Mattress for heavy couple

My wife and I hate our current mattress and are wondering if you could recommend something better for us. I am about 330lbs and my wife is heavy as well. Our current mattress is about 2 years old and is constructed of: 3" of 4lb gel memory foam, 2" of 5lb memory foam and 8" of 1.5lb Poly foam. This mattress has broken down significantly, and we can feel a huge difference between the areas where we lay and where it isn’t worn out so much. I think we need to get something on the firm side and made out of durable materials. My wife also complains about the mattress being hot. From what I have read here, our issue has probably occurred because of the lower density 1.5lb Poly and 4lb gel foam. This current mattress gives us both back pain, and we just don’t feel rested in the mornings.

We have a local small inner spring mattress manufacturer who has a really good local reputation. Here is their website if you would like to see a bit more about them: http://www.classicbeddingmanufacturing.com/ I emailed them about the construction and materials and received this response: “Our firmest mattress uses the 368 coil offset unit - 12 1/2 gauge coils with a 6 gauge border wire. Foam is 100% polyurethane 1835 at 1 1/4” thick" from some further research, it appears that is a 1.8lb poly foam which does concern me based on information I found to stick with 2.0lb or higher. I am uncertain at this point if this company will do something custom.

Another option I am looking at is the Brooklyn Bedding which has 2" of Talalay latex, 2" of Dunlop latex, and 6" of 2.0lb poly foam.

How much better would a 100% latex mattress be? From what I’ve found, I’m just not sure that they would be in the budget.

I’m looking for any other info or suggestions that you can provide.

Hi blaster668,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

A high BMI presents special challenges and generally requires firmer materials (in the support layers especially). This could be firmer latex or innersprings (the type of support component would be a personal preference and in the right design either could be suitable) or even a zoned construction. The same overall guidelines apply with higher weights though that PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) along with using high quality durable materials that will maintain their feel and performance for longer periods of time are the way to make the best choices. Heavier people in general will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter and because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. I wouldn’t “rule out” any types of mattress and base your choices on your own personal testing. Post #3 here (which I think you may have already found) has more information and suggestions about heavier weights that is worth reading.

As a brief synopsis, higher BMI ranges will need more durable materials and components in a mattress and in a BMI range of 30 or higher I would include any 1.8 lb polyfoam or 4 lb memory foam as a “lower quality/density” material (relative to a higher BMI only) and minimize their use to a total of “about an inch or so or less” in the mattress. For polyurethane foam, if your mattress is one sided then I would look for 2.0 lb per cubic foot density or higher. If the mattress is two sided then I would use a minimum density of 1.8 lbs per cubic foot or higher. For memory foam (or gel memory foam), if your mattress is one sided then I would make sure that any memory foam is at least 5 lb per cubic foot. If the mattress is two sided then I would use a minimum density of 4 lbs per cubic foot.

As you’re aware, the lower 1.5 lb polyfoam core and the 4 lb memory foam are below what I would recommend, and unfortunately you’re finding out that the durability is shorter with your BMI and this combination of materials.

The materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more “insulating” and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material. Your current mattress has a total of 5" of memory foam, which being one of the least breathable of all foam types, and being less supportive and softer in comfort, and providing quite a bit of a “cradle” for you when you sleep, would certainly be very I insulating and potentially quite warm.

In very general terms, gel and/or other thermal conductive or phase change materials can have “some effect” on the sleeping temperature of a particular material but how much of an effect they will have and how long the effect will last will depend on the specific formulation of the material and on the “combined effect” of all the other materials and components of the sleeping system including your sheets, mattress protector, and bedding. Many thermal conductive or phase change materials tend to have a more temporary effect when you first go to sleep at night or over the first part of the night than they will over the entire course of the night. You can read more about phase change materials in post #9 here and at the end of post #4 here and you can read more about the various different types of gel foams in post #2 here.

It’s not really possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials … there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

I’m not familiar with Classic Bedding, and their web site doesn’t provide any meaningful information for me to make any comments about their products. Your best course of action would be to take a trip out and visit with them and find out what they might be able to custom build for you and the quality of componentry used in those products. The 368 unit they’re mentioning sounds like the Leggett and Platt Hinge-Flex, which is a very durable innerspring unit. The foam mentioned, as you surmised, is 1.8 lb polyfoam of a firmer 35 ILD. I don’t know if there is more foam in this mattress, as 1.25" isn’t much for a comfort layer of polyfoam. And yes, I would recommend 2.0 lb or higher for the poly foam. I’d also inquire about any return/customization options when you visited just in case you purchase there and it doesn’t turn out as well as you would have hoped.

The Brooklyn Bedding Best Mattress Ever contains durable materials, and is available in Soft, Medium or Firm. You’d want to phone them before placing an order to discuss your requirements and use their recommendation of the comfort level to choose, which I believe would be the Firm for your BMI. Brooklyn Bedding is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. They are extremely knowledgeable about latex and different configurations, and I would not hesitate to recommend them for your consideration. They also offer a 120 night trial.

The Best Mattress Ever is a good option if you want to try out a mattress that is an affordable latex option, using a polyfoam core instead of being entirely made of latex. Latex will generally be your most durable foam choice, so if you like the feel of it and it falls within your budget, it certainly would be worth your consideration.

It sounds like you’ve already been reading quite a bit on the site, but just in case you missed it, I would make sure you read the mattress shopping tutorial here. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

I hope that information helps you out. I think you’re already on the right track and have a general idea of the types of components you need to look for in your new mattress based upon your comments. I’ll look forward to learning about your progress and of course any other questions you might have.

Phoenix

Little bit of an update. After reading some positive info on here about the company, my wife and I visited the Jamestown Mattress store in Erie, PA. We felt welcome in the store, and the salesman seemed very knowledgeable and it was a pressure free environment. We really liked the feel of the Heavenly Cloud Firm model, but I do have some concerns about the construction of the mattress that I hope you might be able to help me clear up. Here is a description of the mattress:

Quilt – Top of Mattress
Paladin® Fire Retardant Barrier
2" Plush Polyurethane Foam
Stretch Circular Knit Fabric

Comfort – Padding Layer
Thick Polyester Pad
2" 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex

Back Support System
High Density Polyurethane Foam Encasement
6" 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex Core

I also understand that this is a tub type encasement, so there is a 2" thick layer of poly on the bottom of the mattress. I believe that the encasement is a 1.8lb very high ILD, something like 60, but I am going to verify this info with the manufacturer.

Would you be concerned about these materials with our weight? Here is my line of thinking, but I may be completely off base.

  1. I’m not too concerned about the super soft poly foam quilted in the cover as I think it fully compresses under my weight anyway, so I’m kind of thinking it really won’t make a difference if it breaks down.
  2. I like the extra edge support that the encasement offers, while I do see this as a potential weak spot as far as materials go, I think this is an area that isn’t really slept on for long durations, so I don’t know if it should be an area of concern or not.
  3. Probably what concerns me the most is the “floor” of the encasement that is 2" of polyfoam. Is this as much of a concern since there is still 8" of latex on top of it?
  4. This one may be cleared up when I talk to the manufacturer, but I’m thinking the 24-26ILD support core may be a bit on the soft side for us, so I may ask if a firmer latex can be substituted here. Does this sound appropriate for us?

This mattress is a bit outside of my comfort zone for price, but I’m willing to go that high for something that will work well and last quite a while.

Hi blaster668,

Thanks for the update. I’m glad you were able to visit a local store and had a nice visit at Jamestown Mattress.

I’d personally have the most concern about knowing what was in this layer, The uppermost layers of a mattress provide the most noticeable differences in comfort, and a lower density foam, especially for a higher BMI, will fail faster and result in a noticeable sag and not provide much comfort over time. With a higher BMI it is true you will compress the upper layers of any type of foam (even though all layers of a mattress work as a system and no one layer is compressed completely flat), so you’ll want something that is durable and will “come back” as time goes on.

1.5 lb plyfoam of a high ILD is common for an edge encasement, so 1.8 lb is even better. You are correct that you are not sleeping upon it. Just be sure to not use it as a chair.

I would have les concern about this than the potential of having lower density foam in the quilt panel of the mattress. This is at the very bottom of the mattress, and not being used as the support core (that would be the latex). Overall, yes, I would prefer at least 2.0 lb poly here.

That is a bit on the “lower” ILD side for what is generally used for a support core, that is true. Investigating a higher ILD core would certainly be something to consider.

Did you try out the Nature’s Cloud Firm mattress on your visit? That model had the higher ILD latex core and eliminates the polyfoam used in the Heavenly Cloud Firm.

Please keep us updated on your follow-up conversation/visit at Jamestown and any decisions you end up making.

Phoenix

I received some more info on the Heavenly Cloud firm model from Jim at Jamestown Mattress. The encasement is a tub type using 2" of 1.8lb 60ILD polyfoam. The quilted top cover uses 1.5" of 1.8lb 21ILD polyfoam. Because this is a higher end mattress in their lineup, they are willing to customize it with a 6" 34-36ILD core of latex rather than the standard 24-26ILD, and install a zipper in the top cover to allow for easy adjustments / changes down the road for no additional cost. I think my wife is already getting tired of all the research I am doing… and she would be more than content just buying this mattress.

I’m also interested in going with Jamestown’s “Create your own” Nature’s Cloud. They offer this with synthetic latex at a considerable cost savings, would you have any concerns with choosing synthetic over natural? This mattress uses 3 or 4 3" thick layers of Dunlop latex with Quilted top panel consists of two 1.8 lb. per linear yard layers of 100% Joma Wool. In between the layers of wool is a layer of Milliken’s inherent Paladin® Fire Barrier. Quilted bottom panel and border are quilted using one 1.8 lb. per linear layer of 100% Joma Wool. Does anything concern you with these materials? Would there be much if any benefit to going with the 13" mattress over the 10"?

Are these types of mattresses okay to use directly on a solid plywood platform, or should a foundation be used also?

Hi blaster668,

Thank you for the updates.

It certainly sounds as if they are doing their best to be accommodating with the zippered encasement for potential future customizations. The polyfoam edge system is quite firm at 60 ILD and they are using a good starting density (1.8 lb) of foam for this. My biggest concern would be a slight caution with the quilt foam for higher BMIs of 1.8 lb, where 2.0 lb or above would be preferable. While this foam is pre-compressed a bit by being quilted, which will help minimize impressioning, it is the uppermost layer which does receive the highest mechanical stresses.

Synthetic or blended Dunlop is usually the lowest cost version of latex (including some of the newer continuous pour synthetic or synthetic blend Dunlop latex materials which are also promising in terms of durability) but higher percentages of synthetic rubber in a blend will generally result in a lighter (less dense) and less elastic and resilient material that is a little less “supportive” (it has a lower compression modulus which is the rate that a material becomes firmer as you compress it more deeply) but they can make a good choice if budget considerations are the most important factor and all latex is a high quality and durable material compared to other types of foam. Continuous pour Dunlop can be found in softer versions than most of the molded Dunlop you will find. 100% NR Dunlop is next up in price and are the most popular choices for overall performance and “value” while organic Dunlop is the most expensive. Organic Dunlop is most popular with those where an organic certification is important for personal reasons regardless of whether there is any difference in the actual feel or performance between organic Dunlop and 100% natural Dunlop which is basically the same material without an organic certification.

In terms of safety … all the latex you are likely to encounter (whether it’s Dunlop or Talalay and made with natural rubber, synthetic rubber, or a blend of both) will have been tested for harmful substances or VOC’s by either Oeko-Tex or Eco-Institute and certified as being “safe” so safety wouldn’t be an issue for most people regarding any type or blend of latex (see post #2 here for more about certifications)

The most “popular” choices in terms of a combination of foam characteristics that most people seem to prefer in terms of performance and price (value) is Talalay in the comfort layers and either NR Dunlop or Talalay in the support layers although any type of latex can be used in any layer and some people (including my own daughter who prefers Dunlop in the comfort layers) have much different preferences than others so I would make sure you have tested both to see which one you prefer. Your own experience and preferences are always the most important factor in choosing between them. In some cases (depending on the many factors that play a role in durability ) latex mattresses with firmer layers can last over 20 years.

There is more about the differences between synthetic and natural latex in post #2 here. I would consider the choice of choosing synthetic one of cost, comfort, and personal preference of base componentry as opposed to a quality issue. The wool would also be a high quality material, which can provide a different level of comfort as well as assisting with maintaining a more neutral sleep temperature environment.

Mattress thickness is more a by-product of mattress design as opposed to a determinant of comfort, and there would be no reason that a comfortable mattress couldn’t be achieved in either thickness.

There’s more information about the proper foundation recommended for thee mattresses in the foundation thread here. If you’re placing your mattress upon a flat surface, you may wish to consider something like a coir bed rug underneath to help promote air circulation.

Phoenix