Mattress Nightmare, finally getting out of a pillowtop

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
10

Hi eric0668,

Thanks for the kind words :slight_smile:

[quote]But, that’s what I am doing to you now. “Tell me…tell me Go* DA**it”. Tell me which one is objectively the better mattress
Maybe assuming the types of foam we don’t know are worst case scenarios.

LOL. (If u did it would be like you told someone you would recommend here or here but they have to make the final decision, :). I would sign a waiver)[/quote]

I think that when a manufacturer or retailer isn’t able to tell you the quality/density of the materials inside a mattress that the only safe working assumption is that they are low quality and I would avoid them.

No matter how good a mattress may feel in a store … if it only last you for a few months or a year or two and doesn’t maintain its comfort and support for a long enough period of time to justify the price you paid for it it would have little value to you. On the other hand if a mattress uses great quality materials that will last you for a very long time but it isn’t a good match for you in terms of PPP and you can’t sleep on it then it would also have little value to you. Both of them are important in a mattress purchase.

Unfortunately I don’t know of any way to assess the quality of the materials in a mattress or identify any weak links that can lead to the early loss of comfort and support outside of a manufacturer or retailer providing you with the information you need. The only alternative would be to take each layer of the mattress and calculate its volume and weigh it to calculate its density which of course isn’t possible.

Outside of a manufacturer or retailer providing you with accurate information or actually weighing it … there really isn’t any way to guess at the quality of the materials based on “feel” because lower quality materials and higher quality materials can feel the same … but only for a little while until the lower quality materials begin to soften and break down.

Phoenix

11

Hi Phoenix. Good Tuesday to you

I feel a little clearer after sleeping on it. Less impulsive , manic etc. :slight_smile:

What I got now is to hope One of the loval places I contacted will be able to help. The other option to expand my choices is to go to Bedding Barn which is closer. And lastly I do what is recommended pick the 2 I like go home and compare. What I see now is that HR foam isn’t common but good and comes in a smaller layer …among other things

So it may come down to those 2

I have a question about my bed mentioned here somewhere. I have the IKEA Malm. It has slats and I believe they are 3" or less. U would know better as my heavy mattress is on it at home now. So I was wondering, I would like to keep whatever bed I get lower. Do I need to use the bunkie board I have or can I go without? (I was told for my tempurpedic a ways back that this was good for them (in fact I think in described the bed and showed them the construction of the full width of the frame at the head and bottom and they said that was very supportive) so I assume it would be good for most memory foam)?

But the main ? is do I need to use anything ?

12

Hi eric0688,

If your slats are 3" apart then they would be fine although it’s also important to have good center support to the floor and if the Malm doesn’t have it I would consider adding a center support leg under the center beam in the Malm because I believe it has a span that goes from heat to foot without any center support.

Phoenix

13

Phoenix, they are more than willing to get me the type and density of each layer of one of the mattresses, but the salesman, not as informed as the area manager that was helping, said that he was looking into the density, but the mattress rating has a 5.3 ILD

From searching and finding other examples, this would indicate a soft mattress, however this is not the case, it is medium to firm

Here is a pic of my Malm, with the center meta


l beam. That should be ok?

14

Hi eric0668,

I can see that the salesperson doesn’t seem to be that well informed. A mattress doesn’t have an ILD rating … only individual layers inside the mattress … and 5.3 would normally be the density of a memory foam layer not its ILD. With memory foam ILD doesn’t really mean much anyway and can be very misleading because the ILD of memory foam changes with temperature, humidity, and the length of time the memory foam is compressed.

Phoenix

15

I don’t know if you can sense that in my message but I sort of thought that was a ****

The guy is nice, but nice doesn’t work LOL I was being helped also by the area manager who knew more than he, I suspected. Not your level though

I got back to him and nicely insisted that I get the density of each level :slight_smile:

16

I want to thank you for all your help. I ordered a mattress today and while I wasnt able to put all, maybe not even many of the things learned here to practice, mainly due to budget, ibdo believe I am getting a better value. I found and tried the mattress in a store and ordered it online. A Simmons Curve
With an $800 budget I feel I did better getting a reputable company’s intro line, but the best of 3 within that, than I would have at a crazy retailer where I was going to choose between a Dormia owned company and a new company.

So thank you.

I am torn though
I have seen some foundation / slat posts but some of them are outdated with IKEA changing slats etc

I have a 2-3" bunkie board. I like it now. You could say this is similar to a low profile or no?

Well I would like to stay low. Even without the bunkie
I was thinking of using the Ikea slat. A salesperson said then warranty specifically says not to. But I read and it clearly says make sure space is not greater than 3". And if I read from you correctly latex matters most and if I have a firm base, I believe, don’t quote me, it does say firm and is polyfoam

With regard to which ones (if u support that choice) will the flexible ones make noise. Bouncing noise. If not I would get those. Someone said that it can help a firm mattress feel slightly not so firm. Another said in a 10.5" mattress it’s not going to be noticed just go with the bunkie board. But that’s not the only reason. You said airflow is better with slats right?
I could stick with the basic slats for the Malm I have but the distance there is the largest. Maybe greater than 3"?

You brilliant help. Or anyone’s…is appreciated.

I want to give myself the best conditions. The mattress the best conditions to keep a warranty. And the best conditions to stay cool with airflow etc

I hope you have been well the past couple of days.

Eric

17

Hi eric0668,

There is more about foundations that includes links to many options in the foundation post here.

A bunkie board is generally about 2" high and a low profile foundation is usually in the range of about 5" but other than that they would both work well as long as they met the warranty criteria for your mattress (and you can check with your retailer or with Simmons about this).

I would tend to use the foundation that is recommended by the manufacturer of your mattress or at the very least make sure that your support system (which is the bedframe and foundation/bunkie board) met the warranty criteria. You would probably be best to choose something like the Simmons Low Profile Foundation that is designed to work with your mattress and would have good airflow rather than a flexible box spring. Most good quality foundations (or box springs) shouldn’t make noise (although some lower quality versions can develop squeaking or creaking over time).

If you have a bunkie board or slats that have gaps in the range of 3" it should be fine as long as your bedframe also meets the warranty criteria and has good center support to the floor.

The airflow under the mattress really don’t affect cooling at the sleeping surface but is more to reduce the risk of moisture under the mattress and reduce the risk of mold, mildew, and dust mites.

Phoenix

18

WOW! :). You are full of knowledge

I hope you are patient …it seems you are. I don’t retain things well even if it’s immediately after i read something

Let me list this out for me mainly

I have:

-a Malm bed
-a 10.5" Simmons all foam mattress
-now i have the base wood slats in IKEA that “came with” or was recommended with them to start

They are recommending their solid foundation or a slatted system where the slats are actually no bigger than 2" (not 3 now that I reread)

I have a bunkie board covered in what appears to be beige breathable material (correct…I haven’t seen it in awhile)
And also does it not cover that thin frame of the board on only 5 sides. The bottom I don’t recall having any material

Now I have that over my slats in my bed with my dreaded pillow top on top.
Did I do that wrong. Should I have just put the board in the frame without the slats?

Now I can use the board (thinking out loud please correct me)
As that would fit into the recommended category. The Simmons one you showed me would fit also, as it is theirs, but no more so than the bunkie, correct

So with the slats. I am reading tbat the latex needs more support and slats closer together?? And the all foam needs support but not as much so the spacing can be a little bigger

So assume the IKEA slats are 2" which they are not (just asking in case I could find some because this would be the best way to get airflow, keeping out moisture, not necessarily making it cooler up top) then it would be fine to use these slats?

If that were the case, would the bounce in them make noise and be hard on the mattress? I am guessing not or IKEA wouldn’t sell them. The noise part while moving ?

And the flat ones may make it firmer or keep it the way it is.
And the flexible ones, would they possibly contribute to taking away some firmness?

Thanks again. You are a God/Goddess
Forgive me I restated a lot of the last question bit hopefully interjecting a few tidbits I read

So basically I want to use slats if you can’t tell. (I’ll just stop there lol )

Why are you up so late. You PST?

19

Hi eric0668,

You can see the Simmons warranty here. These are the criteria that your support system needs to meet.

It says that the bedframe needs to have adequate center support and your malm doesn’t appear to have any center support under the center beam so it may invalidate the warranty.

It also says that the mattress requires either a Simmons foundation or supportive non yielding rigid foundation (it doesn’t give specifics). If the mattress is used on a wood platform bed then it says that the gaps need to be 2" or less apart.

It appears to me that both your bed and your slat system may not meet the warranty criteria.

I’m usually up very late (the hours involved in running this site are long) and yes I’m on PST.

Phoenix

20

Hi Phoenix. Thank You

Even though you don’t know me, You probably know me by now. all flustered that you just said my bed and slat system isn’t supportive enough for my mattress.

When in fact you were saying, my bed and slats (together) aren’t supportive enough to go the “slat way” alone

You were not saying my bed AND slats are not supportive enough for use with a Bunkie, boxspring, foundation or any other type of solid foundation, without gaps that may or may not be the best choice of those 3 correct

With that said, I see a picture in the warranty with the picture of my bed, slats, and a metal beam going from top to bottom listed as the better support option. Not the good option, and not the best, but in the middle

Also it says in the middle, as well as in the end “what is not covered” is if you go with slats and their spacing is less than 2 inches

Were you answering all the questions I wanted, simply using different words than expected? in other words, the IKEA slats ARE NOT less than 2 inches.

I am tending to believe I got it correct and my jumping of a cliff as usual is premature LOL
I am also thinking that I COULD get different slats or go with those options above

You had said earlier in the post that what they recommend is best. Well they don’t per se recommend or even say that their base is best but simply supportive with no gaps, like the Bunkie , box or foundation correct

All of them are going to be the same? My Bunkie is going to be the same as a box (which would be last choice I assume) or foundation. I got the for use with the Tempurpedic Contour I had a few years ago

Thanks
Phoenix

Thanks for your help. dealing with people of all types. I want help so bad, but I have to resist going back to the answer right away, LOL so I can give my heart a rest so I don’t jump off the deep end reading into something so much

Go Seahawks right

Go Orioles

21

I also meant to ask, I was reading about the mattress prot. and while none will make you cool by virtue of the waterproof back, if I had my choices down to 2
which would be better materials polyester with a Under Armour like technology (bedliner with omniguar) or eucalyptus material with a similar type of ‘keep the moisture’ technology (Protect a Bed Luxury model).

22

Hi eric0668,

I was trying to help you assess how well your support system under the mattress matched the Simmons warranty criteria and how it may affect your warranty coverage.

Lets take this one step at a time.

  1. The Simmons warranty requires at least 1 leg to the floor under a steel center beam for a queen and two for a king. I don’t believe that the Malm has any center support under the center steel beam based on reading the assembly instructions.

  2. In addition to this … the Simmons warranty says that a slatted platform bed needs to have slats that are no more than 2" apart and I believe the slats you have are further apart than this.

  3. If you are using a separate foundation (vs putting the mattress directly on a slatted platform) then the Simmons warranty says that you will need either a Simmons foundation (either low or high profile) or a supportive, rigid, non yielding foundation. It doesn’t define this specifically but it would include the criteria they would be looking for in a high profile or low profile foundation or a bunkie board.

The Simmons warranty is written for all their mattresses which are mostly pocket coils. An “all foam” mattress would normally be fine with slats that are 3" apart as long as there is adequate center support to the floor underneath the foundation or bunkie board in “real life” terms but that’s not what the warranty says so if you were to have a warranty claim they could deny it because your frame and foundation/slats don’t meet the criteria.

I would either ask the retailer to find out specifically or email Simmons yourself describing your setup and ask them specifically whether your support system (bedframe, slats, and any foundation or bunkie board) would meet their warranty criteria for the mattress you have. They are the ones that can give you the authoritative answer that you need and clarify any of the grey areas of their warranty (such as how they define a “supportive, rigid, non yielding foundation”).

Phoenix

23

Am I missing something when I see a pic with my bed exactly with slats and a mid beam top to bottom they say is fine

And when I had a tempurpedic they said since I had support all the way across the bottom and forth across the top that was as good as having a center support foot.

Either way you are saying that I should be fine in a memory foam mattress if I want to chance it even with slats less than 3" but if something happened I’d be screwed.

? you are not saying that my bed overall is not supportive to use the mattress in any fashion, that I need to go to get a new bed, or become a carpenter and build a center leg. you are simply saying I need to use my bunkie board that I ended up using on my Tempurpedic. Or a Box or foundation

This is all about my ability to use the mattress with slats alone.

I am near a IKEA but not home now - do you know if the highest end slats are 3". They even look like they may be 2"

The mattress is firm, a 4 on the 1-10 scale so not ultra firm. If it were on those slats, do you know them, would it make the mattress softer (someone said with 10" I wouldnt be able to notice it) and do you know if the ‘bouncy’ ones would make noise.

I asked that awhile ago. I forgot my own question I got sidetracked in not understanding stuff lol

24

Hi eric0668,

Who is saying it is fine? The midbeam doesn’t have any support under it in the middle and the slats are farther apart than the warranty criteria so based on their warranty description it wouldn’t be fine.

If this came from Tempurpedic and you had it in writing then it would be fine (because the Tempurpedic warranty also specifies center support to the floor) … but your current mattress is a Simmons so they may have a different answer.

I don’t know your weight or have any direct experience with the Malm bedframe so I don’t know how much the center beam might sag either initially or over time. The distance between your slats would probably be fine in practical terms but if you were to have a warranty issue (which may happen because the density of the foam in the comfort layers of your mattress may be on the low side if you didn’t find out specifically what it was) then they could deny warranty coverage yes.

I’m saying I don’t have enough information to know for certain but that the support system you are using may be risky. The risk of sagging is higher with a bedframe that doesn’t have any center support under the midbeam but I can’t “quantify” the risk. The slats would probably be fine in practical terms but I don’t know about your bedframe. Using a solid bunkie board would increase the strength and decrease the likelihood of sagging caused by the bedframe so the risk would be less but there still wouldn’t be any center support to the floor under the midbeam.

If instead of a bunkie board you decide on a foundation to raise the height (not a box spring which flexes) then you would need to find out how they define “supportive, rigid, non yielding foundation” because they don’t specify the specifics for a suitable foundation. Once again a slatted foundation would likely be fine in real life (if it was on a suitable bedframe that didn’t sag) but they don’t define “suitable”. The only thing you can know for certain without asking them directly is that their own foundation would be “suitable” as long as it was also on a suitable bedframe.

I don’t know the distance between the Lade slats but if they are each 2.5" wide and there are 15 slats then the width of the gaps would be a little under 3".

I also don’t know the distance between the higher end slats but they are also flexible and not “rigid” and the distance between the slats appears to be less and would probably be 2" or less.

In practical terms they would probably also be fine although they may be firmer in the center where they don’t flex (and once again you would be using them on a bedframe that didn’t have center support) but they don’t match the warranty criteria because they flex.

The effect of flexible slats will depend on your weight and on the thickness and specifics of your mattress. The Laxeby can also be adjusted in different “zones”. Some people may feel a difference and some may not with a 10" mattress. I don’t believe they would be noisy.

Phoenix

25

I’m getting there. :slight_smile:

No one said that it was fine directly. They looked at the bed in IKEA and said with the midbeam it would be fine based on the picture. Which I am still confused about. You have mentioned a lot but not commented on that picture where it says it is fine with the beam and has no leg support in the middle. In fact not fine, but one level up

Regardless of that answer, if j
I understand correctly “to you” or “as you understand” and you know more than I , the bed itself is TECHNICALLY not good enough. I guess I just have to spell it out for myself and understand it but understand that you are not saying get a new bed, or even put a center support under the beam in just that it won’t suffice. Not even with their foundation, a box spring etc. Correct I am assuming all the same with the bunkie board very solid, theirs and any random one idk about.

Can you please comment on that picture where I see that the beam is OK. And the mattress protector if time permits. The 2 choices I gave

I can only ask… And when done as my friends and I joke about a joke job I have. Punch out from your job with me…which appears to be more like a full time job. :slight_smile:

Thank you immensely

26

Hi eric0668,

I’m not clear what you’re asking me that I haven’t already answered :dry:

Which picture do you mean? If you mean the picture you attached then it (and the instruction video at Ikea) doesn’t show any center support under the midbeam.

Post #89 here has more information about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors that can help you choose the one that is best for you.

Phoenix

27

Thanks Phoenix. Really. I guess I am reading the warranty different. I am trying to upload a pic on my cell but can’t. In the middle pic it says acceptable support for a queen, split queue., and King. Has a horizontal beam where you MUST have the middle leg. And the vertical one without which is fine.

Regardless I am probably going to use the bunkie board so no sense in my frustration in understanding the warranty affecting you.

Now as far as the protector post goes I was glad to see the protect a bed there as being good. I ordered the Luxury. One of, if not the best. How does that differ from the elite. I have never seen the elite. The Luxury I have…I have the pillow protectors. They are very sheet like. .much thinber than the basic terry cloth.

Thank you again. You neednt worry about getting thru my hard head if I am still not seeing something u see.

Enjoy the rest of your night. Are you watching any Olympics?

28

Hi eric0668,

Some browsers seem to have issues with forum attachments but you can email me the picture at the contact address at the top of the page and I can attach it for you if you’d like.

I don’t know which picture you are looking at but all the options that I see in the warranty card (queen or king) whether they are a metal bedframe or a wooden bedframe require center support to the floor. This is the normal standard in the industry.

The Elite has cotton terry on both sides of the membrane (so it can be used on either side) which would protect the waterproof/semi breathable membrane more effectively and the Luxury uses a Eucalyptus viscose fabric which is smoother than cotton and wicks moisture a little better but the fiber is only on one side of the membrane.

I haven’t been watching them live but I’ve been reading the updates and highlights.

Phoenix

29

Here is the pic from the warranty. A screenshot, because it is in PDF so you can’t exactly save an image easily

My bed has the support in the top middle (Superior Support) better than Acceptable, but not as good as Premium

As I said, I’m probably going to use the Bunkie board anyway. Just to be safe

Unless I decide to get the platform type bed I wanted. The Malm is not a true platform bed having slats and sitting a couple inches into the frame.

The other pic is one example of a bed I am looking at. Very simple. Now with the part under the bed fully covered, and the makers saying a boxspring is not needed, would that be acceptable? This is the link.

http://www.southshorecentral.com/South-Shore-Furniture-Maddox-Full-Queen-Platform-Bed-in-Solid-Black-3107217.htm

450×800 139 KB

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