think you should start with progressive layering firmer / thicker height - more plush / thinner height.

As you know, latex and memory foam are very different materials with very different properties, and your preference is memory foam. But… if you were to get any latex I would say look for a 2" or 3" 19-22 ILD Talalay topper, this plush Talalay can work with most memory foam toppers, or on it’s own on top of a mattress.

The latex you tried is not the right choice for you, too firm, not his fault, it probably just what he had. Maybe your local guy can get a 19ild topper? Or, buy one as you know, a lot of the trusted members have Talalay toppers. Sleep EZ, Arizona Premium. Flo Beds, and Foam Sweet Foam…to name a few.

No not crazy at all, you should do this!!!

It will be interesting how you view the difference between the coil unit. Do you know the manufacturer of the coil unit? Model #? Do you know the specs of the Novosbed? Probably best to try combos on the foam, better chance to get where you want to be. Try the Novosbed, how long ago did you purchase this? No Amerisleep? Try it first regular side up, you could turn it over, but try that later.

Make topper combos - higher density below lower densities. lower height on top of higher height.

Example - Top - 1.5 inch one of the better ones you like / 2nd Layer - 2.0 inch 6lb Gel (wish this was 3"). You may need a good high quality 3" 5lb memory foam.

The 19 ILD topper 2" can be used over the 2" 6lb, 3" 4lb, or the 2" Dunlop. And over the 3" 5lb (if you get this). This may work a lot easier, I would be interested. Plus it feels more like what you used to like. Not innerspring but foam bed with good layers. But you have to sleep on your favorite (s) and give it some time, if you find one you like.

Ask any quick questions if I am not making sense :).

It is nice to hear back from you…

Sensei

Hi Sensei,

Thanks again! Good to know I’m on track with the next step and that does mostly make sense.

I looked at the list of recommended places to buy MF toppers/layers on this site. I’ve purchased a 1 in. 4lb from Foamorder (on its way) since I liked the feel of the 3 in. 4 lb I have, but my butt was sinking in too far.

But, I’m not finding a good 2 or 3 in. 5 lb from that short list. Sadly, Memory Foam Comfort doesn’t seem to ship to the US or else I could get their 2 in. 5 lb. I’m not sure where else to look for a good quality one! I did also find a reversible layer of 1 in. 4lb attached to 1 in. 5lb.

Based on your message, I’m planning to try combinations like: 1.5 in. lower density/cheap one I had, 1 in. 4 lb, 2 in. 6lb, on top of the Novosbed Soft.

I’m not sure about the specs for Novosbed Soft. I see others reporting on Medium and Firm on https://mattressunderground.com/talk-to-the-experts/expert-member-section/memory-foam-comfort-f/22066-new-novosbed-mattress-its-layers.html?start=0 TMU. I can try to call them, but I think it’s something like:
-2 in. 3.7lbs Gel MF?
-3 in 4lb MF?
-7 in premium support foam

So, the layering isn’t quite progressing because below the toppers it goes back to lower density again. I also received their Comfort Plus soft topper 2 in. 1.8 lb, but it’s not MF.

I do still have the Amerisleep mattress, but was going to return it soon because of the intense feeling of overarch in my lower back that I get (which I feel even with the 3 in. 4lb topper on it), unless there’s reason to think it’d be a better “base” than the Novosbed.

Is there really no objective, at-home way to measure how far you sink into a mattress? I’m craving more data and science and less “how does it feel to you?”

Thanks again. It’s almost a year since losing my previous comfortable bed and this is getting so old!

Hey Mia1234,

Nice to hear from you. If you can’t find any 5lb memory foam then you can still get them on Amazon or one of the foam order online companies, they do still carry good quality foam, and I can get back to you if you have a question on one of the companies.

The specs you listed are still “progressing” because the base core for a poly foam/memory foam bed is always a 1.8 or 2.0 lb high-density foam, so this isn’t what we refer to in progressing as its the support core, progressing is usually relative to comfort layers.

I don’t know any at home ways to get data…I have heard of people rigging up a camera /computer and take pictures from the side to see one’s alignment on the mattress.

Any luck with a 19ILD Talalay?

Thanks
Sensei

Thanks, Sensei!

I’d love to order from a TMU trusted member, but am just having trouble finding ones that ship to US with memory foam toppers of the kind you were suggesting (have 4lbs/4.5lbs covered with two in that range already). Very open to suggestions.

Searching around Amazon for 5 lbs, I see these brands:
Memory Foam Solutions
DreamDNA

There are other options for 3 lbs, which I don’t currently have either. Places where you can try out memory foam toppers would be awesome!

Is there anything to take into account when deciding which MF mattress to use as a “base”? I’m within the sleep trial still, so could return the Novosbed if it doesn’t seem like a good “base,” especially if it’s better to just buy an actual foam base/core.

I guess I meant not progressing because under the 2 to 3 toppers will be the comfort layers of the Novosbed, which are less dense than the topper above it. But, if this is normal DIY light, as you say, then that works for me! Again, complete lack of adventure here :slight_smile: and interested in following successful footsteps of others so as to be comfortable again asap. If you’ve seen other posts like mine, please link away. I tried to search the forum, but haven’t come across anything.

I think I found a local store with a Talalay 19ILD topper so I’ll try to get there (but low hopes given how I’ve felt lying on Talalay mattresses).

As always, thanks for listening!

Hey Mia1234,

Thanks for the post. I see what you mean on the 5lb topper from USA members. I believe the MFS would be perfectly fine to try, and the Amazon return process is consumer friendly.

Just a point of reference, the 19ild Talalay when used on top of a memory foam topper will provide a feel that is different than the “Talalay mattresses” you had tried in the past. I am not sure those were the best “latex feels” out there.

Regarding the base mattress, what was the Amerisleep mattress model that you also have. I think the model with the more “durable” base would probably be the better choice. Forward it to me again, and I will try to look at the differences in these two.

Thanks,
Sensei

Hi Sensei,

Thanks!

I’ve purchased the MFS 2 in. 5lb topper.

It’s the Amerisleep AS4. But, my sleep trial done in a couple weeks, whereas I have some more time with the Novosbed to try out the newly ordered layers. In terms of feel, the Novosbed is more uniform and “firm,” whereas the AS4 does some weird arch-thing in just my lower back.

Here are the Novosbed specs as provided by them:
Soft:
1" - 3.7lb / 8 IFD - 5th generation high-density gel visco-elastic memory foam
1" - 1.95 lb / 9 IFD - 5th generation premium airflow foam
2" - Plush 2.5lb / 12IFD - 5th generation open-cell pneumatic memory foam
7" - 1.75 lb / 32 IFD - Premium support foam

Does it make sense to stick some not MF/polyfoam layers in between the MF layers? I have two different 1 inch polyfoam layers. It’s funny to think that before this I thought of beds as one uniform object and now they only exist as layers.

Thanks again!

Hey Mia1234,

Well, even though we know it is “layers in a mattress”, you are right in a way as they are all connected together, laminated together, making up one single feel, with everything working together. So when adding toppers to a mattress…it really is like adding to one unit. So for the sake of the DIY lite, don’t worry too much as to exactly what the top layers are in the Novosbed, and just build up your one or two layers on top.

Also, you may want to try the toppers under a mattress pad, and under the fitted sheet? Are you doing this already? Sometimes mattress pad can firm up your toppers a little…which may be a good thing, just food for thought as you “test” more.

Sensei

Thanks, Sensei! That makes sense. I am trying them under the fitted sheet and some of the toppers have comfy covers on them too.

If you end up with any thoughts about Novosbed as a “base,” just getting an actual foam base, or trying harder to make the Amerisleep a base, I’m all ears! Thanks again.

Hey Mia1234

Just fyi, once you mentioned the Amerisleep gave you some kind of “arching” thing, I didnt really compare the two products. I did do a quick lookup on the Amerisleep AS4 and I have to say that I don’t really even know what this layer is:

It may be that this “zoning” they have in this layer, does have too much firmness and/or pushback on your hips/lower back area. It seems like this may not be the right one to try to improve as we may be trying to overcome other variables that don’t work for you. Just my thoughts after taking a look at the Amerisleep AS4.

Have a good weekend.

Sensei

Hi Sensei,

Thanks for the thoughts on the Amerisleep - that makes a lot of sense!

I wanted to circle back to the question about buying a polyfoam core/base vs building off the existing Novosbed. I felt like I was on the right track, but yesterday was one of the warmest days we’ve had this year and the bed felt completely different. I woke up with nerve compression/tingly feet :frowning: I know temperature changes MF feel, but it seems a bit much to have winter vs summer versions of my bed layers!

Mostly, I’m wondering if the 3 inches of MF in the top comfort layers in the Novosbed aren’t stable enough to build on, since they’re so impacted by the warmer weather (1" - 3.7lb / 8 IFD and 2" - Plush 2.5lb / 12IFD)?

Would it be better to build on an actual polyfoam support core? If so, I’m having trouble finding a list of places to get a core/recommendations on polyfoam cores from TMU (might not be searching for right keywords…).

Or should I continue to focus on the few inches of MF I’m adding on top? Last night, it felt like I was going right through the top MF comfort layer/topper…again maybe bc of the warmer weather. When MF gets warm, I think that means that my whole body “goes through” or compresses more (not just the heavier hips/butt) and hits the firmer layer underneath, in which case, I’d want to add in another comfort layer to cushion? I really wish I understood the physics here more!

Thank you again!

Hey Mia,

You do point out the memory foam and temperature issues, it is a fact with memory foam that warmer temperatures do cause the foam to soften much quicker.

Your logic about starting out and building on a “foam core” is theoretically better than trying to manage an existing mattress as a base. And then the “traditional memory foam” temperature issue will be there going forward. I was hoping the “DIY lite” may help relieve some of the short term issues.

I am going to check a few of the members and see about the core, if not then you may have to order from one of the recognized foam suppliers. I will forward some of these links later today.

Thanks
Sensei

Hi Sensei,

Thanks so much!

I’m curious if there are any general principles for how to adjust layers when seasons change and seeking a greater understanding of what actually happens. Is the issue that the MF compresses more in warmer temperatures (hence my feeling of going " right through" my top comfort layer)? If so, do people just add in an additional comfort layer when the weather gets hotter? Should this be something that is similar to what they had already - just more of it so as not to “go through” - or something firmer, softer? If polyfoam is less reactive, then is adding an additional layer of that the way to adjust vs MF?

As always, thank you! I did a quick count of how many iterations/combinations of layers I’ve tested in just the last few months and lost track around 55…I’d like to believe we’re in the home stretch here! Just feeling like my sensitivity to the temperature change has thrown a wrench in.

Happy weekend, Mia12345

Hey Mia1234,

Happy Memorial day weekend to you.

You make an interesting point about memory foam and what people do during different seasons? Quite frankly I believe the majority of people just get used to the changes, either the dramatic or the subtle ones and don’t adjust at all.

There is some really good information about memory foam in this article, that you may or may not have read…memory foam pros and cons.

[quote]If polyfoam is less reactive, then is adding an additional layer of that the way to adjust vs MF?
[/quote]

Yes, in theory, this is correct but the issue is is that poly foam that is 1.8lb or 2.0lb density is used as a support core and are not as advantageous as comfort layers. What is becoming more popular are the approx 3.0 to 4.0 lb polyfoams that are an instant recovery that act more like latex foam, and are not as temperature sensitive as traditional memory foam. I am not sure if any of members sell this type of foam as toppers. I will be looking at some of their sites today and will let you know if I see any of this kind. Did you get to try the 19ild Talalay?

Thanks again, I really hope we are close.

Sensei