Mattress on a budget--> feedback needed ASAP

[phoenix]

Hi nocmclean,

I will make one final store visit tomorrow to Ideal Mattresses (as I work in Missisauga) as I have heard some sterling things about these guys and they are mentioned on this site. But I plan to pull the trigger soon, so if anyone can enlighten me, or provide some guidance please go ahead. I think I have some good options–maybe no ideal options, but i am sure I will be satisfied with my final choice. After all the effort I have put in, I better be satisfied. haha. Please share any thoughts to guide me to making the best choice.

I’m assuming that you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

I would keep in mind that the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial)or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” regardless of whether anyone else has the same criteria or would make the same choice.

While I can’t speak to how a mattress will feel for someone else … I can certainly make some comments about the quality or durability of the materials inside it.

[quote]1) Dreamstar Natural Escape Plush: This is a Latex Hybrid bed with fairly strong specs. Quilted wool cover under 1". 1"“natural” memory gel foam, over 3" zoned Talalay latex at 30ILD, over a 6 inch polyfoam core (soy based) 1.8lb, over a semi flex foundation. I slept on the firmer version which has an extra inch of latex and no gel, and a firmer core, and it was too firm for me, and weirdly felt hot. Specs sound good, all natural apparently, but i have some concerns.
Cons: The mattress felt fairly comfortable, I am not a huge fan of gel (apparently it can be removed and replaced with more latex) but it did seem to help soften the mattress a little. The big question mark I have is that they only carry one grade of latex at 30 ILD. So the base support foam is changed to alter the firmness of the mattress. Just intuitively this seems wrong–in any structure the firmest level should be the base–it seems a strange way to change the comfort feel of a mattress. I know from early testing that I like the feel of soft on firm–this almost seems like firmer on soft–and I worry that the mattress will sag if firmness of the support layers is altered. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Plus why would they need a coil base-- no other foam hybrid mattresses seem to have coil frame bases.[/quote]

There are no lower quality materials or weak links in this mattress. Regardless of the thickness or firmness of any of the comfort or support layers … the only way to know whether any mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience. If your careful testing indicates that the mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of PPP then knowing the firmness of any of the individual layers (whether they are comfort or support layers) really doesn’t make any difference.

As long as you aren’t in an unusually high weight range and the mattress isn’t “on the edge” of being too soft for you (see post #2 here), the density of the base layer meets the minimum guidelines here so I wouldn’t have concerns about premature softening or sagging.

2) Brooklyn Bedding: So I considered online options from the beginning. I cannot test these in stores but they do have a 120 return guarantee. Unfortunately shipping charges apply co Canadians, but even so, value for product seems good. THere are two layers of latex above a firm core, and the comfort layer is 4". For the price, even with shipping, I think it is a good value and still within budget. Shipping is annoying and they only have a C+ with the better business bureau, based on one unresolved complaint. I like the layered–soft, med, firm feel, but I have been advised to go for a medium–I am 170 lbs backsleeper. Everything is ECo certified-- and this is certainly a pretty convenient option. My question is whether the uniform medium works for me–I like a soft comfort layer on medium support and firm foundation-- this seems more like medium on medium.

They are not a member of the BBB so they may not even know about the complaint but their C+ BBB rating is based on a single complaint which is rather frivolous since the complainent is saying that they didn’t know that the mattress they ordered wasn’t “all latex” when they are completely transparent about all the materials in their mattresses and they list all the materials and components in their descriptions. In other words I believe that the complaint is somewhat absurd.

Again … there are no lower quality materials or weak links in this mattress and it would be suitable for any weight range.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

3) Nestbedding Love Bed: very similar specs to Brookly Bedding–this has 3" of convoluted latex over a 7" core, with a 1" memory foam/wool topper. Seems like a good bed, gets glowing reviews from Sleepopolis and Sleepsherpa, and is mostly natural, non gassy. Company has a great reputation, and an A+ rating on from BBB, and is a member of the BBB and this site. They also give you a free teddy bear for buying the bed. Only downside is not as much of a comfort layer as Brooklyn. Again shipping to Canada is extra, and there are charges for disposal if you choose not to keep the bed. There is no option for layered thickness–though the quilted cover and foam might provide a bit of a softer comfort feel.

While other people’s comments or reviews about the knowledge, service, and guidance of a particular business can certainly be helpful … I would generally avoid using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (see post #13 here). You can see some additional comments about these types of review sites (which are just a type of marketing) in post #1 here of the simplified choice topic here and in this topic as well.

4) Novosbed: one of my original thoughts before reading this forum. Their beds are similar in spec to Tempurpedics, and I found some Tempurs to be reasonably comfortable. They use 5lb density polyurethane and 1.8lb base polyfoam in all their beds. If I choose this option, shipping is free, and they offer cheap slat foundations to go with their beds. Everything is certipur approved. ALso nice to support a Canadian company. And they are accreddited by the BBB, and have an A+ rating. Still I prefer the feeling of layered latex to pure memory foam.

They would also make a good quality/value choice for those that prefer memory foam mattresses and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in their mattresses either.

NOTE ADDED JAN, 2016: They have now introduced their new simplified choice mattress which has replaced their previous models and have also become a member of this site.

5) Foamite: I visited this manufacturer in Toronto as one of my first visits. Again it was mostly out of my price range, and i found service to be a bit indifferent. based on my stats I filled online–they gave me an “ergo” number-- basically ILD, of 26 and showed me a bunch of products I could try. They claim everything is natural. I did try a “Koosh” bio gel bed–two sided, with a 2" Koosh firm core-- that was pretty comfy and just in my price range-- though I have never heard of this type of foam (maybe Kush- of which I have briefly heard–but cannot find any good info online as to it’s durability or suitability as a sleep surface.) They also offer a half Koosh/half latex bed–that is just under $2000–but it is only 6" with a 2" core (I have not seen that many two-sided beds–i understand they are probably better than 1 sided beds on the whole-- but is 2" of support really enough? And I tried a strata orthopedic bed–which is basically just a single piece of convoluted foam–in a medium firmness it felt quite good. Finally Foamite sells industrial surplus beds for between $500-900 CAD. These are basically 2 sided 8" “eco-cell” foam beds with 1" toppers on both sides. Phoenix, this basically means you are sleeping on the foam in the middle correct? The guy told me those beds will last 10 years, though I am a little skeptical. Still maybe I can get 3 years out of that sort of mattress? They do sell them to motels apparently. Most of Foamite stuff was too expensive, or with foams I am not familiar, though the “Koosh” foam is being used in chairs in Toronto’s biggest sports/concert stadium and in the airport-- so it cannot be totally uncomfortable. Other than unknown products, the big issue with Foamite is customer service. They get horrid reviews online, and i have heard some bad stories about indifference to customer complaints, which makes me really skeptical about purchasing from this company, even though they seem to have quality material. Plus they took days to respond to email follow ups, and were inconsistent about certain things. It states that delivery is free on the site, but in the store the guy said $175 for delivery. I can’t help but wonder what might happen if I do have a problem once I have paid them over $1000, so I think I will probably eliminate this option, unless someone can really speak up for these guys.

Koosh is just their name for polyfoam. There is also more about so called “soy foams” in post #2 here. It certainly isn’t a “natural” material. If you can find out the information listed here about all the layers and materials in any of their mattresses and post them on the forum then I’d certainly be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials and the mattress as a whole.

While I can certainly speak to the durability of the materials in a mattress … the only way to know whether any mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (regardless of the firmness or thickness of any of the layers) will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience.

Once you are down to a list of finalists and you are confident that they would all be a good match for you in terms of PPP (or you have good options after a purchase if you aren’t) and that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in any of them in terms of durability then you would be down to finalists that are comparing “good to good”. If there are no clear winners between them at this point (which is usually a good indication that you have done some very good research) then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely make a good quality/value choice and (post #2 here) can help you make a final choice based on your local testing or mattresses you have slept well on, your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about PPP and the suitability of each one, their prices, your preferences, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress or individual layers, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on “informed best judgement” based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. Sometimes a final choice may even come down to very minor differences or can sometimes just be a matter of “gut feel” or “educated best judgement”.

Phoenix