Mattress painfully firm, low budget... topper? or low priced matty from BB.

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi. I bought a bed 4 years ago, it wasn’t cheap, but i got it wayyyyy too firm. Ouch. It’s very uncomfortable to sleep on (i bought an extra firm b/c everything else in the store felt quite soft and i felt i was sinking right into the center middle of the bed). Mistake. Ok, so now i can’t take it anymore, i mean, every night sucks…I need to get a new matty. But unfortunately my budget is quite limited at the time being. I think my finances will be better in 3 years but i can’t wait that long. I got a couple of cheap toppers from overstock a few months after i got my mattress, they barely cushion the pain. I am 5’2", 115lbs. Even just lying on my bed now typing this is painful.

I’ve looked around a little and am looking at the 10" ultimate dreams on amz, it has the 3" of latex of course, for $500, i could put that on my credit card and be okay to pay it off over time. But i was wondering, could i just go with the 3" latex topper for $299 on BB’s site and then buy a foam mattress from them in a few years when i get back on my feet? (or i would just pass down the latex topper to my brother and get a nice and complete bed from them. I’m wondering if the topper would be enough for now. Or would that just not do enough and I just go for the Ultimate Dream matty? 3" seems little once a body is put onto it, esp if sleeping on their side. like putting it on a carpeted floor probably wouldn’t help, although my matty is prolly slightly softer than a carpeted floor because it does actually have springs in it. :stuck_out_tongue:

(oh, i don’t even know anymore if i’m a side or back sleeper, b/c this bed just has me moving in all sorts of ways just to get a less painful night’s sleep).

Any advice appreciated.

Oh, i also have this topper cover, so maybe i could order a latex topper somewhere sans cover might work too…Bed Bath & Beyond | The Best Deals Online: Furniture, Bedding, Rugs, Kitchen Essentials & Moree
(inside it now i have my 1" latex and 2" foam, useless though).

2

Hi paisley,

Actually I don’t think this was nearly as big a mistake as buying a mattress that was too soft would have been. It’s relatively simple and inexpensive to add to the comfort and pressure relief of a mattress that is too firm in the comfort layers by adding a topper but it’s really not possible to effectively “fix” a mattress that is or has become too soft because you would have to cut it open and remove the layers that are either too soft or have softened and degraded prematurely because a topper will just follow the soft spots on a mattress.

If your mattress still has a firm and even surface and hasn’t developed any soft spots and you are looking to add more pressure relief to the mattress, then it would make a good base for a topper. This also has the advantage of adding to the durability of the mattress comfort layers below it (which are the weak link of most mattresses) and it’s much easier and less costly to replace a topper than it is a whole mattress when the top layer (the topper) wears out sooner than the other layers in your mattress.

The choice of the best topper would depend on what was already in your mattress comfort layers (all mattresses will already have some softer comfort layers), your body type (lighter people need softer and possibly thinner toppers) and sleeping style (side sleeping needs thicker comfort layers than back or stomach sleeping), and which materials you were familiar with and preferred (polyfoam, latex, memory foam, wool are a few examples) but the topper guidelines in post #2 here and some local testing on different materials so you know which you prefer along with conversations with manufacturers like Brooklyn Bedding will all help you decide which is the best choice for you.

Again … because you are lighter than average … softer toppers will generally be more effective for you than someone that was heavier where a firmer topper would feel softer because they will compress it more with their higher weight.

Another advantage of buying a topper from a source like Brookyn Bedding or other manufacturers that sell component beds where you choose your own layers is that if down the road you choose to buy a mattress that includes a layer that is the same thickness and softness as your topper … many of them will let you use the topper instead of one of the layers of an equivalent thickness which will reduce the cost of the mattress.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix

3

That is great news. yes, still a firm and even surface, no dips or softspots. and from something i see similar online it looks as if my bed is:

Mattress height: 13.5"
top layer: (2) 3/4" layers of resilient quality foam quilted in a small pattern.
Comfort layers (phhft): 2" layer of extra firm support foam; 2" layer of comfort foam.

and if that isn’t exactly mine, it’s something very close to that.

Great, thanks so much i will start my research the right toppers. Phew. Hopefully relief is in my future. : )

4

Hi paisley,

The specs you provided don’t say anything about the firmness or the quality of the foam they use but I would go by the more subjective guidelines that are based on your actual experience anyway because different people have a very different definition of soft and firm. Your mattress has a fair bit (5.5") of polyfoam in it so a topper will also help to extend its life although lighter people tend to be less easier on a mattress because they tend to put less stress on the materials than heavier people.

Phoenix

5

I’m not too worried about longevity, cuz whatever happens to this one, i won’t be heartbroken if i have to get a new one, i just want it to hold out til i can afford a wonderful one. But i can tell When i bought it at macy’s it was the 2nd firmest bed in the store, it felt like…well, laying on a floor, so i thought it was good. fail. For the 10 mins i was laying on it at the store it actually DID feel good. But after sleeping on it, my circulation started getting cut off. I kept it because i thought, oh, i’m just getting used to it. bleh. I can tell you that every time 2 people i know come over they say “can i lie on your bed, my back hurts”. lol. It’s listed as an extrafirm, which i can tell you, suits it. i’m sure there are a small minority of people who can handle it, and even like it, it’s just very very firm.

sometimes i have to lift my body parts off the bed (with my hands), or turn my body and let my legs follow me, it’s so painful they fall asleep or something. It’s so bad…not buzzy, but painful and hard to move them… so hopefully that describes the actual bed, and not just my interpretation. I hate soft beds, detest them. The matty i had come off before buying this one was 6 year old wool/cotton futon, it was dense but…comfy. (I really liked it but decided to replace it for some dumb reason) I certainly didn’t sink in, but it was never painful to sleep on, when i came from that matty, that’s why i chose this extrafirm in the first place, everything in the store felt so darn soft and sinky compared to it.

So with that said, I just looked up my overstock order from a few years back to see what topper i got and i got this one…and while it makes the bed sleepable, as in, my circulation doesn’t cut off as quckly (and no, i don’t have any other physical issues that make my circ cut off, it’s only something i experience in this bed), it certainly doesn’t make it unpainful and not even close to pleasant.

I know this topper below that i bought a few years ago is not great, but it made so little difference, what is wrong about it that i should correct when i get my next topper? I did have better luck with it when there was no cover on it, but that just looked so bad. Either way, i don’t want to make the same error of whatever i did wrong with buying a topper.
http://www.overstock.com/Bedding-Bath/Comfort-Dreams-Ultra-Soft-3-inch-Queen-King-size-Memory-Foam-Mattress-Topper/3684135/product.html

(i just doubled the thing over on itself now, gonna sleep on it like this tonight, see how that goes. i tried it a few times but it’s hard to stay on the small width once it’s folded over)

6

Hi Paisley,

There’s really no way for someone else to really know what was “wrong” with it for you. For most people 3" of 4 lb memory foam would make a significant difference but it may have been too soft which allowed you to “go through” it enough that you were feeling the firmer layers in your mattress underneath it more than you preferred or it could have been the cover you were using that was interfering with the ability of your body heat to soften the memory foam and made it feel firmer. What type of cover were you using with it?

Perhaps a softer latex topper would be a better choice (you sleep “on” latex more than “in” latex compared to memory foam) but I would test some soft latex locally to make sure you are comfortable with how it feels. The Pure Latex Bliss mattresses use soft latex in the comfort layers (21 ILD in the new versions) which would give you a good sense of how soft latex feels in various thicknesses in combination with various firmness layers underneath it and they have 2" and 3" latex toppers that are softer yet (in the range of 14 - 15 ILD). Their retail finder lists some of the retail stores that carry them.

Phoenix

7

[quote=“Phoenix” post=18097]Hi Paisley,

There’s really no way for someone else to really know what was “wrong” with it for you. For most people 3" of 4 lb memory foam would make a significant difference but it may have been too soft which allowed you to “go through” it enough that you were feeling the firmer layers in your mattress underneath it more than you preferred or it could have been the cover you were using that was interfering with the ability of your body heat to soften the memory foam and made it feel firmer. What type of cover were you using with it?

Perhaps a softer latex topper would be a better choice (you sleep “on” latex more than “in” latex compared to memory foam) but I would test some soft latex locally to make sure you are comfortable with how it feels. The Pure Latex Bliss mattresses use soft latex in the comfort layers (21 ILD in the new versions) which would give you a good sense of how soft latex feels in various thicknesses in combination with various firmness layers underneath it and they have 2" and 3" latex toppers that are softer yet (in the range of 14 - 15 ILD). Their retail finder lists some of the retail stores that carry them.

Phoenix[/quote]

I thought maybe i had gotten the density or quality wrong, but yeah, how in the earth could it have helped others and not me is beyond me, i thought that too. It’s this cover. Bed Bath & Beyond | The Best Deals Online: Furniture, Bedding, Rugs, Kitchen Essentials & Moree
i tried both sides. I also have this in it (1" latex) on top of the foam.
Bed Bath & Beyond | The Best Deals Online: Furniture, Bedding, Rugs, Kitchen Essentials & Moree
It did make a difference though, i can sleep without waking up in massive pain, now it’s just pain and cumulative pain has caught up to me in a big way.

Desperate times desperate measures, i guess i’ll try sleeping with the cover off, it was better iirc that way.
I just folded my 3" foam over to double it, then folded my 1" latex (more like 3/4") over to double that, so at the moment i’m lying on 6" of 4lb density foam and 1.5" of latex, that should give me a good idea of something, right? Def. feels better. At very least it’ll give me the feeling of being as far away from my mattress as possible. :smiley:

There are 2 stores that even though they don’t sell the bliss, have latex beds, that are 2 miles from me, ABC and The Clean Bedroom. TCB is closed today, and they’re so close to each, i’ll go on monday when they’re both open.

What is the difference btwn these 3 latex toppers? I see the ILD differences but can’t spot what’s different about them otherwise.

Also, the frame i have now is a platform. would that be making any difference? Not slatted straight-up wood.

I also own this frame, i wonder if that might make any difference if i switched them out.
https://www.amazon.com/Handy-Living-32F-FULL-Frame-Spring/dp/B001GQBSOO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2Y089HAZ3UH6C&coliid=I3QSE41CRARK7H

https://post.craigslist.org/imagepreview/m/3E43F93Nf5I75L25G2d4l8f3d2ed9473f1e79.jpg

8

Hi paisley,

The cover is probably at least part of the explanation …

As you can see it has fairly thick polyester clusters that would separate you from the memory foam and change the way it responds to body temperature and pressure and make it firmer. A thin stretchy cover that will keep you directly on the memory foam would probably do better for you and let you sink into the memory foam more.

6’’ of memory foam would be very risky (memory foam continues to get softer over the course of the night and this could lead to trading your pressure issues for alignment issues). The latex topper would be well worth trying folded over into a 2" layer without the memory foam although it may be a little on the thin side and you may do better with closer to 3". It’s Dunlop and probably synthetic so it would likely be a little firmer than soft talalay although they don’t provide any density or ILD information so it’s not really possible to know for sure.

This would be helpful to get a sense of the overall feel of latex (beyond just the convoluted topper you have tried). I would also try to find out the type and firmness or density of the latex you are testing and to get a sense of the firmness of the mattress or layers under the topper because all of this will make a difference in how a topper feels and performs for you. the closer the underlying mattress is to yours the closer you will have a sense of how the topper will work on your mattress.

The first one is natural Dunlop, the second one is natural Talalay, and the third one is blended Talalay. In other words they are all different types of latex. You can read more in this article and in post #6 here.

Some vendors also have allow returns or exchanges so you can exchange for a different firmness level if your first choice isn’t the best one for you.

No … one firm non flexing base or foundation will feel the same as a different type that is also firm and non flexing.

This one looks more flexible on the surface so it may make some difference. Thicker mattresses and lighter weights would notice less effect and thinner mattresses and heavier weights would notice more of an effect so it’s probably worth a try to see if it makes a difference for you.

Phoenix

9

Paisley, I was struck by this sentence:[quote]
sometimes i have to lift my body parts off the bed (with my hands), or turn my body and let my legs follow me, it’s so painful they fall asleep or something.
[/quote]

Some people sink into memory foam and have trouble moving out of the impression. Is that what you are describing? If so, latex would be a very different experience, as it is resilient. Lew

10

Thanks so much. (with the cover i actually used the non filler side of it, just thin cotton. didn’t really help, i ended up feeling better with that filled side, but yeah, there was no body heat to foam. And without even the thin cotton it was better. so, booo to that.

k, i’ll skip the foam tonight, but my body does seem to go straight through to the matty, but i’ll give it a shot.

thanks for the links to the dif latex, i’ll look into it, i know i’m not into the dunlop cuz i want a little bounce and that has less.

K, i’ll give my metal frame a chance, in a few days when i have the will to try get it set up. won’t be an easy task. ah heck, i’ll prolly injure myself in the process. lol.

thanks so much.

11

Some people sink into memory foam and have trouble moving out of the impression. Is that what you are describing? If so, latex would be a very different experience, as it is resilient. Lew[/quote]

no. i’m unable to move them with the actual parts themslves, lol, i think the circulation is being cut off or soemthing, so i have to pick them up with my hands. or i have to move the upper body to drag the lower limbs. how &^%-ed up is that. lol.

12

Hi paisley,

Body parts falling asleep are usually an indication of too much pressure and poor circulation and nerve function in that area as well as “downstream” from the area.

It certainly seems to me that some additional pressure relief is a necessity for you and perhaps in the range of “a fair bit to a lot” may be most appropriate given your “symptoms”.

Phoenix

13

yeah. Could 3" latex do that for me? i’m just thinking if my 3" foam plus 1" latex can’t keep me from having to manually move my limbs out of place i’m a little nervous that 3" of latex would be much better. wondering if i won’t just end up where i am right now with my 3" foam. I know my foam is medium firm, but my more like 3/4" latex doubled over to 1.5", no matter what the ild, is a joke. it’s squishes down to a half an inch with very little pressure. i know it’s only half of three but if the 3 foam just barely gets me to sleep and keep my circulation from being cut off…ya know?

And either way, with my needing more pressure relief, would i be looking at more soft of a latex, or a firmer latex? If i go soft i can’t imagine i won’t be feeling the build of this mattress underneath me…and if i go firm latex, well. then i’m firm on extra firm, but i don’t know how it works anyway as far as pressure relief.

i know you can’t tell for sure, but i just have no idea which direction i’m supposed to go in in terms of soft latex and how much of it could alleviate the problem.

14

Hi paisley,

Based on “averages” certainly yes but each person may have a very different experience on the same material based on their body type, sleeping style, preferences, sensitivities, physiology, age, health conditions etc and on the type of mattress it is used on so there is no way to know for sure outside of “averages” unless you have tested a particular combination for yourself.

In your case you are also quite light so I would tend towards the softer ILD’s that are mentioned in the topper guidelines (19 ILD may be more suitable for you “on average” for example than it would for someone that was heavier).

Again … your conversations with each manufacturer you are considering that can take into account as much information as possible about you, your experiences, and about your mattress as possible and their experience with the materials they sell will also be very helpful.

There is no way to be certain how any topper will feel in combination with your mattress for you specifically until you have tried it in person so you are really going by averages and trying to choose the topper with the best odds of success. The return policy of the source you buy from may also be important if being able to change your choice after your purchase is also important to you so I would ask about that as well when you are talking to them although it’s less common for a merchant to offer returns on toppers which like pillows are usually (but not always) considered to be personal items and non returnable.

Phoenix

15

Thanks again. Just to put my mind at ease, or a little more understanding, why would (or how could i guess) a 3" latex do for me what a 3" foam could come nowhere near close to easing the pressure needed for me?

(for the record, i am a very healthy person in her 30’s, my only physical ailment was a disk jutting out in my neck years ago, went to phys therapy, etc, so i just use flat pillows so as not to mess with my neck, i don’t have circulatory probs, don’t smoke, all that. i am an active strong healthy adult, flexible, nothing wrong with my bones, hips, back, etc, etc. I swear the mattress is very very hard. of course, i have no personal padding.

16

Hi paisley,

Health factors are just one of many variables between people that can play a role in how a topper feels. There are many others and each person has a different physiology and body type, body shape, weight distribution, percentage of fat and muscle, and different sensitivities even if all are healthy. What is too much pressure for one person in a certain sleeping position may be fine for another. This is why personal experience is the ultimate test because it “cuts through” all the variables and it either works reasonably well or very well or it doesn’t.

As you can see in post #9 here and in post #8 here, memory foam responds to many different variables including temperature (body temperature as well as room temperature), humidity, pressure, and time of compression and there are also dozens if not hundreds of different types of memory foam that can feel and respond differently even if the density is the same. Because of all of this … memory foam can be a more tricky choice and this is also why the knowledge of the person you buy from can play a role in your success because the ones that are more knowledgeable about the type of memory foam they sell and how it may compare to others and their overall level of knowledge and experience can help you make better choices with higher odds of success. In other words … while the 4 lb memory foam you tried didn’t work as well as you hoped … another type of 4 lb memory foam may work well for you even though in durability terms they would be similar. There are also other factors that can make a difference (such as the layers that are either over or under the memory foam) which you can see in post #2 here.

Latex on the other hand is a more resilient material that responds primarily to pressure and has less variables that change how it feels and responds and has a more consistent response between different manufacturers if you are comparing the same type of latex with the same ILD to another. This makes it a little easier to predict.and compare when you are dealing with latex compared to memory foam.

Phoenix

17

k. thanks. off to do more research.

18

Also, any opinion on wool toppers? i remember really liking the denseness of my futon, but my limbs and hips didn’t go numb against it. i wonder if that wouldn’t be an option.

http://www.surroundewe.com/products.asp?id=19&cat=Organic+Wool+Mattress+Toppers|Standard+4-5+inch+Topper

19

Hi paisley,

I personally like wool toppers and they can offer more point specific pressure point relief and great ventilation and temperature control as well along with good moisture resistance but they will tend to be firmer than a softer foam topper and they will get a little firmer yet as the wool compresses over time.

You can read more about wool toppers and some of the better options I’m aware of in post #3 here.

Phoenix

20

ooh, will do. thanks