Thanks for the thoughts on the Amerisleep - that makes a lot of sense!
I wanted to circle back to the question about buying a polyfoam core/base vs building off the existing Novosbed. I felt like I was on the right track, but yesterday was one of the warmest days weāve had this year and the bed felt completely different. I woke up with nerve compression/tingly feet I know temperature changes MF feel, but it seems a bit much to have winter vs summer versions of my bed layers!
Mostly, Iām wondering if the 3 inches of MF in the top comfort layers in the Novosbed arenāt stable enough to build on, since theyāre so impacted by the warmer weather (1" - 3.7lb / 8 IFD and 2" - Plush 2.5lb / 12IFD)?
Would it be better to build on an actual polyfoam support core? If so, Iām having trouble finding a list of places to get a core/recommendations on polyfoam cores from TMU (might not be searching for right keywordsā¦).
Or should I continue to focus on the few inches of MF Iām adding on top? Last night, it felt like I was going right through the top MF comfort layer/topperā¦again maybe bc of the warmer weather. When MF gets warm, I think that means that my whole body āgoes throughā or compresses more (not just the heavier hips/butt) and hits the firmer layer underneath, in which case, Iād want to add in another comfort layer to cushion? I really wish I understood the physics here more!
You do point out the memory foam and temperature issues, it is a fact with memory foam that warmer temperatures do cause the foam to soften much quicker.
Your logic about starting out and building on a āfoam coreā is theoretically better than trying to manage an existing mattress as a base. And then the ātraditional memory foamā temperature issue will be there going forward. I was hoping the āDIY liteā may help relieve some of the short term issues.
I am going to check a few of the members and see about the core, if not then you may have to order from one of the recognized foam suppliers. I will forward some of these links later today.
Iām curious if there are any general principles for how to adjust layers when seasons change and seeking a greater understanding of what actually happens. Is the issue that the MF compresses more in warmer temperatures (hence my feeling of going " right through" my top comfort layer)? If so, do people just add in an additional comfort layer when the weather gets hotter? Should this be something that is similar to what they had already - just more of it so as not to āgo throughā - or something firmer, softer? If polyfoam is less reactive, then is adding an additional layer of that the way to adjust vs MF?
As always, thank you! I did a quick count of how many iterations/combinations of layers Iāve tested in just the last few months and lost track around 55ā¦Iād like to believe weāre in the home stretch here! Just feeling like my sensitivity to the temperature change has thrown a wrench in.
You make an interesting point about memory foam and what people do during different seasons? Quite frankly I believe the majority of people just get used to the changes, either the dramatic or the subtle ones and donāt adjust at all.
There is some really good information about memory foam in this article, that you may or may not have readā¦memory foam pros and cons.
[quote]If polyfoam is less reactive, then is adding an additional layer of that the way to adjust vs MF?
[/quote]
Yes, in theory, this is correct but the issue is is that poly foam that is 1.8lb or 2.0lb density is used as a support core and are not as advantageous as comfort layers. What is becoming more popular are the approx 3.0 to 4.0 lb polyfoams that are an instant recovery that act more like latex foam, and are not as temperature sensitive as traditional memory foam. I am not sure if any of members sell this type of foam as toppers. I will be looking at some of their sites today and will let you know if I see any of this kind. Did you get to try the 19ild Talalay?
Thanks again for the helpful offer to think about members who provide 3 or 4lb polyfoam layers or foam cores.
In the meantime, Iāve turned the Novosbed upside down to approximate a memory foam support core/base, but I canāt imagine this is as effective as just buying an actual core/base? Or as affordable?
Iāve been trying to build up as suggested as similar to the previously loved Comforpedic:
-1-2 inches of less dense memory foam thatās comfy (1.8 to 4lb),
-1-2 inches of polyfoam,
-then higher density 1-2 inches MF (5 or 6lb),
-then core/base.
As you pointed out, an issue might be that I only have low density polyfoam. I donāt even know what the ā16ā and ā23ā layers I have are! The Novosbed Comfortplus topper is 1.8lbs, ILD 9 PF.
I havenāt gotten to try any 19ILD talalay yet, but hope to soon. I think youāre implying that this latex is an alternative to the 3 or 4lb PF idea?
Unfortunately, Iām feeling under the gun having to decide about the Novosbed within the sleep trial and given the new nerve compression that I canāt shake, so all suggestions greatly appreciated!
Thank you for the post.
You are correct turning the Novasbed upside down is not going to be more effective than just buying an actual core base; itās really used as a trial to see if you can approximate the mattress that is best for you.
The only caution I have is that be careful of the polyfoam layers that are not memory foam. As transition layers and a mattress they can be helpful but as you put them on top of a polyfoam they really are part of your comfort layers.
Regarding the 19 ILD talalay topper, I donāt really think of it as a replacement of anything in particular, more of these best latex comfort layer for pressure relief. If you had that, and 4+ lb. memory foam, I would use the Talalay above memory foam. These two material technologies, memory foam and latex act as excellent pressure relieving layers. Any miscellaneous polyfoam layers 1.8 or 1.9, 16 or 23. Etcā¦I think of what use are they. They can be good as a transition from base support core to comfort layers.
Understood on the Novasbed, I hate to ask this, as I donāt want to throw you way off, but in any of your retail visits have you tried any hybrid/latex or hybrid memory foam beds? Some members have excellent exchange programs for the topper/comfort layers, and the pocketed coil bases make for excellent support cores.
Regarding PF as comfort layers, I was just building off of the Comforpedic specs which list not-MF comfort layers and your suggestion to look into 3 or 4 lb PF, since what I have currently is too low density to work. If Iām understanding your suggestion correctly, then if any members sell 3 or 4lb non-MF, Iād be very interested in that!
Iāll order a foam core to build off of, maybe medium (like 1.75 lb / 32 IFD like the Novosbed had) to be safe (since easier to make softer than it is to make something firmer with top layers). Sad that DIY lite hasnāt quite panned out using the existing Novosbed Soft I had, but good to know that it has been feeling better using that approximation than back when I had an innerspring core.
I have laid on a bunch of hybrids at the stores and found them all to be āpushyā when compared to the not-hybrids ā even finding latex āpushy,ā but going to try to find some 19ild Talalay as youāve recommended to test as a comfort layer.
This sometimes can get very confusing my apologies if I sent you in the wrong direction. I do not think you should be looking for three or 4-pound polyfoam. I do think you should look for three or 4-pound memory foam that is a better approximation of the field that you had indicated you like.
Regarding the base foam core, it is recommended that 1.8lb is the minimum density. 35IFD is good. Noted on the hybrid mattresses I remember now. Noted on the latex mattress, you are not the only one that has this āissueā with latex.
Yes, I definitely was barking up the wrong tree based on your previous post. This is confusing stuff!
So:
-lower density MF
-higher density MF
-low density polyfoam or latex if I find one thatās not too āpushyā as transition layers
-foam base
If you know any good posts that go through DIY memory foam bed recommended build specs/ advice, Iām all ears. Hoping to make this quick and painless. Will try to approximate the Comforpedic as much as possible given that there were no details on densities or ILDā¦Thanks!
So I was looking back at the brochure, and wanted to look at the layers againā¦so I then decided to see if I can find some other ILD info. So I googled āaircool transflexion coreā and I found some other sites discussing this mattress from 2013/14/15ā¦but I also found websites that have it for sale still, but I am sure they are not available.
I want to find exact specs on this bed, it now bothers me, because this foam is readily available I am sureā¦I will message you if I find something from a Simmons executive I know pretty well. Weāll see.
I also decided to google āComforpedic Advanced Rest Luxury Firmā againā¦and on this Amazon link (product unavailable, of course) I found these specs: (Bold - good info / Red - no density info)
(Ignore the Edge support, no way you could replicate that)
Thanks for looking into this again! Thatās good intel!
Just to make sure Iām understanding - the 1" Firm Comfort Foam must be polyfoam thatās not memory foam (or else they would have just said āmemory foamā)? Which is another reason why I was thinking of sandwiching MF, other foam, MF in my layers.
It looks like the company Future Foam made the foam in the Comforpedic, but I didnāt see a way to tell which of their still-available toppers would be related. And per previous post, they werenāt able to provide Comforpedic details (told me to call Simmons) when I called (but did seem very nice).
I did buy a 1 inch 4lb from foamorder based on posts Iād read. It feels nice enough and could definitely get other layers there as needed.
I finally found a 19 ILD Talalay topper to try. It was definitely different than the Dunlop, but still felt too pushy/bouncy to warrant spending the money. Good to try though!
Fingers crossed that your Simmons contact has more ideas!
Yes, the 1" inch would be polyfoam, or else they would say memory foamā¦totally correct.
Sometimes these days companies are using āfast responseā foam which is more like memory foam but not as āslow recoveryāā¦and good quality for pressure reliefā¦but thatās not what we are talking about.
ok on foamorderā¦and I totally understand about the pushy bouncy 19ildā¦glad you could see it was different. No worries.
Have not heard from Simmons friendā¦so possibly early next week.
Talk soon, sorry about the delay in getting back to you.
Thanks again! Iām feeling a little stuck as the Novosbed was returned and Iām now back on the springs bed, which just doesnāt work for me. In an effort to make things easier, I had asked the local custom mattress guy to just purchase me a foam core to build off of, per previous advice. But I just found out that he didnāt and instead has a MF bed for me to try upside down as a core that is cheap/basic/with no density or IFD info. Given that folks discuss DIY mattresses here, I imagine there must be places to get a foam core and know specs of what youāre buying, so Iām not sure why he didnāt just do that as askedā¦but honestly, Iām having trouble finding a good source on my own. Any advice on where to find a good quality foam core?
Still hopeful you might get additional intel on some of the comfort layers from the Comforpedic in case we can purchase/replicate as well. But, I imagine the base is the least finicky component and something I can try to find in the meantime.
Itās pretty rough sleeping here so thanks again!
Apologies, I totally missed the āconventional foam blocksā option on Foamorder, which I have to assume is basically a core for DIY. Iāll plan to just call Foamorder to choose the kind of foam to select for my needs (and what I can find in past TMU posts using that company).
Is there a TMU guidance page with suggestions for DIY foam mattress? For example, do I need a cover on that blockā¦
This is all based on the assumption that using a core foam block makes more sense than purchasing a MF mattress and turning upside down per previous discussion.
And Iāll still keep my fingers crossed on your contact. I think you were hoping theyād have leads on where to get MF layers similar to the Comforpedic, but from your last post, maybe you are saying not to worry/hold my breath about the polyfoam layers in between? I guess Iām confused because if I was trying to get close to my previous experience, that would require polyfoam comfort layers too?
As always, thank you! I hope Iām not incoherent from lack of sleep
No info yet on the Simmons guy, first guy I called is working for another company, so he gave me a lead on some marketing people at Simmons and one Future Foam perosnā¦but itās about timing as itās hard to figure when I get the person that still has the info. And I hate to have it hold up any of your direction.
Ok noted on the foamorder, yes they have blocks of poly foamā¦of course a memory foam mattress turned upside down can āworkā it just seems like you are paying for some memory foam that is wasted on the bottomā¦thatās my only hold up.
One thing that I have to make sure I say, is even if we find the exact densities and exact foam that was used, doing this DIY will not replicate the feel of the Comforpedic, as the manufacturing one finished mattress, and using a sewn edge versus a zipper cover, and adhering the layers together, etc etc, it wonāt feel the same. I am going to post a variety of links and different posts in my next reply that will have links to numerous discussions about the DIY process.
Below are some posts taken from other DIY threads and answers:
If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project ā¦ the best approach to a DIY mattress is a āspirit of adventureā where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).
[i]Outside of a mattress with more layers having more options to customize the mattress, if a mattress is a good match for you, then one isnāt inherently any better than the other.
If you are planning to remove and replace all the foam layers in your mattress and only re-use the cover and you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components that are purchased from one or several different sources then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project ā¦ the best approach to a DIY mattress is a āspirit of adventureā where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).
There is also more about primary or ādeepā support and secondary or āsurfaceā support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the ārolesā of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between āsupportā and āpressure reliefā and āfeelā that may be useful as well.
For those who decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP as a reference point or blueprint and try and āmatchā every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or alternatively use a ābottom-upā approach (see post #2 here).
Some of the better online options Iām aware of that ship mattresses and/or foam layers and components (memory foam, polyfoam, and latex) across Canada are also listed in post #21 here and I also added a few additional options to the list today as well.
Thanks for all the links, Sensei! I had to take a pause for an unrelated medical procedure, sigh, but Iām finally able to pick up the bed build again. And the foam core I ordered has arrived.
Definitely, I understand that it will be different and every little tweak feels different, but I see the recommendation to start by trying to approximate what you know you like, so trying to channel the Comforpedic Luxury Firm.
I think weāre still hoping for more info on the āAirCool Memory Foamā from the Comforpedic? In the meantime, I see how I already have/can get 4 and 4.5 lb MF layers (albeit not knowing the ILD). But, I donāt know how to approximate ā1ā Firm Comfort Foam." ??
In the meantime Iām starting with:
-comfort: 3 inches or so MF (trying the various combos I have in the 4-5 lb range, such as the 1 inch 4.5 lb from foamorder and 2 inch 5lb from MFS mentioned here previously)
-transition: 2 inch Dunlop latex or two 1 inch polyfoams labeled ā16ā or ā23ā
-core: 5 inch DuraFlexā¢ D30 Firm foam
So far, nothing quite right, but Iāve only just started again. But, Iām just also wondering if I should try to find another completely different feeling memory foam that āholdsā better than the ones I have, which arenāt that substantial feeling and compress so easily.
I am building a queen mattress from a 6 year old Beauty Rest with wrapped coils. I removed all the old cheap foam. I purchased a 19ILD Blended Talalay Latex topper(Arizona Mattress)and placed on top of the coils and put a mattress pad on it for now. I am a side sleeper with shoulder and hip pain and pressure thatās why I went with the 19ILD that was suggested by Arizona mattress.
I love the topper I received from them, but now I could use a little more support/ firmness to my hip area. I seem to sink in too much and I only weigh 170 -175lbs
I was thinking another layer of Blended Talalay latex in Medium, I believe that is around 28 - 30 ILD and place that between the coils and the 19ILD comfort layer. What would you recommend and any suggestions would be appreciated and helpful.
2nd question: I have been shopping Sleep on Latex and they list there toppers as a Dunlop latex with a Talalay process to make it feel more in- between feeling, do you know / understand what they are talking about. I reached out to them and maybe you can explain this a little better. If I am getting the information correctly It sounds like it could be the product I am looking for over the Blended Talalay latex. Again what would be your suggestion and experience to the products that I have listed. I forgot to addā¦that I purchased a 3" 19ILD Blended Talalay topper and was looking into adding a 2" or 3" Medium 28- 30ILD Dunlop or Blended Talalay for a support / firmness. What would you recommend?
Welcome to the TMU Forum and thanks for your questions .
[quote]I am building a queen mattress from a 6 year old Beauty Rest with wrapped coils. I removed all the old cheap foam. I purchased a 19ILD Blended Talalay Latex topper(Arizona Mattress)and placed on top of the coils and put a mattress pad on it for now. I am a side sleeper with shoulder and hip pain and pressure thatās why I went with the 19ILD that was suggested by Arizona mattress.
I love the topper I received from them, but now I could use a little more support/ firmness to my hip area. I seem to sink in too much and I only weigh 170 -175lbs. I was thinking another layer of Blended Talalay latex in Medium, I believe that is around 28 - 30 ILD and place that between the coils and the 19ILD comfort layer. What would you recommend and any suggestions would be appreciated and helpful.[/quote]
Congrats on your topper purchase from @ArizonaPremiumMattress, glad to hear youāre happy with it. Just curious, did you check in with them regarding your comfort layer/ support questions?
This question refers to @SleepOnLatex/ their Earthfoam natural latex foam production process, as they are a TMU Trusted Member, think it would be interesting to hear those details from them. BTW, are there any updates on your DIY mattress project?
Since Iām not sure how to start a new thread Iāll ask this hereā¦
With the rise of bed in the box companies some of them are marketing their memory foam as ones that donāt responded to heat but just to the pressure so no matter the temperature in the room itās always a consistent feel, some are 4lb and seems of quality. Who makes these as 2" toppers? I much prefer the idea of memory foam that doesnāt respond to heat to keep the mattress as cool as possible. Also, how do those compare to the ones that respond to heat like Tempur-Pedic?
I know temperature changes MF feel, but it seems a bit much to have winter vs summer versions of my bed layers!